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Can you prove with video thief is strong, not the pro streamer, but YOUR video?


lightstalker.1498

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@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:Tried thief a couple of times.Hated how everything was so incredibly easy, any mistake went unpunished (no matter how hard you kitten up, you can always just dodge away, or stealth away -and shadow rejuvenation will bring you back to 100%-, or teleport away, or steal+unblockable daze that bypasses stab at the last second, or blind at the last second).Didn't touch it again, I was disgusted. Not gonna touch it just to prove a point on the forum.

Let's play a different game: you try another class and then you come back here to tell us how it feels to play a game where people can actually punish you when you make a mistake, instead of having a hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons. Deal?

My experience is holo is good at resets.

You can chain defenses to get away enough to single out a thief on a shiro.

Weavers are good and dodging and running away.

Mirages, well mesmers in general are pretty hard to pin down.

I mean if we play full glass, zero defense on anything we probably cant run away.

Thief has one initiative pool, so after any "good" skill use they have maybe one more, and everything else goes "on cooldown".

The escape buttons lol.....

Just curious, what are the full hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons? (for thief)

Three dodges with a very long travelled distance+ half a dodge from the signet, teleport which acts as a double stunbreak and also a cleanse, some more evade on dagger storm, one more evade on the healing skill (that, or some 5-6s of stealth, your choice), then even more stealth if you're running d\p (I'm assuming you do) + unblockable blindness here and there 'cause why tf shouldn't we add some more defensive options to thief they don't have anything, + swipe being an unblockable instacast ranged CC that bypasses stab and with the traits has a fairly low recharge time as well.

Forgot anything?

INB4 you're talking about daredevil not core thief. Yes I am.

as I said like 100 times before its problem of D/P weapon set, other weapon sets doesn't have that huge impact

Man its obviously u dont like teef weapon kits that include pistols or I'm betting rifle, that's ok as everyone dislikes the playstyles of some kits.

Man , go play other weapon sets, then d/p then other again then d/p .After this manipulations look how bad you are and how op is d/p over other weapon sets. There no skill in spam blind from shadowshot and blackpowder , zero skill

I play all weapon sets and do well on all but d/d builds so.......playing other weapon sets other than d/p doesn't make me feel like I'm bad, that may be just a u issue. Maybe practice a bit more on other builds.waiting for better proofs instead of just words , because playing on bronze with other weapon sets for you is fine
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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (which they claim DO NOT exist) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a shit ton of damage too


Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute fucking pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter.

Do you think Mirage got more nerfs than thief? It didnt. Thief pretty much does nothing outside of being the most mobile, because they didnt touch that for the longest time. That just happens to be the only thing making thief good in PvP. In WvW thief has been trash for a while.

I remember people thinking Mirage was kitten after they nerfed, axe damage, super speed on MC, MC duration, vigor on MC. They reduced torch damage, they removed or reduced most sources for confusion because Mirage was "too bursty" Then they reduced clones one scepter and staff, changed cooldowns on blink, decoy, and others because it "had no counter". People thought surely that is all, mirage is trash now, but no it continued. they further reduced damage pretty much across the board for mesmer in pvp/wvw, they took away chronos self shatter, Mirages 2nd dodge, and then they nerfed mesmer a little more just before giving chrono back self shatter. Yea I think Mirage has had the most nerfs. impactful nerfs too. It has very few build options now and hey all have hard counters.

Sure, Mirage is worse, but it doesnt have more nerfs. No class does.

How many other classes you see running around on 1 dodge?

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (
which they claim
DO NOT
exist
) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (
which they claim
DO NOT
exist
) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the shit thief lets you do.

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (
which they claim
DO NOT
exist
) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but anything that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (
which they claim
DO NOT
exist
) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but
anything
that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Maybe because it requires you to be behind a target? And it costs initiative or a utility to gain stealth in the first place? And Backstab does 2k damage which is half of a Reaper auto attack? and it cane be blocked, blinded, negated in every single way like all other abilities that require absolutely no set up at all? And the incredibly short range? need i continue?

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"Terrorhuz.4695" said:Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Maybe because it requires you to be behind a target? and you get revealed if you fail? And it costs initiative or a utility to gain stealth in the first place? And Backstab does 2k damage which is half of a Reaper auto attack? and it cane be blocked, blinded, negated in every single way like all other abilities that require absolutely no set up at all? And the incredibly short range? need i continue?

"Behind" = 75% of the FOV. You don't get revealed if you fail. Steath costs ini, but shadow rejuvenation grants a lot of ini regeneration. Backstab doesn't deal 2k; I generically get hit for 5, which for a skill with 0 cost isn't exactly bad

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@"Terrorhuz.4695" said:You don't get revealed if you fail.

Havn't played thief in 2 years. I went and edited my comment to correct that.

But anyway, let me step back a bit because i attacked a strawman and failed to even focus on what's important about your comment.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap,

Firstly, this comment is just extremely biased and its no surprise i fell for this strawman cause it wasn't so obvious. Thief is not just "stealth into backstab for 15 minutes." I think if you actually fought good thieves, you'd realize how wrong of a statement this is. I honestly don't really know what to say to you because i think you just won't understand it. But Cluster2 was a thing, Predicting Steal is a thing, using mirage cloak icon as a way to always land steal is a thing (also landing steal in general on all classes is a thing) Clutch Impact Strikes were a thing...i mean i could go on and on about all the things on thief that take skill to pull off, and these are the non-obvious ones that exclude the more rudimentary things like not dying in mid from being sneezed on.

Anyway id put 300g's on it right now, I'd send you to the shadow realm on my necro if all you did was stealth into backstab.

like i told the other guy...go do that in ranked and see how far you get doing stealth+backstab spam and record a video for all of us to see.

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You guys wonder why everyone is leaving PvP, when you over nerf classes to the point it's not fun to play anymore, mixed with content drought and bad blanket changes. But you know keep nerfing everything, then complain about how the new E-specs are all super broken when they come out because everything is garbage. O-b

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (
which they claim
DO NOT
exist
) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but
anything
that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Maybe because it requires you to be behind a target? and you get revealed if you fail? And it costs initiative or a utility to gain stealth in the first place? And Backstab does 2k damage which is half of a Reaper auto attack? and it cane be blocked, blinded, negated in every single way like all other abilities that require absolutely no set up at all? And the incredibly short range? need i continue?

"Behind" = 75% of the FOV. You don't get revealed if you fail. Steath costs ini, but shadow rejuvenation grants a lot of ini regeneration. Backstab doesn't deal 2k; I generically get hit for 5, which for a skill with 0 cost isn't exactly bad

Oh boy. So much wrong here. Where to begin. "Behind" is just that. Behind. Its the 180 degrees on their back. Thats still something to keep in mind. "You don't get revealed if you fail", true, but you do get a 1 second cooldown which is a big problem. So big that it originally killed stealth attacks alltogether when it came out. "Steath costs ini, but shadow rejuvenation grants a lot of ini regeneration", no it really doesnt. It's essentially 1 initiative per attempt to stealth. It doesnt even come close to recovering the cost. And thats assuming the thief is using it. Backstab doesnt do 2k, but it also doesnt do 5k either. Usually it does 4k. Often times 3k. For a skill with 9 initiative cost (did you forget stealth isnt free) thats very little.

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@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (
which they claim
DO NOT
exist
) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but
anything
that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (
which they claim
DO NOT
exist
) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but
anything
that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

Yea I would agree. Ele arguably has allot more low risk options, and others too. I think you may miss understand, the point was that thief has ALLOT of reset potential. I never attempted to say thief is OP or that I wana see thief nerfs. So Im not sure what the point of your response is nor do I see any point in doing what your propose.

Again, the best thing all u thieves can do if you dont want more nerfs is to chill out and stop attacking people who make reasonable points about your class. If anything you are liable to point out the remaining strengths of your class, which from my experience leads to more nerfs. Just some friendly advice.

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@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (
which they claim
DO NOT
exist
) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but
anything
that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

So you concede that your original logic was in fact stupid, since you reduced an entire class down to one facet of it? That was the whole point.

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@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

So you concede that your original logic was in fact stupid, since you reduced an entire class down to
one
facet of it? That was the whole point.

he's purposefully manipulating the burden of proof from "provide thief video" to "provide Ele video" lmao.

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I'm no PvP expert, but I would like to offer a different take on this discussion.

Perhaps the reason for the controversy has to do with thief's design more so than its strength. In short, when fighting against a thief, a player is liable to feel as if they have little agency over the situation.

It fees good when you're able to execute an action, however difficult, and force your opponent into a disadvantageous position as a direct result of that action. When you're able to "force" mistakes out of your opponent, allowing you to kill them even in the scenario in which they play the fight well.

However, when fighting thief, it often ends up feeling one of two ways. Either:

  1. A thief can force mistakes out of you via skilled play, but you must wait for the thief to mess up. (thief has agency. non-thief does not)

or

  1. Neither of you can force a mistake out of the other, leading to an unrewarding and frustrating fight on both sides. (neither side has agency)

It leads to a feeling of powerlessness when fighting good thieves. You can't run from them because they're faster than you. You can't chase them because they have phenominal reset potential. You lack agency in this scenario, and you're forced to pray on the weaknesses of the human behind the class rather than the class itself. Hope they eventually grow impatient, sloppy, or careless and let you kill them.

Where contention lies is that thief could be all of these things, yet still be as weak as a kitten. Hence, thieves complaining that the class cannot possibly be overpowered."Lol imagine complaining about thief when backstabs hit for 2k" or "I can whail away at a Necro for 2 straight minutes and his healthbar doesn't move".

I'm curious to know how others feel about this. All of this is purely conjecture based on what I've heard as well as my own experience.

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Hey Kuma glad your trying to bring the conversation into a more civil realm.

Personally, I think people's frustrations come from #2 in your post. People can't engage or disengage from a thief on their terms. It's common knowledge because they have the best mobility. Balance patches have messed up things, and so classes that us-to be able to do damage to a thief can't anymore...and so we have harder to kill thieves with good mobility. The balance has basically dumbed down the game to make not just thief but all classes less risky to play.

Thing is that thief was screwed by the balance patch and massacred it's damage. Before the idea was that thief should be able to kill another thief...now thieves can't kill each other and can reset if they want cause damage isn't high enough.

The build's suck, nothing does anything of real consequence anymore basically. So ya someone can play DP backstab, but the most you will be doing is evading, running away and decapping and that's it, their damage is so low, and their tolerance for reset is so low that after hitting a target once or twice they already have to disengage a fight...it's really just a joke what happened to thief and the overall balance of the game.

That is my personal thoughts...nothing objective there.

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@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:

Hey Kuma glad your trying to bring the conversation into a more civil realm.

Personally, I think people's frustrations come from #2 in your post. People can't engage or disengage from a thief on their terms. It's common knowledge because they have the best mobility. Balance patches have messed up things, and so classes that us-to be able to do damage to a thief can't anymore...and so we have harder to kill thieves with good mobility. The balance has basically dumbed down the game to make not just thief but all classes less risky to play.

Thing is that thief was screwed by the balance patch and massacred it's damage. Before the idea was that thief should be able to kill another thief...now thieves can't kill each other and can reset if they want cause damage isn't high enough.

The build's suck, nothing does anything of real consequence anymore basically. So ya someone can play DP backstab, but the most you will be doing is evading, running away and decapping and that's it, their damage is so low, and their tolerance for reset is so low that after hitting a target once or twice they already have to disengage a fight...it's really just a joke what happened to thief and the overall balance of the game.

That is my personal thoughts...nothing objective there.

I reckon that might be a big cause for the disagreement. If thief can only afford to take 1 or 2 hits before it's forced to disengage, then that does not leave the opponent with much time to interact with the thief. You can expect the thief to attempt to avoid taking damage altogether by utilizing stealth, mobility, blinds, and evades, and by the time you've manged to deal some damage to them, they're already planning their grand exit.

At the same time, the thief is forced to undergo this elaborate dance in order to stay alive, all while doing chip damage to targets far more durable than they are. I don't think it's very fun for the thief to whack away at a necro with 20k hp and shroud watching him continue to survive off of little more than raw stats. It's like "I'm doing all this work, but for what?"

Bumping damage game wide would be a start. Aside from being a welcome change, it would make engagements with thieves more lethal on both sides

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Good god this chat is terrible. Here’s an opinion- thief is garbage teir rn. The feb patch made any thing but the stealth spam builds unplayable, and now that’s pigeoned holed by stealth + mobility nerfs and severely under performs. Get over it, thief was meta as a fing might as well since it can be all over at once and now it’s trash teir cuz it’s a dead all over at once now.

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@Math.5123 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player
clicking
their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (
which they claim
DO NOT
exist
) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but
anything
that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.yeah actually funny guy. D/P have endless unblock blind + cleanse after dodge because DD . Literally don't understand why d/p thiefs cry
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