Can you prove with video thief is strong, not the pro streamer, but YOUR video?

[UNOwen.7132]

@Math.5123 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player

clicking

their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

---

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (

which they claim

DO NOT

exist

) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

---

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but

anything

that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

It does. Thats not really a question either. Now of course, this is because survivability doesnt involve "avoiding every fight". If just not being in a fight counted for survivability, afk spawn mesmer would be the most survivable build in the game. But when it comes to staying in a fight, Necro completely blows theif out of the water.

[darren.1064]

@Math.5123 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player

clicking

their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

---

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (

which they claim

DO NOT

exist

) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

---

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but

anything

that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

You think the class with the biggest health pool + a second health pool doesn't have the highest survivability? Please hook me up with your plug.

[felix.2386]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Math.5123 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player

clicking

their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

---

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (

which they claim

DO NOT

exist

) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

---

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but

anything

that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

It does. Thats not really a question either. Now of course, this is because

survivability

doesnt involve "avoiding every fight". If just not being in a fight counted for survivability, afk spawn mesmer would be the most survivable build in the game. But when it comes to staying in a fight, Necro completely blows theif out of the water.

yea, except thief can be survivable while still contribute to the team/match.by either back capping, or stay for stealth decap(completely doubles enemy cap time), or literall simply being in stealth will disturb enemy rotation as you don't know where the fifth is, and you will be able to plus fights without knowing on top of steal's easy take down while maintaining minimum risk compared to any other builds

also you win game by not dieing while getting points, as long as you did the "not dieing" party, you already won half the match.most snowballed matches are snowballed by necro having very low mobility and get ganged and get snowballed.

[Math.5123]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Math.5123 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player

clicking

their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

---

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (

which they claim

DO NOT

exist

) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

---

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but

anything

that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

It does. Thats not really a question either. Now of course, this is because

survivability

doesnt involve "avoiding every fight". If just not being in a fight counted for survivability, afk spawn mesmer would be the most survivable build in the game. But when it comes to staying in a fight, Necro completely blows theif out of the water.

Anything that can disengage and re-engage at will is very survivable. A thief should never die in a game, unless they severely misplay.> @darren.1064 said:

@Math.5123 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player

clicking

their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

---

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (

which they claim

DO NOT

exist

) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

---

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but

anything

that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

You think the class with the biggest health pool + a second health pool doesn't have the highest survivability? Please hook me up with your plug.

Necro is basically the least survivable class in the game. It has very low mobility, even with wurm and walk. It has no blocks, no evade frames and very little in combat heal.

People that think hp = sustain just makes me question why i even bother.Water weaver is omega tanky, but it has the lowest health and armor class out of every class. But it survives because of it's insane evade uptime and resustain. Necro has neither.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@felix.2386 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Math.5123 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player

clicking

their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

---

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (

which they claim

DO NOT

exist

) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

---

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but

anything

that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

It does. Thats not really a question either. Now of course, this is because

survivability

doesnt involve "avoiding every fight". If just not being in a fight counted for survivability, afk spawn mesmer would be the most survivable build in the game. But when it comes to staying in a fight, Necro completely blows theif out of the water.

yea, except thief can be survivable while still contribute to the team/match.by either back capping, or stay for stealth decap(completely doubles enemy cap time), or literall simply being in stealth will disturb enemy rotation as you don't know where the fifth is, and you will be able to plus fights without knowing on top of steal's easy take down while maintaining minimum risk compared to any other builds

also you win game by not dieing while getting points, as long as you did the "not dieing" party, you already won half the match.most snowballed matches are snowballed by necro having very low mobility and get ganged and get snowballed.

actually true, many matches get decided by whos necro feeds the most

[ArthurDent.9538]

@darren.1064 said:

@Math.5123 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player

clicking

their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

---

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (

which they claim

DO NOT

exist

) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

---

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but

anything

that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

You think the class with the biggest health pool + a second health pool doesn't have the highest survivability? Please hook me up with your plug.

When we consider the lowest level of play where people don't know how to use defensive tools, sure Necro has more surviveability then thief. Every where else thief is more survivable because it's tools to avoid damage far exceed all other classes, only lacking a way to contest node without giving up it's near invincibility.

[KrHome.1920]

Is this discussion getting somewehere? Looks a bit like going round in circles.

Stating the obvious:

• Teef has no fight presence, because it trades it for mobility. Hit and run is class design. You can always escape but your pressure is limited. No one can escape from you. Two elite specs didn't change that, even though they could have, if anet was actually trying.
• Necro is the opposite. It trades mobility for fight presence. Facetanking damage while still being a threat is class design. You can never escape but your pressure is insane. Everyone can escape from you. Two elite specs didn't change that, even though they could have, if anet was actually trying.

All the other classes are somewhere in between.

But go on folks! I didn't want to interrupt you.

[Styros.8931]

@KrHome.1920 said:Is this discussion getting somewehere? Looks a bit like going round in circles.

Stating the obvious:

• Teef has no fight presence, because it trades it for mobility. Hit and run is class design.yeah , if you are trash tier thief

[UNOwen.7132]

@felix.2386 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Math.5123 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player

clicking

their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

---

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (

which they claim

DO NOT

exist

) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

---

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but

anything

that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

It does. Thats not really a question either. Now of course, this is because

survivability

doesnt involve "avoiding every fight". If just not being in a fight counted for survivability, afk spawn mesmer would be the most survivable build in the game. But when it comes to staying in a fight, Necro completely blows theif out of the water.

yea, except thief can be survivable while still contribute to the team/match.by either back capping, or stay for stealth decap(completely doubles enemy cap time), or literall simply being in stealth will disturb enemy rotation as you don't know where the fifth is, and you will be able to plus fights without knowing on top of steal's easy take down while maintaining minimum risk compared to any other builds

Thats not "being survivable". Thats avoiding the fights alltogether. Once again, by that logic afk spawn mesmer is the most survivable build in the game.

also you win game by not dieing while getting points, as long as you did the "not dieing" party, you already won half the match.most snowballed matches are snowballed by necro having very low mobility and get ganged and get snowballed.

Not really? Its usually just someone getting outnumbered and dying somewhere, and things spiraling out of control there. Usually that someone is a sidenoder. Which Necro is not.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Math.5123 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Math.5123 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player

clicking

their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

---

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (

which they claim

DO NOT

exist

) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

---

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but

anything

that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

It does. Thats not really a question either. Now of course, this is because

survivability

doesnt involve "avoiding every fight". If just not being in a fight counted for survivability, afk spawn mesmer would be the most survivable build in the game. But when it comes to staying in a fight, Necro completely blows theif out of the water.

Anything that can disengage and re-engage at will is very survivable. A thief should never die in a game, unless they severely misplay.> @darren.1064 said:

And a Mesmer afking at spawn will never die in a game. Are they the most survivable build? No, survivability is how well you can stay alive while in a fight. For that, thief is the single worst class. Its the same reason thief is the by far worst class in 2v2 and 3v3. Because in that gamemode, avoiding fights isnt an option. You need survivability. Survivability which the thief completely lacks.

@Math.5123 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@"lightstalker.1498" said:I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player

clicking

their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

---

various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (

which they claim

DO NOT

exist

) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too

---

Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but

anything

that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

how'd I do?

Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

You think the class with the biggest health pool + a second health pool doesn't have the highest survivability? Please hook me up with your plug.

Necro is basically the least survivable class in the game. It has very low mobility, even with wurm and walk. It has no blocks, no evade frames and very little in combat heal.

Ah yes, the class that has ludicrous healing and a second healthbar that they can quickly recharge, and is famous for having been a 1v2 machine in the 2v2 arenas is "the least survivable class". No theyre not. Sure, if they get ganked, theyre usually gonna be in trouble, but so is anyone who gets ganked.

People that think hp = sustain just makes me question why i even bother.

Its not the HP actually, its the healing and shroud that make necro survive quite well.

Water weaver is omega tanky, but it has the lowest health and armor class out of every class. But it survives because of it's insane evade uptime and resustain. Necro has neither.

Once again, Necro has nuts resustain. They dont have great active defenses, true, but thats not that important when you can just tank through everything.

[Yasai.3549]

@"Terrorhuz.4695" said:Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Yu also realise that the people who argue that "when the thief disengages, the thief lost" are usually non-thief players, or players who have played thief but isn't their main.Thief is just, straight up, a cowards' class, except it's to the point where they either exist in a state of either running away or executing a burst.

I've seen a duel between two thieves recently, and it's straight up the dumbest thing I've seen.I just see two people going into Stealth for 10s, then one guy appearing because they apparently "accidentally tapped" the other Thief with either Shadowshot or an Auto, and they proceed to randomly Auto the area for around 3 seconds, then go back into Stealth, then repeats for around 2minutes before one Thief randomly appears downed.

Like wow, is this skill or luck?

Edit : PS this is my official response to OP's original thread question ^How do I get a video of Thief being OP when I spend at least 80% of the fight seeing nothing and when I do see something, someone is just flailing about with Autos punching the air?

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@KrHome.1920 said:Is this discussion getting somewehere? Looks a bit like going round in circles.

Stating the obvious:

• Teef has no fight presence, because it trades it for mobility. Hit and run is class design. You can always escape but your pressure is limited. No one can escape from you. Two elite specs didn't change that, even though they could have, if anet was actually trying.
• Necro is the opposite. It trades mobility for fight presence. Facetanking damage while still being a threat is class design. You can never escape but your pressure is insane. Everyone can escape from you. Two elite specs didn't change that, even though they could have, if anet was actually trying.

All the other classes are somewhere in between.

But go on folks! I didn't want to interrupt you.

Yeah it isn't going well. The thread started with a relativistic accusation and it's just been a circle of everyone pointing fingers at each other. The argument isn't about whether thief is good or not, insomuch as it is about who has the right to make a claim either way. Which... is argument that can never be won, because it is all about feelings.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Oh, nobody can prove thief is overpowered or underpowered, yet somehow top players are still carrying?Guess it's balanced now.

Accept any interaction with thief, whether vs or using, will be annoying. Like Kuma said, they have agency priority. This agency to initiate is balanced by their lack of staying power in engagements, so only the good thieves will thrash you while the others should be repelled long enough for you to finish objectives.

@Yasai.3549 said:Thief is just, straight up, a cowards' class, except it's to the point where they either exist in a state of either running away or executing a burst.

I could say the same thing about any class that equips a sustain build and kites around to heal back up to full after whiffing their burst. This isn't a Thief-specific thing.

But, I'd think that would be the point. Thieves aren't objectively honorable, so their playstyle will probably revolve around dirty fighting if it is to be in keeping with the theme of what a thief is expected to be, which, you guessed it, involves:

@"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:feelings.

What matters is if the class balance is fair. We can RP about the relative morality of who plays what another time.

I would rather the forum be a mass of grumbling and vague gesturing when asked to prove whether a class is underpowered or overpowered. Thief mains will always want buffs, and Thief haters will always want nerfs. The middle ground is both groups being unhappy, with the former not being unhappy enough to quit, and the latter not being able to point to any specific thing as being overpowered without being easily challenged.

So either quit, or it's balanced. It still works at top level, so practice. People will scream about "balance should be determined by how class functions at top level" but get upset when it actually happens.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@"Terrorhuz.4695" said:Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Yu also realise that the people who argue that "when the thief disengages, the thief lost" are usually non-thief players, or players who have played thief but isn't their main.Thief is just, straight up, a cowards' class, except it's to the point where they either exist in a state of either running away or executing a burst.

I mean, depends on the context. In WvW? Yeah thats true. A Thief who disengages in WvW is a thief who has lost. In PvP? Thief isnt meant to be fighting anyone 1v1 anyway. You call it a cowards class, but more accurately, it a support class. One that explicitely supports by outnumbering.

I've seen a duel between two thieves recently, and it's straight up the dumbest thing I've seen.I just see two people going into Stealth for 10s, then one guy appearing because they apparently "accidentally tapped" the other Thief with either Shadowshot or an Auto, and they proceed to randomly Auto the area for around 3 seconds, then go back into Stealth, then repeats for around 2minutes before one Thief randomly appears downed.

... how did they hit someone in stealth with a shadowshot? Actually scratch that, why were they using shadowshot? And how did they "go into stealth for 10 seconds" when its trivially easy for one thief to prevent the other one from doing so? Also you know autos can be used to track enemies in stealth, so it wasnt as "random" as you thought?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@"UNOwen.7132" said:... how did they hit someone in stealth with a shadowshot? Actually scratch that, why were they using shadowshot? And how did they "go into stealth for 10 seconds" when its trivially easy for one thief to prevent the other one from doing so? Also you know autos can be used to track enemies in stealth, so it wasnt as "random" as you thought?

I don't think anyone will care about the intricacies of thief at the end of the day, and wouldn't expect someone who thinks the entirety of a thief ditto is "both stealthed for 2mins, one randomly downs" to know or care about what their skills do or why they're used when. You might be asking questions with no answers.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:... how did they hit someone in stealth with a shadowshot? Actually scratch that, why were they

using

shadowshot? And how did they "go into stealth for 10 seconds" when its trivially easy for one thief to prevent the other one from doing so? Also you know autos can be used to track enemies in stealth, so it wasnt as "random" as you thought?

I don't think anyone will care about the intricacies of thief at the end of the day, and wouldn't expect someone who thinks the entirety of a thief ditto is "both stealthed for 2mins, one randomly downs" to know or care about what their skills do or why they're used when. You might be asking questions with no answers.

Yeah that was more or less my point, the story was so ludicrous it wasnt even plausible. The standard thief mirror is just each of them lands one burst on the other one, realises neither of them will be able to kill the other one, and both of them just go elsewhere.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@"Terrorhuz.4695" said:Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Yu also realise that the people who argue that "when the thief disengages, the thief lost" are usually non-thief players, or players who have played thief but isn't their main.

It's curious, 'cause when I lose I get to bleed for some good 20 seconds, then I sit and rethink my actions for some other 15 seconds while I respawn, then I'm sent to waypoint, then I have to spend some more 15 seconds to reach my objective again and the enemy team gets 5 whole points from that, on top of whatever I was defending.

When a thief loses the guy dashes behind some cover (can't prevent that, daredevils ignore immobilize!), hides in stealth (with both ranged blind and unblockable AoE blind to cover this action :) ) and be back immediately, so I'm not sure what are we even talking about when we mention "losing" 'cause clearly we are using the same word for two very different concepts.

INB4 some random thief comes crying 'cause I'm a salty mirage and I can't understand the intricacies and depth of permastealth gameplay yaddayadda the lack of damage makes up for it even though there's a literal video in this thread of a pepega-tier thief dropping some 8k from stealth to a trailblazer mirage and insta-back to stealth yaddayadda I think a thief died once yesterday and it's very very unfair :(

[Bear.9568]

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Yu also realise that the people who argue that "when the thief disengages, the thief lost" are usually non-thief players, or players who have played thief but isn't their main.

It's curious, 'cause when

I

lose I get to bleed for some good 20 seconds, then I sit and rethink my actions for some other 15 seconds while I respawn, then I'm sent to waypoint, then I have to spend some more 15 seconds to reach my objective again and the enemy team gets 5 whole points from that, on top of whatever I was defending.

When

a thief

loses the guy dashes behind some cover (can't prevent that, daredevils ignore immobilize!), hides in stealth (with

both

ranged blind and unblockable AoE blind to cover this action :) ) and be back immediately, so I'm not sure what are we even talking about when we mention "losing" 'cause clearly we are using the same word for two very different concepts.

INB4

some random thief comes crying 'cause I'm a salty mirage and I can't understand the intricacies and depth of permastealth gameplay yaddayadda the lack of damage makes up for it even though there's a literal video in this thread of a pepega-tier thief dropping some 8k from stealth to a trailblazer mirage and insta-back to stealth yaddayadda I think a thief died once yesterday and it's very very unfair :(

This is actually hilarious. A mesmer complaining about a thief.

Hard to catch is on a 300s cd so when you stunlock a thief they either have to burn shadowstep, roi or H2C is on a 300s Cd. Seeing as mesmer has multiple access to daze/immob you really have no excuse for letting a thief get away since you have blink and can use magic bullet to lock a thief down. Combo this with illusionary leap/swap and thief is hurting.

The stealth thing is even funnier as mesmer has the prestige into phantasmal mage that interrupts. Oh, not to mention mesmer has "mass invis" . Combo this with signet of midnight and your invis long enough to either disengage or watch the thief reappear while you reset into the prestige. As a mesmer you also have decoy, desperate decoy and trait prismatic understanding then there's absolutely no reason a thief should be able to find you.

All these traits and skills are basically part of the meta condi build. You really have no excuse to lose to a thief as a mesmer as your condi application is superior to most builds.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:So either quit, or it's balanced. It still works at top level, so practice. People will scream about "balance should be determined by how class functions at top level" but get upset when it actually happens.

No they don't. To argue for top-level balancing they have to understand skill ceiling. Those are the people telling everyone else to "git gud" when something gets nerfed.

[Dantheman.3589]

@UNOwen.7132 said:You call it a cowards class, but more accurately, it a support class.

I’ve seen it all ???

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Bear.9568 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Yu also realise that the people who argue that "when the thief disengages, the thief lost" are usually non-thief players, or players who have played thief but isn't their main.

It's curious, 'cause when

I

lose I get to bleed for some good 20 seconds, then I sit and rethink my actions for some other 15 seconds while I respawn, then I'm sent to waypoint, then I have to spend some more 15 seconds to reach my objective again and the enemy team gets 5 whole points from that, on top of whatever I was defending.

When

a thief

loses the guy dashes behind some cover (can't prevent that, daredevils ignore immobilize!), hides in stealth (with

both

ranged blind and unblockable AoE blind to cover this action :) ) and be back immediately, so I'm not sure what are we even talking about when we mention "losing" 'cause clearly we are using the same word for two very different concepts.

INB4

some random thief comes crying 'cause I'm a salty mirage and I can't understand the intricacies and depth of permastealth gameplay yaddayadda the lack of damage makes up for it even though there's a literal video in this thread of a pepega-tier thief dropping some 8k from stealth to a trailblazer mirage and insta-back to stealth yaddayadda I think a thief died once yesterday and it's very very unfair :(

This is actually hilarious. A mesmer complaining about a thief.

Hard to catch is on a 300s cd so when you stunlock a thief they either have to burn shadowstep, roi or H2C is on a 300s Cd. Seeing as mesmer has multiple access to daze/immob you really have no excuse for letting a thief get away since you have blink and can use magic bullet to lock a thief down. Combo this with illusionary leap/swap and thief is hurting.

The stealth thing is even funnier as mesmer has the prestige into phantasmal mage that interrupts. Oh, not to mention mesmer has "mass invis" . Combo this with signet of midnight and your invis long enough to either disengage or watch the thief reappear while you reset into the prestige. As a mesmer you also have decoy, desperate decoy and trait prismatic understanding then there's absolutely no reason a thief should be able to find you.

All these traits and skills are basically part of the meta condi build. You really have no excuse to lose to a thief as a mesmer as your condi application is superior to most builds.

bro, post me this " meta " "decoy, desperate decoy ,prismatic understanding, SoM, mass invis " condi mesmer, I would love to see it

[Terrorhuz.4695]

@Bear.9568 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

Yu also realise that the people who argue that "when the thief disengages, the thief lost" are usually non-thief players, or players who have played thief but isn't their main.

It's curious, 'cause when

I

lose I get to bleed for some good 20 seconds, then I sit and rethink my actions for some other 15 seconds while I respawn, then I'm sent to waypoint, then I have to spend some more 15 seconds to reach my objective again and the enemy team gets 5 whole points from that, on top of whatever I was defending.

When

a thief

loses the guy dashes behind some cover (can't prevent that, daredevils ignore immobilize!), hides in stealth (with

both

ranged blind and unblockable AoE blind to cover this action :) ) and be back immediately, so I'm not sure what are we even talking about when we mention "losing" 'cause clearly we are using the same word for two very different concepts.

INB4

some random thief comes crying 'cause I'm a salty mirage and I can't understand the intricacies and depth of permastealth gameplay yaddayadda the lack of damage makes up for it even though there's a literal video in this thread of a pepega-tier thief dropping some 8k from stealth to a trailblazer mirage and insta-back to stealth yaddayadda I think a thief died once yesterday and it's very very unfair :(

This is actually hilarious. A mesmer complaining about a thief.

Hard to catch is on a 300s cd so when you stunlock a thief they either have to burn shadowstep, roi or H2C is on a 300s Cd. Seeing as mesmer has multiple access to daze/immob you really have no excuse for letting a thief get away since you have blink and can use magic bullet to lock a thief down. Combo this with illusionary leap/swap and thief is hurting.

The stealth thing is even funnier as mesmer has the prestige into phantasmal mage that interrupts. Oh, not to mention mesmer has "mass invis" . Combo this with signet of midnight and your invis long enough to either disengage or watch the thief reappear while you reset into the prestige. As a mesmer you also have decoy, desperate decoy and trait prismatic understanding then there's absolutely no reason a thief should be able to find you.

All these traits and skills are basically part of the meta condi build. You really have no excuse to lose to a thief as a mesmer as your condi application is superior to most builds.

Some things are true and some are not

• TRUE: as a mesmer if you use a lot of stealth you shouldn't die to a thief. You basically nope away whenever a thief comes to your general proximity. That's all you're allowed to do, however: you can get tfo when the thief looks at you, and that you can do fairly well (then, depending on how persistent the thief is, you may or may not be allowed to do something else somewhere else), engaging is a no-no on every build in general and condi in particular, since daredevils have some decent condi cleanse with dodges, healing skill, shadowstep return and signet.
• FALSE: Sword 3 against a daredevil? When did daredevils start giving a damn about immobilize?
• FALSE: Mesmer has one hard stun (magic bullet) on 25s cooldown; thief has 3 stunbreaks on 40-50s cooldown (blinding powder, shadowstep and return). As a mesmer you don't stunlock anyone in general and a thief in particular; you stun, the thief breaks out of it.
• HALF TRUE: the condi build you're mentioning isn't anywhere near meta, it's just a stealth gimmick built specifically to nope away with literally every stealth you could possibly get. I'm not saying it's balanced or unbalanced (a hard nerf to prismatic understanding wouldn't be bad if some other survival option was given), I'm saying if your only real option against thieves is to fucking hide 'cause they reset (and they DEAL damage; again, in this very thread we've seen a pepega thief jumping on a trailblazer guy and casually dealing 8k, every shadowshot is blind + some 4/5k damage) you are kind of proving my point.

The funniest thing ever though is mentioning torch5 as an interrupt tool, against thieves of all classes. I chuckled.

But then again, why are even talking about mesmer in a thief thread. Are we so dead we don't even deserve our own hate thread?

[Yasai.3549]

@"Terrorhuz.4695" said:

The funniest thing ever though is torch5 as an interrupt tool, against thieves of all classes. I chuckled.

Let's be real, the only thing the Torch 5 ever interrupts are someone who isn't moving.Phantasms are already pretty bad, and Torch 5 and Pistol 4 are the worst of the lot, having an arbituary "cast range" where they swag-walk to their target from a distance away.

[Tycura.1982]

@Sleepwalker.1398 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Moradorin.6217 said:You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter.

Do you think Mirage got more nerfs than thief? It didnt. Thief pretty much does nothing outside of being the most mobile, because they didnt touch that for the longest time. That just happens to be the only thing making thief good in PvP. In WvW thief has been trash for a while.

I remember people thinking Mirage was kitten after they nerfed, axe damage, super speed on MC, MC duration, vigor on MC. They reduced torch damage, they removed or reduced most sources for confusion because Mirage was "too bursty" Then they reduced clones one scepter and staff, changed cooldowns on blink, decoy, and others because it "had no counter". People thought surely that is all, mirage is trash now, but no it continued. they further reduced damage pretty much across the board for mesmer in pvp/wvw, they took away chronos self shatter, Mirages 2nd dodge, and then they nerfed mesmer a little more just before giving chrono back self shatter. Yea I think Mirage has had the most nerfs. impactful nerfs too. It has very few build options now and hey all have hard counters.

Sure, Mirage is worse, but it doesnt have more nerfs. No class does.

How many other classes you see running around on 1 dodge?

My class after I dodge once

[UNOwen.7132]

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:You call it a cowards class, but more accurately, it a support class.

I’ve seen it all ???

What, do you disagree with that definition? Because the style of thief has been considered a support class for a very long time. Thief cannot do much of anything on their own. Their goal is to empower their team, both directly through +1ing and creating outnumbered situations, but also by applying pressure around the map through rotation and the ever-present threat of decapping. Thats a support playstyle.