Jump to content
  • Sign Up

WvW Soul beast needs a giant nerf!


asterix.9614

Recommended Posts

@Swagger.1459 said:

@"ArchonWing.9480" said:Shrugs, if someone is trying that hard to win an internet argument, they could probably be like playing the game or something.

I have died because I was posting on these forums a few times lol

Anyhow, what kind of fallacy is it?
Maybe? I dunno. Think it's
Person A makes claim X.

Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X.Therefore, X is false.

But fallacy or not, it's pretty creepy.

I'm not going to pretend I don't contradict myself at times, I don't keep track of everything I say, and my opinions change. But taking things out of context and comparing apples to oranges is hardly an argument, especially when it's framed like an attack.

I'm flattered someone took the time to read through so much of my history though.

You can feel whatever you want, but we don't post on the forums for the players to decide what to code into the game. The devs read these forums and the information they are being given by players...

So let's talk contradicting comments and suggestions that a dev might have to look at and consider for future balance changes...

Posted on 12/24/2020

“This build is all about extreme aggression and oppressive damage, similar to Reaper. With various ways to CC, and a metric ton of Torment, this build will absolutely shred anything it touches, even those highly resistant to Conditions.”

“is very fun to use. I enjoy seeing 3, 4, or 5k Torment ticks on top of 2k Terrors, lol.”

“Thief and Rev are the only things I struggle against with this build. Everything else is an easy win if I play right.”

“Mostly though, I just enjoy watching people die in 0.5 seconds from my AOE vomit, lol. All it takes is one Fear or Torch 5 and they'll have so much on them they'll probably lose 50% of their health before they can even cleanse it.”

And 3 days later…

@Shroud.2307 said:Dolyak Stance is one of the biggest offenders.

33% damage reduction33% Condition damage reductionImmune to movement impairing Conditions6 stacks of StabilityStunbreak30 second recharge

This is practically an elite skill. It makes you
immune
to all form of CC, on top of giving a Protection effect that cannot be removed that also effects Conditions.Removing the 33% damage/Condition damage reduction, and changing it so that it only reduces
the duration of
movement impairing Conditions, would make this skill a lot less overloaded, but still strong.

Next, "Sic 'Em!" should apply
to the Ranger for 3 seconds after use.

And lastly, Smoke Scale's merged skill, Smoke Assault, needs
one of two changes;
Range reduced to 350, or give it a cast time.Right now it has
double
the range of Unrelenting Assault, no cast time, and can be enhanced with "Sic Em!" to deal nearly as much damage, on less than double the recharge.

These are targeted changes because this is how balancing should be done. These things will effect Soulbeast and Soulbeast only. Not Druid or core. They are things that have been over performing and overlooked for a long time, and the spec will not die with these changes.

You don’t have issues with ranger, as per your quote. Yet you have a bunch of “balancing” concerns for them… You brag that you can melt most professions in seconds with a couple button presses, and that’s just not limited to Necro… You dabbled in thief and… “ I made a Thief recently and have been having a lot of fun” and “I don't have a problem with these images so don't misinterpret this as a complaint”…So you “don’t have a problem” with 15K Shadow Shots, 8 - 10k Shadow Shots, 10 - 12k Heartseekers… and such, but let’s raise the red flags of “ balance” everywhere other than what you are using. Correct?

What do you think a dev reading would say to themselves when they read the forums and a player asks for a bunch of nerfs on one profession, yet happens to see that the same enjoys, and doesn’t see a problem with, their preferred professions killing other players with a couple of button presses? You tell me?

Think about a dev reading this…

“Dolyak Stance is one of the biggest offenders.33% damage reduction33% Condition damage reductionImmune to movement impairing Conditions6 stacks of StabilityStunbreak30 second rechargeThis is practically an elite skill. It makes you immune to all form of CC, on top of giving a Protection effect that cannot be removed that also effects Conditions.Removing the 33% damage/Condition damage reduction”

Meanwhile, 3 days earlier…

“This build is all about extreme aggression and oppressive damage, similar to Reaper. With various ways to CC, and a metric ton of Torment, this build will absolutely shred anything it touches, even those highly resistant to Conditions.”

“is very fun to use. I enjoy seeing 3, 4, or 5k Torment ticks on top of 2k Terrors, lol.”

“Thief and Rev are the only things I struggle against with this build. Everything else is an easy win if I play right.”

“Mostly though, I just enjoy watching people die in 0.5 seconds from my AOE vomit, lol. All it takes is one Fear or Torch 5 and they'll have so much on them they'll probably lose 50% of their health before they can even cleanse it.”

So..

You are pulling off.. “I enjoy seeing 3, 4, or 5k Torment ticks on top of 2k Terrors, lol.” and ““Mostly though, I just enjoy watching people die in 0.5 seconds from my AOE vomit, lol. All it takes is one Fear or Torch 5 and they'll have so much on them they'll probably lose 50% of their health before they can even cleanse it.”

But somehow you want to…

“Removing the 33% damage/Condition damage reduction” from Dolyak Stance even though you’d burn through it anyway because… “ this build will absolutely shred anything it touches, even those highly resistant to Conditions.” Correct?

Next…

You are pulling off... “I enjoy seeing 3, 4, or 5k Torment ticks on top of 2k Terrors, lol.” and “Mostly though, I just enjoy watching people die in 0.5 seconds from my AOE vomit, lol. All it takes is one Fear or Torch 5 and they'll have so much on them they'll probably lose 50% of their health before they can even cleanse it.”. You enjoy seeing 15k and 8-10k Shadow shots, and 10-12k heartseekers when “I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.”... and “I don't recall if I had extra Might on me, but the target definitely didn't have Vulnerability, I wasn't using Assassin's Signet and I didn't have 25 Bloodlust.”

But somehow…

You want the devs to impose “exhaustion” as a penalty for the temporary damage boost on another profession? “Next, "Sic 'Em!" should apply Exhaustion to the Ranger for 3 seconds after use.”

Damage for me, but not for thee. Right?

Btw, on a completely unrelated comment, that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it. Who runs without stunbreaks or cleanses, anyway?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 140
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Btw, on a completely unrelated comment, that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it. Who runs without stunbreaks or cleanses, anyway?

Spectral Walk is a stunbreak and Cleanse. Consume Conditions is a full cleanse. Sigil of Cleansing removes 3. Putrid Mark removes 3. Nefarious Favor removes 2 on a low cooldown.

And yes I agree it's bad. I share builds that I have fun with and that are good in their niche to hopefully inspire others to give it a try or to create ones of their own. I've shared lots of build threads in the past and almost every time I'll add a disclaimer that it isn't meta and will state its weaknesses so people know what they're getting themselves in to if they try it.

I never said it was good, just that it's good at some things. Anything can steamroll clueless PVErs so I don't think that's much of a statement.

I just want to remind people that not everyone who visits the forum are experienced veterans. There are a lot of people that read this and never comment. It is helpful to criticize things, but just saying "x thing is bad" is not. This is why we have a community of players that have 0 creativity. Because any time they experiment with something they're met with insults rather than criticisms like what you've just said-

that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it.

Very insightful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shroud.2307 said:

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Btw, on a completely unrelated comment, that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it. Who runs without stunbreaks or cleanses, anyway?

Spectral Walk is a stunbreak and Cleanse. Consume Conditions is a full cleanse. Sigil of Cleansing removes 3. Putrid Mark removes 3. Nefarious Favor removes 2 on a low cooldown.

And yes I agree it's bad. I share builds that I have fun with and that are good in their niche to hopefully inspire others to give it a try or to create ones of their own. I've shared lots of build threads in the past and almost every time I'll add a disclaimer that it isn't meta and will state its weaknesses so people know what they're getting themselves in to if they try it.

I never said it was good, just that it's good at some things. Anything can steamroll clueless PVErs so I don't think that's much of a statement.

I just want to remind people that not everyone who visits the forum are experienced veterans. There are a lot of people that read this and never comment. It is helpful to criticize things, but just saying "x thing is bad" is not. This is why we have a community of players that have 0 creativity. Because any time they experiment with something they're met with insults rather than criticisms like what you've just said-

that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it.

Very insightful.

In my opinion, this is a bad build. People have offered you insight on another thread (most classes will just stunlock you or pewpew you from a distance), yet the reply is always the same: "no insight". Non meta builds can be great, i myself run offmeta builds but this one is just bad.Btw, you havent actually given the full build (correct me if i am mistaken). I imagine it is full trailblazer, some torment runes or necromancer runes or nightmare runes (or similar) with death 2-2-2, curses 1-3-2, scourge 2-2-1 or 2-2-2. Scepter-torch and staff. Either way, you have 3 fear skills, f4, staff 5 and spectral ring (all on high cd), you could run corrupt boon hoping to corrupt stab (into fear for terror to kick in), spectral walk (kinda bad since you desperately need lifeforce, so spectral armor may be better), or trail of anguish for another stunbreak. Assuming you take corrupt boon and spectral ring, you have ONE stunbreak. Good luck with that.Corrupting boons isnt this build's strong suit either. Scepter 3 and corrupt boon, plus any shade skills you use (but this is a shadeless build). So... Yeah.Conditions get mitigated nowadays from enemy roamers, as condirevs are abundant (and generally speaking, condiroamers arent a rarity). You boom condispike on a target? Cleanse, your main offenders (torment and burning) get cleansed and you dont really have the chance to reapply them fast enough, as scourge.What this build offers is tankiness. Warriors, rangers, reapers, corenecs, weavers, mirages, engies, thieves wont have an actual issue against this build.I hope this was insightful enough. I used to run a similar build when boonrip wasnt nerfed, with curses2-2-3 or 2-2-2, scourge 1-2-1 (boonsteals amd lifeforce management). This is obsolete, now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Btw, on a completely unrelated comment, that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it. Who runs without stunbreaks or cleanses, anyway?

Spectral Walk is a stunbreak and Cleanse. Consume Conditions is a full cleanse. Sigil of Cleansing removes 3. Putrid Mark removes 3. Nefarious Favor removes 2 on a low cooldown.

And yes I agree it's bad. I share builds that I have fun with and that are good in their niche to hopefully inspire others to give it a try or to create ones of their own. I've shared lots of build threads in the past and almost every time I'll add a disclaimer that it isn't meta and will state its weaknesses so people know what they're getting themselves in to if they try it.

I never said it was good, just that it's good at some things. Anything can steamroll clueless PVErs so I don't think that's much of a statement.

I just want to remind people that not everyone who visits the forum are experienced veterans. There are a lot of people that read this and never comment. It is helpful to criticize things, but just saying "x thing is bad" is not. This is why we have a community of players that have 0 creativity. Because any time they experiment with something they're met with insults rather than criticisms like what you've just said-

that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it.

Very insightful.

In my opinion, this is a bad build. People have offered you insight on another thread (most classes will just stunlock you or pewpew you from a distance), yet the reply is always the same: "no insight". Non meta builds can be great, i myself run offmeta builds but this one is just bad.Btw, you havent actually given the full build (correct me if i am mistaken). I imagine it is full trailblazer, some torment runes or necromancer runes or nightmare runes (or similar) with death 2-2-2, curses 1-3-2, scourge 2-2-1 or 2-2-2. Scepter-torch and staff. Either way, you have 3 fear skills, f4, staff 5 and spectral ring (all on high cd), you could run corrupt boon hoping to corrupt stab (into fear for terror to kick in), spectral walk (kinda bad since you desperately need lifeforce, so spectral armor may be better), or trail of anguish for another stunbreak. Assuming you take corrupt boon and spectral ring, you have ONE stunbreak. Good luck with that.Corrupting boons isnt this build's strong suit either. Scepter 3 and corrupt boon, plus any shade skills you use (but this is a shadeless build). So... Yeah.Conditions get mitigated nowadays from enemy roamers, as condirevs are abundant (and generally speaking, condiroamers arent a rarity). You boom condispike on a target? Cleanse, your main offenders (torment and burning) get cleansed and you dont really have the chance to reapply them fast enough, as scourge.What this build offers is tankiness. Warriors, rangers, reapers, corenecs, weavers, mirages, engies, thieves wont have an actual issue against this build.I hope this was insightful enough. I used to run a similar build when boonrip wasnt nerfed, with curses2-2-3 or 2-2-2, scourge 1-2-1 (boonsteals amd lifeforce management). This is obsolete, now.

That is a better explanation, most of which I agree.

It frustrates me when people come in to those threads just to say the build is bad, so I defend myself as necessary. X thing will roflstomp you is a criticism and advice, but it isn't very constructive either. You could say that about an entire class in some cases, never mind specific builds.

I suppose I should just stop making build threads since this is about 99% of the types of comments I get. Often times I agree when someone points out a serious flaw, but again, it is rarely constructive.I just want to be able to share things I'm proud of and to discuss; ways to improve the build, to hear about similar builds other people have run, and to learn about or focus on underused things (be it trait, utility, stat, etc.) to see how flexible they can be.

The builds' strong suit is aggression, like I'd said in the thread. I also said it doesn't have many Corrupts, so you're correct. It has many weaknesses, but not every build needs to have a 90% rate of success to be fun. I just don't think I'll ever get why that's so hard for some people to grasp is all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shroud.2307 said:It frustrates me when people come in to those threads just to say the build is bad, so I defend myself as necessary. X thing will roflstomp you is a criticism and advice, but it isn't very constructive either. You could say that about an entire class in some cases, never mind specific builds.Don't take it personally, my opinion is this thread is not about scourge builds so it's understable some peeps may have a contrarian opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shroud.2307 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:Btw, on a completely unrelated comment, that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it. Who runs without stunbreaks or cleanses, anyway?

Spectral Walk is a stunbreak and Cleanse. Consume Conditions is a full cleanse. Sigil of Cleansing removes 3. Putrid Mark removes 3. Nefarious Favor removes 2 on a low cooldown.

And yes I agree it's bad. I share builds that I have fun with and that are good in their niche to hopefully inspire others to give it a try or to create ones of their own. I've shared lots of build threads in the past and almost every time I'll add a disclaimer that it isn't meta and will state its weaknesses so people know what they're getting themselves in to if they try it.

I never said it was good, just that it's good at some things. Anything can steamroll clueless PVErs so I don't think that's much of a statement.

I just want to remind people that not everyone who visits the forum are experienced veterans. There are a lot of people that read this and never comment. It is helpful to criticize things, but just saying "x thing is bad" is not. This is why we have a community of players that have 0 creativity. Because any time they experiment with something they're met with insults rather than criticisms like what you've just said-

that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it.

Very insightful.

In my opinion, this is a bad build. People have offered you insight on another thread (most classes will just stunlock you or pewpew you from a distance), yet the reply is always the same: "no insight". Non meta builds can be great, i myself run offmeta builds but this one is just bad.Btw, you havent actually given the full build (correct me if i am mistaken). I imagine it is full trailblazer, some torment runes or necromancer runes or nightmare runes (or similar) with death 2-2-2, curses 1-3-2, scourge 2-2-1 or 2-2-2. Scepter-torch and staff. Either way, you have 3 fear skills, f4, staff 5 and spectral ring (all on high cd), you could run corrupt boon hoping to corrupt stab (into fear for terror to kick in), spectral walk (kinda bad since you desperately need lifeforce, so spectral armor may be better), or trail of anguish for another stunbreak. Assuming you take corrupt boon and spectral ring, you have ONE stunbreak. Good luck with that.Corrupting boons isnt this build's strong suit either. Scepter 3 and corrupt boon, plus any shade skills you use (but this is a shadeless build). So... Yeah.Conditions get mitigated nowadays from enemy roamers, as condirevs are abundant (and generally speaking, condiroamers arent a rarity). You boom condispike on a target? Cleanse, your main offenders (torment and burning) get cleansed and you dont really have the chance to reapply them fast enough, as scourge.What this build offers is tankiness. Warriors, rangers, reapers, corenecs, weavers, mirages, engies, thieves wont have an actual issue against this build.I hope this was insightful enough. I used to run a similar build when boonrip wasnt nerfed, with curses2-2-3 or 2-2-2, scourge 1-2-1 (boonsteals amd lifeforce management). This is obsolete, now.

That is a better explanation, most of which I agree.

It frustrates me when people come in to those threads just to say the build is bad, so I defend myself as necessary.
X thing will roflstomp you
is a criticism and advice, but it isn't very constructive either. You could say that about an entire class in some cases, never mind specific builds.

I suppose I should just stop making build threads since this is about 99% of the types of comments I get. Often times I agree when someone points out a serious flaw, but again, it is rarely constructive.I just want to be able to share things I'm proud of and to discuss; ways to improve the build, to hear about similar builds other people have run, and to learn about or focus on underused things
(be it trait, utility, stat, etc.)
to see how flexible they can be.

The builds' strong suit is aggression, like I'd said in the thread. I also said it doesn't have many Corrupts, so you're correct. It has many weaknesses, but not every build needs to have a 90% rate of success to be fun. I just don't think I'll ever get why that's so hard for some people to grasp is all.

So... You want insight, but you dont like it? People point out flaws, suggest better things, get constructive, and yet... Theyre the problem? No.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

soo when a spellbreaker uses bullscharge followed by hundred blades that can deal a super high amount of dmg in a short time as well, with bullscharge being an evade which makes it very safe to pull off.

you can’t just say hurrdur look at my dmg output on my friend who is standing still so i can test my dmg and expect decent players to take you seriously. there are plenty of builds that can be extremely oppressive as a +1 build, daredevil or core thief comes to mind. this is the ONLY WAY you can actually pull off those crazy numbers.

as someone who does not use OWP, I don’t find it very strong. with how much stab and stunbreakers are out there, as well as general dmg denial, using both sicem utility AND your elite on a burst that you don’t know for 100% will land is just not a good idea.

once again, if you’re getting farmed by 1 soulbeast, git gud, if there’s more than 1, you’re just out of position and should stop running around alone.

if neither is happening to you, stop thinking AB Golem or my friend is standing afk here so i can test my dmg on a full burst while popping 1-2 utilities and my elite means ANYTHING.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

6EBThg2.jpg

Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy gimped his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@bigo.9037 said:soo when a spellbreaker uses bullscharge followed by hundred blades that can deal a super high amount of dmg in a short time as well, with bullscharge being an evade which makes it very safe to pull off.

you can’t just say hurrdur look at my dmg output on my friend who is standing still so i can test my dmg and expect decent players to take you seriously. there are plenty of builds that can be extremely oppressive as a +1 build, daredevil or core thief comes to mind. this is the ONLY WAY you can actually pull off those crazy numbers.

as someone who does not use OWP, I don’t find it very strong. with how much stab and stunbreakers are out there, as well as general dmg denial, using both sicem utility AND your elite on a burst that you don’t know for 100% will land is just not a good idea.

once again, if you’re getting farmed by 1 soulbeast, git gud, if there’s more than 1, you’re just out of position and should stop running around alone.

if neither is happening to you, stop thinking AB Golem or my friend is standing afk here so i can test my dmg on a full burst while popping 1-2 utilities and my elite means ANYTHING.

If a warrior uses bull's charge and HB all you have to do is stunbreak and walk forward and it does no damage lol. You don't even have to dodge.

Also, RF hits for more damage with the vuln stacking (except for the final hit of HB, but if you take that you're either bad or running a bad build) with a shorter channel, is cast from 1500 units, and can be cast while moving.

So yeah, not sure why you're comparing RF to HB and citing HB as OP when RF is literally stronger lol.That or you just don't know what the skills do with their respective splits cross-format and shouldn't be talking about balance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

6EBThg2.jpg

Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

Ah i find funny we are still discussing this. First of those number seems to high for the current numbers, is it an screenshot pre-nerf to Sicem? . I haven't seen a 2K OWP from long time ago. Currently the skill pulls 1.2 - 1.5K in wvw maybe because the targets usually run tankier. In any case...

I have to say you got downed by a full berserker set ranger in scholar runes using Quickening Zephyr + "Sic 'Em!" + One Wolf Pack followed by a + PBS and a full RF channel.

So that ranger has to run around full glass and blow up the utility bar and the elite and a couple of weapon skills and you stay totally still and AFK to pull that off as a single dodge would have evaded the full Rapid Fire channel. Or one single application of Protection. Toughness doesn't do much in this game.

A DH can pull that off with a couple of traps and the shield. A mesmer with one shatter. Even Scourge can deal that amount of damage in one go using the F1-F4 at once in a full glass build, at 1200 range and still have available the whole utility bar and the weapon skills.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

6EBThg2.jpg

Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

Ah i find funny we are still discussing this. First of those number seems to high for the current numbers, is it an screenshot pre-nerf to Sicem? . I haven't seen a 2K OWP from long time ago. Currently the skill pulls 1.2 - 1.5K in wvw maybe because the targets usually run tankier. In any case...That was from last night. Like I said, with 2.4k armor and 25k HP. Not tanky but not squishy either.I have to say you got downed by a full berserker set ranger in scholar runes using
+
+
followed by a +
and a full
.

So that ranger has to run around full glass and blow up the utility bar and the elite and a couple of weapon skills and you stay totally still and AFK to pull that off as a single dodge would have evaded the full Rapid Fire channel. Or one single application of Protection. Toughness doesn't do much in this game.I believe I mentioned in another thread that this combo would 0-100 even a Minstrel Firebrand or Sentinel Warrior, About the only way you live if they get the drop on you is if you have an automatic invuln or protection built into your build.

Like I said, I stopped to manage inventory while talking to a friend online, so I had a popup window blocking my view. Always the risk you take, so I'm not even mad at it. I was down before the inventory screen closed to even see what was going on. Grant it, I keep meaning to slap some Earth runes back into my armor just to fck with Soulbeasts, but I have more important things to worry about.

A DH can pull that off with a couple of traps and the shield. A mesmer with one shatter. Even Scourge can deal that amount of damage in one go using the F1-F4 at once in a full glass build, at 1200 range and still have available the whole utility bar and the weapon skills.Yeah and I can pop someone for 24k with a Gunflame, but the point is the Feb. Patch was supposed to curtail such things, but really only accomplished kneecapping a handful of classes while allowing others to continue instagibbing people with relative ease.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Yeah and I can pop someone for 24k with a Gunflame, but the point is the Feb. Patch was supposed to curtail such things, but really only accomplished kneecapping a handful of classes while allowing others to continue instagibbing people with relative ease.

Well yeah i get your point. Just as counter point, after the Feb balance patch the Devs already explained that they think those builds should exists anyway, because it adds variation to the game mode. Holo can nuke you the same, power herald with hammer/sword the same, and weaver is also a killing machine. I mean every single class has access to one glass dps build.

The Feb. patch was designed to somehow force players to commit into the build they want to play. Before the patch almost anybody could run as tanky as wanted yet do as much damage as a full glass build.

So now you can do 24K gunflame but you have to run a really squishy build, same as the pewpew and the Scourge. Which i think is mostly fine; the balance tip should be the need to use more skills for the burst: In the case of the warrior you need to dedicate your build to that burst (same as the pewpew) having very little in terms of sustain, consume your elite and maybe another signet for the unblockable. Yes you got big mobility with the sword and keep a couple of invulns for sustain but then you won't deal that ranged damage.

I think that is balanced.

The builds which may need balance are those which can deal much damage while being relatively tanky by not needing to commit in the armor set and skills. That i would say is unbalanced.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Yeah and I can pop someone for 24k with a Gunflame, but the point is the Feb. Patch was supposed to curtail such things, but really only accomplished kneecapping a handful of classes while allowing others to continue instagibbing people with relative ease.

Well yeah i get your point. Just as counter point, after the Feb balance patch the Devs already explained that they think those builds should exists anyway, because it adds variation to the game mode. Holo can nuke you the same, power herald with hammer/sword the same, and weaver is also a killing machine. I mean every single class has access to one glass dps build.Can I get an unnerfed Arc Divider and 20% Bloody Roar back then?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Can I get an unnerfed Arc Divider and 20% Bloody Roar back then?

So you want a Warrior AoE dps without the need to commit to the build?

Bloddy Roar hasn't been nerfed. Before did add the damage additively and when changed to multiplicatively got a reduced multiplier so it wasn't buffed to be over 20%.Arc Divider does more damage than Gunflame with the full chanell ( 0.7 * 3 = 2.1 ) vs 1.5

This is just petty which could be the synopsis of this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Can I get an unnerfed Arc Divider and 20% Bloody Roar back then?

So you want a Warrior AoE dps without the need to commit to the build?Oh no, I commit to it.
hasn't been nerfed. Before did add the damage additively and when changed to multiplicatively got a reduced multiplier so it wasn't buffed to be over 20%.
does more damage than
with the full chanell ( 0.7 * 3 = 2.1 ) vs 1.5I meant the Arc Divider from right when they rolled out the Berserker Rework. Roughly the same effect as the OWP+RF combo in its effectiveness in deleting people, but requires more resources and to be in melee range, so that means it should be fine right (/s)?This is just petty which could be the synopsis of this thread./shrug

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

6EBThg2.jpg

Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

Ah i find funny we are still discussing this. First of those number seems to high for the current numbers, is it an screenshot pre-nerf to Sicem? . I haven't seen a 2K OWP from long time ago. Currently the skill pulls 1.2 - 1.5K in wvw maybe because the targets usually run tankier. In any case...

I have to say you got downed by a full berserker set ranger in scholar runes using
+
+
followed by a +
and a full
.

So that ranger has to run around full glass and blow up the utility bar and the elite and a couple of weapon skills and you stay totally still and AFK to pull that off as a single dodge would have evaded the full Rapid Fire channel. Or one single application of Protection. Toughness doesn't do much in this game.

A DH can pull that off with a couple of traps and the shield. A mesmer with one shatter. Even Scourge can deal that amount of damage in one go using the F1-F4 at once in a full glass build, at 1200 range and still have available the whole utility bar and the weapon skills.

as a mesmer player I find it offensive to suggest one shatter can do 25k dmg to someone with 2,4k armor

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I don't see what the problem is. Comparatively speaking Soulbeasts never had that great many numbers in WvW and in fact are regularly less populous than the rest of the classes used in WvW, except maybe for Revenant. However Revenants are wanted in allied zergs more than a ranger would be. Most soulbeasts will be op roamers, but their usually shoved to the side in larger groups that have particular meta-groupings of firebrands, scourge, guards, dome warrirors, healing ele's and support engineers. In fact there's little to no meta-group builds for Soulbeasts within a zerg. At best we're used as harrasers, and the one job of headhunting most commanders tell us not to headhunt, because they want a "fair fight". I would prefer to win with every trick in the book, so Soulbeasts, and ranger's in general are most commonly cast offs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You god---- right you will get some hate. And here's some. I can't stand the kind of people go around into every class forum and say nerf this nerf that. What do we have ? Nerf mesmer because too much stealth, too much condi. Nerf guardians because too good at several things at once. Nerf warrior because too high bust. Nerf necro because too tanky, too much condi. Nerf thief because that thing stealth 24 hours a day. Nerf engi because those bubbles and barriers are non-stop. Get real, will ya? what's next? just do auto-attack from now on? or perhaps you will cry foul on the auto too? If things look too easy, congrats, you just killed some noob. if you got owned by SB easily, learn their rotation. Rangers are annoying, but I can take on a SB any day. Didn't those poor SB some massive nerfs recently, no pet switches. What were they before? gods? never heard of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

6EBThg2.jpg

Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

How did him using quickness kitten his damage??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Abyssisis.3971 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

6EBThg2.jpg

Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

How did him using quickness kitten his damage??

OWP procs every 1/4s provided you are hitting every 1/4s like RF does without quickness. Using quickness makes Rapid fire hit faster than a 1/4s interval, thus OWP procs fewer times during the channel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

6EBThg2.jpg

Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

How did him using quickness kitten his damage??

OWP procs every 1/4s provided you are hitting every 1/4s like RF does without quickness. Using quickness makes Rapid fire hit faster than a 1/4s interval, thus OWP procs fewer times during the channel.

Can you post a screen of your combat log showing 10 owp hits from a rapidfire? I’ve never seen one... I can get 5 owp hits from a rapidfire regardless of whether quickness is used or not.

As far as I’m aware, owp and vulture stance intervals is actually 1/2s and not the 1/4s the tooltip claims it to be.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/120309/vulture-stance-attack-intervals-with-rapidfire#latest

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/121393/soulbeast-stances-effects-dont-proc-as-often-as-described-in-the-tooltip#latest

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/One_Wolf_Pack

Stance. Your successful attacks will trigger a second strike while in this stance.This effect can occur once per interval.

PvE/WvW:Damage: 168 (0.63)?One Wolf Pack (8s): Striking a foe will cause them to be attacked again after a short delay.Strike Delay: ¼ secondsInterval: ¼ seconds— In-game description [?]

You may not ever see all 10 procs, because most people are dead before all 10 are needed, or if they dodge/block/blind/evade/invuln during a part of it. You're 0.5s number is because there is a 0.25s delay before the damage packet from OWP activates, but the damage interval that will cause the OWP activation is 0.25s.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/One_Wolf_Pack

Stance. Your successful attacks will trigger a second strike while in this stance.This effect can occur once per interval.

PvE/WvW:Damage: 168 (0.63)?One Wolf Pack (8s): Striking a foe will cause them to be attacked again after a short delay.Strike Delay: ¼ secondsInterval: ¼ seconds— In-game description [?]

You may not ever see all 10 procs, because most people are dead before all 10 are needed, or if they dodge/block/blind/evade/invuln during a part of it. You're 0.5s number is because there is a 0.25s delay before the damage packet from OWP activates, but the damage interval that will cause the OWP activation is 0.25s.

No, Abyssisis.3971 is right. RF does not proc OWP 10x. Could be a latency thing, could be a bug, could be whatever, but it usually only triggers every other hit, without quickness. What the skill description says and how stuff actually works ingame does not always match 100% perfectly (my guess would be that RF hits aren't exactly 0,25s apart, but slightly less, because the skill has a very short "pre-channel" cast time)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

Stance. Your successful attacks will trigger a second strike while in this stance.This effect can occur once per interval.

PvE/WvW:Damage: 168 (0.63)?One Wolf Pack (8s): Striking a foe will cause them to be attacked again after a short delay.Strike Delay: ¼ secondsInterval: ¼ seconds— In-game description [?]

You may not ever see all 10 procs, because most people are dead before all 10 are needed, or if they dodge/block/blind/evade/invuln during a part of it. You're 0.5s number is because there is a 0.25s delay before the damage packet from OWP activates, but the damage interval that will cause the OWP activation is 0.25s.

No, Abyssisis.3971 is right. RF does not proc OWP 10x. Could be a latency thing, could be a bug, could be whatever, but it usually only triggers every other hit, without quickness. What the skill description says and how stuff actually works ingame does not always match 100% perfectly (my guess would be that RF hits aren't exactly 0,25s apart, but slightly less, because the skill has a very short "pre-channel" cast time)

Pretty sure I tested it with shortbow as well, and it still doesn’t get 1/4s between owp procs. Seems to be taking the interval and strike delay into account before allowing another owp proc to occur. So basically 1/2s between owp damage strikes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

The Damage can be pumped up by use of Boons, Food/Oil, atypical Ranger Runes, and not let us forget about Sigils. Can those numbers be duplicated? Yes, yes they can. Because you all didn't take into account ALL the different mechanics that go into the the Damage of the skill in the first place. For those of you that have Legendary everything on your ranger, I would suggest having a little fun by going crazy with mix/matching with your legendary equipment. You'd be surprised with what you could do with Rapidfire.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...