Lich form is broken

[Rose.2593]

According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

[Shao.7236]

Skills that transform players can counter other transform skills. Stability doesn't nullify it and Stability is also a double edged boon as it can convert into Fear.

[Rose.2593]

Okay sure, the transform skill is right, but how can you still be feared in Lich form, when the tool tip specifically says cannot be feared?

[Terrorhuz.4695]

@John.8507 said:According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

[Megametzler.5729]

@John.8507 said:Okay sure, the transform skill is right, but how can you still be feared in Lich form, when the tool tip specifically says cannot be feared?

Lich form has stability, pulsing, so when that gets corrupted it becomes fear. :smile:

[Tycura.1982]

I mean that's just counter play and they would have to corrupt or remove your stability for that to happen. Are you saying lich should have less counterplay? That's a hot take lmao.

[bethekey.8314]

@John.8507 said:Okay sure, the transform skill is right, but how can you still be feared in Lich form, when the tool tip specifically says cannot be feared?

I certainly fear Lich Form. Have nightmares about it.

[Bazsi.2734]

@John.8507 said:Okay sure, the transform skill is right, but how can you still be feared in Lich form, when the tool tip specifically says cannot be feared?

Take a look at that tooltip again. The transform does not grant you immunity to fear and other CC, it just applies stability. Which is a boon, and boons have counterplay to them. They can be removed and corrupted. So the transform is functionally not broken, it's actually working as intended.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@John.8507 said:According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems ass backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

[Terrorhuz.4695]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@John.8507 said:According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

[anduriell.6280]

I'm sorry but when i read the title i understood "Lich Form is OP" wich i was going to say "A little overtunned.. Yes..."Am i the only one who relates "broken" to be overtunned?

[Dadnir.5038]

@"anduriell.6280" said:I'm sorry but when i read the title i understood "Lich Form is OP" wich i was going to say "A little overtunned.. Yes..."Am i the only one who relates "broken" to be overtunned?

"Broken" stand for both in an advantageous way and a disadvantageous way. We see more often "OP" for orvertunned than "UP" for "undertunned".

As for the subject of the thread, the Lich form tooltip does not say that you cannot be feared, it's the stability tooltip that say it. Stability, being a boon, is subject to boon counterplay (boon rip, boon convertion, boon stealing...), and in case of boon convertion this specific boon is converted into fear (removing it and applying fear).

As for Moa, it's a transformation skill and thus is not affected by stability so it just replace lich form when used against someone under lich form transformation (Wouldn't it be troublesome if you couldn't use lich form or death/reaper shroud due to the fact that they are transformation because you have stability?).

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Well reapers deadlier than warrior in melee range so why wouldn't it have a deadlier transform as well, anets balance....what a wonderful thing.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@John.8507 said:According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

[Terrorhuz.4695]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@John.8507 said:According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

Please no, how am I supposed to deal with flamethrower scrappers then? Grillers are strong

[Bazsi.2734]

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@John.8507 said:According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

Please no, how am I supposed to deal with flamethrower scrappers then? Grillers are strong

I guess Shadow Meld is okay then? :P

[phokus.8934]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@John.8507 said:According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less badThat’d be insanely broken. Dodging, blinding, and blocking are perfect counters to Moa

[Terrorhuz.4695]

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@John.8507 said:According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

Please no, how am I supposed to deal with flamethrower scrappers then? Grillers are strong

I guess Shadow Meld is okay then? :P

IDK dude, I'm a mesmer, my job is to die when a shadow melder spawns :(

[Leonidrex.5649]

@phokus.8934 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@John.8507 said:According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less badThat’d be insanely broken. Dodging, blinding, and blocking are perfect counters to Moa

yes, 180s cd 1s cast time would be insanely broken indeed, its stupid that random proc of blind or aegis can deny you 180s cd skill while something that is ment to deny CC ( stab ) cant do shit

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@phokus.8934 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Terrorhuz.4695 said:

@John.8507 said:According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less badThat’d be insanely broken. Dodging, blinding, and blocking are perfect counters to Moa

yes, 180s cd 1s cast time would be insanely broken indeed, its stupid that random proc of blind or aegis can deny you 180s cd skill while something that is ment to deny CC ( stab ) cant do kitten

Honestly, I doubt it would be broken even if Moa was still 10 seconds. It's already pretty much required to do Moa under CS because that cooldown is just too massive to risk being mitigated so easily by blocks and blinds.

[Styros.8931]

whole necro is broken, specially fear zone, but who cares :joy:

[ixora.3569]

It would be cool to make there shroud form a channel skill so you cant just panic F1.

[Levijeh.9643]

Well yeah you cannot be feared and you shall not be feared lol. Cause you have pulsing stability, but it can get perma corrupted by another fellow necro, making it a fun to look at scenario.

[Alabastrum.9361]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Well reapers deadlier than warrior in melee range so why wouldn't it have a deadlier transform as well, anets balance....what a wonderful thing.

Rampage actually outtrades Lich because of the dmg reduction and extra vitality. If you land dash its even better. Lich doesnt get any dmg reduction after all.Same thing with Tornado btw. there you have too much stab.Rampage is the best transformation elite in a head to head with other transformation elites. It also last longer enabling to cc the Necro after his Lich form has ended.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Alabastrum.9361 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:Well reapers deadlier than warrior in melee range so why wouldn't it have a deadlier transform as well, anets balance....what a wonderful thing.

Rampage actually outtrades Lich because of the dmg reduction and extra vitality. If you land dash its even better. Lich doesnt get any dmg reduction after all.Same thing with Tornado btw. there you have too much stab.Rampage is the best transformation elite in a head to head with other transformation elites. It also last longer enabling to cc the Necro after his Lich form has ended.

Naw I disagree, loch 100% is more effective in team fights and as a oh shit button, rampage is extremely easy to kite and wait out.