So now that PvP is dead....can we try it?

[voltaicbore.8012]

@otto.5684 said:We might have a peak around the new expansion, but I would be surprised if it lasts more than 3 months. It is a death spiral, sadly. And even if Anet puts their act together, it won’t make a difference. The game is just too old, and clearly lacks the longevity that few other games have.

It pains me greatly to admit this, but I agree - lately I just can't shake the feeling that the game is in a death spiral, and anything cool we have to look forward to in EoD can't really reverse that. It hurts to watch, because GW2 has so much to give, but I'm not sure we players have the patience left to wait for the devs to draw that out between bungled releases and abandoned game features.

More than the underlying technology of the game, I think it takes a special kind of vision and management to keep an old product relevant for a decade+. That being said, I'm sure there are things about how GW2 is built (high end machines still struggling to keep FPS steady, for one thing) that make it even less likely that someone with that special vision/management could have pulled it off.

[Flumek.9043]

@"Luclinraider.2317" said:

Downstate isnt problem, it is actually its best selling point.

It makes the game unique AND adds control (most important).GW2 simply SUUUUCKZ for deathmatch format. While the "CONTROL" aspect of combat is amazing.The game at launch had poeple play cleric bunker guard, which mainly rezzed or stomped with stability - AND ppl loved it. Just cc+bursting someone from stealth isnt really that skillfull and it adds a ton of rng. The interupt - cleave - rezz trinity is the best stabilizer of gw2 combat.Theres also WHOLE CLASSES DESIGNED to be HORRIBLE for deathmatch but having rezz support in exchange. TLDR a "mode" with 0 rezzed is WVW ROAMING. Now think what builds and playstyles dominate that format.

What CAN/WERE problems and shouldnt return:

• mercy rune bunkers for rezz abusing
• perma 1x stack stability for rezz abuse
• 2x double rally , makes too big swings and punishes the team who already lost a player too much. ( ex. Turning a 3v2 into a 3v4 is freelose, would be more interesting to keep it 3v3 with 1 downed)
• too much AOE dmg for preventing rezz at all (this is main problem NOW since powercreep turned support bunkers into hybrids)

[Luthan.5236]

Downstate is good. Rallying is bad. (Especially if more than 1 person can really of 1 kill in PvP.)And the people trying to argue against adding new game modes with something like "it will split the already low playerbase between game modes".

The fact that there are not enough game modes to satisfy a lot of players (there seem to be a lot that do not dislike PvP in general but that hate conquest) might have been a part that lead to the low population.

If you add more game modes (we have another recent thread about this topic) it could create synergy effects: People that never played PvP that now start to play it - just because of that game mode ... with them maybe playing the other modes as well every now and then. (Especially if you do daily rotation .... play 1 gamemode x at one day and the next day another daily ... rotating.)

[Jables.4659]

For all the players who asked why removing downstate would improve the game: Downstate as a mechanic favors the side with higher numbers. It really is as simple as that. Any WvW roamer will tell you that fighting 1vX becomes significantly easier when no downstate weekend is in effect. Apart from the obvious removal to promote skill based combat, it would also help to prevent snowballing in matches. In 5v5 conquest, one of the best ways to win is to ensure that the enemy team always has less people in active play than your team. This is accomplished by keeping the enemy team on "half res" so that as they push back onto the points they are always outnumbered (which makes winning fights even harder with downstate essentially acting as a force multiplier to the larger group). Downstate as a mechanic allows players to bolster the re-spawn timer of their enemies by forcing them to sit in downstate and wait for the automatic health degeneration to kill them, providing time for the enemies who were stomped to get back into play as the ones who were forced to wait are still on timer. I'm sure this has happened to all of us many times. It feels as though your team is playing 3v5 for an entire match.

[anjo.6143]

I know thats not the reason pvp is dead, but I dont see any sense on downed state on pvp either.

[otto.5684]

@voltaicbore.8012 said:

@otto.5684 said:We might have a peak around the new expansion, but I would be surprised if it lasts more than 3 months.

It is a death spiral, sadly. And even if Anet puts their act together, it won’t make a difference.

The game is just too old, and clearly lacks the longevity that few other games have.

It pains me greatly to admit this, but I agree - lately I just can't shake the feeling that the game is in a death spiral, and anything cool we have to look forward to in EoD can't really reverse that. It hurts to watch, because GW2 has so much to give, but I'm not sure we players have the patience left to wait for the devs to draw that out between bungled releases and abandoned game features.

More than the underlying technology of the game, I think it takes a special kind of vision and management to keep an old product relevant for a decade+. That being said, I'm sure there are things about how GW2 is built (high end machines still struggling to keep FPS steady, for one thing) that make it even less likely that someone with that special vision/management could have pulled it off.

It is not an easy question what maintains players interest for more than 5 years. The only other MMO that managed that level of success is WoW. I personally dunno why. I think GW2 was holding okayish till mid last year. But since, every thing was mediocre, slow and/or receycled.

For me, the spvp Feb 2020 patch was a major mistake. Major shifts rarely bring players back to the game or bring in new players. The most definitely alienate many existing active players. This is why these need to be a slam dunk. What Anet did was an air ball. And even if you can argue it hit the board, this cannot be mediocre. It needed to be extremely good, so it would not alienate a big portion of the player base.

[MysteryMen.3791]

@Widmo.3186 said:

@MysteryMen.3791 said:Also no one above gold 3 has ever wanted downstate removed, definitely not the old gw2 pros and the current top tier players. I have never once tilted because downstate existed but clearly you do a lot.

Aaand thats not quite truth. Except for balance and lack of...interest from ANet side in PvP scene, downed state was one of the reasons why MMO PvP pros/players/etc didnt like GW2 PvP. Myself included, as a guy that came to GW2 from WoW and GW1 and played both of them on high PvP level. Over the years, many streamers that have multiple thousands of viewers in WoW (either playing pve, arenas or other things) or other MMOs wanted to try gw2 and in PvP almost all of them said that downed state is just...weird and not needed.

Now hear me out, I dont say that downed state is pure evil. It makes game flow much slower, but you can get used to it and take advantage in conquest mode making other players useless for longer amount of time. Problem starts when we come across few things, such as ressbots. There shouldnt exist any, again, ANY skills, traits, whatsoever that makes ressing players faster than it is implemented by default. You use multiple CDs to burst some1 down, then comes 1 guy with one CD and just picks him up. No, if you wanna pick some1 up, you gotta go to that body, spend few seconds ressing him, popping your defensive CDs so you wont die either. Let me compare it to WoW where ress skill is 10 (!) second cast. Also there are hillarious downed state skills, such as rev slow, condi teef spamming 1 etc. Tbh I have no idea who designed them, but since the very beginning those are a joke (back in the vanilla days there were necro builds with downed +damage trait that allowed to deal same damage as if you were up, hillarious Karthus gameplay).

The other thing is kinda more complicated, and its conquest mode as a whole. GW2 wanted to be a special kiddo where in most MMOs in ranked games you just have arenas or sth like that, 2v2, 3v3 etc. Its good, it works. But ANet made sth called 'cap and hold 3 circles for X minutes, have fun'. Over the years more and more ppl started leaving this mode because they just want to fight, they dont care about circles. They moved to other games, or to dueling zones, or WvW. Existing bunker and healbots aint helping either. So what ANet made? Hmmm, how about we admit our mistakes and make 2v2, 3v3 off-meta arenas? Yeah, right in time. But oh boi, what a clownfiesta those modes became. And again, while in conquest mode downed state can be either your advantage and disadvantage, in 2s and 3s there should be no such thing. If you die, you die, period. But thats just some offmeta gamemode that no1 cares about because there are no PvP devs in this company that can properly balance it and make arenas viable in gw2.

tl;drYou see, GW2 was this one special kid in class that wanted to make things on its own. No arenas, conquest mode (arenas added later on), no raids, fractals and dungeons (raids added later on), no instant death mode in pvp modes, downed state (wvw 'no downed state' week events later on) and so on and so on. Ofc you can be succesful as special kid, bah, gw2 started as really succesful one! But lack of any interest from the company made this game what we have now, kinda dead, more and more with each day. Copy-pasting is easy way to make money, starting new meta is hard and lack of any commitment from devs side is just a proof that they shouldnt start anything new and just copy-paste and learn from big brothers because they have no idea what to do with their cake.

name a single top level gw2 player or pro that doesn't like downstate. Only people that get annoyed by it are people unable to deal with their own lack of skill when a target gets revived. It also adds a lot of depth to the game and decision making.