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What would bring more players regularly to DRMs?


Fleabite.7528

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@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:If the DRM continue as they currently are then I will do the minimum required to get through the story and base achievements. I would suggest the following changes:

1 - Make Squad Sized DRM, scaling mob count and difficultyI fail to understand the intent of limiting DRM to 5 players. As such, I feel that making DRM work in groups larger than 5 and up to 50 would benefit the overall playability.

2 - In Squad Sized DRM, bake CM into 'pre-events' where completing the pre unlocks the CMIf the group can pull of the pre-events, then they can likely pull off the CM, scale rewards accordingly

3 - Give each Squad Sized DRM a set start time once every 1 hour (expanding to every 2 hours assuming additional DRM are released)By having a focused start time every 20-30 minutes, players will have a target time to engage the DRM they want to play.

4 - Retain DRM for 1-5 players as 'on demand' content, but also as the primary way of engaging with the story elements.In the above Squad size DRM, the story elements could be toned down, for example all the dialogue during the escort in Metrica.

There is an argument for giving DRM farmable value similar to other content currently available. However I would be far more likely to do DRM dailies if Squad Sized DRM was an option, regardless of the net value.

The content is designed for 5 man and scaling downward, see the interviews regarding DRMs' rationale on massivelyop.

Many skills don't scale past 5 players anyway and fractals are largely successful along with Living Story : those are all 5 man.

Rhetorical question: if it ended up similar to Eternal Ice Shards where after it is no longer the "new thing" and the prismantium crystal output was multiplied by a factor of 10 for the crystals, along with weekly amalgamated draconic lodestones, would we have this thread?

The biggest gripe people have besides the inability to skip dialogue on repeats is how 10-15 minutes later you get loot that essentially is openworld Drizzlewood Coast or Bjora Marches chest drops unless you are insanely lucky.

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@Infusion.7149 said:

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:If the DRM continue as they currently are then I will do the minimum required to get through the story and base achievements. I would suggest the following changes:

1 - Make Squad Sized DRM, scaling mob count and difficultyI fail to understand the intent of limiting DRM to 5 players. As such, I feel that making DRM work in groups larger than 5 and up to 50 would benefit the overall playability.

2 - In Squad Sized DRM, bake CM into 'pre-events' where completing the pre unlocks the CMIf the group can pull of the pre-events, then they can likely pull off the CM, scale rewards accordingly

3 - Give each Squad Sized DRM a set start time once every 1 hour (expanding to every 2 hours assuming additional DRM are released)By having a focused start time every 20-30 minutes, players will have a target time to engage the DRM they want to play.

4 - Retain DRM for 1-5 players as 'on demand' content, but also as the primary way of engaging with the story elements.In the above Squad size DRM, the story elements could be toned down, for example all the dialogue during the escort in Metrica.

There is an argument for giving DRM farmable value similar to other content currently available. However I would be far more likely to do DRM dailies if Squad Sized DRM was an option, regardless of the net value.

The content is designed for 5 man and scaling downward, see the interviews regarding DRMs' rationale on massivelyop.

Many skills don't scale past 5 players anyway and fractals are largely successful along with Living Story : those are all 5 man.

I tried searching for developer reasoning for making DRM and the only thing I can find is reference to them finding the scaling of 10 player content down to 1 player was harder than scaling down from 5. As story instances have been 'generally' available to groups of players that 'generally' can all engage with the story, why did DRM require so much additional tech? Why does this selection of stories need a new hybrid instanced content type?

If anyone can link directly to developer information about why they built DRM (as opposed to existing methods), what they were meant to accomplish, please do.

Having worked in software development, we term this type of release MVP or Minimum Viable Product. An MVP release will technically hit the goals of the release, but rarely do so in an elegant or logical fashion. In this case, Anet can state 'We released new instanced content, we released new story content, we added new skins and rewards, we added new currency, we added overworld events" and perhaps more. But while we can't argue that they did these things, we can argue that they did so in a successful, logical, or meaningful way.

An MVP release usually is the result of rushing out a project whose goals were not clearly defined. I can of course give a pass for this past year, but would argue that DRM were half baked from the start and need more attention at the design table to meet a better standard as a new form of instanced group content.

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@Mungo Zen.9364 said:

An MVP release usually is the result of rushing out a project whose goals were not clearly defined. I can of course give a pass for this past year, but would argue that DRM were half baked from the start and need more attention at the design table to meet a better standard as a new form of instanced group content.

I'd say the MVP concept is (rightfully) the prevailing theme of Champions. I hope ANet understands just how far off the mark the entire Saga turned out to be for many players, and is just looking to wrap it up with the minimum amount of effort for a barely acceptable end product.

For me (and I suspect, many other long time players who are still set on buying EoD) DRMs don't need any improvement - not because they're not terrible, but because we just want it to be over and have no interest in them . However, I am slightly concerned that those less committed to GW2 will end up disengaging for good if Champions drops the ball too hard. I personally don't think EoD will be anywhere near as poorly executed as the Saga or Champions, so while disappointing, Champions doesn't really change my desire to get EoD and continue with GW2. I can see how someone with far less experience with the game wouldn't share that position, and that's worrying.

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As others have mentioned. Scaling them work for groups as well as solo would help the interaction with the content. Clarity on the reward and systems that go along with it would help as well. What is even the point of having multiple currencies for each specific faction? Each faction has unique rewards for a week and you have to wait for them to rotate in to buy them?

Since when is waiting for rewards a fun experience?

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@rrusse.7058 said:As others have mentioned. Scaling them work for groups as well as solo would help the interaction with the content. Clarity on the reward and systems that go along with it would help as well. What is even the point of having multiple currencies for each specific faction? Each faction has unique rewards for a week and you have to wait for them to rotate in to buy them?

Since when is waiting for rewards a fun experience?

As Ayrilana.1396 said they already scale and the rewards for fraction are 1 week when the release then they dont come back anymore so you can safely use up your crystal bloom and ebon vanguard (apparently the ebon vanguard ones are bugged atm) if your still holding on to any of those.

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@Linken.6345 said:

As Ayrilana.1396 said they already scale and the rewards for fraction are 1 week when the release then they dont come back anymore so you can safely use up your crystal bloom and ebon vanguard (apparently the ebon vanguard ones are bugged atm) if your still holding on to any of those.

Bugged? Oh great. Hopefully they'll fix them with the next patch.

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The npcs are just as weak as tree leaves, in any DRM, 3 Npcs excorting is just bad, wuld make way far more sense, that on our way we found npcs in struggles fighting destroyers and recruiting them along us (NPCS that are, btw, here in the map, at those locations outside of the instance): For Brisban as example, you start with 3 sylvari, then you recruit 3 nightmare courts, then you recruit 3 skritts. Is that hard to put in place? For Gandarran, it can be pirates and lion's guard, for metrica, it can be researchers and inquest. See what I did here, I put faction, an allied one, and one evil one all together, to give the feeling that this apocalyptic destroyer invasion is affecting everyone.

Why it doesn't worth it to me clearly: The foes don't drop good loot, by that, I mean, they could drop at least some factions shards and currencies. Or even having a slow chance for volcanic weapons, god they are destroyers, and the set is called volcanic doesn't it make sense?Once the first part of DRM is finished, somehow, the destroyers that were occupied assaulting the outpost just disappear. Does it make sense? They want to kill those citizens, they aren't here, to have just a 5 minutes screen time right? The final chest doesn't reward significiant loot, for same time it is better to me to do fractals, you know what? Even a leather farm in doric will give me more gold coins than those DRMS! The company said not so long ago, that strikes had "the goal to guide players into raid, like a transition platform": I don't see how that will push me into raid, the hidden lair of snowmen yes It gave me a spark, but those, no. The content feels rushed and that method of delivering content is non adapted:

Take, freezie snowman lair, that mini raid that got released during wintersrday, why, why for the six or eternal alchemy sake they didn't released DRMS as mini raids too?-10 players-3 trying to find the origin of the destroyers energy disruptions/spikes-4 Helping to defend the outpost with static environmental weapons available to prevent capture from the foes.-3 preparing big weapon against big champions arriving, like a lane of chak gerent. (You see, like that cannon on the pact mothership against zhaithan, or something like that): Coming quite rapidly from the main fissure toward the outpost.-Rewards increasing depending and what task you did with the group: Saving citizen, repairing, killing destroyer amount...But in addition, how many elite ones killed, if you prevented the foes to kill allies or capturing the place.-Bosses with real mechanics, even Freezie had better mechanics.-All of that in 13 minutes. Simultaneously the three tasks. After doing the pre expedition ones during 3 minutes.

It is a fight to survive, unexpected assault, it can have a fail version too, if you fail like you gonna get, dunno, gold rank if you did anything, citizens and you retreating, and if successfull, diamond rank. But rewards that really matter, since steel warband give you 1g once completed, here, like a dungeon, give at least 50 silvers, good 20 tokens, possibility to have ascended box of armor/weapon and a certain chance to have a volcanic weapon (1/3 or 1/4) chances. Since they are strikes too, for the sake of it, make the DRM reward crystals, the ones you exchange with Smoxxi.

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@Infusion.7149 said:

@Solvar.7953 said:I see lots of comments of 'make rewards better', and while that would certain draw some players to it, I don't really think that is a good fix or necessarily a good direction to the game.Effectively what Anet is doing in that case is paying players to play poor content. This sounds like most jobs, where the employer is paying the employee to do something that they otherwise wouldn't do.Basing a game on that seems like a poor idea - mostly because at some point the players will realize that they could instead play game X, in which the content is actually enjoyable to play.

Then you have an issue with the whole genre of MMOs which generally have
some
repetition but it boils down to whether it is optional to be on an even footing or not. At least things usually don't die in one hit here (the definition of grind basically) and it's optional content as far as repeats (even the CM achievements are optional).

No, things dying in one hit is not the definition of grind.

There is nothing wrong with repetition. It becomes only a grind if players repeat (over and over again) content they do not like just for the rewards (currency, items, etc.) and it becomes more work than fun. If repeating the content is fun for a player, its not a grind (for that player).

I agree with @Solvar.7953: Making the content better, so more players have fun playing it (and have fun repeating it) would be a better solution than increasing the rewards.

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@Zok.4956 said:

No, things dying in one hit is not the definition of grind.

There is nothing wrong with repetition. It becomes only a grind if players repeat (over and over again) content they do not like just for the rewards (currency, items, etc.) and it becomes more work than fun. If repeating the content is fun for a player, its not a grind (for that player).

I agree with @Solvar.7953: Making the content better, so more players have fun playing it (and have fun repeating it) would be a better solution than increasing the rewards.

In most Asian MMO grind-fests , killing things over and over that die in one hit at their spawn because you are geared such that they are trivial is the grind.

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@Infusion.7149 said:

@Zok.4956 said:

No, things dying in one hit is not the definition of grind.

There is nothing wrong with repetition. It becomes only a grind if players repeat (over and over again) content they do not like just for the rewards (currency, items, etc.) and it becomes more work than fun. If repeating the content is fun for a player, its not a grind (for that player).

I agree with @"Solvar.7953": Making the content better, so more players have fun playing it (and have fun repeating it) would be a better solution than increasing the rewards.

In most Asian MMO grind-fests , killing things over and over that die in one hit at their spawn because you are geared such that they are trivial is the grind.

The grind (for players that do not like this type of gameplay) is not that it is easy to kill things. The grind is doing the killing over and over without liking it.

And I am glad that gw2 is not "most Asian MMO".

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@"Zok.4956" said:The grind (for players that do not like this type of gameplay) is not that it is easy to kill things. The grind is doing the killing over and over without liking it.

And I am glad that gw2 is not "most Asian MMO".

Well if they reduced the timer at the pre-event once the objectives are complete , upped rewards and/or decreased the Prismaticite Crystal cost (directly or indirectly via the Ingot) you wouldn't need to "kill it over and over", would you? Especially given that the only reward other than the skins for Dragon Slayer weapon collection is some AP.

What is the constructive criticism here?

P.S. I would not expect any major recalibration of Prismaticite Crystal costs until after the entire episode is over, presumably May 2021 at the earliest when Chapter 4: Judgment is set to be launched. Bjora Marches' Eternal Ice Shards used to be more scarce until the western portion was released, for example and ultimately it was Bjora Marches that helped with the LS4 currencies for both Skyscale and Vision (legendary accessory).

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Obviously rewards need to be given a little more love. I think to address that two things need to be done1) Add "exciting" rewards that require lots of Tyrian Defense Seals (expensive crafting mats like amalgamated gemstones or mystic coins, obviously in moderation, OR cosmetics like an infusion). Maybe also consider adding a guaranteed way to get Volcanic Stormcaller weapons for a huge amount of Defense Seals to encourage long-term play of the missions.2) Add "worthwhile" repeatable rewards. The supply boxes we currently have don't get you much bang for your buck. You can either reduce the Seal cost for these a bit or add a new repeatable reward that's a better deal.

Then, the gameplay of DRM's could be adjusted to make them a little smoother.1) NPC allies, especially those related to the "ally support" mechanics, should have their vitality and toughness increased and/or auto-revive over time. Currently they die too often to bother keeping alive.2) Once the pre-event is complete, the DRM should progress immediately. Waiting out the timer is easily the slowest part of any DRM.3) Reduce the cost of recruiting an allied faction from Meradh, 10 Seals is too much.

Aside from these changes, I think we should wait and see how the next couple masteries we get impact DRM's. If they're particularly powerful, the pacing issues might be alleviated.

EDIT: Also reduce the cost of the Bead of Liquid Karma. 10 seals for 500 karma is not great lol.

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@avey.4201 said:If pvp wasn't sabotaged more people would play, and more people would make there way there.

What evidence do you have to support such a claim? I know that for my play-group, none of us enjoy PvP so your point wouldn't impact us at all. IMO, GW2 is more PvE centric than anything else. I don't see anything that would change players' minds to suddenly start playing PvP.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@avey.4201 said:If pvp wasn't sabotaged more people would play, and more people would make there way there.

What evidence do you have to support such a claim? I know that for my play-group, none of us enjoy PvP so your point wouldn't impact us at all. IMO, GW2 is more PvE centric than anything else. I don't see anything that would change players' minds to suddenly start playing PvP.

Might have been that the original gw was a more pvp focused game and so should gw2 in this guys oppinion.

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Maybe they should've made the DRMs as new semi-Meta events in old maps instead of instanced content. I find it more engaging while doing events with lots of people and it also makes the world more "alive" hence why it's called living world I guess. This doesn't feel like a living world update at all imo.

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@"Alexchaos.6528" said:Maybe they should've made the DRMs as new semi-Meta events in old maps instead of instanced content. I find it more engaging while doing events with lots of people and it also makes the world more "alive" hence why it's called living world I guess. This doesn't feel like a living world update at all imo.

They'd end up as other maps' events. Unfortunately the biggest driver to keep players playing are rewards which hold their value over time.

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@kharmin.7683 said:

@avey.4201 said:If pvp wasn't sabotaged more people would play, and more people would make there way there.

What evidence do you have to support such a claim? I know that for my play-group, none of us enjoy PvP so your point wouldn't impact us at all. IMO, GW2 is more PvE centric than anything else. I don't see anything that would change players' minds to suddenly start playing PvP.

@avey.4201 said:If pvp wasn't sabotaged more people would play, and more people would make there way there.

What does PVP have to do with DRMs? (Dragon Response Missions)?

Most players play multiple game modes.The people who've moved to other games since the Feb patch didn't spend 100% of their game play in pvp/wvw.Daily's are a routine for many people, and 2/3 modes are pvp oriented, how many people close the game in frustration before they reach DRM's.It effects population.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Alexchaos.6528" said:Maybe they should've made the DRMs as new semi-Meta events in old maps instead of instanced content. I find it more engaging while doing events with lots of people and it also makes the world more "alive" hence why it's called living world I guess. This doesn't feel like a living world update at all imo.

They'd end up as other maps' events. Unfortunately the biggest driver to keep players playing are rewards which hold their value over time.

They could do it meta on older map and still give us good reward. Just like Anomaly: everyone come there for their 1 MC a day

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@avey.4201 said:

@avey.4201 said:If pvp wasn't sabotaged more people would play, and more people would make there way there.

What evidence do you have to support such a claim? I know that for my play-group, none of us enjoy PvP so your point wouldn't impact us at all. IMO, GW2 is more PvE centric than anything else. I don't see anything that would change players' minds to suddenly start playing PvP.

@avey.4201 said:If pvp wasn't sabotaged more people would play, and more people would make there way there.

What does PVP have to do with DRMs? (Dragon Response Missions)?

Most players play multiple game modes.Again, where is your evidence to support this claim? How do you know that "most" players play multiple game modes. I my very small sample (my play group), none of us play multiple modes. Should I then be able to discredit your claim based on the evidence that I have?The people who've moved to other games since the Feb patch didn't spend 100% of their game play in pvp/wvw.Probably, but you know this how?Daily's are a routine for many people, and 2/3 modes are pvp oriented, how many people close the game in frustration before they reach DRM's.Completing dailies isn't required to complete game content. No one has to do them if they prefer DRMs.It effects population.One could claim that many different variables affect population. You haven't supported your point of view with anything factual.
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@nopinopa.4861 said:

@"Alexchaos.6528" said:Maybe they should've made the DRMs as new semi-Meta events in old maps instead of instanced content. I find it more engaging while doing events with lots of people and it also makes the world more "alive" hence why it's called living world I guess. This doesn't feel like a living world update at all imo.

They'd end up as other maps' events. Unfortunately the biggest driver to keep players playing are rewards which hold their value over time.

They could do it meta on older map and still give us good reward. Just like Anomaly: everyone come there for their 1 MC a day

A meta event on the map itself would make it nothing but a boring zerg fest. The reward shouldn’t be tied to a single item as a reward as it would tank the price of that item and we’ll be right back to where it’s not worth doing.

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