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The problem with stats runes and sigils bound to equipment


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@"namelesswc.9217" said:Tldr: The point I wanted to make with this post is that being able to experiment with different builds should be a basic feature of a MMO. Because builds are useless with wrong stats, people can't experiment properly. Instead you have to follow meta builds to not waste money on equipment which is not ideal.And yet most MMOs other than this one gate traits/build changes behind costly respec systems that require time or currency sinks and often both.Most other MMOs additonally require months of grind to get anything close to BiS gear and rather that giving you the opportunity to change stats (as this one does) require to you regrind your gear should you be looking for something different.Once stats, runes and sigils are applied to equipment it is very hard / expensive to change without having legendary equipment. This leads to almost everybody playing the exact meta build in raids or fractals because the have been proven to work and discourage players to try out new things because it's so expensive.What is the worst case for a sigil swap?Ten gold each?Can't I make ten gold in an hour of mining rocks and trees in Mount Maelstrom/Sparkfly Fen?Also every raider or fractal player is running around in openworld with their full berserker raid / fractal gear and getting 1 shotted all the time because it's to much of an effort to get a completely new set of gear for open world gameplay.Love to see your source for this "fact". Most high end fractal or raid players I know find Open World pretty easy.Now if you want try something off meta for raids/endgame fractals or a different build for open world you have get new gear, which requires time and money and depending on the stat of the gear (viper, minstrel, diviner, harrier) a lot of time. And after you get it, it could turn out it's totally kitten. What if trailblazer stats doesn't turn out as good in openworld as you have expected and you want to try out celestial? Well have fun grinding a new set of equipment. And the trailblazer's is new blocking space inside your inventory for years because you don't want to delete it.Isn't the solution for this already in game? Isn't second best in slot armor available at very minimal cost?When I look at the current availability of stat selectable exotic armor to play with buildcraft I'm actually pretty happy. I get a piece every week just for a couple hours in WvW, I have the bladed sets in Verdant Brink, I have those Ice Golem hats on the TP for less than 1g each. The requiem sets, the runic shaman sets... the list really does go on. It's never been easier to kit out a test build even in something like Trailblazers or Minstrels. We have a ton of stat selectable second best in slot alternatives. We also have gear loadout slots (equipment templates). This makes it perfectly viable to set up a second set of test gear for less than ten gold.... in any stat set we want.If you are looking to "try out" another stat set, exotic armor is all you need.Ascended trinkets are ridiculously easy to come by. Investing some time in Bloodstone fen can give you 4 of your 6 trinkets (Two rings, one backpack, one amulet) a stat reset option for the ridiculously low price of 100 unbound magic for all 4. Amulets and Accessories can be had for karma and 30 minutes of opening chests in Bjora every day making them largely disposable. A caladbolg gives most builds the option of a stat selctable ascended weapon with a reset option for 1000 unbound magic.Isn't the cost of stat-selectable Ascended Armor at an all-time low thanks to Senior Crystallographer Smoxxi anyways?Don't most players who do frequent t4 fractals also have a bank tab filled with Ascended Armor boxes?Opt 1: Easiest but maybe not best - Make all ascended equipment always stat selectable just like legendaries.This considerably devalues Legendary equipment by removing it's value beyond the skinOpt 2: Make ascended stat selectable but one have to unlock the stats. E.g. doing some achievements to onlock viper stats?This considerably devalues Legendary equipment by removing it's value beyond the skinOpt 3: Same as Opt 2 but add Gem Store item to unlock all Stats?This considerably devalues Legendary equipment by removing it's value beyond the skinOpt 4: End of Dragon buyers get stat selection?This considerably devalues Legendary equipment by removing it's value beyond the skin.... and like it or not, the "Legendary Grind" is the main current driving force of the economy.

How about :Opt 1: You leverage current sources of second-BiS gear for testing out your builds with cheap exotic stat selectable armor boxes and easily acquired ascended trinkets.Opt 2: You make legendary gear.

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@"namelesswc.9217" said:Yeah not worth the time for me.

So we have this settled then.Anet won't make the change you suggest and you don't want to take the actions necessary to solve the "problem" on your side of the screen. If it's not worth your time, I doubt it's much of a problem.

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There are good points here as to why the system is fine as is and you have provided really helpful examples on how to experiment with builds cost effectively. I tend to feel the same way as the OP though. The build experimenting process in this game doesn't feel good to me. Arguably they need these gold sinks for the health of the game and I do not have a better way to suggest to replace this gold sink. This is why I have reluctantly decided to be okay with the way it is. I cope with it by letting my gaming buddy know I want to try a new build and need new equipment. The two of us farm together after that to make the grind more fun. I'm one of those people that rarely has more than five gold at any given time though so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

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@namelesswc.9217 said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Total estimate to change stats with kind of overblown estimates in worst case scenario is then around 200 gold or about 2 weeks of running T4 dailies, plus LW3 farming.

So about 200g or 2 weeks just to try out something different for a run to have some fun and then another 200g or 2 weeks to get your old build back. What if you notice in the middle of the run that it doesn't work out as planned and that other stat with more toughness is better? 2 Weeks more of t4 dailies? Someone who only plays on weekends might want to do that too?

Like i said. This is the MOST EXTREME case. It will never be 200 gold to change all that. This is only assuming the most expensive overblown costs on ascended gear with no materials and everything bought from TP, i mean, did you even read the rest of my post? There's tons of exotic gear that's free and stat selectable that you can try out. And you shouldn't be "testing builds" in the middle of CM100 fractals anyway because it won't work. There's meta builds for a reason.

And if you want the ability to mess around a lot - that's what legendaries are for.

Also, someone who only plays on weekeds rarely has the need to change builds so much, or even a desire, so that's not a good example. And if they do well, then GW2 just isn't the game for them now, is it? This is how it works in GW2.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:Ascended trinkets are ridiculously easy to come by. Investing some time in Bloodstone fen can give you 4 of your 6 trinkets (Two rings, one backpack, one amulet) a stat >reset option for the ridiculously low price of 100 unbound magic for all 4.

Sorry, i know it's off topic but you can use 2 of the same Blood ruby ring at once? Just curious. Or is this the case of one attuned and another not attuned ring?

But on topic - i agree with everything you said. It's ridiculously easy to experiment with builds in this game with exotic equipment and ascended free stuff from LW3. Most other games never let you switch builds so easy and you have to pay for stat resets etc.

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@Veprovina.4876 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Ascended trinkets are ridiculously easy to come by. Investing some time in Bloodstone fen can give you 4 of your 6 trinkets (Two rings, one backpack, one amulet) a stat >reset option for the ridiculously low price of 100 unbound magic for all 4.

Sorry, i know it's off topic but you can use 2 of the same Blood ruby ring at once? Just curious. Or
is this the case of one attuned and another not attuned ring?
This is Correct

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Ascended trinkets are ridiculously easy to come by. Investing some time in Bloodstone fen can give you 4 of your 6 trinkets (Two rings, one backpack, one amulet) a stat >reset option for the ridiculously low price of 100 unbound magic for all 4.

Sorry, i know it's off topic but you can use 2 of the same Blood ruby ring at once? Just curious. Or
is this the case of one attuned and another not attuned ring?
This is Correct

I see thanks. I can't believe i didn't think of that LOL i just used the Winterberry ring or another one for my stat change... WIll get another bloodstone one and attune it then! :smile: Way easier to change the stats too then, 100 unbound magic makes those ascended ones basically legendary, especially if you're not having infusions in them.

Also i edited another response here so i'll jsut repeat it in case...I agree with everything you said, it's ridiculously easy to experiment with exotic and free ascended items from LW3. Most other MMOs have you pay for stat changes way more than GW2 does. And since exotic is second best to ascended, and ascended is like 5-10% better, the difference is really negligable in determening if a build works. If it doesn't work on exotics, it won't work on ascended either.

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@"Super Hayes.6890" said:There are good points here as to why the system is fine as is and you have provided really helpful examples on how to experiment with builds cost effectively. I tend to feel the same way as the OP though. The build experimenting process in this game doesn't feel good to me. Arguably they need these gold sinks for the health of the game and I do not have a better way to suggest to replace this gold sink. This is why I have reluctantly decided to be okay with the way it is. I cope with it by letting my gaming buddy know I want to try a new build and need new equipment. The two of us farm together after that to make the grind more fun. I'm one of those people that rarely has more than five gold at any given time though so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

This is probably the best way to "deal" with the stat changes. Get a friend and just play. The gear will come naturally after.

You can also play WvW and get to bronze tier each week which will give you a free armor box with a piece of stat selectable exotic in it.

Finishing bronze tier takes like, a few hours at the worst case scenario if your server is last, you didn't finish wood week before and you're below rank 150.If you finish wood, next week getting the armor box is considerabely easier, and with time, the time required to finish bronze after rank 150 is reduced even further.You can also select Legacy armor and Legacy weapon reward tracks for another weapon or armor box with selectable stats, and with guild boosts and amulet enrichments, this also completes really fast. Then just follow a commander and you'll be swimming in stat selectable gear for free while in the meantime getting legendary components, some mats and other stuff. I know a lot of people don't like WvW, but it's really ridiculously easy to get exotics in WvW for basically nothing. You don't even have to play it that much per week if you're only interested in the armor boxes and reward tracks.

I don't know how to use the wiki calculator to calculate how much time it'll take to finish bronze tier, but you can try it yourself or someone else can calculate it for you. But it's not a huge time commintment, especially if you find an outnumbered map and just flip camps every few minutes. to keep your participation above T3.

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@"Veprovina.4876" said:Let's see...

https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~6-73227

This is how much it costs to convert your entire ascended armor set to one of the pricier stat combinations. About 40 gold.This is basically 2 dailies of running T3 or T4 fractals.

https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~4-72875

If you have 4 weapons, it's another 20 gold to change stats on them. One day of T3/T4 fractals.

Let's see, play WvW exclusively, make 2g per day on the dailies with the rest of one's drops being complete RNG...allows for stat swaps once a month...hmm...I see some inequity between game modes here...I guess "server pride" is the one prize/consolation that no other mode gets.

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@Sylvyn.4750 said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Let's see...

This is how much it costs to convert your entire ascended armor set to one of the pricier stat combinations. About 40 gold.This is basically 2 dailies of running T3 or T4 fractals.

If you have 4 weapons, it's another 20 gold to change stats on them. One day of T3/T4 fractals.

Let's see, play WvW exclusively, make 2g per day on the dailies with the rest of one's drops being complete RNG...allows for stat swaps once a month...hmm...I see some inequity between game modes here...I guess "server pride" is the one prize/consolation that no other mode gets.

If you play WvW exclusively, you have ton of literally free stat selectable exotic armors and weapons, plus grandmaster shards that you can use to buy ascended items if you want without crafting. Takes a while for ascended that way, but as it's already been established - the thread is about theorycrafting. You don't need ascended for theorycrafting, all you need is exotics. And as an exclusive WvW players, you should have stacks of armor and weapon boxes from bronze tier rewards and reward tracks.

So i don't see the problem really, or what your argument is all about.I'm also playing WvW more or less exclusively, and i've been able to gear another character like 2 or 3 times just by using the boxes i saved up, and i still have some leftover armors for other characters as well...

The point is - you shouldn't be using ascended for theorycrafting AT ALL, if a build doesn't work on exotics (which most are free), it will not work on ascended.The only thing OP can't do is theorycraft in the middle of CM100 fractal, and franky, that's good, you shouldn't be able to do something like that anyway in such hard content designed for only the most efficient builds.

You can play WvW with just exotics and runes/sigils just fine. Any bonus you get from ascended and infusions is not very large. Plus, if you find a good build that works on full exotics, it'll be sligtly better on ascended so if you like it that much, you can start getting ascended for it. But it's not required.

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@"Veprovina.4876" said:Like i said. This is the MOST EXTREME case. It will never be 200 gold to change all that. This is only assuming the most expensive overblown costs on ascended gear with no materials and everything bought from TP, i mean, did you even read the rest of my post? There's tons of exotic gear that's free and stat selectable that you can try out. And you shouldn't be "testing builds" in the middle of CM100 fractals anyway because it won't work. There's meta builds for a reason.

And if you want the ability to mess around a lot - that's what legendaries are for.

That example from me was a extreme example aswell. It doesn't matter if it cost 50g or 200g. It was to point out how ridiculous much it costs just to test a different stat and switch back to it.

All I'm saying is with the current system you cannot simply test and discard without legendary equipment. If you have free stat change just like free skill change or free trait change you would see more build variety in the game. Ease of use of different features have constantly been improved in gw2. Also respecting traits used to cost gold too in gw2 so making stat change free is a plausible option from my perspective. And it is worth the legendary devaluation in my opinion since it would make gameplay more interesting and diversivied.

However anet isn't like it used to be and I'm not even sure if they currently have the resources to make changes like that. Now it's just grindy content after grindy content.

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Its not really that hard to "experiment" gear but I suspect most end up just mathing it out first before giving it a shot. The reason "people don't experiment outside of the meta" is more to do with people trusting someone else already did all the math and testing and less to do with the cost. Some people don't have hours upon hours of free time and just want a build that works efficiently so when they logout they can go back to real life responsibilities like raising a family.

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@namelesswc.9217 said:However anet isn't like it used to be and I'm not even sure if they currently have the resources to make changes like that. Now it's just grindy content after grindy content.

That's hardly a fair assessment considering you already admitted you barely play the game anyways. I mean, if you only play once a week ... even logging in is a grind. The fact remains that while there are costs, the costs are dependent on the player and how much they want to fiddle. Again, as it's been pointed out ... you can investigate your builds without spending a dime to test them. It's probably the BETTER approach for someone who plays as little as you indicated.

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I am not opposed to more sources of exotic stat-selectable armor, weapons, and trinkets. I think the current system works out great for established players. There are a variety of sources for ascended and exotic stat-selectable gear. When you have some resources to call upon and play a variety of content, testing builds isn't prohibitive. But it could be easier for newer players, I think.

A better template system that allows some gear storage for different builds and actually allows you to swap entire builds to specific presets in a single key would help, also. I heard they may be working on something like that, but with ANet who knows?

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@namelesswc.9217 said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Like i said. This is the
MOST EXTREME
case. It will
never
be 200 gold to change all that. This is only assuming the most expensive overblown costs on ascended gear with
no materials
and everything bought from TP, i mean, did you even read the rest of my post? There's tons of exotic gear that's free and stat selectable that you can try out. And you shouldn't be "testing builds" in the middle of CM100 fractals anyway because
it
won't
work
. There's meta builds for a reason.

And if you want the ability to mess around a lot - that's what legendaries are for.

That example from me was a extreme example aswell. It doesn't matter if it cost 50g or 200g. It was to point out how ridiculous much it costs just to test a different stat and switch back to it.

All I'm saying is with the current system you cannot simply test and discard without legendary equipment. If you have free stat change just like free skill change or free trait change you would see more build variety in the game. Ease of use of different features have constantly been improved in gw2. Also respecting traits used to cost gold too in gw2 so making stat change free is a plausible option from my perspective. And it is worth the legendary devaluation in my opinion since it would make gameplay more interesting and diversivied.

However anet isn't like it used to be and I'm not even sure if they currently have the resources to make changes like that. Now it's just grindy content after grindy content.

There IS a difference between 50 gold and 200 gold. It's 150 gold difference.

Fitrst, you're still ignoring what people are telling you. You should't be theorycrafting and testing builds on ascended gear. That's not what it's for, Ascended is designed to be more "permanent" solution to work towards once you're happy with your exotic build. It's designed that way, and it's costly for that very reason. They don't want you to theorycraft on ascended without a gold sink.

Second, you think there would be more build variety if people could change stats whenever they want? Ask people with full legendaries how many times they change stats? I did 2 of them and you know what i did? I converted my ascended Minstrel's armor to legendary, equipped it and selected Minstrel's again... People mostly have legendaries to share amongst characters if they have many, not so that they can change their stats mid CM100 fractal and "try stuff out" or have more build variety. People have "tried stuff out" for ages on exotics, ascendeds and legendaries, and came to the conclusion that having full berserker's on X raid and fractal is the most efficient DPS to complete that raid/fractal efficiently compared to any other tested combinations and that's what a "meta" is. Having free build variety won't change the meta, nor will it let you complete the hardest content how you like, and it ESPECIALLY won't let you PUG into raid groups that are expecting meta builds. Because that's what meta is - most efficient tactic available. Even if you could change stats mid combat, berserker's/viper's would still be most efficient because of the raw damage they bring so "build variety" is a moot point because it's not dependant on your gear, it's dependant on the encounters that require a certain tactic. And since bosses are timed in raids, DPS is king. The only thing that could change that is if Anet makes some attacks unblockable party wipes if you're in full berserker with no defense, so then the meta would probably be Commander's or Wanderer's for power builds or Trailblazer for condi. And it still wouldn't change if they allow free theorycrafting. Then everyone would just expect trailblazer's instead of viper's.

Third, legendary value has nothing to do with build diversity, it's just a skin/convenience thing for alt characters or multiple builds on 1 character. I'm running Minstrel's chrono and Viper's mirage. legendary helps there but is extremely not required as i can just use exotics for that for free and be fine with it. Most people are like that.

Bottom line is, you don't understand the game you're playing i'm afraid. That's ok, nothing wrong with that, but it's clear from your comments that you don't know why something works the way it does. Like confusing build variety with having free stat changes.

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@namelesswc.9217 said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Like i said. This is the
MOST EXTREME
case. It will
never
be 200 gold to change all that. This is only assuming the most expensive overblown costs on ascended gear with
no materials
and everything bought from TP, i mean, did you even read the rest of my post? There's tons of exotic gear that's free and stat selectable that you can try out. And you shouldn't be "testing builds" in the middle of CM100 fractals anyway because
it
won't
work
. There's meta builds for a reason.

And if you want the ability to mess around a lot - that's what legendaries are for.

That example from me was a extreme example aswell. It doesn't matter if it cost 50g or 200g. It was to point out how ridiculous much it costs just to test a different stat and switch back to it.

All I'm saying is with the current system you cannot simply test and discard without legendary equipment. If you have free stat change just like free skill change or free trait change you would see more build variety in the game. Ease of use of different features have constantly been improved in gw2. Also respecting traits used to cost gold too in gw2 so making stat change free is a plausible option from my perspective. And it is worth the legendary devaluation in my opinion since it would make gameplay more interesting and diversivied.

However anet isn't like it used to be and I'm not even sure if they currently have the resources to make changes like that. Now it's just grindy content after grindy content.

It did not cost to respec traits ever in gw2.You had to unlock to be able to place the traits as a one time fee per character tho.

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@Veprovina.4876 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Ascended trinkets are ridiculously easy to come by. Investing some time in Bloodstone fen can give you 4 of your 6 trinkets (Two rings, one backpack, one amulet) a stat >reset option for the ridiculously low price of 100 unbound magic for all 4.

Sorry, i know it's off topic but you can use 2 of the same Blood ruby ring at once? Just curious. Or
is this the case of one attuned and another not attuned ring?
This is Correct

I see thanks. I can't believe i didn't think of that LOL i just used the Winterberry ring or another one for my stat change... WIll get another bloodstone one and attune it then! :smile: Way easier to change the stats too then, 100 unbound magic makes those ascended ones basically legendary, especially if you're not having infusions in them.Here's another fun fact.Attuning a S3 or S4 currency ring will also reset it's stats.
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Meta, what is that? Can I eat it?Jokes aside I've never ever used meta builds on purpose. There is no point aiming for something I wouldn't enjoy playing or couldn't reach the necessary skill level to pull off.People who feel the need to use meta builds others created are just too boring or impatient to experiment.If anything the biggest motivation I had to make my own builds was to save on gold. If swapping gear/stats was free I would not have discovered half the builds I use now.

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@Linken.6345 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:Like i said. This is the
MOST EXTREME
case. It will
never
be 200 gold to change all that. This is only assuming the most expensive overblown costs on ascended gear with
no materials
and everything bought from TP, i mean, did you even read the rest of my post? There's tons of exotic gear that's free and stat selectable that you can try out. And you shouldn't be "testing builds" in the middle of CM100 fractals anyway because
it
won't
work
. There's meta builds for a reason.

And if you want the ability to mess around a lot - that's what legendaries are for.

That example from me was a extreme example aswell. It doesn't matter if it cost 50g or 200g. It was to point out how ridiculous much it costs just to test a different stat and switch back to it.

All I'm saying is with the current system you cannot simply test and discard without legendary equipment. If you have free stat change just like free skill change or free trait change you would see more build variety in the game. Ease of use of different features have constantly been improved in gw2. Also respecting traits used to cost gold too in gw2 so making stat change free is a plausible option from my perspective. And it is worth the legendary devaluation in my opinion since it would make gameplay more interesting and diversivied.

However anet isn't like it used to be and I'm not even sure if they currently have the resources to make changes like that. Now it's just grindy content after grindy content.

It did not cost to respec traits ever in gw2.You had to unlock to be able to place the traits as a one time fee per character tho.

There was a respec option, i think it cost spirit shards or something...

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@mindcircus.1506 said:Ascended trinkets are ridiculously easy to come by. Investing some time in Bloodstone fen can give you 4 of your 6 trinkets (Two rings, one backpack, one amulet) a stat >reset option for the ridiculously low price of 100 unbound magic for all 4.

Sorry, i know it's off topic but you can use 2 of the same Blood ruby ring at once? Just curious. Or
is this the case of one attuned and another not attuned ring?
This is Correct

I see thanks. I can't believe i didn't think of that LOL i just used the Winterberry ring or another one for my stat change... WIll get another bloodstone one and attune it then! :smile: Way easier to change the stats too then, 100 unbound magic makes those ascended ones basically legendary, especially if you're not having infusions in them.Here's another fun fact.Attuning a S3 or S4 currency ring will also reset it's stats.

Yeah, that i know. Handy for winterberry and other rings... :smile:

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@namelesswc.9217 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Stat swapping, outside of legendary, is a gold sink. I think that's by design. I don't see the pressing need to alter it.

The result is that players don't swap unless their the meta build is suggesting a different stat.

The ability to tryout otherwise never used stats or weird stat combinations or sigils is withheld for players with legendary equipment.

There is this cool wintersday sigil which launches snowballs on foes. Who wants to try that out if you have to buy a new 5g sigil of force or 9g sigil of malice after throwing some snowballs?

Snowball is amazing for a confusion chrono build :)And to answer the TLDR : Lazy ppl won't try anything.

I'm a casual, I play here and there with long break. I tested and still do many MANY build for most class, lot of them to solo hard thing.If you're afraid to "waste" gold, then, yes, don't do it, but then don't complain.This game is incredibly easy to farm and get money to try out thing. I mean dude, you don't even need to buy/farm multiple gear each time you want to try another build !Have you ever play another mmorpg to complain about this in THIS mmo ? I highly doubt.

The only rune who was stupidly expensive was the torment one, and even then it took me just 1 day to get the gold for them.. How is that long or difficult ?

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@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:Like i said. This is the
MOST EXTREME
case. It will
never
be 200 gold to change all that. This is only assuming the most expensive overblown costs on ascended gear with
no materials
and everything bought from TP, i mean, did you even read the rest of my post? There's tons of exotic gear that's free and stat selectable that you can try out. And you shouldn't be "testing builds" in the middle of CM100 fractals anyway because
it
won't
work
. There's meta builds for a reason.

And if you want the ability to mess around a lot - that's what legendaries are for.

That example from me was a extreme example aswell. It doesn't matter if it cost 50g or 200g. It was to point out how ridiculous much it costs just to test a different stat and switch back to it.

All I'm saying is with the current system you cannot simply test and discard without legendary equipment. If you have free stat change just like free skill change or free trait change you would see more build variety in the game. Ease of use of different features have constantly been improved in gw2. Also respecting traits used to cost gold too in gw2 so making stat change free is a plausible option from my perspective. And it is worth the legendary devaluation in my opinion since it would make gameplay more interesting and diversivied.

However anet isn't like it used to be and I'm not even sure if they currently have the resources to make changes like that. Now it's just grindy content after grindy content.

It did not cost to respec traits ever in gw2.You had to unlock to be able to place the traits as a one time fee per character tho.

There was a respec option, i think it cost spirit shards or something...

@mindcircus.1506 said:Ascended trinkets are ridiculously easy to come by. Investing some time in Bloodstone fen can give you 4 of your 6 trinkets (Two rings, one backpack, one amulet) a stat >reset option for the ridiculously low price of 100 unbound magic for all 4.

Sorry, i know it's off topic but you can use 2 of the same Blood ruby ring at once? Just curious. Or
is this the case of one attuned and another not attuned ring?
This is Correct

I see thanks. I can't believe i didn't think of that LOL i just used the Winterberry ring or another one for my stat change... WIll get another bloodstone one and attune it then! :smile: Way easier to change the stats too then, 100 unbound magic makes those ascended ones basically legendary, especially if you're not having infusions in them.Here's another fun fact.Attuning a S3 or S4 currency ring will also reset it's stats.

Yeah, that i know. Handy for winterberry and other rings... :smile:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Say_Goodbye_to_Armor_Repair_Costs_and_Hello_to_Free_Trait_Resets

Damn your right, Im getting old.

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@Orack.9756 said:

@"kharmin.7683" said:Stat swapping, outside of legendary, is a gold sink. I think that's by design. I don't see the pressing need to alter it.

The result is that players don't swap unless their the meta build is suggesting a different stat.

The ability to tryout otherwise never used stats or weird stat combinations or sigils is withheld for players with legendary equipment.

There is this cool wintersday sigil which launches snowballs on foes. Who wants to try that out if you have to buy a new 5g sigil of force or 9g sigil of malice after throwing some snowballs?

Snowball is amazing for a confusion chrono build :)And to answer the TLDR : Lazy ppl won't try anything.

I'm a casual, I play here and there with long break. I tested and still do many MANY build for most class, lot of them to solo hard thing.If you're afraid to "waste" gold, then, yes, don't do it, but then don't complain.This game is incredibly easy to farm and get money to try out thing. I mean dude, you don't even need to buy/farm multiple gear each time you want to try another build !Have you ever play another mmorpg to complain about this in THIS mmo ? I highly doubt.

The only rune who was stupidly expensive was the torment one, and even then it took me just 1 day to get the gold for them.. How is that long or difficult ?

The tormenting rune is expensive because it's meta for Revs currently. Which just proves the point that, if OP wants to experiment with non conventional non menta builds, it's going to be way cheaper than that. Most runes are like, 2-5 silver or whatever, very experiment friendly. And if you who calls himself casual can experiment, then that's /thread right there and really the proof that it's easy to change builds for everyone.

And since giving free stat resets to everything won't change the meta, it is what it is.

I mean, you can have multiple armor sets. One meta set, then get exotics for experimentation, no need to change the meta set, just put it in the bank, have fun with exotics, then swap back to meta set when needed.

So yeah, i agree with you, the game is very casual friendly. Legendaries are not, but they're not really needed, they're just a convenience.

@Linken.6345 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:Like i said. This is the
MOST EXTREME
case. It will
never
be 200 gold to change all that. This is only assuming the most expensive overblown costs on ascended gear with
no materials
and everything bought from TP, i mean, did you even read the rest of my post? There's tons of exotic gear that's free and stat selectable that you can try out. And you shouldn't be "testing builds" in the middle of CM100 fractals anyway because
it
won't
work
. There's meta builds for a reason.

And if you want the ability to mess around a lot - that's what legendaries are for.

That example from me was a extreme example aswell. It doesn't matter if it cost 50g or 200g. It was to point out how ridiculous much it costs just to test a different stat and switch back to it.

All I'm saying is with the current system you cannot simply test and discard without legendary equipment. If you have free stat change just like free skill change or free trait change you would see more build variety in the game. Ease of use of different features have constantly been improved in gw2. Also respecting traits used to cost gold too in gw2 so making stat change free is a plausible option from my perspective. And it is worth the legendary devaluation in my opinion since it would make gameplay more interesting and diversivied.

However anet isn't like it used to be and I'm not even sure if they currently have the resources to make changes like that. Now it's just grindy content after grindy content.

It did not cost to respec traits ever in gw2.You had to unlock to be able to place the traits as a one time fee per character tho.

There was a respec option, i think it cost spirit shards or something...

@mindcircus.1506 said:Ascended trinkets are ridiculously easy to come by. Investing some time in Bloodstone fen can give you 4 of your 6 trinkets (Two rings, one backpack, one amulet) a stat >reset option for the ridiculously low price of 100 unbound magic for all 4.

Sorry, i know it's off topic but you can use 2 of the same Blood ruby ring at once? Just curious. Or
is this the case of one attuned and another not attuned ring?
This is Correct

I see thanks. I can't believe i didn't think of that LOL i just used the Winterberry ring or another one for my stat change... WIll get another bloodstone one and attune it then! :smile: Way easier to change the stats too then, 100 unbound magic makes those ascended ones basically legendary, especially if you're not having infusions in them.Here's another fun fact.Attuning a S3 or S4 currency ring will also reset it's stats.

Yeah, that i know. Handy for winterberry and other rings... :smile:

kitten your right, Im getting old.

Ah you found it! I was searching for that, and the original trait reset cost and only found this:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Instant_Trait_Reset

So it was a gem store item, meaning you couldn't reset your traits in game maybe? Or not as often? I forgot what the system was, maybe someone can link it and remind me. But yeah, traits were semi-permanent in the beginning. And worked differently, you had to unlock trait tiers, and stuff...

Here's the old trait tab:XTo0Dy0h.jpg

Ah, the memories. :tongue:Most people didn't even bother with grandmaster traits becasue there was a finite number of trait points (now hero points), and you couldn't unlock everyting, but could mix and match.

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Except for high level fractals all the experimenting can be done with exotics and the only reason high level fractals can't be done is because of AR. Making AR an account bound thing would solve that problem as well. If this is for fractals you don't really need to craft that much anyway. For the most part you'll be crafting just the coat and leggings since the rest of the pieces drop relatively frequently from fractals.

As for upgrades ... there is https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endless_Upgrade_Extractor_Contract . It is pricey but that is around the same price at a set of legendary runes and this would cover sigils as well.

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@Khisanth.2948 said:Except for high level fractals all the experimenting can be done with exotics and the only reason high level fractals can't be done is because of AR. Making AR an account bound thing would solve that problem as well. If this is for fractals you don't really need to craft that much anyway.Or we can just accept that the hardest 5 man content in the game is not an appropriate place for testing. We can leverage existing easier content that doesnt require max AR to test in exotic gear (t1-2 fractals, explorable dungeons, full CM DRMs) and get a proper idea.Making AR account bound brings with it some issues that would likely cause some real pain to those players regularly playing t4's.

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@lokh.2695 said:

@"namelesswc.9217" said:Yeah not worth the time for me.

So we have this settled then.Anet won't make the change you suggest and you don't want to take the actions necessary to solve the "problem" on your side of the screen. If it's not worth your time, I doubt it's much of a problem.

I 100% agree with @lokh.2695 . The discussion essentially ends here.

There is a way to achieve the cost-free swapping you desire in the game, it just has a threshold price you are not willing to pay. That's like walking into a store, seeing a bottle of water, but not wanting to pay three bucks for it; instead you walk up to the clerk and say "hey man, access to potable water is a human right. Gimme this bottle for free."

You would be right about water being a resource everyone should have. But at that store, if you want a bottle of water from their cooler, you pay the price that store charges for it.

You might be right about low-cost re-gearing being an essential part of MMOs (which I would disagree with, but that's another discussion). But in GW2, if you want literally free stat swapping, you have to pay the price of making legendaries.

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