Class Balance

[Arheundel.6451]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I love the absurd ideas that classes devs play don't get nerfs ... name ONE class that has never been nerfed.

The idea is that the professions played by the devs don't get nerfed nearly as much...

Except you have to make lots of absurd assumptions to conclude that to begin with. Devs aren't special ... they choose to play classes just like you, me, other people ... so the idea that the class that gets the most of fewest nerfs because 'devs' is just nonsense. They put their pants on one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They are likely have the same statistical spread of class playing as any other player in this game.

We can say that once we see 3 devs playing an ele or mesmer during their streams...and not seeing 3 of them on necro..so far there have been no streams with anything but necro/warrior and guardian.....

who happen to have the most build diversity across the spectrum

...such coincidence

OK that don't mean nothing. Again, that's some nonsensical thinking that because you don't see a stream with class X ... devs don't play it so therefore, it's nerfville for that class. In addition, we aren't talking about build diversity ... we are talking about balance. Seems to me you're just talking to be disagreeable because you got an axe to grind.

Your whole argument sits on baseless assumptions married to whiteknighting . It has been stated before by the devs themselves that during balance meeting each profession receives a number of feedbacks from each dev, the more of them play a certain class...the more feedback it receive and this is the officil statement, now to the analysis given in this thread : that feedback will be biased at subsconscious level where a certain skill should be nerfed by 60%..it will be nerfed by 20% because that feedback will come from a dev actually playing the class..it won't come from the forum circus where Timmy , who is sitting at silver rank , lost to an ele because he spent half match hugging it thinking he wouldn't die...then Timmy proceed to come on the forum and whine how ele is OP...stuff like that. Now where the dev doesn't play the class then really...Timmy will see his wish realized....

Sadly they edited the video where @karl was dieing to Chieftain while showcasing Tempest......and how surprised he was about the low HP of the class

[Obtena.7952]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I love the absurd ideas that classes devs play don't get nerfs ... name ONE class that has never been nerfed.

The idea is that the professions played by the devs don't get nerfed nearly as much...

Except you have to make lots of absurd assumptions to conclude that to begin with. Devs aren't special ... they choose to play classes just like you, me, other people ... so the idea that the class that gets the most of fewest nerfs because 'devs' is just nonsense. They put their pants on one leg at a time, just like everyone else. They are likely have the same statistical spread of class playing as any other player in this game.

We can say that once we see 3 devs playing an ele or mesmer during their streams...and not seeing 3 of them on necro..so far there have been no streams with anything but necro/warrior and guardian.....

who happen to have the most build diversity across the spectrum

...such coincidence

OK that don't mean nothing. Again, that's some nonsensical thinking that because you don't see a stream with class X ... devs don't play it so therefore, it's nerfville for that class. In addition, we aren't talking about build diversity ... we are talking about balance. Seems to me you're just talking to be disagreeable because you got an axe to grind.

Your whole argument sits on baseless assumptions married to whiteknighting .

At least it's not based on absurd assumptions about what classes devs play.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Seeing a dev on a certain class. Reasoning that this might be the reason one specific build of that class overperforms (which it doesn't btw.).

Oh dear...

Yeah DH in ratings where majority of people play isn't overperforming at all, good one. DH is just stupid design and needs to be changed or if that is not possible currently, nerfed. It is very unfun to play against and bad for new/learning players.

Lol un fun to play against, I love reading players writing this. Thief is also unfun to play against, mirage,a power splbr when it could actually do damage, holo, necro and its spec, revs(especially condi), renegade, druid and so on so on, the games gotten to a point thru bad balancing that not only are most classes unfun to fight but thier unfun to play as well. Players helped anet get it to this point as well with their incessant constant biased crys.

In PoF release game wasn't fun yes because of insane power creep but right now Warrior (damage one), Holo, Necro, Mirage, Thief (apart from Deadeye) are all fairly balanced and fun to play against. The most toxic rev build is shiro builds not condi, condi rev actually dies now and plays damage traits in corruption instead of full resistance spam, but I guess here comes low elo mentality that anything that is condi is not skillful even though it has more counter play than power builds. You know rev is overtuned when bad players do well on it which seems to be the case at the moment. Saying balancing has been bad is also just wrong game has been getting progressively better after PoF launch disaster and CMC has more braincells than to listen to unreasonable mains crying on forums why their class is weak and how other class is OP.

Power warrior is fun to play against for all the wrong reasons and unfun to play for the same reasons. Power Warrior has been kitten so hard of course their fun to fight in a way, u get cc'd who cares u took 0 damage even though u made a mistake and didn't avoid a easy tell and predictable skill and u have forever to stunbreak before the second hit of 100 blades goes off OR u simply avoid the warrior's eviscerate and warrior becomes a easy target. Ever since the feb patch warrior has become a melee class that is of little threat in most situations and a bubble bot in wvw. Fun....

Strength spellbreaker mains were spoiled because their class was so easy to do well on. Everything did damage great sustain, perma 25 might for more damage, great defensive capability. Now Warrior actually takes great skill to play. You don't have insane damage from might and sustain from signet and you cant just chain cc kill because cc doesn't do damage. Strength Warrior is not bad atm, if you feel like its bad its probably you.

I can't help but lol at this horrible take from someone that couldn't handle the most telegraphed class in the game. Warriors damage was absolutely gutted and still has the requirements of always outplaying your opponent to even hope to build any momentum, let alone actually close a kill, and you think it's alright? Warrior has no way of actually doing anything to someone with even average reaction timing to its super obvious burst setups and is relegated to only punishing the most obvious of mistakes that you're not even guaranteed to be presented with. Take a competent player on any class vs warrior and you're going to have an extremely rough time finding openings to actually start your offense when you're at the mercy of their mistakes, not the warriors actual skill. You still have to chain CC people to kill them because you won't land anything otherwise, what are you on about? If you're struggling vs strength spb, then it's probably you.

warrior had to outplay ONLY the builds that were equally broken as warrior was, if you even thought of trying something without protection or toughness warrior just ran you the kitten down( I used to kitten around with wizard cmirage pre feb )and my oh my its not about being telegraphed its about everything dealing damage, legit been hit for 5200 by a dodge or 11k from gs3 ( 8s cd evade skill btw )add in constant passive healing, rampage, and access to quickness and it kitten on anything that was as busted as it was.

Warrior has to have hard hitting skills because it can't hit consistently unless you're CC'd or standing around in melee range. Even now it's really no different. Everything deals damage except for CC and we've been forced into zerker amulet with fighter instead of demo/strength. Inconsistent damage, telegraphing, and being more or less melee only are warrior's weaknesses. A majority of my attacks won't land on a running aboutfaced opponent because of the range gap.

what warrior is now and what was pre-feb are different things. Its fine to have strong hitting skills, its not fine where the weakest skill you have can deal over 4k dmg, and shit like this was a reason why everyone ran crap ton of toughness and protection, as I said, my no-prot, no toughness mesmer was REGURARELY hit for 4k dmg by dodge alone, and this is not counting stupid shit like getting hit by a rock for 15k+ dmg, I simply said that warrior was equally broken to other meta specs and equally a problem to the games balance

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Tycura.1982 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Seeing a dev on a certain class. Reasoning that this might be the reason one specific build of that class overperforms (which it doesn't btw.).

Oh dear...

Yeah DH in ratings where majority of people play isn't overperforming at all, good one. DH is just stupid design and needs to be changed or if that is not possible currently, nerfed. It is very unfun to play against and bad for new/learning players.

Lol un fun to play against, I love reading players writing this. Thief is also unfun to play against, mirage,a power splbr when it could actually do damage, holo, necro and its spec, revs(especially condi), renegade, druid and so on so on, the games gotten to a point thru bad balancing that not only are most classes unfun to fight but thier unfun to play as well. Players helped anet get it to this point as well with their incessant constant biased crys.

In PoF release game wasn't fun yes because of insane power creep but right now Warrior (damage one), Holo, Necro, Mirage, Thief (apart from Deadeye) are all fairly balanced and fun to play against. The most toxic rev build is shiro builds not condi, condi rev actually dies now and plays damage traits in corruption instead of full resistance spam, but I guess here comes low elo mentality that anything that is condi is not skillful even though it has more counter play than power builds. You know rev is overtuned when bad players do well on it which seems to be the case at the moment. Saying balancing has been bad is also just wrong game has been getting progressively better after PoF launch disaster and CMC has more braincells than to listen to unreasonable mains crying on forums why their class is weak and how other class is OP.

Power warrior is fun to play against for all the wrong reasons and unfun to play for the same reasons. Power Warrior has been kitten so hard of course their fun to fight in a way, u get cc'd who cares u took 0 damage even though u made a mistake and didn't avoid a easy tell and predictable skill and u have forever to stunbreak before the second hit of 100 blades goes off OR u simply avoid the warrior's eviscerate and warrior becomes a easy target. Ever since the feb patch warrior has become a melee class that is of little threat in most situations and a bubble bot in wvw. Fun....

Strength spellbreaker mains were spoiled because their class was so easy to do well on. Everything did damage great sustain, perma 25 might for more damage, great defensive capability. Now Warrior actually takes great skill to play. You don't have insane damage from might and sustain from signet and you cant just chain cc kill because cc doesn't do damage. Strength Warrior is not bad atm, if you feel like its bad its probably you.

I can't help but lol at this horrible take from someone that couldn't handle the most telegraphed class in the game. Warriors damage was absolutely gutted and still has the requirements of always outplaying your opponent to even hope to build any momentum, let alone actually close a kill, and you think it's alright? Warrior has no way of actually doing anything to someone with even average reaction timing to its super obvious burst setups and is relegated to only punishing the most obvious of mistakes that you're not even guaranteed to be presented with. Take a competent player on any class vs warrior and you're going to have an extremely rough time finding openings to actually start your offense when you're at the mercy of their mistakes, not the warriors actual skill. You still have to chain CC people to kill them because you won't land anything otherwise, what are you on about? If you're struggling vs strength spb, then it's probably you.

warrior had to outplay ONLY the builds that were equally broken as warrior was, if you even thought of trying something without protection or toughness warrior just ran you the kitten down( I used to kitten around with wizard cmirage pre feb )and my oh my its not about being telegraphed its about everything dealing damage, legit been hit for 5200 by a dodge or 11k from gs3 ( 8s cd evade skill btw )add in constant passive healing, rampage, and access to quickness and it kitten on anything that was as busted as it was.

Warrior has to have hard hitting skills because it can't hit consistently unless you're CC'd or standing around in melee range. Even now it's really no different. Everything deals damage except for CC and we've been forced into zerker amulet with fighter instead of demo/strength. Inconsistent damage, telegraphing, and being more or less melee only are warrior's weaknesses. A majority of my attacks won't land on a running aboutfaced opponent because of the range gap.

what warrior is now and what was pre-feb are different things. Its fine to have strong hitting skills, its not fine where the weakest skill you have can deal over 4k dmg, and kitten like this was a reason why everyone ran kitten ton of toughness and protection, as I said, my no-prot, no toughness mesmer was REGURARELY hit for 4k dmg by dodge alone, and this is not counting stupid kitten like getting hit by a rock for 15k+ dmg, I simply said that warrior was equally broken to other meta specs and equally a problem to the games balance

4k on dodge was silly as was the damage all skills did while in rampage. I also agree with anets take on the to traits in defense line as they were to strong to be passive but what anet did was lazy and should have been handled far better regarding those traits. Simply nerfing damage on roll and rampage's damage to be in line with the current post feb patch damage woulda been enough along with less of a nerf to healing and might so the mmr trait and healing sig were still worth taking.That all said warrior did not need its healing and damage potential gutted as far as it received via might, healing reductions over multiple avenues throughout the class nor did all the damage need to be removed from cc. Having a skill like bullscharge doing 2k without chance to crit would have sufficed, same for all of warriors cc. Warrior now is the least threatening class in melee range due to these changes and it's the games supposed melee specialist hence the new warrior meta is a dealbreaker build. I'm sry but any player that thinks warrior is in a good spot given the class type really shouldn't be weighing in on balance, The reason the games in such a mess and is close to dead is because anet for some reason listens to these so called expert balance forum'ers when making changes to their game. It's really worked well for them eh.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@McPero.3287 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:Seeing a dev on a certain class. Reasoning that this might be the reason one specific build of that class overperforms (which it doesn't btw.).

Oh dear...

Yeah DH in ratings where majority of people play isn't overperforming at all, good one. DH is just stupid design and needs to be changed or if that is not possible currently, nerfed. It is very unfun to play against and bad for new/learning players.

Lol un fun to play against, I love reading players writing this. Thief is also unfun to play against, mirage,a power splbr when it could actually do damage, holo, necro and its spec, revs(especially condi), renegade, druid and so on so on, the games gotten to a point thru bad balancing that not only are most classes unfun to fight but thier unfun to play as well. Players helped anet get it to this point as well with their incessant constant biased crys.

In PoF release game wasn't fun yes because of insane power creep but right now Warrior (damage one), Holo, Necro, Mirage, Thief (apart from Deadeye) are all fairly balanced and fun to play against. The most toxic rev build is shiro builds not condi, condi rev actually dies now and plays damage traits in corruption instead of full resistance spam, but I guess here comes low elo mentality that anything that is condi is not skillful even though it has more counter play than power builds. You know rev is overtuned when bad players do well on it which seems to be the case at the moment. Saying balancing has been bad is also just wrong game has been getting progressively better after PoF launch disaster and CMC has more braincells than to listen to unreasonable mains crying on forums why their class is weak and how other class is OP.

Power warrior is fun to play against for all the wrong reasons and unfun to play for the same reasons. Power Warrior has been kitten so hard of course their fun to fight in a way, u get cc'd who cares u took 0 damage even though u made a mistake and didn't avoid a easy tell and predictable skill and u have forever to stunbreak before the second hit of 100 blades goes off OR u simply avoid the warrior's eviscerate and warrior becomes a easy target. Ever since the feb patch warrior has become a melee class that is of little threat in most situations and a bubble bot in wvw. Fun....

Strength spellbreaker mains were spoiled because their class was so easy to do well on. Everything did damage great sustain, perma 25 might for more damage, great defensive capability. Now Warrior actually takes great skill to play. You don't have insane damage from might and sustain from signet and you cant just chain cc kill because cc doesn't do damage. Strength Warrior is not bad atm, if you feel like its bad its probably you.

I can't help but lol at this horrible take from someone that couldn't handle the most telegraphed class in the game. Warriors damage was absolutely gutted and still has the requirements of always outplaying your opponent to even hope to build any momentum, let alone actually close a kill, and you think it's alright? Warrior has no way of actually doing anything to someone with even average reaction timing to its super obvious burst setups and is relegated to only punishing the most obvious of mistakes that you're not even guaranteed to be presented with. Take a competent player on any class vs warrior and you're going to have an extremely rough time finding openings to actually start your offense when you're at the mercy of their mistakes, not the warriors actual skill. You still have to chain CC people to kill them because you won't land anything otherwise, what are you on about? If you're struggling vs strength spb, then it's probably you.

warrior had to outplay ONLY the builds that were equally broken as warrior was, if you even thought of trying something without protection or toughness warrior just ran you the kitten down( I used to kitten around with wizard cmirage pre feb )and my oh my its not about being telegraphed its about everything dealing damage, legit been hit for 5200 by a dodge or 11k from gs3 ( 8s cd evade skill btw )add in constant passive healing, rampage, and access to quickness and it kitten on anything that was as busted as it was.

I'm not talking about pre Feb, I'm talking currently.