The guys that shout „HACKER“ 24/7 are getting mad annoying

[GuriGashi.5617]

All you see on this subforum when browsing through are people that cry about botting and hacking when in reality they most likely just got destroyed in a match and are looking for excuses.

I am not saying hackers or bots don‘t exist, they do, but not in the quantity people are describing. I have played through at least the past 7 seasons on EU servers without a break - out of all the games I only got one Mirage bot in a 2v2 Mini Season match right after the February patch and never again afterwards, because bots logically won‘t place really high in ranked and at a certain division there is none of them left. During this time I also didn’t see one hacker as far as I could tell - nothing like the flying Warriors in Wooden Potatoes hacker video or a Thief porting around the entire map like in Valluns hacker video

What I saw though were salty people accusing each other of hacking through chat in the most ridiculous ways when they started to lose, to the point where a random Reaper teammate got accused of speed hacking by some Guardian just a few days ago, when Reapers are actually known to run Speed Runes with Spectral Walk. He had to literally wait for him at his spawn, let him come out and showed him how Speed Runes work to just make that guy stop crying in chat. While the whole conversation was amusing to follow, it is also starting to get extremely annoying at this point. I am not sure how ArenaNets data looks like, but I wouldn‘t be surprised if 9 out of 10 people who get reported for hacking actually did nothing wrong and got accused wrongly by a salty player - I would be interested to know

And while we are at it - ArenaNet where is that next Balance Patch at?

[Megametzler.5729]

@"snoow.1694" said:(...)What I saw though was salty people accusing each other in chat of hacking in the most ridiculous ways when they started to lose to the point where I saw a Reaper teammate getting accused by some Guardian of speed hacking just a few days ago, when Reapers are actually known to run Speed Runes with Spectral Walk.(...)

This is my experience as well. :lol: I don't pvp that often anymore and avoid deathmatch, but usually people don't know skills and say someone is hacking or accuse newbies of being bots. So far, when I texted an accused "bot", they usually replied and were quite nice. Pretty good AI then, I guess. :wink:

Maybe it is different in lower ratings or in NA, no idea.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@"snoow.1694" said:(...)What I saw though was salty people accusing each other in chat of hacking in the most ridiculous ways when they started to lose to the point where I saw a Reaper teammate getting accused by some Guardian of speed hacking just a few days ago, when Reapers are actually known to run Speed Runes with Spectral Walk.(...)

This is my experience as well. :lol: I don't pvp that often anymore and avoid deathmatch, but usually people don't know skills and say someone is hacking or accuse newbies of being bots. So far, when I texted an accused "bot", they usually replied and were quite nice. Pretty good AI then, I guess. :wink:

Maybe it is different in lower ratings or in NA, no idea.

Couldn‘t agree more Megametzler :#

[TrOtskY.5927]

People are justly paranoid about this, because there are a lot of bots. If the botting problem was actually taken care of, this thread complaining about complaining, could never have even come into existence.

So maybe think about that before victim blaming next time? Thanks.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@TrOtskY.5927 said:People are justly paranoid about this, because there are a lot of bots. If the botting problem was actually taken care of, this thread complaining about complaining, could never have even come into existence.

So maybe think about that before victim blaming next time? Thanks.

„Botting problem“ is what you say without having any numbers - most players that place higher than Bronze won‘t probably ever encounter bots, that is the first flaw in your argument. It has also nothing to do with victim blaming - but addressing toxic players that flame in chat and wrongly accuse their team mates and opponents just to feel a little bit better about themselves after a loss - most cases are exactly that

[Norbe.7630]

@snoow.1694 said:most players that place higher than Bronze won‘t probably ever encounter bots, that is the first flaw in your argument.They are currently on Plat/Gold 3 right now, in fact as of this moment they are streaming lol

[Cyninja.2954]

@snoow.1694 said:

@TrOtskY.5927 said:People are justly paranoid about this, because there are a lot of bots. If the botting problem was actually taken care of, this thread complaining about complaining, could never have even come into existence.

So maybe think about that before victim blaming next time? Thanks.

„Botting problem“ is what you say without having any numbers - most players that place higher than Bronze won‘t probably ever encounter bots, that is the first flaw in your argument. It has also nothing to do with victim blaming - but addressing toxic players that flame in chat and wrongly accuse their team mates and opponents just to feel a little bit better about themselves after a loss - most cases are exactly that

Woodenpotatoes literally made a video a few weeks ago with actual footage of hacking players, and he most certainly is not in bronze.

Sorry I get that people want to defend Arenanet here, but a closed and blind eye approach is not the way.

There are players using hacks, certainly not as often as every makes it out to be, but far above it being a non issue. The same goes for bots, some of which are happily doing their 3k+ games per season which would be humanly impossible or would require very didcated account sharing.

Are there a ton of salty players? Sure. That does not mean that valid concerns are all discredited.

This thread kind of reminds me of the initial Cyberpunk 2077 reviews, especially the ones which magically managed to not find a single bug. Just like some people are over paranoid, others are oblivious. Perception bias works both ways here.

[Undertaker.4368]

@snoow.1694 i play 4 years here. a lot time at gold. Now because bots i barelly at silver 3. i konw why people are mad. If at moonthly tournaments berserker can fly and Anet doing nothing about it i understand rage.

[Avatar.3568]

I saw this year the first time hackers and it where 3 or 4,i missed the flying rifle warrior but I saw the guys porting all over (or under) the map. Bots are existent but there are mostly in bronze or in late-night matches, EU has iirc less bots than na and less of an bot problem.

On na on the other hand there is a massiv not problem, some. Of the bots are sitting in gold 2, idk what this says about the players on na but there are more bits and in more divisions than on eu

[anjo.6143]

@snoow.1694 said:All you see on this subforum when browsing through are people that cry about botting and hacking when in reality they most likely just got destroyed in a match and are looking for excuses.

I am not saying hackers or bots don‘t exist, they do, but not in the quantity people are crying about. I have played through at least the past 7 seasons on EU servers without a break - out of all the games I only got one Mirage bot in a 2v2 Mini Season right after the February patch and never again afterwards, because bots logically won‘t place really high in ranked and at a certain division there is none of them left. During this time I also didn’t see one hacker as far as I could tell - nothing like the flying Warriors in Wooden Potatoes hacker video or a Thief porting around the entire map like in Valluns hacker video

What I saw though was salty people accusing each other in chat of hacking in the most ridiculous ways when they started to lose to the point where I saw a random Reaper teammate getting accused by some Guardian of speed hacking just a few days ago, when Reapers are actually known to run Speed Runes with Spectral Walk. He had to literally wait for him at his spawn, let him come out and showed him how Speed Runes work to just make that guy stop crying in chat. While the whole conversation was amusing to follow, it is also starting to get extremely annoying at this point. I am not sure how ArenaNets data looks like, but I wouldn‘t be surprised if 9 out of 10 people who get reported for hacking actually did nothing wrong and got accused wrongly by a salty player, but I would be interested to know

And while we are at it - ArenaNet where is that next Balance Patch at?

No. There is many bots, even gold3 and plat. They are ruining ranked matches.

Also there is hackers, even on daily and monthly tournaments.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@TrOtskY.5927 said:People are justly paranoid about this, because there are a lot of bots. If the botting problem was actually taken care of, this thread complaining about complaining, could never have even come into existence.

So maybe think about that before victim blaming next time? Thanks.

„Botting problem“ is what you say without having any numbers - most players that place higher than Bronze won‘t probably ever encounter bots, that is the first flaw in your argument. It has also nothing to do with victim blaming - but addressing toxic players that flame in chat and wrongly accuse their team mates and opponents just to feel a little bit better about themselves after a loss - most cases are exactly that

Woodenpotatoes literally made a video a few weeks ago with actual footage of hacking players, and he most certainly is not in bronze.

Sorry I get that people want to defend Arenanet here, but a closed and blind eye approach is not the way.

There are players using hacks, certainly not as often as every makes it out to be, but far above it being a non issue. The same goes for bots, some of which are happily doing their 3k+ games per season which would be humanly impossible or would require very didcated account sharing.

Are there a ton of salty players? Sure. That does not mean that valid concerns are all discredited.

This thread kind of reminds me of the initial Cyberpunk 2077 reviews, especially the ones which magically managed to not find a single bug. Just like some people are over paranoid, others are oblivious. Perception bias works both ways here.

Woodenpotatoes made a video about the hacking warriors I was talking about - it was in Automated Turnaments, not ranked. Also they were hackers and no bots. Fact is out of the screenshots that flooded the forum for close to a year, ALL bots had played around 1000 matches during season season with a loss ratio of over 60% - there is NO possibility that a bot with such a winrate can place better than silver.

I don‘t know if there are differences between EU and US, but I doubt that I had a bot during one of by 5v5 ranked matches up in Plat over all the seasons I have played - in fact there is no chance considering how tough matches get most of the time

[Cyninja.2954]

@snoow.1694 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@TrOtskY.5927 said:People are justly paranoid about this, because there are a lot of bots. If the botting problem was actually taken care of, this thread complaining about complaining, could never have even come into existence.

So maybe think about that before victim blaming next time? Thanks.

„Botting problem“ is what you say without having any numbers - most players that place higher than Bronze won‘t probably ever encounter bots, that is the first flaw in your argument. It has also nothing to do with victim blaming - but addressing toxic players that flame in chat and wrongly accuse their team mates and opponents just to feel a little bit better about themselves after a loss - most cases are exactly that

Woodenpotatoes literally made a video a few weeks ago with actual footage of hacking players, and he most certainly is not in bronze.

Sorry I get that people want to defend Arenanet here, but a closed and blind eye approach is not the way.

There are players using hacks, certainly not as often as every makes it out to be, but far above it being a non issue. The same goes for bots, some of which are happily doing their 3k+ games per season which would be humanly impossible or would require very didcated account sharing.

Are there a ton of salty players? Sure. That does not mean that valid concerns are all discredited.

This thread kind of reminds me of the initial Cyberpunk 2077 reviews, especially the ones which magically managed to not find a single bug. Just like some people are over paranoid, others are oblivious. Perception bias works both ways here.

Woodenpotatoes made a video about the hacking warriors I was talking about - it was in Automated Turnaments, not ranked.

Yes, does that matter though? Do you seriously want to claim that players who hack in mat will not hack in ranked?

@snoow.1694 said:Also they were hackers and no bots. Fact is out of the screenshots that flooded the forum for close to a year, ALL bots had played around 1000 matches during season season with a loss ratio of over 60% - there is NO possibility that a bot with such a winrate can place better than silver.

Sure and bot efficiency certainly fluctuates between seasons. Most notably after mirage was nerfed multiple times.

We all know that bots predominately sit in lower ranks. No one made any claim that each and every plat game sees bots. That does not mean accepting bots in lower ranks is in any way okay. What, a player is not that good and now he should suffer playing against bots? What will the slogan be:"get gud or play against bots"? That's without even any knowledge of 5v5 bot games in bronze, which I am sure are happening constantly.

The game has a bot problem and a hacker problem.

@snoow.1694 said:I don‘t know if there are differences between EU and US, but I doubt that I had a bot during one of by 5v5 ranked matches up in Plat over all the seasons I have played - in fact there is no chance considering how tough matches get most of the time

There is a difference between EU and NA. Not only in meta but most notable also player and accounts which participate. This is true across all game modes where US is currently vastly smaller than EU.

[Falan.1839]

Some people just start with the hackusation whenever they feel someone killed them faster than he is supposed to. The actual hacks I've seen were all mobility hacks (speed/port/fly), whereas some people will scream hacks basically whenever they got oneshot, which is usually just a semi-competent or competent player on a overperforming build. The amount of people that do it is probably not even that high, but individuals scream about it so regularly that it gets stuck. There is one Nec Main with a female Acc name on EU that is especially famous for it, it has become somewhat of a running gag because so many different people have posted hackusations from him on discord...

Bots are a real issue, but it is so exclusively in the low divisions, and eventually should not stop you from climbing, since they are easy to kill and there is no reason why you would get more bots in your team than the other team does on average. Obviously it might happen in single matches, but overall you will still climb. Some P1/P2 dude even made a joke out of it to drop into Bronze on purpose and then climb back up with a dedicated bot farming build. In duo it should be even easier to do that.

[TheBigPlay.7504]

hacker defender spottted

[GuriGashi.5617]

@TheBigPlay.7504 said:hacker defender spottted

It has nothing to do with that, every hacker should be held accountable and permanently banned, but we have reached a point where legitimate players get attacked by players who don‘t know how mechanics like Runes of Speed work and where insulting people as hackers has become the number one excuse for salty and toxic players

[aymnad.9023]

First of all I did say this to you in a game (where I was core guard) not too long ago after you moved in a weird way and you said you had rune of speed. As I told you in game I did check the buffs on you and did not see any so it can be a mistake on my part just like it can be for any player. But not only is this rune a perfect excuse for speed hackers, it also makes player do some weird movements during a fight.

Now for the main point, saying there are little hack or little bots are going on would be being really unaware of the situation.

A few seasons ago I started with a goal “sticking to a new profession (I did not play many of them in sPvP) + a single build supposed not to be great for a full season” (seems stupid and very precise but I have a lot of fun and it can be hard). I usually start in silver for a few weeks, then move on to gold for most of the season, and usually end up bottom plat 1 or really close. You will see more bots and hacks more than you seem to believe. Not every game but you will see weird stuff and people almost every 3 games.

Granted, you cannot always make out the difference between a “bad player carried by a build” (barely dodge and move like scourge with minion), someone just “using a game mechanic” (sticking on you really hard and avoiding like a mirage), “a player stubborn” (going for the same objective all the time even if you kill him again and again like a trapper ranger) and a bot on first sight. You can even add to the list of suspicious actions a team going faster than a thief to get the close node at the start, people who stop chasing every time just when you reach some range, someone moving faster than you without any buff. None of those guarantee a bot or a hack you say? Well 1V1 those for some time or stick vs them during fights and you will change your mind. In multiple rounds I was suspicious seeing some ally actions but was also too busy thinking where I should go or which skill I should use next. Then a few rounds later you fight against them and it becomes clear. This is why you will see more bots on the enemy team than in yours. Even old tricks do not always work because as I said in an other thread some bots do not even go for those 1000+ games in a season.

At the end of last season I was on deadeye. I found a core necro in gold 3 (played by a human btw because he was answering), hit him from behind with dj and there is no damage, no miss, no block, no dodge animation. A few seconds later same scenario, I use skirmisher shot, no damage, no malice, no miss, no block, no dodge animation. And it happened again and again, every few seconds some damage would just “disappear”. Was it a hack as I thought and he told me? Or was I just waiting to get carried like my team said or trolled by him and some game mechanic I missed multiple times?

You can have a good rank which lowers the chances of meeting a bot (when I was playing in plat I also noticed less) but I highly doubt you only met 1 hacker / bot in 7 seasons.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@aymnad.9023 said:First of all I did say this to you in a game (where I was core guard) not too long ago after you moved in a weird way and you said you had rune of speed. As I told you in game I did check the buffs on you and did not see any so it can be a mistake on my part just like it can be for any player. But not only is this rune a perfect excuse for speed hackers, it also makes player do some weird movements during a fight.

Now for the main point, saying there are little hack or little bots are going on would be being really unaware of the situation.

A few seasons ago I started with a goal “sticking to a new profession (I did not play many of them in sPvP) + a single build supposed not to be great for a full season” (seems stupid and very precise but I have a lot of fun and it can be hard). I usually start in silver for a few weeks, then move on to gold for most of the season, and usually end up bottom plat 1 or really close. You will see more bots and hacks more than you seem to believe. Not every game but you will see weird stuff and people almost every 3 games.

Granted, you cannot always make out the difference between a “bad player carried by a build” (barely dodge and move like scourge with minion), someone just “using a game mechanic” (sticking on you really hard and avoiding like a mirage), “a player stubborn” (going for the same objective all the time even if you kill him again and again like a trapper ranger) and a bot on first sight. You can even add to the list of suspicious actions a team going faster than a thief to get the close node at the start, people who stop chasing every time just when you reach some range, someone moving faster than you without any buff. None of those guarantee a bot or a hack you say? Well 1V1 those for some time or stick vs them during fights and you will change your mind. In multiple rounds I was suspicious seeing some ally actions but was also too busy thinking where I should go or which skill I should use next. Then a few rounds later you fight against them and it becomes clear. This is why you will see more bots on the enemy team than in yours. Even old tricks do not always work because as I said in an other thread some bots do not even go for those 1000+ games in a season.

At the end of last season I was on deadeye. I found a core necro in gold 3 (played by a human btw because he was answering), hit him from behind with dj and there is no damage, no miss, no block, no dodge animation. A few seconds later same scenario, I use skirmisher shot, no damage, no malice, no miss, no block, no dodge animation. And it happened again and again, every few seconds some damage would just “disappear”. Was it a hack as I thought and he told me? Or was I just waiting to get carried like my team said or trolled by him and some game mechanic I missed multiple times?

You can have a good rank which lowers the chances of meeting a bot (when I was playing in plat I also noticed less) but I highly doubt you only met 1 hacker / bot in 7 seasons.

Sorry don‘t know who you are, not good at recognizing account names, but you are basically proving my point. You mistook Speed Runes for actual speed hacking if I understand correctly?

[aymnad.9023]

@snoow.1694 said:

@aymnad.9023 said:First of all I did say this to you in a game (where I was core guard) not too long ago after you moved in a weird way and you said you had rune of speed. As I told you in game I did check the buffs on you and did not see any so it can be a mistake on my part just like it can be for any player. But not only is this rune a perfect excuse for speed hackers, it also makes player do some weird movements during a fight.

Now for the main point, saying there are little hack or little bots are going on would be being really unaware of the situation.

A few seasons ago I started with a goal “sticking to a new profession (I did not play many of them in sPvP) + a single build supposed not to be great for a full season” (seems stupid and very precise but I have a lot of fun and it can be hard). I usually start in silver for a few weeks, then move on to gold for most of the season, and usually end up bottom plat 1 or really close. You will see more bots and hacks more than you seem to believe. Not every game but you will see weird stuff and people almost every 3 games.

Granted, you cannot always make out the difference between a “bad player carried by a build” (barely dodge and move like scourge with minion), someone just “using a game mechanic” (sticking on you really hard and avoiding like a mirage), “a player stubborn” (going for the same objective all the time even if you kill him again and again like a trapper ranger) and a bot on first sight. You can even add to the list of suspicious actions a team going faster than a thief to get the close node at the start, people who stop chasing every time just when you reach some range, someone moving faster than you without any buff. None of those guarantee a bot or a hack you say? Well 1V1 those for some time or stick vs them during fights and you will change your mind. In multiple rounds I was suspicious seeing some ally actions but was also too busy thinking where I should go or which skill I should use next. Then a few rounds later you fight against them and it becomes clear. This is why you will see more bots on the enemy team than in yours. Even old tricks do not always work because as I said in an other thread some bots do not even go for those 1000+ games in a season.

At the end of last season I was on deadeye. I found a core necro in gold 3 (played by a human btw because he was answering), hit him from behind with dj and there is no damage, no miss, no block, no dodge animation. A few seconds later same scenario, I use skirmisher shot, no damage, no malice, no miss, no block, no dodge animation. And it happened again and again, every few seconds some damage would just “disappear”. Was it a hack as I thought and he told me? Or was I just waiting to get carried like my team said or trolled by him and some game mechanic I missed multiple times?

You can have a good rank which lowers the chances of meeting a bot (when I was playing in plat I also noticed less) but I highly doubt you only met 1 hacker / bot in 7 seasons.

Sorry don‘t know who you are, not good at recognizing account names, but you are basically proving my point. You mistook Speed Runes for actual speed hacking if I understand correctly?

If you were on core bunker guard then yes. But did you only read the first 3 lines?Edit : it was on EU unranked and I was training on power core guard :)

[Megametzler.5729]

@"Falan.1839" said:Some people just start with the hackusation whenever they feel someone killed them faster than he is supposed to. The actual hacks I've seen were all mobility hacks (speed/port/fly), whereas some people will scream hacks basically whenever they got oneshot, which is usually just a semi-competent or competent player on a overperforming build. The amount of people that do it is probably not even that high, but individuals scream about it so regularly that it gets stuck. There is one Nec Main with a female Acc name on EU that is especially famous for it, it has become somewhat of a running gag because so many different people have posted hackusations from him on discord...

Bots are a real issue, but it is so exclusively in the low divisions, and eventually should not stop you from climbing, since they are easy to kill and there is no reason why you would get more bots in your team than the other team does on average. Obviously it might happen in single matches, but overall you will still climb. Some P1/P2 dude even made a joke out of it to drop into Bronze on purpose and then climb back up with a dedicated bot farming build. In duo it should be even easier to do that.

I only watched the first half, but I didn't really spot bots? Like some players barely moved, but then ocassionally strafed or moved backwards while fighting... or did they come later? The build just looks like a noob filter?

Honest question. At first glance, I only saw, well, bronze players. But maybe I underestimate bots?

[cloudsareyum.8120]

I got called a hacker once when I did a particularly nice combo quick kill with my thief against an inexperienced player some time back. It cheered me up :3. Allllllll skilll. (especially since OOF I think I was using deadeye and they are so easily counterable and squishy, it's challenging but rewarding to get nice kills in) Esp since I figure the complaint wouldn't be taken seriously. I think I've only heard the accusation a time or two since then (sadly I haven't been killing fast enough apparently :P), but it was an occasional thing. I've never hacked, and I've never got in trouble for any false reports or crying anyone did.

I think if we want to put a quality of life post together in the QOL thread so that people who repeatedly accuse others of hacking coz they're salty, or harass people afterwards thru whisper, or are generally just being nasty and toxic and salting all over chat, do link me and I'll happily upvote it, I know Anet checks those. I think that would dampen some of the nastiness in general, and it did actually work for league of legends to an extent (although now some toxicity is back).

For personal QoL, unless you're in uh... I think it was, silver 3, where people actually seemed to use it for objectives, and nobody higher nor lower seems to use it for much useful stuff (tho not like i'm plat so i wouldn't know about that, but iirc the one plat person i know didn't see much useful stuff being said there), it may just be best to turn off chat and communicate via pings and unseen chat for sanity purposes. I think there was one person who kept accusing people of being a bot just to get a rise out of everyone. That may have changed tho

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

I sat and 1v1'd two different people last night who were obviously using speedhack in the arena and not even trying to deny it.

Hack use is starting to become normalized. It's getting to the point where people are becoming desensitized to seeing it, and thus don't come down on so harshly as they would have 2 years ago as example. In many cases I've seen, when a person is using lets say speedhack, but sucks so bad that they die constantly anyway, no one cares. The person gets ignored and often doesn't even get reported.

The only time I see hacks REALLY pissing people off still, is when good players are sneaking in short bursts of speedhack use to win some competitive match, like say the final round of an AT or a match that makes the difference between someone breaking into the top 20 or falling out of it. And of course when people use absolutely game breaking hacks like telehack or flyhack, which are just too powerful for anyone to tolerate, even if it's a bad player wielding them.

Unless Arenanet takes a hard stance on this stuff and starts tossing out some hard bans, we're going to see the general growing acceptance of wide used speedhack over the course of the next year here. It will become a standard part of build structures. If they don't do something about this, eventually complete bologna like telehack & flyhack will also begin to gain some level of tolerance. <- And when that happens, the game will truly be ruined with nothing left to salvage. This is no "theory" that I am talking about here. I've watched this same exact process happen to many games over the years. It's always the hack programs that nail the coffin and bury the game.

You can argue about this and that and whatever you want, but why argue about if the hacks are real? I mean at this point you can quite seriously sit in the mists and watch the ffa, and just about 1 out of 15 or 20 people that drop down in there, it is quite obvious that they are using speedhack boosts or even sometimes tele/fly hacks.

Anyone who claims to not be seeing this stuff, is either not paying very good attention to what's going on around them, or wanting to believe in this game's legitimacy so much that they are willing to fool themselves.

[Khalisto.5780]

Oh well

NA silver 3 division is crowded with bots

Hackers Ive seen 2 last months

But bots oh god

I wish i had time and HD space to record a lot of matches

But i do have footage of fighting 2 bots in v2 deathmatch and they stop working when time goes 0

[Stand The Wall.6987]

bots and hackers are usually a symptom of the devs not caring

[reikken.4961]

because of the lack of population, it's hard to outrank bots. at least on NA. even when I was hovering between gold3 and plat1 I'd get scourge bots in my games a lot

[Excursion.9752]

In the past 700 matches I've encountered 2 actual hackers porting around the map. Bots on the other hand to many to count. I wouldn't mind getting rid of both.