Can we talk about how broken scrapper is?

[Ovark.2514]

It's basically unkillable 1v1. Heck even 2v1 it's hard to kill. what I'm getting at is that the way supply crate and grenades work is broken and needs to be redesigned. You shouldn't be able to throw grenades behind you in such a cheesy way. Also supply crate needs to have the obnoxious pulsing blind removed.

[Tycura.1982]

Scrapper < Spellbreaker

[Ovark.2514]

@"Tycura.1982" said:Scrapper < Spellbreaker

It's not about what's "good," it's the difference between me feeling like my opponent outplayed me and feeling like my victory was stolen because of bad game design (cheese).

[Tycura.1982]

@Ovark.2514 said:

@"Tycura.1982" said:Scrapper < Spellbreaker

It's not about what's "good," it's the difference between me feeling like my opponent outplayed me and feeling like my victory was stolen because of bad game design (cheese).

Scrapper loses to strength Spellbreaker 1v1 because of their crappy stunbreaks was what that meant to convey.

[Kuma.1503]

Bout time Scrapper did something relevant. If Anet is going to let it be bad in PvE because "it's a PvP spec" damnit, let it do well in PvP.

Yes I am biased because I main it.

[avey.4201]

I can mash all the buttons up to gold rank on turret/grenade engi.(first time engi)I can go to gold on minion spam reaper by mashing buttons, doesn't even need lich form.(first time necro)I ride power DH down to bronze after playing it since 2016.There is no out play in spam meta, face roll the keyboard is the answer.

[Raiden The Beast.3016]

@"Kuma.1503" said:Bout time Scrapper did something relevant. If Anet is going to let it be bad in PvE because "it's a PvP spec" damnit, let it do well in PvP.

Yes I am biased because I main it.

Fits for all teef specs...

BUFF TEEF ?

[GuriGashi.5617]

Offensive Scrapper isn‘t the problem, meaning ones that heavily rely on the use of grenades - since nades got nerfed they don‘t feel as oppressive anymore, what Scrappers need is a massive sustain nerf in terms of barrier, boon uptime and defensive skills such as Elixir S as well as some mobility reduction.

Scrapper play in general is kinda degenerate - they harrass a point knowing fully well that the person defending it won‘t with a high probability survive as long as them and as soon as another person from the enemy team goes to +1 they hit Elixir S, then stealth, kite and even get away most of the times through high mobility, which then results in the rest of the team getting slaughtered in a 3v4 on other points. If Scrapper would go down more easily in case of a +1, everything would be fine, but right now people invest too many players to achieve nothing while losing on the rest of the map - that is the main problem

Engineers and Revs will forever stay a problem in PvP, because they don‘t have to choose between high damage, sustain, mobility or support, they can offer everything without losing much on other ends

[Kuma.1503]

@"snoow.1694" said:Offensive Scrapper isn‘t the problem, meaning ones that heavily rely on the use of grenades - since nades got nerfed they don‘t feel as oppressive anymore, what Scrappers need is a massive sustain nerf in terms of barrier, boon uptime and defensive skills such as Elixir S as well as some mobility reduction.

Scrapper play in general is kinda degenerate - they harrass a point knowing fully well that the person defending it won‘t with a high probability survive as long as them and as soon as another person from the enemy team goes to +1 they hit Elixir S, then stealth, kite and even get away most of the times through high mobility, which then results in the rest of the team getting slaughtered in a 3v4 on other points. If Scrapper would go down more easily in case of a +1, everything would be fine, but right now people invest too many players to achieve nothing while losing on the rest of the map - that is the main problem

Engineers and Revs will forever stay a problem in PvP, because they don‘t have to choose between high damage, sustain, mobility or support, they can offer everything without losing much on other ends

I looked up the definition of degenerate and I got the following:

"Tactics that force an opponent to adopt playstyles that are not fun to play or are non-standard. This is often (but not always) a subset of cheese."

When people say a class/build is degenerate on the forums, they're almost always referring to the first definition. It's not fun to play against.Unfortunately, that's next to useless because "fun" is entirely subjective. Losing (generally) isn't fun. Scrapper is meta. Players are losing to scrapper at a higher rate than they were before. Same can (and often has) been said of any other meta build.

Non-standard play does not apply here. Scrapper is doing exactly what a sidenoder should be doing. It's difficult to kill. It has to interact with you in order to obtain it's sustain. Impact Savant is just a sustain nerf unless they hit to to gain value out of barrier. It has good mobility via superspeed in order to kite around node and gain value by wasting player's time. It plays similarly to a spell breaker.

It's a beefy spec. It's not meant to go down easily. You could nerf it's durability, but then what would be the point of scrapper? Why suffer impact savant's vitality loss if not to gain good barrier uptime. You wouldn't have a trade-off at that point, you'd simply have a downgrade.

Scrapper's durability isn't the problem. It's where it should be. Its support isn't the issue. It cannot hold a candle to tempest or Healbreaker even if it invests heavily into support. Mobility on it is average to slightly above average. It has two gapclosers, brief bursts of superspeed, no blinks, and virtually no swiftness (You need to sacrifice 2 high value skills if you want to blast lightning fields and you can only do so once). Damage wise, it's middle of the pack. After nade nerfs it has to rely on chipping you down with mortar kit autos before going in for its burst.

Problem is that damage as a whole is too low. It's natural that they would feel unkillable after we nerfed what few hard hitting classes we had left.

[ixora.3569]

@avey.4201 said:I can mash all the buttons up to gold rank on turret/grenade engi.(first time engi)I can go to gold on minion spam reaper by mashing buttons, doesn't even need lich form.(first time necro)I ride power DH down to bronze after playing it since 2016.There is no out play in spam meta, face roll the keyboard is the answer.

^This right here.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

Offensive Scrapper isn‘t the problem, meaning ones that heavily rely on the use of grenades - since nades got nerfed they don‘t feel as oppressive anymore, what Scrappers need is a massive sustain nerf in terms of barrier, boon uptime and defensive skills such as Elixir S as well as some mobility reduction.

@"snoow.1694"Scrapper is Bruiser roleBruiser is half tank, half dps

In pvp you have diferent roleslike :Dueler -> hight 1vs1, big burst, medium sustainBruiser -> hight sustain, medium dmgRoamer -> low sustain, big mobility, squishy for 1vs1, good in team fights/taking objectiveSupport-> offhealing/boons, usualy tanky but low dmg

if you nerf Scrapper, he no longger will have Bruiser roleand cuz medium dmg, he will can't be duelerAlso becose Scrapper is Bruiser , his role is to tank enemy dmg and his first who will initate fight

If dueler will do it, he will fast die from 2vs1

So in short Scrapper schold breake enemy line and for that he need be tanky

But Scrapper can't kill you in 1sor in 2s as his not dueler, he can't pinpoint you with bursthe have medium dmg who kill you progressively

Thx to brusher, your duelers (dmg dealers) can walk up to enemy more safe, here how it work :

[Stand The Wall.6987]

none of you know what the hell you're talking about.

[Avatar.3568]

Reduce a Lil bit the blind than scrapper good I guess, not shredding the blind just touching it

[Grimjack.8130]

i see a warrior who seems to think him killing bad scrappers means he'd kill good ones, it doesnt, scrapper doesnt lose to war. man thinks hes the only person capable of playing warrior i guessi see people who are talking about grenades on scrapper, they certainly add alot to this threadand i see another person who has watched a video and suddenly thinks he knows the gamemode better than the people who actually win in pvp

poggywoggy

[Dawdler.8521]

@"Noah Salazar.5430" said:Scrapper is Brusher roleWhy do I see before me a scrapper prancing around on the battlefield with a brush trying to brush everyones hair while they run terrifed into corners, trying to hide from him. After a while they see a Charr come hobbling out from a capture point, with positively shining hair in elaborate braids inlined with gold and silver just bawling his eyes out "I HAD A MOHAWK...".

[Tycura.1982]

@Grimjack.8130 said:i see a warrior who seems to think him killing bad scrappers means he'd kill good ones, it doesnt, scrapper doesnt lose to war. man thinks hes the only person capable of playing warrior i guessi see people who are talking about grenades on scrapper, they certainly add alot to this threadand i see another person who has watched a video and suddenly thinks he knows the gamemode better than the people who actually win in pvp

poggywoggy

Point me to a good scrapper then

[CutesySylveon.8290]

@Noah Salazar.5430 said:

Offensive Scrapper isn‘t the problem, meaning ones that heavily rely on the use of grenades - since nades got nerfed they don‘t feel as oppressive anymore, what Scrappers need is a massive sustain nerf in terms of barrier, boon uptime and defensive skills such as Elixir S as well as some mobility reduction.

@"snoow.1694"Scrapper is Brusher roleBrusher is half tank, half dps

In pvp you have diferent roleslike :Dueler -> hight 1vs1, big burst, medium sustainBrusher -> hight sustain, medium dmgRoamer -> low sustain, big mobility, squishy for 1vs1, good in team fights/taking objectiveSupport-> offhealing/boons, usualy tanky but low dmg

if you nerf Scrapper, he no longger will have brusher roleand cuz medium dmg, he will can't be duelerAlso becose Scrapper is brusher, his role is to tank enemy dmg and his first who will initate fight

If dueler will do it, he will fast die from 2vs1

So in short Scrapper schold breake enemy line and for that he need be tanky

But Scrapper can't kill you in 1sor in 2s as his not dueler, he can't pinpoint you with bursthe have medium dmg who kill you progressively

Thx to brusher, your duelers (dmg dealers) can walk up to enemy more safe, here how it work :

What in the world is a brusher? I think you mean a Bruiser.

[Noah Salazar.5430]

What in the world is a Brusher? I think you mean a Bucher.

Bucher? yeh a bit

[ollbirtan.2915]

While you are on it, please NERF THEEEF. Thanks.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@ollbirtan.2915 said:While you are on it, please NERF THEEEF. Thanks.

U may as well, it's already falling out of favor for the one thing it does lol. May aswell finish the job and delete the class imo.

[Masteis.9720]

Scrappers are tough but that does not make them broken. In addition to this, as a Scrapper, you cannot burst down an enemy as well. If you find Scrapper broken, there are some Tempest builds that I wish you to encounter in PvP.

[Arheundel.6451]

Imagine having people saying that Tempest is tougher and more useful than scrapper.....

Oh wait...the situation even "better" in WvW.....

Surely Tempest is stronger....

By the way...I doubt strongly that scrapper went unnoticed by the devs....

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Masteis.9720" said:Scrappers are tough but that does not make them broken. In addition to this, as a Scrapper, you cannot burst down an enemy as well. If you find Scrapper broken, there are some Tempest builds that I wish you to encounter in PvP.

Yeah I wish to encounter them too...mind to share with the rest of the community? I am sure "TOP" teams would love to run double Tempest as well....

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Scrapper not dying is kind of its whole thing, isn't it?

@ollbirtan.2915 said:While you are on it, please NERF THEEEF. Thanks.

Ye

[Kuma.1503]

@Arheundel.6451 said:snip

Heal Tempest >>> Heal Scrapper in PvP. Heal scrapper doesn't offer it's team much other than spam cleanses, and Tempest easily accomplishes that with less effort thanks to smothering auras + soldier/trooper rune. It's not terribly difficult to train down a support scrapper because it generally runs 1 stunbreak tops (Elixir Gun toolbelt). It needs to be in close proximity to it's allies to heal which means forcing it to kite greatly limits its ability to support its team. Meanwhile Tempest can kite and support by simply spamming auras.

Heal Scrapper >>> Heal Tempest in WvW. In fact that's my problem with it. I wish it wasn' t so good in WvW so that Anet couldn't use that as an excuse to let it suck in other game modes. This is the first time in a while that it's been better than Holo as a dps bruiser in PvP, and that's literally it's whole schtick. There's very little reason to ever run one, dps or support in PvE. Even as a noob carry, heal scourge does the job 10x better.