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VISUAL CUES: what works and what doesn't


Terrorhuz.4695

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@Vancho.8750 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:Infuse light is fine, the glow is bright and you can watch the buff bar when the heal utility is used you know he can use glint.It's the same with the fear staff skill, and the mirage stun, all 0,5 seconds cast time is enaugh, increasing cast time makes slower and dump game more down, the animation is good visible even when mirage is stealthed.

big lolas mirage I land 80% stuns, and 20% that I miss is not due to enemy specifically target dodging but rando dodging/blocking it, maybe 5% of the times I fire it you can react, but when you add it p5->blink or stealth then its a real problem

Same thing with IL, what are you gonna do? stop attacking rev? the moment you try to connect a big hit they use their INSTANT reverse damage button, and even if they convert nothing the skill still heals about 4k hp in total.remove cast time from facet of light, give IL cast time off 0,25s and now there is actual counterplay.Its never a problem to react to it, but the fact that by the time you react its already too late and it healed for 7k+ AND you cant attack.

Agree here.

Pistol 5 has the same animation as pistol 4. The only difference is the projectile(s): Which is clearly visible for the illusion, but very quick for the stun. Either reduce projectile speed or give a glow for the stun to differentiate the animations.

I want to add: This shows some unbiased argument, arguing against ones own main class, thanks @Leonidrex.5649.

Infuse Light is still a terrible design. A revenant can activate the facet and basically prevent enemies from bursting him, because he can turn it all into full healing
instantly
. Yes, he reduces his offensive potential due to the costs, but he can prevent major offensive against him, even while stunned. The cast time should have been on IL, not the facet. Just like on warrior.I think mesmer pistil is one of the better telegraphed ranged weapons, yeah it might need some more of a difference between the skills but as skills they are different enough and the sound queues help me allot ( the issue i have with it is stealth into the skill since the telegraphs play after they hit but that is general issue with stealth for everything) .Now if you want really kitten telegraphs go into ranger longbow or shortbow all of the skills look the same, there is a small deviation between them but it is too negligible the kitten cc looks like a basic attack, good thing is that your average ranger is predictable as kitten and does 4 2 or 3 4 2, too bad they can do it off screen.

As a someone that made ranger I can attest to the fact that usually nobody sees lb4 coming as it has super far reach, no real tell.as for the 4->2 combo... there is nothing else lol, at best you can use barrage and auto-attacks while waiting for dodges.

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@Avatar.3568 said:Infuse light is fine, the glow is bright and you can watch the buff bar when the heal utility is used you know he can use glint.It's the same with the fear staff skill, and the mirage stun, all 0,5 seconds cast time is enaugh, increasing cast time makes slower and dump game more down, the animation is good visible even when mirage is stealthed.

@"Terrorhuz.4695" said:I don't even want the attack itself to be slower, I just need a better visual effect to warn me "WATCH OUT SOMETHING MEANINGFUL IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN" (and we can all agree that priming infuse light IS meaningful). 0.25s cast time is fine, just place some sort of bright flash on the player's model instead of having me look at the boon bar where there are 10 other boons, 4 of which have about the same icon.

Bruh just read what I say. I don't want longer cast time, I want proper proper vfx on strong skills. Cast time remains the same.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:Infuse light is fine, the glow is bright and you can watch the buff bar when the heal utility is used you know he can use glint.It's the same with the fear staff skill, and the mirage stun, all 0,5 seconds cast time is enaugh, increasing cast time makes slower and dump game more down, the animation is good visible even when mirage is stealthed.

big lolas mirage I land 80% stuns, and 20% that I miss is not due to enemy specifically target dodging but rando dodging/blocking it, maybe 5% of the times I fire it you can react, but when you add it p5->blink or stealth then its a real problem

Same thing with IL, what are you gonna do? stop attacking rev? the moment you try to connect a big hit they use their INSTANT reverse damage button, and even if they convert nothing the skill still heals about 4k hp in total.remove cast time from facet of light, give IL cast time off 0,25s and now there is actual counterplay.Its never a problem to react to it, but the fact that by the time you react its already too late and it healed for 7k+ AND you cant attack.

Agree here.

Pistol 5 has the same animation as pistol 4. The only difference is the projectile(s): Which is clearly visible for the illusion, but very quick for the stun. Either reduce projectile speed or give a glow for the stun to differentiate the animations.

I want to add: This shows some unbiased argument, arguing against ones own main class, thanks @Leonidrex.5649.

Infuse Light is still a terrible design. A revenant can activate the facet and basically prevent enemies from bursting him, because he can turn it all into full healing
instantly
. Yes, he reduces his offensive potential due to the costs, but he can prevent major offensive against him, even while stunned. The cast time should have been on IL, not the facet. Just like on warrior.I think mesmer pistil is one of the better telegraphed ranged weapons, yeah it might need some more of a difference between the skills but as skills they are different enough and the sound queues help me allot ( the issue i have with it is stealth into the skill since the telegraphs play after they hit but that is general issue with stealth for everything) .Now if you want really kitten telegraphs go into ranger longbow or shortbow all of the skills look the same, there is a small deviation between them but it is too negligible the kitten cc looks like a basic attack, good thing is that your average ranger is predictable as kitten and does 4 2 or 3 4 2, too bad they can do it off screen.

As a someone that made ranger I can attest to the fact that usually nobody sees lb4 coming as it has super far reach, no real tell.as for the 4->2 combo... there is nothing else lol, at best you can use barrage and auto-attacks while waiting for dodges.The basic attack is one of the strongest of the game, i'm not sure why though it is not a basic attack weapon, feels weird since it doesn't leave room for the rest of the weapons, for example axe is the basic attack weapon on ranger but is worse then LB.
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@Vancho.8750 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:Infuse light is fine, the glow is bright and you can watch the buff bar when the heal utility is used you know he can use glint.It's the same with the fear staff skill, and the mirage stun, all 0,5 seconds cast time is enaugh, increasing cast time makes slower and dump game more down, the animation is good visible even when mirage is stealthed.

big lolas mirage I land 80% stuns, and 20% that I miss is not due to enemy specifically target dodging but rando dodging/blocking it, maybe 5% of the times I fire it you can react, but when you add it p5->blink or stealth then its a real problem

Same thing with IL, what are you gonna do? stop attacking rev? the moment you try to connect a big hit they use their INSTANT reverse damage button, and even if they convert nothing the skill still heals about 4k hp in total.remove cast time from facet of light, give IL cast time off 0,25s and now there is actual counterplay.Its never a problem to react to it, but the fact that by the time you react its already too late and it healed for 7k+ AND you cant attack.

Agree here.

Pistol 5 has the same animation as pistol 4. The only difference is the projectile(s): Which is clearly visible for the illusion, but very quick for the stun. Either reduce projectile speed or give a glow for the stun to differentiate the animations.

I want to add: This shows some unbiased argument, arguing against ones own main class, thanks @Leonidrex.5649.

Infuse Light is still a terrible design. A revenant can activate the facet and basically prevent enemies from bursting him, because he can turn it all into full healing
instantly
. Yes, he reduces his offensive potential due to the costs, but he can prevent major offensive against him, even while stunned. The cast time should have been on IL, not the facet. Just like on warrior.

Now if you want really kitten telegraphs go into ranger longbow or shortbow all of the skills look the same, there is a small deviation between them but it is too negligible the kitten cc looks like a basic attack, good thing is that your average ranger is predictable as kitten and does 4 2 or 3 4 2, too bad they can do it off screen.

LB4 has a pretty clear tell, but a rather short cast time and a very fast projectile, which is why players often don't react to it and it kinda has to be like this, as it isn't just an offensive cc but also key to survival on a weapon that relies on landing skills as only defense. LB 3 animation is less obvious and nearly instant, but again, it is mainly a defensive skill. LB 2 and 5 are very telegraphed, one being an 2 1/2 s long channel with an obnoxious pewpewpewpew sound effect, the other a 2 1/4 s long stationary cast wich produces an obvious aoe field on the ground.Shortbow tho has indeed no distinct animations.

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:Infuse light is fine, the glow is bright and you can watch the buff bar when the heal utility is used you know he can use glint.It's the same with the fear staff skill, and the mirage stun, all 0,5 seconds cast time is enaugh, increasing cast time makes slower and dump game more down, the animation is good visible even when mirage is stealthed.

big lolas mirage I land 80% stuns, and 20% that I miss is not due to enemy specifically target dodging but rando dodging/blocking it, maybe 5% of the times I fire it you can react, but when you add it p5->blink or stealth then its a real problem

Same thing with IL, what are you gonna do? stop attacking rev? the moment you try to connect a big hit they use their INSTANT reverse damage button, and even if they convert nothing the skill still heals about 4k hp in total.remove cast time from facet of light, give IL cast time off 0,25s and now there is actual counterplay.Its never a problem to react to it, but the fact that by the time you react its already too late and it healed for 7k+ AND you cant attack.

Agree here.

Pistol 5 has the same animation as pistol 4. The only difference is the projectile(s): Which is clearly visible for the illusion, but very quick for the stun. Either reduce projectile speed or give a glow for the stun to differentiate the animations.

I want to add: This shows some unbiased argument, arguing against ones own main class, thanks @Leonidrex.5649.

Infuse Light is still a terrible design. A revenant can activate the facet and basically prevent enemies from bursting him, because he can turn it all into full healing
instantly
. Yes, he reduces his offensive potential due to the costs, but he can prevent major offensive against him, even while stunned. The cast time should have been on IL, not the facet. Just like on warrior.I think mesmer pistil is one of the better telegraphed ranged weapons, yeah it might need some more of a difference between the skills but as skills they are different enough and the sound queues help me allot ( the issue i have with it is stealth into the skill since the telegraphs play after they hit but that is general issue with stealth for everything) .Now if you want really kitten telegraphs go into ranger longbow or shortbow all of the skills look the same, there is a small deviation between them but it is too negligible the kitten cc looks like a basic attack, good thing is that your average ranger is predictable as kitten and does 4 2 or 3 4 2, too bad they can do it off screen.

As a someone that made ranger I can attest to the fact that usually nobody sees lb4 coming as it has super far reach, no real tell.as for the 4->2 combo... there is nothing else lol, at best you can use barrage and auto-attacks while waiting for dodges.The basic attack is one of the strongest of the game, i'm not sure why though it is not a basic attack weapon, feels weird since it doesn't leave room for the rest of the weapons, for example axe is the basic attack weapon on ranger but is worse then LB.

This is not true. Axe autoattack deals about the same dps as Long Range Shot at 900 range before taking the might stacking into consideration. When factoring in the additional dmg from the might it deals more dmg than LB auto at max. range (up to like 50% more at close range). And it hits 2 targets by default, unlike LB. MH axe lacks defense, which is why it typically isn't used in glassy builds, but much better than LB for tanky boon heavy builds (boonbeast/tanky core ranger).

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@"Terrorhuz.4695" said:** EXAMPLES OF SKILLS THAT ARE ALMOST GOOD

  • Vault has a very clear animation, but the animation itself is very similar to that of Bounding Dodger... but the first deals 5k damage and can be interrupted, the latter deals 1k and can't be interrupted! They look too similar for skills with such a different impact. For example adding some dust when the thief jumps for the vault can help differentiate between the two attacks.

Vault blue, bound is not. Also Vault reaches the apex of the jump faster than bound.

also Gale, Fire Signet, and Hunter's call could use a more significant telegraph.

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@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:Infuse light is fine, the glow is bright and you can watch the buff bar when the heal utility is used you know he can use glint.It's the same with the fear staff skill, and the mirage stun, all 0,5 seconds cast time is enaugh, increasing cast time makes slower and dump game more down, the animation is good visible even when mirage is stealthed.

big lolas mirage I land 80% stuns, and 20% that I miss is not due to enemy specifically target dodging but rando dodging/blocking it, maybe 5% of the times I fire it you can react, but when you add it p5->blink or stealth then its a real problem

Same thing with IL, what are you gonna do? stop attacking rev? the moment you try to connect a big hit they use their INSTANT reverse damage button, and even if they convert nothing the skill still heals about 4k hp in total.remove cast time from facet of light, give IL cast time off 0,25s and now there is actual counterplay.Its never a problem to react to it, but the fact that by the time you react its already too late and it healed for 7k+ AND you cant attack.

Agree here.

Pistol 5 has the same animation as pistol 4. The only difference is the projectile(s): Which is clearly visible for the illusion, but very quick for the stun. Either reduce projectile speed or give a glow for the stun to differentiate the animations.

I want to add: This shows some unbiased argument, arguing against ones own main class, thanks @Leonidrex.5649.

Infuse Light is still a terrible design. A revenant can activate the facet and basically prevent enemies from bursting him, because he can turn it all into full healing
instantly
. Yes, he reduces his offensive potential due to the costs, but he can prevent major offensive against him, even while stunned. The cast time should have been on IL, not the facet. Just like on warrior.

Now if you want really kitten telegraphs go into ranger longbow or shortbow all of the skills look the same, there is a small deviation between them but it is too negligible the kitten cc looks like a basic attack, good thing is that your average ranger is predictable as kitten and does 4 2 or 3 4 2, too bad they can do it off screen.

LB4 has a pretty clear tell, but a rather short cast time and a very fast projectile, which is why players often don't react to it and it kinda has to be like this, as it isn't just an offensive cc but also key to survival on a weapon that relies on landing skills as only defense. LB 3 animation is less obvious and nearly instant, but again, it is mainly a defensive skill. LB 2 and 5 are very telegraphed, one being an 2 1/2 s long channel with an obnoxious pewpewpewpew sound effect, the other a 2 1/4 s long stationary cast wich produces an obvious aoe field on the ground.Shortbow tho has indeed no distinct animations.

@Avatar.3568 said:Infuse light is fine, the glow is bright and you can watch the buff bar when the heal utility is used you know he can use glint.It's the same with the fear staff skill, and the mirage stun, all 0,5 seconds cast time is enaugh, increasing cast time makes slower and dump game more down, the animation is good visible even when mirage is stealthed.

big lolas mirage I land 80% stuns, and 20% that I miss is not due to enemy specifically target dodging but rando dodging/blocking it, maybe 5% of the times I fire it you can react, but when you add it p5->blink or stealth then its a real problem

Same thing with IL, what are you gonna do? stop attacking rev? the moment you try to connect a big hit they use their INSTANT reverse damage button, and even if they convert nothing the skill still heals about 4k hp in total.remove cast time from facet of light, give IL cast time off 0,25s and now there is actual counterplay.Its never a problem to react to it, but the fact that by the time you react its already too late and it healed for 7k+ AND you cant attack.

Agree here.

Pistol 5 has the same animation as pistol 4. The only difference is the projectile(s): Which is clearly visible for the illusion, but very quick for the stun. Either reduce projectile speed or give a glow for the stun to differentiate the animations.

I want to add: This shows some unbiased argument, arguing against ones own main class, thanks @Leonidrex.5649.

Infuse Light is still a terrible design. A revenant can activate the facet and basically prevent enemies from bursting him, because he can turn it all into full healing
instantly
. Yes, he reduces his offensive potential due to the costs, but he can prevent major offensive against him, even while stunned. The cast time should have been on IL, not the facet. Just like on warrior.I think mesmer pistil is one of the better telegraphed ranged weapons, yeah it might need some more of a difference between the skills but as skills they are different enough and the sound queues help me allot ( the issue i have with it is stealth into the skill since the telegraphs play after they hit but that is general issue with stealth for everything) .Now if you want really kitten telegraphs go into ranger longbow or shortbow all of the skills look the same, there is a small deviation between them but it is too negligible the kitten cc looks like a basic attack, good thing is that your average ranger is predictable as kitten and does 4 2 or 3 4 2, too bad they can do it off screen.

As a someone that made ranger I can attest to the fact that usually nobody sees lb4 coming as it has super far reach, no real tell.as for the 4->2 combo... there is nothing else lol, at best you can use barrage and auto-attacks while waiting for dodges.The basic attack is one of the strongest of the game, i'm not sure why though it is not a basic attack weapon, feels weird since it doesn't leave room for the rest of the weapons, for example axe is the basic attack weapon on ranger but is worse then LB.

This is not true. Axe autoattack deals about the same dps as Long Range Shot at 900 range before taking the might stacking into consideration. When factoring in the additional dmg from the might it deals more dmg than LB auto at max. range (up to like 50% more at close range). And it hits 2 targets by default, unlike LB. MH axe lacks defense, which is why it typically isn't used in glassy builds, but much better than LB for tanky boon heavy builds (boonbeast/tanky core ranger).And yet the bread and butter of the axe is the basic attack while LB has comparable damage while having all other abilities being strong also.3 skills look the about the same on one weapon, one is CCs that is followed by fyck your life skill. The same can be said about rifle on warrior, but this one does fuck all generally and no one cares that it has bad animations.Different handwavy motions are not good telegraph on that high passed game, on slower passed it would work but we have reached the point of no return.
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@Vancho.8750 said:

@Avatar.3568 said:Infuse light is fine, the glow is bright and you can watch the buff bar when the heal utility is used you know he can use glint.It's the same with the fear staff skill, and the mirage stun, all 0,5 seconds cast time is enaugh, increasing cast time makes slower and dump game more down, the animation is good visible even when mirage is stealthed.

big lolas mirage I land 80% stuns, and 20% that I miss is not due to enemy specifically target dodging but rando dodging/blocking it, maybe 5% of the times I fire it you can react, but when you add it p5->blink or stealth then its a real problem

Same thing with IL, what are you gonna do? stop attacking rev? the moment you try to connect a big hit they use their INSTANT reverse damage button, and even if they convert nothing the skill still heals about 4k hp in total.remove cast time from facet of light, give IL cast time off 0,25s and now there is actual counterplay.Its never a problem to react to it, but the fact that by the time you react its already too late and it healed for 7k+ AND you cant attack.

Agree here.

Pistol 5 has the same animation as pistol 4. The only difference is the projectile(s): Which is clearly visible for the illusion, but very quick for the stun. Either reduce projectile speed or give a glow for the stun to differentiate the animations.

I want to add: This shows some unbiased argument, arguing against ones own main class, thanks @Leonidrex.5649.

Infuse Light is still a terrible design. A revenant can activate the facet and basically prevent enemies from bursting him, because he can turn it all into full healing
instantly
. Yes, he reduces his offensive potential due to the costs, but he can prevent major offensive against him, even while stunned. The cast time should have been on IL, not the facet. Just like on warrior.I think mesmer pistil is one of the better telegraphed ranged weapons, yeah it might need some more of a difference between the skills but as skills they are different enough and the sound queues help me allot ( the issue i have with it is stealth into the skill since the telegraphs play after they hit but that is general issue with stealth for everything) .Now if you want really kitten telegraphs go into ranger longbow or shortbow all of the skills look the same, there is a small deviation between them but it is too negligible the kitten cc looks like a basic attack, good thing is that your average ranger is predictable as kitten and does 4 2 or 3 4 2, too bad they can do it off screen.

As a someone that made ranger I can attest to the fact that usually nobody sees lb4 coming as it has super far reach, no real tell.as for the 4->2 combo... there is nothing else lol, at best you can use barrage and auto-attacks while waiting for dodges.The basic attack is one of the strongest of the game, i'm not sure why though it is not a basic attack weapon, feels weird since it doesn't leave room for the rest of the weapons, for example axe is the basic attack weapon on ranger but is worse then LB.

to be honest LB mainly deals damage from 2 and 1, so yes. It IS auto-attack weapon.3 is stealth, 4 is CC used to set up 2 most of the times, and 5 is areadenial, and middle finger to zoo necros and mesmers, realistically you wont get more then 2 ticks onto people. It is a good skill but its not a bread and butter.Meanwhile axe, arguably has all bad skills, 1 is amazing, 2 is legit fucking useless, and 3 is basic attack but aoe with some utility condis, hardly worth the loss of range and other utility.If devs wanted axe to be usable, they should probably work on axe 2, as having a skill that is worse then basic attack is unacceptable IMO.Axe is in a same bot as mesmer scepter, where weapon tried to be usefull for both power and condi and ended up being medicore/bad for both.

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Axe on Ranger is pretty dope, since you play it with dagger offhand you have 1 extra dodge and automatically more defense than in lb, axe 1 gives nice might, axe 3 gives aoe chill and weakness. Lb is more for roamer oriented stuff, while axe dagger pretty solid sidenode weapons are

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