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Squad merging to troll people


paddystar.2879

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@Gargoyle First of all it was a typical pug, with no healer or condi cleanse, so I figured it was each man for himself. To clarify by playing bad I meant being lazy on rotations and downing more oft than others cos of carelessness; not trying purposefully to die every chance I got. I don't see how that's an issue, as I have carried worse players on say swamp t4, where a guy continuously dies to bloom no matter what we do. In this scenario I might trash talk the inept player and refuse to res him along with others, but would not randomly call kicks without stating a reason beforehand.

The issue about players kicking me on sight arises prevalently in raids, where holding long-standing personal grudges is commonplace enough to be a staple for pugs. This is an instanced content separate from fractals, as the atmosphere is more tense and strained in general. If you play bad here, you can expect to be replaced without warning. The thing of it is also that you might also be kicked on join from someone whom you never play with before, simply for showing up with your nametag. This is what I believe you mean when you say an individual is 'kicked on sight' also. The issue here or the reason it's unfair, is that it's textbook example of labeling and predetermination bias, for example backbiting and inferring from rumors.

tl;dr fractals in t4 and raids are not the same thing at all, so I'm not sure where you drew the comparison.

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Happened to my twice in a row, was trying to form a group to finish up a Fractals related achievement, and had the same asuran tempest join my party and merge our group, with that of a squad doing what I believe was triple trouble... Can it be made that party leader is the only one enabled to merge, and for that fact, choose fractal level. Because this is getting me annoyed.

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@Odokuro.5049 said:Happened to my twice in a row, was trying to form a group to finish up a Fractals related achievement, and had the same asuran tempest join my party and merge our group, with that of a squad doing what I believe was triple trouble... Can it be made that party leader is the only one enabled to merge, and for that fact, choose fractal level. Because this is getting me annoyed.

There are no party leaders anymore which is actually a good thing. Before that happened the "party leader" i.e. person who opened instance could not be replaced. If he got kicked the whole party would be kicked from the instance too, even if he simply DC and couldn't come back caused problems as then it was possible to kick them without everyone else getting kicked, but then a new person joining could not join the instance so the party would either had to start over or 4-man the rest anyway.The opener also could not change characters once inside as that would kick everyone out too so it was a huge con both ways.

On the other hand if we leave it to the squad leader to decide to allow the merger it wouldn't really do much. As how is the squad leader suppose to know the party does not want to join his squad? It might however give us time to kick the troll before the squad leader approves it.

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@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

@Fallesafe.5932 said:

@paddystar.2879 said:HelloMost of us have heard of it already, but it is possible to merge a group with a squad which will result in the teammembers being kicked out of the fractal instance.Today i have been griefed by this method, while our group has cleared the Reactor fractal and was waiting at the boss for the 5th person in lfg.

An easy hotfix for this (temporarily) would be disabling squadmerging for a group. People would still be able to join squads and a group would just need to leave its current group to rejoin a squad together. This is badly needed as the griefer i have encountered has done this to many groups in lfg (discription of lfg were already things like "screw the merger").

A better solution is having to accept a squadmerge, since squadmerges are a nice mechanic but the current griefing in lfg has made opening LFG while in an instance a scary thing to do.

Also i would like to remind that this thread is not about nameshaming, i myself have screenshots of people admitting it and telling me they are "untouchable", but lets keep the discussion civil and if you have any names / screenshots post them to the support.

Just had this happen 2x in a row on Ensolyss @ 33%. Wasted almost my entire morning before work. Please fix.

I'm sorry this has happened. I have a fix that will ship with PoF.

Nice!! Thank you:)

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@HardRider.2980 said:I hope people who have done this and got reported actually get punished because it's complete a*** thing to do!

ANet will generally not disclose this sort of thing, unless it's action taken against a large group of people. I can tell you what I noticed though: several of the people doing this that I had put on my block list have not been online for a few days now. They may have been "actioned" or they're just not playing, or maybe invisible. Make of it what you will. :)

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@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

@Fallesafe.5932 said:

@paddystar.2879 said:HelloMost of us have heard of it already, but it is possible to merge a group with a squad which will result in the teammembers being kicked out of the fractal instance.Today i have been griefed by this method, while our group has cleared the Reactor fractal and was waiting at the boss for the 5th person in lfg.

An easy hotfix for this (temporarily) would be disabling squadmerging for a group. People would still be able to join squads and a group would just need to leave its current group to rejoin a squad together. This is badly needed as the griefer i have encountered has done this to many groups in lfg (discription of lfg were already things like "screw the merger").

A better solution is having to accept a squadmerge, since squadmerges are a nice mechanic but the current griefing in lfg has made opening LFG while in an instance a scary thing to do.

Also i would like to remind that this thread is not about nameshaming, i myself have screenshots of people admitting it and telling me they are "untouchable", but lets keep the discussion civil and if you have any names / screenshots post them to the support.

Just had this happen 2x in a row on Ensolyss @ 33%. Wasted almost my entire morning before work. Please fix.

I'm sorry this has happened. I have a fix that will ship with PoF.

Did the fix ship? It wasn't in the patch notes.

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This should be fixed. No patch note because I didn't write one (my bad).

As of now, you must confirm a squad merge when merging party > squad.

Squad > squad can still merge without confirmation if there is no commander squad leader.

Party > party can still merge without confirmation.

Let me know if you have any other issues relating to this.

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@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:This should be fixed. No patch note because I didn't write one (my bad).

As of now, you must confirm a squad merge when merging party > squad.

Squad > squad can still merge without confirmation if there is no commander squad leader.

Party > party can still merge without confirmation.

Let me know if you have any other issues relating to this.

Why can't we have a confirmation option when merging one squad with another? Also, is there an option to lock LFG?

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@Miss.5930 said:

@"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:This should be fixed. No patch note because I didn't write one (my bad).

As of now, you must confirm a squad merge when merging party > squad.

Squad > squad can still merge without confirmation if there is no commander squad leader.

Party > party can still merge without confirmation.

Let me know if you have any other issues relating to this.

Why can't we have a confirmation option when merging one squad with another? Also, is there an option to lock LFG?

"if there's no commander squad leader". So, if you wish to avoid the problem, have a commander.

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@Greyling.4768 said:This is not working for squads with commanders. I just had my squad, which I was tagged up and commanding, merged with another squad that also had a commander. Neither of us got a confirmation request.

I am not able to reproduce this internally. If I have 4 clients separated into two squads, both with a commander leader, only the commander can initiate a merge. I also confirmed this to be the case on live thanks to some players testing it for me. There could be an edge case that we missed, if anyone can figure out a way to reproduce this please PM me (Don't post it here) how you did it so I can work on a fix. As of now, without reproducing it I can't fix it.

Parties merging into parties is getting looked at separately.

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@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

@Greyling.4768 said:This is not working for squads with commanders. I just had my squad, which I was tagged up and commanding, merged with another squad that also had a commander. Neither of us got a confirmation request.

I am not able to reproduce this internally. If I have 4 clients separated into two squads, both with a commander leader, only the commander can initiate a merge. I also confirmed this to be the case on live thanks to some players testing it for me. There could be an edge case that we missed, if anyone can figure out a way to reproduce this please PM me (Don't post it here) how you did it so I can work on a fix. As of now, without reproducing it I can't fix it.

Parties merging into parties is getting looked at separately.

Haven't been able to repro, but had two instances of this happen yesterday.

Incident 1:Squad 1 - Taxi for Dragon's Stand meta - me as commanderSquad 2 - Auric Basin octovine squad - commander name unknownResult: Someone merged our squads. Squad 2 commander was demoted, and players from squad 2 were kicked to equal player count to 50. Both myself and the other commander are confused as to what happened, as there were no prompts.

Incident 2:Squad 1 - Former Dragon's Stand lane squad, server in respite phase - commander still taggedSquad 2 - Dragon's Stand lane squad from a failing server - commander still taggedResult: Someone merged our squads. Commander from squad 1 and other squad 1 players are kicked to make room for squad 2 players. Squad 2 commander is confused, while squad 1 commander laughs it off in /map while wondering how someone kicked the commander (him) out of his own squad.

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@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:

@Greyling.4768 said:This is not working for squads with commanders. I just had my squad, which I was tagged up and commanding, merged with another squad that also had a commander. Neither of us got a confirmation request.

I am not able to reproduce this internally. If I have 4 clients separated into two squads, both with a commander leader, only the commander can initiate a merge. I also confirmed this to be the case on live thanks to some players testing it for me. There could be an edge case that we missed, if anyone can figure out a way to reproduce this please PM me (Don't post it here) how you did it so I can work on a fix. As of now, without reproducing it I can't fix it.

Parties merging into parties is getting looked at separately.

Last night my fractal group and I were doing a CM100, when the WvW commander of a party member (who apparently wasn't paying attention to the fact that he was not only in a group, but in a fractal,) attempted to merge our full party into her squad. Confirmation or no, when you're in the middle of a heated fight, all it takes is one person to mis-click. Why would a 5 person full group in a fractal instance EVER want to merge into a squad? There shouldn't be a confirmation, it just shouldn't happen if you're a party in a party sized instance (or in a full party/squad in any instance).

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@Benjamin Arnold.3457 said:This has been moved to the top of my priority list, and I am investigating code solutions as we speak. I have contacted CS but I can't comment on any action that would be taken against the perpetrators, both because I don't know, and because it isn't for me to say.

I just noticed you talked about the confirmation prompt idea already. Ignore post below. But a commander's subgroup got merged with another subgroup in Crystal Oasis, without their approval. If I learn more over time, I'll send a DM.

Imo, I would do this:Squad 2 wants to merge with Squad 1 in LFG. Have Squad 1's Commander receive an approval message.

If Squad 1 Commander agrees, allow the merger.If Squad 1 Commander disagrees, do not allow the merger.

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I had this happen to me Wednesday in Crystal Oasis. I was leading a squad for one legendary bounty and suddenly we were merged with another squad for another bounty. I did not instigate it, nor was I given any sort of prompt to confirm. Same for the other commander, we were suddenly just merged. It caused a bit of confusion and some folks thought one group was trolling another. We ended up just leaving them merged and breaking into separate sub-squads. We were fortunate that we were not doing instance content, this would have been really frustrating otherwise.

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Maybe is a bit off from the topic but I like to add that my automated Tournament were trolled with merge-ing parties with squads several weeks ago.

The whole story is: my team were registered on a AT, 1 minute left to AT begins when a squad invitation appeared. 3 person of my team misread the alert pop up and they joined to the squad. Result: no tournament for us.

Maybe is our fault by no-reading the alert but It should be a team decision to avoid this kind of trolling

trully sorry if I'd already post this on sPvP sub forum, but, I would like that sPvP to be included in the working solution

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