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If the commander can come back to life so should Trahearne and Vlast


Touchme.1097

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Dear ArenaNet,I really want to bring to your attention this valid claim of mine because as a male GW2 player I feel there is a lack of good male major characters and obviously good male dragons.You killed off Trahearne and Vlast in two expansions giving me no chance to dive deep into these two characters and I feel there is a lack of male representation among the NPC.If the commander can come back to life then it's valid to claim that both the NPCs I have mentioned above can come back to life and I, as a commander, feel the need to rescue them from oblivion.Please stop killing off major male characters and add some variety by bringing back my sylvari bro and poor Vlast who sacrificed himself to save the commander.I don't understand why only Aurene, Glint's daughter, should be the only good elder dragon in this game, it's just not right.

Regards

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@Touchme.1097 said:Dear ArenaNet,I really want to bring to your attention this valid claim of mine because as a male GW2 player I feel there is a lack of good male major characters and obviously good male dragons.You killed off Trahearne and Vlast in two expansions giving me no chance to dive deep into these two characters and I feel there is a lack of male representation among the NPC.If the commander can come back to life then it's valid to claim that both the NPCs I have mentioned above can come back to life and I, as a commander, feel the need to rescue them from oblivion.Please stop killing off major male characters and add some variety by bringing back my sylvari bro and poor Vlast who sacrificed himself to save the commander.I don't understand why only Aurene, Glint's daughter, should be the only good elder dragon in this game, it's just not right.

RegardsTrahearne should return to help us all, i did like the character.

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@anduriell.6280 said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:Boys drool and girls rule, sorry.

Also, most of the player population greatly disliked Trahearne. It is a shame Vlast had such a sad life that ended as soon as we met him.

There are lots of prominent male characters that are fine. And if the forums are to be believed, everyone hates the female characters too, so no one is really winning. Personally I think most of the cast is fine, we just need a more consistent writing team.

Not disagreeing with you about the rest but Trahearne was great. It was a very interesting character, with a good story arc. He should come back as a dragon avatar and bring Vlast with him. And both together help us to defeat the dragons.

'Trahearne was great' has not been a popular opinion for the vast majority of the game's history. If the opinion is changing over time in an 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' sort of way, so be it. But leading up to Heart of Thorns, the community was begging for Trahearne to be executed for 'stealing the spotlight' (which is something the forum/reddit communities still do regarding... most main characters lol).

Personally, I didn't mind the character. I thought the voice acting/direction was horrendous, and therefore hated having to listen to the character speak (a problem I also have with the female Sylvari PC - sorry Jennifer Hale, love you in everything else).

While I wouldn't really mind the character returning in theory with a new voice actor or better direction, I am tired of death being a trifle in the game's setting. A lot of major deaths have lost impact because characters simply return as ghosts now. I personally did not like the Commander dying and coming back to life either. I would like death to be more final in this franchise, and characters only killed off when really necessary.

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@"Svennis.3852" said:

@"Svennis.3852" said:Boys drool and girls rule, sorry.

Also, most of the player population greatly disliked Trahearne. It is a shame Vlast had such a sad life that ended as soon as we met him.

There are lots of prominent male characters that are fine. And if the forums are to be believed, everyone hates the female characters too, so no one is really winning. Personally I think most of the cast is fine, we just need a more consistent writing team.

Not disagreeing with you about the rest but Trahearne was great. It was a very interesting character, with a good story arc. He should come back as a dragon avatar and bring Vlast with him. And both together help us to defeat the dragons.

'Trahearne was great' has not been a popular opinion for the vast majority of the game's history. If the opinion is changing over time in an 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' sort of way, so be it. But leading up to Heart of Thorns, the community was
begging
for Trahearne to be executed for 'stealing the spotlight' (which is something the forum/reddit communities still do regarding... most main characters lol).

Personally, I didn't mind the character. I thought the voice acting/direction was
horrendous
, and therefore hated having to listen to the character speak (a problem I also have with the female Sylvari PC - sorry Jennifer Hale, love you in everything else).

While I wouldn't really mind the character returning in theory with a new voice actor or better direction, I am tired of death being a trifle in the game's setting. A lot of major deaths have lost impact because characters simply return as ghosts now. I personally did not like the Commander dying and coming back to life either. I would like death to be more final in this franchise, and characters only killed off when really necessary.

I think death being the majority of solutions for retiring a character has become stale in general at this point. Very few main characters get a chance to simply just leave the storyline alive and retiring to more lighter life simply because the current storyline is in constant need of them unless they are killed off during the line of duty fighting the Elder Dragons or current threat.

This is partly why I am glad the Elder Dragon Saga is closing soon either during End of Dragons or the living story after it because that means the current characters can all finally retire themeselves without needing to be killed off and put into a position where they can make a cameo or mention once in a while in the new storyline set after the Elder Dragon Saga.

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Unlike Trahearne and especially Vlast, the Commander's body was still intact. In addition, they were resurrected a short time after death through a very special circumstance.

Could they have been resurrected? maybe in Trahearne's cast, no in Vlast's, due to the body's condition.

Can they now, years later? No.

Should they? No. Let's not make death be even less of a hurdle. Maybe they can return as ghosts for cameos.

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@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Unlike Trahearne and especially Vlast, the Commander's body was still intact. In addition, they were resurrected a short time after death through a very special circumstance.

Could they have been resurrected? maybe in Trahearne's cast, no in Vlast's, due to the body's condition.

Can they now, years later? No.

Should they? No. Let's not make death be even less of a hurdle. Maybe they can return as ghosts for cameos.

Are you in charge to dictate the rules of resurrection or am I missing something?

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@Touchme.1097 said:

@Konig Des Todes.2086 said:Unlike Trahearne and especially Vlast, the Commander's body was still intact. In addition, they were resurrected a short time after death through a very special circumstance.

Could they have been resurrected?
maybe
in Trahearne's cast, no in Vlast's, due to the body's condition.

Can they now, years later? No.

Should they? No. Let's not make death be even less of a hurdle. Maybe they can return as ghosts for cameos.

Are you in charge to dictate the rules of resurrection or am I missing something?

No, but the LORE of the GAME dictates the rules of resurrection, and that is where Konig is getting his explanation.

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"A lack of good major male characters"

Uhh, hate to burst your bubble but we have.....

Braham, Ryland, Rytlock, Bangar, Gorrik, Canach, Logan, Lord Faren, and Efram.... 9 major male characters I can think of off the top of my head. If you argue that "well, all those guys SUCK," it makes no difference--that is your subjective opinion. The fact is, there is plenty of representation of male characters from all races and of all personality types."I want male characters that I PERSONALLY LIKE" is a valid want. However, your dislike of the current male cast doesn't mean there isn't enough/equal male representation.

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@"Weindrasi.3805" said:"A lack of good major male characters"

Uhh, hate to burst your bubble but we have.....

Braham, Ryland, Rytlock, Bangar, Gorrik, Canach, Logan, Lord Faren, and Efram.... 9 major male characters I can think of off the top of my head. If you argue that "well, all those guys SUCK," it makes no difference--that is your subjective opinion. The fact is, there is plenty of representation of male characters from all races and of all personality types."I want male characters that I PERSONALLY LIKE" is a valid want. However, your dislike of the current male cast doesn't mean there isn't enough/equal male representation.

I am not talking about all the NPCs in the game, I am pointing my finger to the main NPCs who follow the commander in almost every story chapter, I have played all the available story PoF has to offer and I am currently playing LS2 and there are always Taimi, Caithe, Kasmeer, Marjory and Rox as female characters and Braham, Canach and Rytlock as male NPCs.It's wrong to talk about characters who don't actively take part on the story as often as these ones, and some NPCs are classified as males even though they shouldn't like Scruffy which is a construct.A few of the ones you mentioned have already turned bad guys and male characters are used predominantly as villains.We have only 1 female good elder dragon in the story, because Vlast has been butchered instead of being developed deeply.

I can name a lot more female characters who haven't turned villains and are still alive, it makes no sense in this discussion to name characters that have not been developed deeply as much as the ones I have listed for you, so sorry if I have just killed your excitement.I STRONGLY think this game is in dire need of more deeply developed good male characters and good male elder dragons.

Do you want to know what I don't like? I don't like NPCs who behave like teenagers, I am tired of listening to the annoying voice of *Taimi and the Kasmeer+Marjory sisteromance. Enough boys, Anet, give this game proper manly NPCs.

*No offence to the voice actress who plays Taimi, she is a nice lady and I send her my blessings, but her voice in every story feels overwhelming.

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In terms of male characters to bro it up with, I do think rytlock and canach are supposed to fill that role. But I do wish logan would be around more to lead things and be bros with me and rytlock and complain about magic and rah rah rah. In fact logan makes for a great replacement for trahearne imo, but doesnt make nearly as much of an appearance. I just wanna follow that gleaming armour into battle and not have to be one that pushes the narrative and solves everyone's problems and character arcs.

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@Fipmip.7219 said:In terms of male characters to bro it up with, I do think rytlock and canach are supposed to fill that role. But I do wish logan would be around more to lead things and be bros with me and rytlock and complain about magic and rah rah rah. In fact logan makes for a great replacement for trahearne imo, but doesnt make nearly as much of an appearance. I just wanna follow that gleaming armour into battle and not have to be one that pushes the narrative and solves everyone's problems and character arcs.

I think the Logan not being more involved in the story despite being the new leader of the Pact is due to how they don't want to repeat the same mistake they had with Trehearne. They even provided the lore reason for that before Logan was chosen to make it clear to the player base Logan will not be involved alot unless necessary.

One of the reasons why Trehearne became a focus of stealing credit by players is how he was placed as a constant companion in everything the Commander did. It left a feeling that the Commander was more of a side-kick for Trehearne when Trehearne was meant more to be the side-kick that provided us allies and dealt with the politics every player will hate to deal with while the Commander did the more physical tasks.

Of course now with Trehearne gone, the Commander is stuck dealing with the politics with the physical tasks now. Atleast the Commander does not have to deal with the piles of paperwork that is involved with the politics and approval of missions since the Commander has basically retired from the Pact to be a member of Dragon's Watch. Though by military standards, the Commander still holds the rank Commander due to how a person who retires will retire with the rank they were in.

However, as of now even Dragon's watch is slowly splitting up now as we get closer to the end of the Elder Dragon storyline just around the corner in EoD or the living world after EoD.

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@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@Fipmip.7219 said:In terms of male characters to bro it up with, I do think rytlock and canach are supposed to fill that role. But I do wish logan would be around more to lead things and be bros with me and rytlock and complain about magic and rah rah rah. In fact logan makes for a great replacement for trahearne imo, but doesnt make nearly as much of an appearance. I just wanna follow that gleaming armour into battle and not have to be one that pushes the narrative and solves everyone's problems and character arcs.

I think the Logan not being more involved in the story despite being the new leader of the Pact is due to how they don't want to repeat the same mistake they had with Trehearne. They even provided the lore reason for that before Logan was chosen to make it clear to the player base Logan will not be involved alot unless necessary.

One of the reasons why Trehearne became a focus of stealing credit by players is how he was placed as a constant companion in everything the Commander did. It left a feeling that the Commander was more of a side-kick for Trehearne when Trehearne was meant more to be the side-kick that provided us allies and dealt with the politics every player will hate to deal with while the Commander did the more physical tasks.

Of course now with Trehearne gone, the Commander is stuck dealing with the politics with the physical tasks now. Atleast the Commander does not have to deal with the piles of paperwork that is involved with the politics and approval of missions since the Commander has basically retired from the Pact to be a member of Dragon's Watch. Though by military standards, the Commander still holds the rank Commander due to how a person who retires will retire with the rank they were in.

However, as of now even Dragon's watch is slowly splitting up now as we get closer to the end of the Elder Dragon storyline just around the corner in EoD or the living world after EoD.

Yes, I was more just giving my personal opinion. I'm aware that people didn't like trahearne, but In my first playthrough 4 years ago, before I looked at the forums, I never disliked trahearne and was sad at his death.

I never thought of trahearne as stealing credit. If you think about the original story, he organizes the pact and cleanses orr. The commander is sent on missions by trahearne and is generally used as a beat stick to clear out key objectives and kill high ranking enemies. The backup, the means, the intel, is mostly provided by allies. You get to be the sword that kills the foe, but you were wielded by trahearne. I think perhaps people might have whined due to not getting enough recognition in the dialogue, perhaps being referred to as the dragon slayer might have helped. But I never truly understood it. In any case, I think giving full reigns to the commander wasn't really the right move. the commander at this stage feels more like a plot device than a character.

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I think the Trahearne hate is just unreasonable, he never stole the commander's glory he actually congratulates him more than once. The reason why people hated him is because he was in command as a Marshal and some people don't like to be the second in command, unfortunately that is how hierarchy works, even in life and there is nothing wrong with it. I have been quite happy to have him as my superior as he was taking all the responsabilities of leading an army for me.

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@Touchme.1097 said:I think the Trahearne hate is just unreasonable, he never stole the commander's glory he actually congratulates him more than once. The reason why people hated him is because he was in command as a Marshal and some people don't like to be the second in command, unfortunately that is how hierarchy works, even in life and there is nothing wrong with it. I have been quite happy to have him as my superior as he was taking all the responsabilities of leading an army for me.

Well some of the hate was certainly from not being the main leader of the Pact. However, that may have been more due to now understanding the responsibilities of what being the leader of the Pact meant.

Some people think being a leader of the organization in a fantasy story means doing whatever they want and letting subordinates do all the unimportant work for you which is not how things work when you're a leader of a entire organization. There is a lot of paperwork to approve missions and talent to be added into the organization or not approve them, diplomatic negotiations, trading management, public relation development for the organization, recruit management, hiring the right people to help manage certain resource sections of the organization, direct meetings, determining types of research for the organization, and etc involved that is far from the physical labor of direct combat. Something Trehearne was far more use to than the Commander who is more use to direct combat no matter the origins. This kind of position would have also prevented the Commander from being free to do the things he/she does as a adventurer. I think a lot of people never recognized Trehearne put himself in a position where he is rarely free to do what he wants in the organization due to all these management tasks required of a Organization leader so the Commander can be in a position to do as he/she pleased for so long until the Commander is summoned for Pact missions.

Logan of course has experience in these things due to his former position as leader of the Seraph so he is fine with sitting behind a desk most of his workdays filling papers until a more direct action is needed.

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@Touchme.1097 said:I think the Trahearne hate is just unreasonable, he never stole the commander's glory he actually congratulates him more than once. The reason why people hated him is because he was in command as a Marshal and some people don't like to be the second in command, unfortunately that is how hierarchy works, even in life and there is nothing wrong with it. I have been quite happy to have him as my superior as he was taking all the responsabilities of leading an army for me.

I feel that it just became a meme than people eventually started to take seriously for some reason.

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Vlast exploded.. and Traherne was twisted and corrupted physically into Mordremoth..Neither of those conditions I would say are reversible, especially this long after they died.

If you could just erase deaths like that then why not Glint?, Why not Snaff?, Why not Zhaitan?.. it's not a good idea to mess with that stuff in my opinion.

That said I would like to explore more into the afterlife concepts of this universe.During Kralkatorriks reign of destruction we saw not only some of the chaos he waged in the mists but also countless fallen heroes, including Eir, Gwen and Snaff rallying around Glint and fighting against Kralkatorrik from beyond the grave.We may not have seen them but Vlast, Traherne, Tybolt, Sieran, Forgal, Riannoc, Brechnar Ironhammer and countless others could have been there as well.

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