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Why Rune Of The Trapper Needs To Go - Short Video Inside


Trevor Boyer.6524

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  1. Notice at start of video, there is no enemy Guardian anywhere near me on the mini map before he appears on me for a stealth gank.
  2. When he stealths to disengage me, I did later notice in the video that he had gone left and blipped on the map near my Necro at far. The only possible way he could have done this without the use of speedhack or telehack, is with JI to clip through the mountain side to the Necro. If Rune Of The Trapper can provide him that much superspeed and stealth to be able to do that legitimately without the use of hack programs, that's way way too much disengage/rotational power. That's DP Thief like rotational power when SB#5 was only 5 init.
  3. Dragonhunters should not be able to gank, rotate, and disengage like a Thief. End of story.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/872782404

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@Swagger.1459 said:Are you aware that a guardian can port?

You have a reveal, and it was on your skill bar too.. so use it maybe?

You almost killed that guarding... even with stealth... even with super speed... and the player still needed to run away... yet we need to nerf trapper runes?

Are you aware that I already gave a full insightful explanation about the use of JI in this situation?

Read the post, listen to the audio in the video.

The Sic Em was on cool down my good dude, and even when you do use it, it is a 10s reveal per 28s use.

The point being is that Rune Of The Trapper allowing a long enough of a disengage to even be able to walk closely enough to clip through the mountain to the necro at far, is just too much gank/rotational/disengage power for what is designed to be one of the heaviest attribute tied bruisers in the game.

Any stark defense you toss at this is kind of silly.

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@Abyssisis.3971 said:Looks to me like the enemy DH teleported to you with JI you as you took 1 burn first up. No idea where it came from tho, could of been out of sight like it was when it ran from you over to their home point.

Yeah that's my point precisely. They have enough stealth/super speed to be able to pull stuff off like that. They can stealth from behind an obstruction so you can't see where they are, and they run like 1500 range in stealth and then JI at you another odd 1500 some range, and you can't see it coming. That's legit thief/mesmer styled burst play right there. The only difference is that Thief/Mesmer are glass cannon and have to target single targets, whereas the DH is a heavy bruiser who releases a massive AoE node nuke with Dragon Maw CC combined, which is very powerful now after the big nerf that removed so much stability.

Granting that kind of stealth ganking/rotational/disengage factor to one of the heaviest bruisers in the game is just broken balance no matter how you look at it. It'd be like if I could hack Smash Bros and make it so Bowser moved as fast as Sonic The Hedgehog. Why would anyone play anything else other than Bowser at that point, a heavy who moved as fast as a light? aaaaaaand that is exactly why we are seeing a ridiculous DH class representation right now.

DH isn't the problem. Rune Of The Trapper is the problem.

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@Ragnar.4257 said:I mean, I don' t disagree that trapper rune needs to go.

But this clip, shows you able to 1-shot a guy from ranged, and then able to face-tank a full unload of a burn-DH's burst and walk out of it just fine while the DH barely escapes with 10% HP.That's called bias. A lot of players in the game have the opinion that they are that good that they should have a counter to everything. That's not how the game works. There is no apex predator and having the tools to escape an unfavored situation is already some kind of counter if you look at the bigger picture of the match.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Are you aware that a guardian can port?

You have a reveal, and it was on your skill bar too.. so use it maybe?

You almost killed that guarding... even with stealth... even with super speed... and the player still needed to run away... yet we need to nerf trapper runes?

Are you aware that I already gave a full insightful explanation about the use of JI in this situation?

Read the post, listen to the audio in the video.

The Sic Em was on cool down my good dude, and even when you do use it, it is a 10s reveal per 28s use.

The point being is that Rune Of The Trapper allowing a long enough of a disengage to even be able to walk closely enough to clip through the mountain to the necro at far, is just too much gank/rotational/disengage power for what is designed to be one of the heaviest attribute tied bruisers in the game.

Any stark defense you toss at this is kind of silly.

So you are asking the devs to nerf trapper runes based off of a video where the player using trapper runes had to run away from you to survive?

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@"Ragnar.4257" said:I mean, I don' t disagree that trapper rune needs to go.

But this clip, shows you able to 1-shot a guy from ranged, and then able to face-tank a full unload of a burn-DH's burst and walk out of it just fine while the DH barely escapes with 10% HP.

  1. I didn't "Face Tank" anything, I used a block skill. In fact, I had to burn every resource I had to not die, and even then I only walked away from his stealth gank with a sliver of my health pool.
  2. I didn't "walk out of it fine" I was at like 3% health after it happened.

Might want to reassess your evaluation of what happened there.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@"Ragnar.4257" said:I mean, I don' t disagree that trapper rune needs to go.

But this clip, shows you able to 1-shot a guy from ranged, and then able to face-tank a full unload of a burn-DH's burst and walk out of it just fine while the DH barely escapes with 10% HP.
  1. I didn't "Face Tank" anything, I used a block skill. In fact, I had to burn every resource I had to not die, and even then I only walked away from his stealth gank with a sliver of my health pool.
  2. I didn't "walk out of it fine" I was at like 3% health after it happened.

Might want to reassess your evaluation of what happened there.

Oh, so if you use block skills, it doesn't count as face-tanking. Nice, I'll remember that for next QQ thread about Aegis.

And yet, by the end of the engagement (before OOC reset) you're basically back at full HP while the DH is still down at 10%.

Again, I don't disagree with removing trapper rune, I just think it's a strange clip to try and show how OP it is.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:Looks to me like the enemy DH teleported to you with JI you as you took 1 burn first up. No idea where it came from tho, could of been out of sight like it was when it ran from you over to their home point.

Yeah that's my point precisely. They have enough stealth/super speed to be able to pull stuff off like that. They can stealth from behind an obstruction so you can't see where they are, and they run like 1500 range in stealth and then JI at you another odd 1500 some range, and you can't see it coming. That's legit thief/mesmer styled burst play right there. The only difference is that Thief/Mesmer are glass cannon and have to target single targets, whereas the DH is a heavy bruiser who releases a massive AoE node nuke with Dragon Maw CC combined, which is very powerful now after the big nerf that removed so much stability.

Granting that kind of stealth ganking/rotational/disengage factor to one of the heaviest bruisers in the game is just broken balance no matter how you look at it. It'd be like if I could hack Smash Bros and make it so Bowser moved as fast as Sonic The Hedgehog. Why would anyone play anything else other than Bowser at that point, a heavy who moved as fast as a light? aaaaaaand that is exactly why we are seeing a ridiculous DH class representation right now.

DH isn't the problem. Rune Of The Trapper is the problem.

I’m all for the removal of stealth from trapper runes/stealth in general lol, but I doubt it will solve any issues with DH as a lot of the complains are coming from it being a spamming play style with lots of burn stacks and being too easy to play for how much damage it causes.

Is rune of the trapper broken on rangers? I never hear any complaints about rangers using it, just DH using it.

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@Abyssisis.3971 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:Looks to me like the enemy DH teleported to you with JI you as you took 1 burn first up. No idea where it came from tho, could of been out of sight like it was when it ran from you over to their home point.

Yeah that's my point precisely. They have enough stealth/super speed to be able to pull stuff off like that. They can stealth from behind an obstruction so you can't see where they are, and they run like 1500 range in stealth and then JI at you another odd 1500 some range, and you can't see it coming. That's legit thief/mesmer styled burst play right there. The only difference is that Thief/Mesmer are glass cannon and have to target single targets, whereas the DH is a heavy bruiser who releases a massive AoE node nuke with Dragon Maw CC combined, which is very powerful now after the big nerf that removed so much stability.

Granting that kind of stealth ganking/rotational/disengage factor to one of the heaviest bruisers in the game is just broken balance no matter how you look at it. It'd be like if I could hack Smash Bros and make it so Bowser moved as fast as Sonic The Hedgehog. Why would anyone play anything else other than Bowser at that point, a heavy who moved as fast as a light? aaaaaaand that is exactly why we are seeing a ridiculous DH class representation right now.

DH isn't the problem. Rune Of The Trapper is the problem.

I’m all for the removal of stealth from trapper runes/stealth in general lol, but I doubt it will solve any issues with DH as a lot of the complains are coming from it being a spamming play style with lots of burn stacks and being too easy to play for how much damage it causes.

Is rune of the trapper broken on rangers? I never hear any complaints about rangers using it, just DH using it.

Dragonhunter is actually quite weak without trapper runes. The burn build especially is a jokebuild with no stunbreaks, which is not even close to viable without the detargets/superspeed from Trapper Runes. So reworking/removing the rune would totally solve the problam, maybe DH would even need some buffs to compensate.Also if trapper ranger is totally fine (I find it also lame, but stealth is part of rangers kit so whatever), we could implement this radical idea of limiting which amulets and runes a class/eliespec has access to.

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@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:I mean, I don' t disagree that trapper rune needs to go.

But this clip, shows you able to 1-shot a guy from ranged, and then able to face-tank a full unload of a burn-DH's burst and walk out of it just fine while the DH barely escapes with 10% HP.
  1. I didn't "Face Tank" anything, I used a block skill. In fact, I had to burn every resource I had to not die, and even then I only walked away from his stealth gank with a sliver of my health pool.
  2. I didn't "walk out of it fine" I was at like 3% health after it happened.

Might want to reassess your evaluation of what happened there.

Oh, so if you use block skills, it doesn't count as face-tanking. Nice, I'll remember that for next QQ thread about Aegis.

And yet, by the end of the engagement (before OOC reset) you're basically back at full HP while the DH is still down at 10%.

Again, I don't disagree with removing trapper rune, I just think it's a strange clip to try and show how OP it is.

My dude you are veering quite far away from the point of the discussion about Rune Of The Trapper.

If you have something else on your mind just say it, but stop beating around the bush.

@Abyssisis.3971 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:Looks to me like the enemy DH teleported to you with JI you as you took 1 burn first up. No idea where it came from tho, could of been out of sight like it was when it ran from you over to their home point.

Yeah that's my point precisely. They have enough stealth/super speed to be able to pull stuff off like that. They can stealth from behind an obstruction so you can't see where they are, and they run like 1500 range in stealth and then JI at you another odd 1500 some range, and you can't see it coming. That's legit thief/mesmer styled burst play right there. The only difference is that Thief/Mesmer are glass cannon and have to target single targets, whereas the DH is a heavy bruiser who releases a massive AoE node nuke with Dragon Maw CC combined, which is very powerful now after the big nerf that removed so much stability.

Granting that kind of stealth ganking/rotational/disengage factor to one of the heaviest bruisers in the game is just broken balance no matter how you look at it. It'd be like if I could hack Smash Bros and make it so Bowser moved as fast as Sonic The Hedgehog. Why would anyone play anything else other than Bowser at that point, a heavy who moved as fast as a light? aaaaaaand that is exactly why we are seeing a ridiculous DH class representation right now.

DH isn't the problem. Rune Of The Trapper is the problem.

I’m all for the removal of stealth from trapper runes/stealth in general lol, but I doubt it will solve any issues with DH as a lot of the complains are coming from it being a spamming play style with lots of burn stacks and being too easy to play for how much damage it causes.

Is rune of the trapper broken on rangers? I never hear any complaints about rangers using it, just DH using it.

It's not so hot on Ranger/Druid/Soulbeast for several reasons.

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@Swagger.1459 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:Are you aware that a guardian can port?

You have a reveal, and it was on your skill bar too.. so use it maybe?

You almost killed that guarding... even with stealth... even with super speed... and the player still needed to run away... yet we need to nerf trapper runes?

Are you aware that I already gave a full insightful explanation about the use of JI in this situation?

Read the post, listen to the audio in the video.

The Sic Em was on cool down my good dude, and even when you do use it, it is a 10s reveal per 28s use.

The point being is that Rune Of The Trapper allowing a long enough of a disengage to even be able to walk closely enough to clip through the mountain to the necro at far, is just too much gank/rotational/disengage power for what is designed to be one of the heaviest attribute tied bruisers in the game.

Any stark defense you toss at this is kind of silly.

So you are asking the devs to nerf trapper runes based off of a video where the player using trapper runes had to run away from you to survive?

I think you are misunderstanding the disparity of difference between comparing build structures and comparing player skill levels.

If a very experienced player wields a trash meme build and beats a meta spec, it does not mean that the meme build is actually good, and it does not mean that the meta build wasn't overperforming, regardless of how bad the player was wielding it.

It's 2021, game is 9 years old, everyone has identified this understanding while discussing GW2 balance.

So enough with these kinds of responses. I want to hear some real substantial argument about Rune Of The Trapper. If you don't have any, maybe it is time to move onto a new thread.

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

  1. Notice at start of video, there is no enemy Guardian anywhere near me on the mini map before he appears on me for a stealth gank.
  2. When he stealths to disengage me, I did later notice in the video that he had gone left and blipped on the map near my Necro at far. The only possible way he could have done this without the use of speedhack or telehack, is with JI to clip through the mountain side to the Necro. If Rune Of The Trapper can provide him that much superspeed and stealth to be able to do that legitimately without the use of hack programs, that's way way too much disengage/rotational power. That's DP Thief like rotational power when SB#5 was only 5 init.
  3. Dragonhunters should not be able to gank, rotate, and disengage like a Thief. End of story.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/872782404

You used both your elite and sic em to kill a guy with 40% hp wich is a big missplay , you should had used only elite and then use sic em on the guardian.

If you want to reveal the guardian you can activate a randon trap .

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Sorry, but your video completely works against your argument.

You got surprised by trapper rune guardian.

You created distance and healed.

You then attacked, and almost killed, trapper rune guarding.

Trapper rune guardian then runs away in fear.

But now you want trapper runes nerfed???

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@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:I mean, I don' t disagree that trapper rune needs to go.

But this clip, shows you able to 1-shot a guy from ranged, and then able to face-tank a full unload of a burn-DH's burst and walk out of it just fine while the DH barely escapes with 10% HP.
  1. I didn't "Face Tank" anything, I used a block skill. In fact, I had to burn every resource I had to not die, and even then I only walked away from his stealth gank with a sliver of my health pool.
  2. I didn't "walk out of it fine" I was at like 3% health after it happened.

Might want to reassess your evaluation of what happened there.

Oh, so if you use block skills, it doesn't count as face-tanking. Nice, I'll remember that for next QQ thread about Aegis.

And yet, by the end of the engagement (before OOC reset) you're basically back at full HP while the DH is still down at 10%.

Again, I don't disagree with removing trapper rune, I just think it's a strange clip to try and show how OP it is.

No blocking does not qualify as face tanking, someone NOT blocking or useing any of their defensive skills and just eating the damage constitutes as face tanking. Yes pls remember such in future qq's. Oh and regarding aegis as u mentione is a mechanic that periodically passively protects the guard from face tanking damage, helps newer or unskilled players that arnt good enough yet to time their defensive skills from face tanking damage, although I guess if were talking about a passive occurring block requiring no input than it could be considered a face tanking aid :).

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Actually @Swagger.1459 the point of the video clip and this thread was to highlight the stealth gank/rotational/disengage potential that Rune Of The Trapper is granting DH. The video highlights this quite perfectly actually. The point of the video was not to compare Rangers vs. DHs. The point of the video was to display what Rune Of The Trapper was granting DH, and to express the widely received community view that DHs shouldn't be thieving & mesmering in the same way that actual thieves & mesmers are able to thief & mesmer.

@wevh.2903 The video and this thread is about Rune Of The Trapper. This is a discussion about a rune effect, not rangers, not guardians, not DHs, and not your critique on how you felt I should have zigged when I zagged. It's a discussion about Rune Of The Trapper, and whether or not people feel that a Guardian should be able to stealth gank/rotate/disengage like a Thief or not.

Also, I like this:

@Zagerus.8675 said:I agree. I don't think a rune should be augmenting a build to the point where it is functioning like a trait. If it was on heal skill use or something then it wouldn't be such a.. weird rune. xD

^ Not a bad idea. Even if they turned the 2s stealth/super speed down to only 1s, I'd be fine with that. That would let them keep their ability to detarget somewhat often and increase their disengage potential due to it, but it wouldn't allow them elongated Shadow Refuge like stealth ganking & disengaging which is where the problems begin.

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@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Abyssisis.3971 said:Looks to me like the enemy DH teleported to you with JI you as you took 1 burn first up. No idea where it came from tho, could of been out of sight like it was when it ran from you over to their home point.

Yeah that's my point precisely. They have enough stealth/super speed to be able to pull stuff off like that. They can stealth from behind an obstruction so you can't see where they are, and they run like 1500 range in stealth and then JI at you another odd 1500 some range, and you can't see it coming. That's legit thief/mesmer styled burst play right there. The only difference is that Thief/Mesmer are glass cannon and have to target single targets, whereas the DH is a heavy bruiser who releases a massive AoE node nuke with Dragon Maw CC combined, which is very powerful now after the big nerf that removed so much stability.

Granting that kind of stealth ganking/rotational/disengage factor to one of the heaviest bruisers in the game is just broken balance no matter how you look at it. It'd be like if I could hack Smash Bros and make it so Bowser moved as fast as Sonic The Hedgehog. Why would anyone play anything else other than Bowser at that point, a heavy who moved as fast as a light? aaaaaaand that is exactly why we are seeing a ridiculous DH class representation right now.

DH isn't the problem. Rune Of The Trapper is the problem.

I’m all for the removal of stealth from trapper runes/stealth in general lol, but I doubt it will solve any issues with DH as a lot of the complains are coming from it being a spamming play style with lots of burn stacks and being too easy to play for how much damage it causes.

Is rune of the trapper broken on rangers? I never hear any complaints about rangers using it, just DH using it.

Dragonhunter is actually quite weak without trapper runes.

I actually agree with this. I think they need Rune Of The Trapper to be functional. The problem is that they are too functional to the point of overperformance right now, and they are bordering on being allowed game mechanics that only thieves and mesmers should have.

The thing is though, they shouldn't be balancing DH around a single rune. If DH needs a very specific rune to be functional, that is a problem with DH just as much as it is the rune that is making it over perform.

If this is the case, DH needs fixing so that it can perform without needing a rune that turns it into a cross-class thief.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I actually agree with this. I think they need Rune Of The Trapper to be functional. The problem is that they are too functional to the point of overperformance right now, and they are bordering on being allowed game mechanics that only thieves and mesmers should have.

The thing is though, they shouldn't be balancing DH around a single rune. If DH needs a very specific rune to be functional, that is a problem with DH just as much as it is the rune that is making it over perform.

If this is the case, DH needs fixing so that it can perform without needing a rune that turns it into a cross-class thief.

If Stealth would not stack reducing the stealth time would work on the runes.While stealth can stack the DH just needs to equip 5 traps it will still have enough stealth uptime.

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Imagine dedicating 80% of your utility bar, along with a rune to get some mobility. Only to have people say you shouldn't be allowed to.

I haven't logged into the game for about two months, and even when i did play; i didn't touch this build more than a handful of games.

I agree that the rune needs to go, but not for the reasons you're giving.You're saying it gives the rotational expertise only a thief or mesmer should have. When in reality, running with perma swiftness will cover more distance faster.The stealth is the only cancerous part about the rune because it allows them to play without a stunbreak.What's more is the insane scaling of permeating wrath in teamfights.

Double cleansing sigil and 1 source of stab is enough to beat this build in a 1v1.

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

  1. Notice at start of video, there is no enemy Guardian anywhere near me on the mini map before he appears on me for a stealth gank.
  2. When he stealths to disengage me, I did later notice in the video that he had gone left and blipped on the map near my Necro at far. The only possible way he could have done this without the use of speedhack or telehack, is with JI to clip through the mountain side to the Necro. If Rune Of The Trapper can provide him that much superspeed and stealth to be able to do that legitimately without the use of hack programs, that's way way too much disengage/rotational power. That's DP Thief like rotational power when SB#5 was only 5 init.
  3. Dragonhunters should not be able to gank, rotate, and disengage like a Thief. End of story.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/872782404

If you're getting punished by a build that has 1 stunbreak there is nothing anyone can post here, nor anything anet can ever nerf that will make you semi-decent at pvp.

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@Gwaihir.1745 Once again, this thread is not about how bad or good I am, or the DH in the video, or anyone for that matter. This thread is about the basic fundamental discussion on how DHs shouldn't be able to do thieving & mesmering as well as an actual thief or mesmer.

But if you insist on redirecting the topic towards some kind of player skill evaluation, let me quote this for you incase you did not see it yet:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I think you are misunderstanding the disparity of difference between comparing build structures and comparing player skill levels.

If a very experienced player wields a trash meme build and beats a meta spec, it does not mean that the meme build is actually good, and it does not mean that the meta build wasn't overperforming, regardless of how bad the player was wielding it.

It's 2021, game is 9 years old, everyone has identified this understanding while discussing GW2 balance.

So enough with these kinds of responses. I want to hear some real substantial argument about Rune Of The Trapper. If you don't have any, maybe it is time to move onto a new thread.

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