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Deldrimor Dwarf


cweker.7824

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@Yggranya.5201

@sorudo.9054 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that
all
of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.Why? According to the lore, they were
all
, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual - If they didn't like it, still the best they could hope for was to delay the effect for a while.So, all of them eventually succumbing to the ritual is not exactly surprising or doubtful.

Even so, magic exists in the world. Maybe some sort of quest to find something that would revert the dwarves from stone? Just a thought.

they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.

I don’t think you can renounce the rite.All the dwarves, including the stone summit turned to stone.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Summit

Check under the History tab and search for the 2 headings, “Legacy” and “The Icebrood Saga”.Read both and it will explain that they all turned to stone, but there does seem to be ancient spells that could potentially reverse the effects?These stone summit tried to reverse the rite but were driven mad and corrupted by Primordus as a result of using Destroyer energy/magic to channel into their rituals.

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Tome_of_the_Rubicon

This is another link to show that it seems to be a race wide transformation.

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@sorudo.9054 said:they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.The ritual does not link to faith or nationality. It links to one of the core racial features. The only way to renounce that link would be to stop being a dwarf.

Notice, how it affected not only Deldrimor dwarves, that were willing and enacted the ritual, but the Stone Summit dwarves as well - that were definitely not willing, and have already turned to worshipping other entities (like The Great Destroyer, and later Primordius). It didn't help them, and they were still pulled along against their will. Apart from those that let themselves be corrupted (which turned them from being dwarves into dragon minions).

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Ashantara.8731" said:I am still having a hard time believing that
all
of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.Why? According to the lore, they were
all
, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual

Hmm, well, I only know the lore from the game itself, and in GW1 it was depicted in a way that showed only the Deldrimor Dwarves coming together for the ritual. I don't recall any dwarves from distant regions being part of it (or at least shown to be part of it) - or perhaps I just forgot about that vital detail?

So if this is the official lore version (as explained in novels, interviews or other outside sources), then of course you are right that there is no chance to find a non-transformed dwarf anywhere in Tyria. However... you forgot about the Stone Summit Dwarves. They were not transformed. That's why I assume that there must be more dwarven groups that weren't affected.

P.S. The GW1 Wiki even states that you have to undertake the Rite in order to transform. You are not being transformed automatically just because you are a dwarf: https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwarf

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:I am still having a hard time believing that
all
of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.Why? According to the lore, they were
all
, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual

Hmm, well, I only know the lore from the game itself, and in GW1 it was depicted in a way that showed only the Deldrimor Dwarves coming together for the ritual. I don't recall any dwarves from distant regions being part of it (or at least shown to be part of it) - or perhaps I just forgot about that vital detail?

So if this is the official lore version (as explained in novels, interviews or other outside sources), then of course you are right that there is no chance to find a non-transformed dwarf anywhere in Tyria. However... you forgot about the Stone Summit Dwarves. They were not transformed. That's why I assume that there must be more dwarven groups that weren't affected.

P.S. The GW1 Wiki even states that you have to
undertake
the Rite in order to transform. You are not being transformed automatically just because you are a dwarf:

„Eventually, all Dwarves undertook the Rite of the Great Dwarf.“https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwarf

What happened to the stone summit / a splinter group that didn‘t reunite with the deldrimor dwarves (Ingame books found in Forging Steel)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Books:_Records_of_the_Stone_Summit

Edit: From the GW2 wiki (usermade like the GW1 wiki, not everything is necessarily correct)„Eventually, all dwarves were made to undergo the rite—by force, if necessary“https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transformation_of_the_Dwarves

So, unless there‘s a dwarf group that is completely isolated from the rest, similiar to the Olmakhan, there are no flesh dwarves left.

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@"Raknar.4735" said:„Eventually, all Dwarves undertook the Rite of the Great Dwarf.“https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwarf

Yes, but that is inaccurate. We saw non-transformed Stone Summit in "Forging Steel".

So, unless there‘s a dwarf group that is completely isolated from the rest, similiar to the Olmakhan, there are no flesh dwarves left.

  1. See Stone Summit in "Forging Steel".
  2. There could be isolated Dwarves, that's what I have been saying all the time. The devs simply have to choose so.
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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@"Raknar.4735" said:„Eventually, all Dwarves undertook the Rite of the Great Dwarf.“

Yes, but that is inaccurate. We saw non-transformed Stone Summit in "Forging Steel".

So, unless there‘s a dwarf group that is completely isolated from the rest, similiar to the Olmakhan, there are no flesh dwarves left.
  1. See Stone Summit in "Forging Steel".
  2. There could be isolated Dwarves, that's what I have been saying all the time. The devs simply have to choose so.

The Stone Summit in Forging Steel is the splinter group that started to transform to stone, the ones in the Records of the Stone Summit.(When we fight them in FS, they‘re already ED minions, fully transformed.)„ The process of recording my thoughts is becoming more difficult. The stone has progressed to my wrist. There is no escaping the Rite, much as I may resist.“

They then turned to Primordus to withstand the stone corruption, but this ultimately led to themselves being turned into Primordus minions. They simply overrode the stone corruption with ED corruption.„ The mood has chilled. We speak little. There is a burning within us.This will pass. Like with the stone, we must acclimate to fire.“

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:I am still having a hard time believing that
all
of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.Why? According to the lore, they were
all
, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual

Hmm, well, I only know the lore from the game itself, and in GW1 it was depicted in a way that showed only the Deldrimor Dwarves coming together for the ritual. I don't recall any dwarves from distant regions being part of it (or at least shown to be part of it) - or perhaps I just forgot about that vital detail?No, you remember correctly. What you did miss however was that while only the Deldrimor dwarves
initiated
the Rite, the Rite itself comes from the connection to The Great Dwarf (which
all
dwarves have) and through that connection it forces itself on every dwarf out there - including those that were not present. Whether they want it or not.Rite of the Great Dwarf is in reality not the ritual that Deldrimor peformed - it is the process of transformation itself. The ritual had to be done only once (in fact, it cannot be really repeated, because it requires the Hammer of the Great Dwarf, which only the initial group had access to) but it caused an irreversible effect on the whole race, forcing every single dwarf to undergo the transformation.

So if this is the official lore version (as explained in novels, interviews or other outside sources), then of course you are right that there is no chance to find a non-transformed dwarf anywhere in Tyria. However... you forgot about the Stone Summit Dwarves. They were not transformed. That's why I assume that there must be more dwarven groups that weren't affected.I did not forget about them - i even mentioned them in my previous post, if you haven;t noticed. Stone Summit dwarves
were
transformed into stone as well. The ones that didn't are those that managed to stop the transformation via dragon corruption. Which turned them from being dwarves into dragon minions.So, yeah, you can potentially stop or prevent the Rite, but only by undergoing an even more potent transformation. Basically, in order to not become a Stone Dwarf, you need to stop being a dwarf.

P.S. The GW1 Wiki even states that you have to
undertake
the Rite in order to transform. You are not being transformed automatically just because you are a dwarf:
Yes, you have to undertake the rite, but it's not really a matter of free will. Through the connection to the Great Dwarf you are essentially
forced
into undertaking it. With high enough willpower you may be able to resist for a while, but ultimately you will succumb.
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@Ashantara.8731It is already cannon that those stone summit in the Steel Strike mission were turned to stone or partially to stone as they were still going through with the transformation.All of those stone summit that we fought were corrupted by Primordus, as he can only (as we know it) corrupt things such as stone or magma.This isolated stone summit group used Primordus’s energy/magic to reverse/stop the effects of the Rite, yet in doing so allowed them to become corrupted.This is why the stone summit were summoning destroyers to their side as well as exploding in magma when you kill them.Also, there are journal pages scattered throughout the strike mission which actually explains this.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fallen_from_the_Summit

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Books:_Records_of_the_Stone_Summit

@Ogwom.7940 said:@Yggranya.5201

@"Linken.6345" said:You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that
all
of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.Why? According to the lore, they were
all
, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual - If they didn't like it, still the best they could hope for was to delay the effect for a while.So, all of them eventually succumbing to the ritual is not exactly surprising or doubtful.

Even so, magic exists in the world. Maybe some sort of quest to find something that would revert the dwarves from stone? Just a thought.

they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.

I don’t think you can renounce the rite.All the dwarves, including the stone summit turned to stone.

Check under the History tab and search for the 2 headings, “Legacy” and “The Icebrood Saga”.Read both and it will explain that they all turned to stone, but there does seem to be ancient spells that could potentially reverse the effects?These stone summit tried to reverse the rite but were driven mad and corrupted by Primordus as a result of using Destroyer energy/magic to channel into their rituals.

This is another link to show that it seems to be a race wide transformation.

Here are the links to the information that I already provided to show the lore behind the Rite of the Great Dwarf as well as how all dwarves seemed to be affected.

@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Ashantara.8731 said:I am still having a hard time believing that
all
of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.Why? According to the lore, they were
all
, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual

Hmm, well, I only know the lore from the game itself, and in GW1 it was depicted in a way that showed only the Deldrimor Dwarves coming together for the ritual. I don't recall any dwarves from distant regions being part of it (or at least shown to be part of it) - or perhaps I just forgot about that vital detail?

The evidence isn’t always going to be in the voiced dialogue of the main story in GW1 or GW2, but it is there in the dialogue, journals, tomes, people, creatures and etc that we encounter during small side quests and so on.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.The ritual does not link to faith or nationality. It links to one of the core racial features. The only way to renounce that link would be to
stop being a dwarf
.

Notice, how it affected not only Deldrimor dwarves, that were willing and enacted the ritual, but the Stone Summit dwarves as well - that were definitely
not
willing, and have already turned to worshipping other entities (like The Great Destroyer, and later Primordius). It didn't help them, and they were still pulled along against their will. Apart from those that let themselves be corrupted (which turned them from being dwarves into dragon minions).

the stone summits are deldrimor dwarfs.......

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@Ogwom.7940 said:@Yggranya.5201

@"Linken.6345" said:You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that
all
of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.Why? According to the lore, they were
all
, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual - If they didn't like it, still the best they could hope for was to delay the effect for a while.So, all of them eventually succumbing to the ritual is not exactly surprising or doubtful.

Even so, magic exists in the world. Maybe some sort of quest to find something that would revert the dwarves from stone? Just a thought.

they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.

I don’t think you can renounce the rite.All the dwarves, including the stone summit turned to stone.

Check under the History tab and search for the 2 headings, “Legacy” and “The Icebrood Saga”.Read both and it will explain that they all turned to stone, but there does seem to be ancient spells that could potentially reverse the effects?These stone summit tried to reverse the rite but were driven mad and corrupted by Primordus as a result of using Destroyer energy/magic to channel into their rituals.

This is another link to show that it seems to be a race wide transformation.

which is all written AFTER GW2 was released, the only reason why is because Anet wanted to get rid of dwarfs altogether.

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@sorudo.9054 said:which is all written AFTER GW2 was released, the only reason why is because Anet wanted to get rid of dwarfs altogether.Actualy, it was all written before GW2 was released. That's all the info from the storyline leading to gw2, which was partially already included in Eye of the North. Although, sure, the whole Rite was most likely included into the story exactly because Anet wanted to get rid of the dwarves. Which means it's even less likely any dwarf (deldrimor or not) was able to avoid the effect.

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@sorudo.9054 said:

@"Linken.6345" said:You think living stone statues would use armor skins really?

Yeah, I am still having a hard time believing that
all
of Tyria's dwarven population got transformed.Why? According to the lore, they were
all
, regardless of faction, connected to The Great Dwarf, and it was this connection that was the basis for the transformation ritual. Basically, due to this, no dwarf was able to avoid being subject to the ritual - If they didn't like it, still the best they could hope for was to delay the effect for a while.So, all of them eventually succumbing to the ritual is not exactly surprising or doubtful.

Even so, magic exists in the world. Maybe some sort of quest to find something that would revert the dwarves from stone? Just a thought.

they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.

I don’t think you can renounce the rite.All the dwarves, including the stone summit turned to stone.

Check under the History tab and search for the 2 headings, “Legacy” and “The Icebrood Saga”.Read both and it will explain that they all turned to stone, but there does seem to be ancient spells that could potentially reverse the effects?These stone summit tried to reverse the rite but were driven mad and corrupted by Primordus as a result of using Destroyer energy/magic to channel into their rituals.

This is another link to show that it seems to be a race wide transformation.

which is all written AFTER GW2 was released, the only reason why is because Anet wanted to get rid of dwarfs altogether.

And your point is?This information was from GW1 wiki lol... so it was written way before GW2.

@sorudo.9054 said:

@sorudo.9054 said:they specifically said deldrimor dwarfs, what if there are other families that renounced the great dwarf and are living somewhere out of reach for now.a possible expansion, a legit way to add dwarfs.The ritual does not link to faith or nationality. It links to one of the core racial features. The only way to renounce that link would be to
stop being a dwarf
.

Notice, how it affected not only Deldrimor dwarves, that were willing and enacted the ritual, but the Stone Summit dwarves as well - that were definitely
not
willing, and have already turned to worshipping other entities (like The Great Destroyer, and later Primordius). It didn't help them, and they were still pulled along against their will. Apart from those that let themselves be corrupted (which turned them from being dwarves into dragon minions).

the stone summits are deldrimor dwarfs.......

No, the Stone Summit are a completely different faction of dwarves and. They used to be Deldrimor dwarves but broke away.https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dagnar_StonepateThis is King Jalis's (Leader of the Deldrimor) cousin.

a quote from this GW1 wiki page,https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Stone_Summit

"The Stone Summit is a xenophobic faction which has recently broken away from the Deldrimor dwarves while being led by Dagnar Stonepate. They have had some recent successes in seizing power and resources from the Deldrimor dwarves, most notably in claiming the vast mine of Sorrow's Furnace, which became their main base. They utilize Ice Golems and Siege Ice Golems which are created via the Heart of Ice in their war. They also have enslaved the Dredge among other creatures, such as the snow beasts, Dolyaks, Giants, and even Djinn."

Edit: changed font in quote

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@Ogwom.7940 said:@Ashantara.8731It is already cannon that those stone summit in the Steel Strike mission were turned to stone or partially to stone as they were still going through with the transformation.All of those stone summit that we fought were corrupted by Primordus, as he can only (as we know it) corrupt things such as stone or magma.This isolated stone summit group used Primordus’s energy/magic to reverse/stop the effects of the Rite, yet in doing so allowed them to become corrupted.This is why the stone summit were summoning destroyers to their side as well as exploding in magma when you kill them.Also, there are journal pages scattered throughout the strike mission which actually explains this.

Thank you, that was really helpful information.

I never took the time to read the scattered documents in peace as the circumstances of such mission instances usully stress me out too much to relax and enjoy any lore contained in them (same as raids and other group content).

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@Ashantara.8731 said:

@Ogwom.7940 said:@Ashantara.8731It is already cannon that those stone summit in the Steel Strike mission were turned to stone or partially to stone as they were still going through with the transformation.All of those stone summit that we fought were corrupted by Primordus, as he can only (as we know it) corrupt things such as stone or magma.This isolated stone summit group used Primordus’s energy/magic to reverse/stop the effects of the Rite, yet in doing so allowed them to become corrupted.This is why the stone summit were summoning destroyers to their side as well as exploding in magma when you kill them.Also, there are journal pages scattered throughout the strike mission which actually explains this.

Thank you, that was really helpful information.

I never took the time to read the scattered documents in peace as the circumstances of such mission instances usully stress me out too much to relax and enjoy any lore contained in them (same as raids and other group content).

Just for reference, you can stay behind after completion and search for the pages as the instance doesn't close until everyone has left. It means players don't have to stress and read/find them during the active mission

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Dwarves (not the stone variety). Is it not lore that the Dwarves turned themselves to stone to defend against an elder dragon? Perhaps with the defeat (or pacification) of either elder dragons, the commander can uncover a way (magic or otherwise) to restore the dwarves as their original selves. Bam...new playable race!

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@cweker.7824 said:I'm just thinking about the dwarf on the picture of the upcoming living world patch... It would be so great to be able to play them in the future. I would reroll from my norn to that kind of dwarf in a matter of sec. Dwarf Guardian, oh boy..Do you really see Arenanet adding a race without a female variant as a playable?

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@Drake.1840 said:

@"mindcircus.1506" said:Do you really see Arenanet adding a race without a female variant as a playable?Plenty of games have managed a female version (model) of dwarves. Why couldn't ANet?To this point female dwarves have been ommited from this specific franchise.From the Wiki:Male dwarves were never seen without beards, and while females existed, none were ever seen—or rather, seen and differentiated from the males.And while I agree they could totally retcon this, wouldn't it be like adding Horses?Would that be something we as fans would want?Sure they could just as easily say "female dwarves sound like the males and look just like the males." but would that go over well?If they were going to give us a new race they would go all in on tengu or they would give us some variant of the standard model used for human/norn/sylvari.The wouldn't give us a gender locked race or bother with breaking the lore for something as unpopular across almost all fantasy games as female dwarves.They'd give us playable quagann before they gave us female dwarves....and more people would play it.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"cweker.7824" said:I'm just thinking about the dwarf on the picture of the upcoming living world patch... It would be so great to be able to play them in the future. I would reroll from my norn to that kind of dwarf in a matter of sec. Dwarf Guardian, oh boy..Do you really see Arenanet adding a race without a female variant as a playable?

That depends on whether they do have a female variant or not, since we don't accurately know yet.

"Male dwarves were never seen without beards, and while females existed, none were ever seen—or rather, seen and differentiated from the males."

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dwarf

This sentence was based off of what Ogden mentioned in the first game,

"How do you know you haven't already met a female dwarf? Eh? Eh?"

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ogden_Stonehealer

From Ogden's supposed facetious quote, he could be implying that there are,1) female dwarves and we just haven't noticed them because they look like males2) female dwarves but we haven't seen or met them yet, similar to how we didn't see female charr in GW13) no female dwarves and he is just pulling our legs.

Here are some other quotes from dwarven dialogue (though due note what NPCs say is anecdotal, we would need to see evidence of female dwarves in real time to be able to determine if they actually do exist and what they would look like if they are extant),

"Does me beard look short to you? I think that nasty wife o' mine cut it while I was sleeping."

"My youngest daughter was killed in a raid by the Summit a few months ago..."

"Now now. I'm busy. Wife says our barrel of grog is empty..."

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwarven_Scout

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