unhappy mac player - [Merged]

[Fuchslein.8639]

@lare.5129 said:

@"Fuchslein.8639" said:Here in Germany there are sites like Notebooksbilliger where you can find something like that. If I google your information, I am offered some notebooks for 599€ and below. If I enter your settings with Mac, nothing under 1k is displayed.I don't find any notebook whit " ips LED-backlit display with something about 2560*1600 " , most of them only 1920 x 1080 Pixel (Full HD) or less resolution. If person don't see different - nice to way save money.

If it absolutely has to be IPS for you, then just buy overpriced Apple. But don't complain when companies react to Apple's restrictions. That's not Anet's fault, even if you want to make it look that way.

[calb.3128]

I won't pretend I'm not disappointed, even if the signs were all pointing in this direction (i.e. the lack of a clear GW2 Mac direction for the past two years). It is also understandable from a cost vs benefit perspective.

As a Mac user who happens to be a casual gamer, GW2's casual-friendly approach has always been appealing and enjoyable. That being said, no one game is important enough to me to change the rest of my setup. (Yes, I'm deep in an ecosystem that works great for me, each to their own, YMMV.) I will give Nvidia another go, but the bandwidth requirements effectively limit it to home broadband - not great as a traveller. I acknowledge the suggestion about buying a second laptop, but that's not what casual gaming has been about for me. Being able to play a game on the kit you already carry, wherever you are, without lugging around a dedicated device... that's about as far as my interest goes. And that's undoubtedly why mobile phone/tablet gaming became so popular.

While I'm nervous about starting afresh in other established games, I've dipped my toe into WoW and EO recently with heartening results. WoW already supports Metal and the new processors, while EO has announced a native client with Metal support for early this year. (Rather than comparing GW2 to WoW, EO is possibly a more helpful benchmark given it is also ran in a Wine wrapper and a smaller community.) I don't know which of these two I will stick with in the long run, but I'm glad they both have a roadmap.

Changing circumstances lead to choices for developers and customers. ANet made a choice based on understandable financial and technical reasons. My choice is to offer my custom to businesses which provide and support products on platforms convenient to me. I hold no ill will and I am thankful for the many years of fun I have had with GW2. Perhaps in time, should my priorities change, I will play again.

[loseridoit.2756]

@"Hypnowulf.7403" said:There's a solution I can see (I like solutions), and that's to compile Wine64 for Intel architecture under Rosetta, and then to run Guild Wars 2 via Wine via Rosetta. If Apple's Silicon is as good as they say, it shouldn't struggle too much. I'm not being ironic or sarcastic there. This should actually be a viable solution if the chip can pump out enough performance.

A lot of the legwork has been done getting Wine to run on Catalina by stripping out the 32-bit elements. This means you won't be able to run 32-bit apps, but thankfully GW2 has a 64-bit downloader, launcher, and client. So that's a non-issue. I imagine that anything that can be compiled for Intel Catalina can be compiled with Rosetta, yes?

This is what I've managed to piece together after some cursory looking around.

For those who're already on Intel Macs and don't plan to upgrade soon, I'd recommend running Guild Wars 2 via Wine. It'd be a bit of a fiddle to setup but the performance should be alright there, too. I believe DXVK support is coming along nicely too, so that makes the situation even better.

What I will recommend is downloading the entire client first. The performance can be terrible if you don't do that, just as a warning. It's not guaranteed to be terrible, perhaps especially if you have a high-end SSD, but it is... likely.

I don't own a Mac, mind you. I just like researching things.

Ummm, codeweavers sells an ARM and x64 versions of wine and it should work better than the Cider Anet uses.

https://www.codeweavers.com/blog/jwhite/2020/11/18/okay-im-on-the-bandwagon-apple-silicon-is-officially-cool

@loseridoit.2756 said:Linux players probably have a better GW2 experience than many Windows players.

Just wanted to add... Yes. This is actually true. Guild Wars 2 runs better on my Linux partition than on my Windows one. It loads faster, it has less frame dips in crowded areas... It's weird. I can only guess it's down to Gallium9, but I dunno!

Not weird. Linux has better filesystem performance which allows better loading time. The Linux ecosystem have a driver development cycle more suited for MMORPG. Linux community cares more about correctness over performance. This preference avoid the terrible driver competition in the Windows ecosystem which leads to more bugs and a worse experience. As a side benefit, the performance improvements regress less and you have less FPS dips.

[killerkram.5129]

@lare.5129 said:

They are pretty expensive and premium machines.m1 notebook is 1000+ euro ? ofc if you not select 1Tb sdd .. :)) this is expensive and premium ? I don't think so. My non premium mid-high laptop (intel+2060) buyed more that 2000 euro some time ago.

We play guild wars and guild wars 2 on a $700 dell i got several years ago. Works like a charm. We were going to upgrade it but decided against that since this thing does what we need it to do for guild wars. intel i5, gtx 1060, 16gb memory, replaced the hdd with an ssd (was pretty cheap on sale). We have a nicer mac sitting in the closet that we picked up about a year before that dell and it was $1700. It does photoshop pretty good for a small machine but isn't really a gaming computer. My desktop is the monster we use for flight sim and star citizen but the lappy works for guild wars as the requirements are not that high.

[lare.5129]

@Qida.5648 said:(now that i have the M1 Mac, its powerful enough to play most games on the go) .So no you can no worry, and can always run parallels

[lare.5129]

@killerkram.5129 said:We have a nicer mac sitting in the closet that we picked up about a year before that dell and it was $1700. It does photoshop pretty good for a small machine but isn't really a gaming computer.yes. Year ago possible buy only whit Intel cpu, so mac that you can coast more, and not for games. m1 cheaper and better for me.

[Infusion.7149]

I advise anyone reading this thread not to use the Vortex app service referenced as a way to play on Android. It costs $10 a month at a minimum (limited to 50 hours a month at that base plan) which is more expensive than Geforce Now Founders Edition or the same price as full Google Stadia accounts (which don't carry GW2 currently). It also isn't a vetted service such as Nvidia Geforce Now or Google Stadia. It will likely get your account banned if anyone does anything against TOS using that streaming service.

[Bezerker.2379]

Wow. I agree the mac client is garbage, and as a result nobody plays on it, but I used it to check the AH on my work pc often etc. I would play full time on the client if it ran well like the wow client... but now you guys are killing it? What the heck are all my gem purchases funding?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Bezerker.2379 said:Wow. I agree the mac client is garbage, and as a result nobody plays on it, but I used it to check the AH on my work pc often etc. I would play full time on the client if it ran well like the wow client... but now you guys are killing it? What the heck are all my gem purchases funding?

Blame Apple.

[curtegg.5216]

To be honest PC users will have to make a transition as well in a few years given the fact that ARM architectures will be replacing CISC based 8086 due to thermal and the limitations inherit with their command and thread setup (like fewer cmd decoders, etc.). Apple is only the first to make the switch (like they have done with many I/Os). The fact that an ARM setup running at half the operating frequency of 8086 systems it is being compared to mid and higher end 8086 based systems should make Intel and AMD take notice. ARM Windows 10 still needs some work and maybe MS will get it up to snuff by then. As for me I use my mac for lisp development and a few games. I'll just go out and get a windows laptop to hold me over. Next year will be interesting when more than 4 high power processor versions come out and Samsung RISC-V ARM development catches on.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Bezerker.2379 said:Wow. I agree the mac client is garbage, and as a result nobody plays on it, but I used it to check the AH on my work pc often etc. I would play full time on the client if it ran well like the wow client... but now you guys are killing it? What the heck are all my gem purchases funding?

Blame Apple.

THIS^There are half a dozen threads already on the closing support for the Mac client, each detailing how it is solely Apple's fault that this had to happen. Nothing short of remaking the engine for GW2 would allow Anet to continue supporting a Mac client. And just so you know your gem purchases are going to viable content and support.

[Ashen.2907]

@Bezerker.2379 said:nobody plays on it

So, no reason to keep it then right?

[Kurrilino.2706]

I really don't see the point in pursuing a technology that is used by 8 people world wide.It's fine if people buy toy for them self but the real world out there is Microsoft dominated.Just get a real PC and nobody will have any problems at all.

[Quark the Charming.1695]

As a Mac user I'm quite disappointed too. Though I can understand why ArenaNet are discontinuing the client. The client wasn't working great anyway. It was pretty stable across my macs in recent years but performance was quite terrible. All that time I kept using the client because it was much easier than maintaining a bootcamp Windows installation on the side. I'll have to look at another solution, but the bottom line is I'll just play less or no GW2 any longer. Sure, I know Mac users are a minority. Sure, I know Macs aren't geared for gaming. And yes I also know that me not being able to play Guild Wars any longer on a Mac is mainly due to the choices Apple makes about their platform rather than ArenaNet.

All that said, I don't think the venom some users are shooting at Apple users is justified.1) we're not all Apple fanboys blindly cheering anything that comes out of Cupertino.2) we're not idiots for using Apple products just because you make different choices.3) most of us Mac users are not vocal about the discontinuation nor behaving entitled, we're just disappointed. Heck, most of us are not even on these forums.4) please don't presume any and all of us are rich and can therefore easily spend extra money on a separate gaming machine, regardless of priorities.5) please don't generalise and stereotype mac users. We're really a varied bunch. The only thing we really have in common is that we're all just lovers of this game. And we're all simply using the tools at our disposal to play it.

[Valatha.6048]

I'm using OS X El Capitan and I have no complain whatsoever. Very happy about the gaming experience. I never use Windows or own a Windows PC in my all life. Why ? I just don’t like the interface. So, obviously, if I want to play a game or want any kind of software, I get less choice. I get use to it and not complaining about it.

I have Parallels, so, it should not be a big problem for me, if I truly want to continue to play the game. But do I truly want to play it on Windows ???? Still don’t know.

My question is it more to ArenaNet :Why stop providing the Mac client and support for player using OpenGL on Mac ?

Here what ArenaNet say : « At some point in the future, however, OpenGL may simply no longer be included on Mac systems at all, and the differences in chip hardware will make it very costly and difficult for us to support both the old and new processor designs. ».

But so far, many Mac owner are on OpenGL. How about them ?

Most of the time when we want to download a software the requirement say something like : need the latest window, Mac, etc. Here, for this situation the sentence will be a bit different. :)

Finally, I guess, when ArenaNet had decided to stop providing the Mac client, they see it as a wise decision in the income point of view. No argument here. But, instead of cutting down completely Mac client, why not reduce the department in charge of the Mac client. I have no problem waiting more time for an update, for support, etc. At least, I can still continue to enjoy the game.

To continue…

[Gyro.9182]

@"Valatha.6048" said:Finally, I guess, when ArenaNet had decided to stop providing the Mac client, they see it as a wise decision in the income point of view. No argument here. But, instead of cutting down completely Mac client, why not reduce the department in charge of the Mac client. I have no problem waiting more time for an update, for support, etc. At least, I can still continue to enjoy the game.

I strongly suspect that despite framing Apple for everything, the "Mac department" has already been shrunk sufficiently that they can't maintain a viable Mac version of the game. They are only blaming Apple for things that would indeed lie in their own control, such as keeping the client alive for those able to use it as it is.

[BnooMaGoo.5690]

@ASP.8093 said:

For the time being, Mac users can still play Guild Wars 2 using the Nvidia GeForce Now service while streaming over the Internet. Moreover, we are interested in feedback from all of our players about such services.

Feedback's pretty simple:

1. Input lag is manageable as long as you're close to the data centers.
2. When the game would normally drop frames (rotating the screen quickly in the middle of a busy WvW battle, for instance) you tend to get massive tearing.
3. Anet constantly locks your account due to IP address changes.

great points! also, why should the player do Anet's research for them? laziness on their part IMO

[BnooMaGoo.5690]

@"Dayra.7405" said:If you want a computer for gaming you shouldn't buy a Mac, and if you can affort a Mac, you don't really care about a little bit more money for an additional windows gaming computer :)

this is just dumb. why does arenanet delete my comments but allow this kind of "you bad person you" opines

[BnooMaGoo.5690]

It's pretty clear Mac users are not as profitable for Anet. Otherwise they'd be scrambling to fix this issue. Everybody talks about the cost of the game & refunds but what about the cost of all those permanent account additions like shared spots or bank storage or material storage? What about all the gems spent gambling on the pyramid scheme black lion chest items you need 4 of to get 1 of to get 9 of to get 1 of over the years of play. How does one value ones time put into a game as well as money by choice only to be told you aren't worth it?

[BnooMaGoo.5690]

@Gyro.9182 said:

@"Valatha.6048" said:Finally, I guess, when ArenaNet had decided to stop providing the Mac client, they see it as a wise decision in the income point of view. No argument here. But, instead of cutting down completely Mac client, why not reduce the department in charge of the Mac client. I have no problem waiting more time for an update, for support, etc. At least, I can still continue to enjoy the game.

I strongly suspect that despite framing Apple for everything, the "Mac department" has already been shrunk sufficiently that they can't maintain a viable Mac version of the game. They are only blaming Apple for things that would indeed lie in their own control, such as keeping the client alive for those able to use it as it is.

I can't help but feel this is also a bit of chest thumping against Apple as in David & Goliath.But isn't Anet owned by NC Soft who are owned by ??So who is David & who is Goliath?Apple is ebil to game developers, ask Fortnight.You go anet!You go NCSoft!!You go Taek Jin Kim, owner of NCSoft!

[Briadonis.8907]

Arenanet: My thinking right now is, if you discontinue Mac support, then I discontinue my Gem purchase support.

Been a loyal customer and player for many years now, and your Mac support was one of the reasons I have been so faithful. If you go down this route, I'll be going the route of weening myself and my money away from your platform.

[BnooMaGoo.5690]

I did a lot of research on games for Mac before I started playing.I've spent a bit over the close to 6 years I have played GW2 but I am not a whale by any means.This isn't about wanting a refund either.I knew gemstore purchases were being turned off today for Mac users.Which is why I made sure I got that Dragon focus yesterday knowing that my game days were numbered.If I buy a PC or a console, my experiences as a Mac customer are sure as heck going to figure in to whether I want to continue supporting Anet period.Despite how much money I have already "invested" in a game, it's more about how I value my time ultimately.My time in GW2 has been soured to say the least?

WAHOO

[BnooMaGoo.5690]

I just logged in to Nvidia, created a free account & am in queue behind 126 other players (free account)I can play for an hour? WAHOOOI bought Heart of Thorns AND Path of FireIs the way Mac users are being treated the result of combination corporate thinking behind a pay to play expansions "free to play" game?Another example of game developers losing control to corpo shareholders perhaps.Regardless, Arenanet "soft cc's/cancel cultures" its Apple playerbase for whatever reasonBut hey, spend $5 a month to play a game on somebody elses technological dime sounds like a win to me?NotI wonder if Anet gets a cut?

Koda the judge & Kodan the jury

[PhantasmBeserker.8269]

Hm. Well I got an old-ass Macbook and I'm a little shocked at the news. I don't care if people call us 'crying Mac players' for god's sake I was happy to play this game because it let me play it as a Mac user. Yes I know Apple is the real wet blanket here, but this is making me sad honestly. I loved playing WvW with my friends, and my laptop is simply too old to do the Windows thing. I've spent lots of gems on this game too so uhm...yeah. Not to pull the entitled card but I'm quite upset.

Like someone else said, for 8 years I felt happy knowing I could just log in whenever I wanted and could just play my game and now all of a sudden I'm pushed out.

But I do know it's Apple's fault, I really do. I just gotta...think of options. Sigh....let me start by informing my guildmates first.

[NeCrOuS.5908]

There is nothing to add to the debate about the merits of various operating system, with enough fake news and real information in this thread. The fan boys (people with a little less knowledge than they would have us believe) know who they are. The fact is that paying users were given 1 days notice of termination of service and 4 weeks to either figure something out or find a new MMO/gaming home. This company has done it once, lets hope they don't hit some of the people (with unsympathetic views in this thread) a little closer to home. MMO's are largely different from most gaming because of the community you are part of. Being ripped away from people you may have gamed with for years with no warning is nothing less than traumatic. Previously in other MMO's, I have had rich friendships lasting over a decade, where we meet in RL every year. For people in close knit guilds, loosing access to interacting with your friends isn't nice, and the software publishers have a responsibility to those broken communities. I know of one guild that is considering pulling out of GW2 regardless of OS platform and seeking a new home. Personally, I forward my sympathy to those adversly affected by this decision and hope you find some form of solution to your disrupted social and gaming life.