Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Should shatters be removed/changed/replaced in the next elite spec?


Tseison.4659

Recommended Posts

I would like an espec that focuses less on Clone spamming but when they would summon a clone, they build up resource internally instead.When resource level hits a certain level, they can summon a Double of themselves which will attack with Shatters and then expire after a duration.

1 Resource : Double uses Mind Wrack repeatedly for 10s, focusing the target that it was cast on. Goes on 5s cooldown.2 Resource : Double alternates using Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration for 15s, focusing on the target it was cast on. Goes on 7s cooldown.3 Resource : Double alternates using Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration, casting Diversion every 5th cast, for 20s, focusing on the target it was cast on. Goes on 15s cooldown.

So they wouldn't have like "no shatters at all" but they would only have two :Shatter : DopplegangerShatter : Distortion

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Yasai.3549" said:I would like an espec that focuses less on Clone spamming but when they would summon a clone, they build up resource internally instead.When resource level hits a certain level, they can summon a Double of themselves which will attack with Shatters and then expire after a duration.

1 Resource : Double uses Mind Wrack repeatedly for 10s, focusing the target that it was cast on. Goes on 5s cooldown.2 Resource : Double alternates using Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration for 15s, focusing on the target it was cast on. Goes on 7s cooldown.3 Resource : Double alternates using Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration, casting Diversion every 5th cast, for 20s, focusing on the target it was cast on. Goes on 15s cooldown.

So they wouldn't have like "no shatters at all" but they would only have two :Shatter : DopplegangerShatter : Distortion

Yeah I wouldn’t mind something along these lines, of course tweaked a bit. Just as long as the next e spec I don’t have to rely on shattering as a damage source. Shatters don’t bring anything new while every other professions new e-spec gets something different...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I voted no but, overall think the design space doesn't have to be changed but could be used differently.

eSpec idea:

1 permanent Clone Illusion that copies your weapon skills and target, but not your Utilities. F1-F4 are replaced with F1-F3 Clone specific Utilities (Power, Condi, CC most likely combo). You Illusion skills now do not create clones, but rather power up a 6-8 pip power bar that is drained by using Clone Utilities.

Consider it a pseudo hybrid of Ranger Pet with Guardian Firebrand Tome pips. The intent is to create the flow of charging up your Clone Utilities and then using the Clone Utilities either in rotation or as required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I also like the idea of actively controlling the phantasm, which only died when killed. Perhaps we can get Soulbeast-like "pet" skills, with F1 power based skill, F2 condi based skill, F3 CC based skill, and F4 for phantasm dodge. The clones are still shattered as ammos for these skills and the more clones shattered, the more powerful the phantasm skills become. Thematically, I think Warhorn weapon suits well (though frankly I don't like warhorn as weapon, in general).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i'm fine with shatters, i just don't think we need another couple of years (especially if it's the last, who knows where this game is going), of having all 3 e-specs and base mesmer all doing the same exact thing, chrono and mirage were already perfect candidates to change shatters/clones/phantasms into literally anything else... and they just..... didn't.....

having an entire class with no way out of revolving around pets that can just get CC'd or killed before they can even utilize their mechanic is an absolute nightmare to have no alternative on, especially given the fact that the theme of mesmers can be literally anything.... they're illusionists... not beastmasters, and i absolutely adore summoner classes, they're always my first choice in every game... but this... this needs to come to an end, even if just for a single e-spec

i don't even care if we don't get a new weapon at all, and instead just change how the clones/phantasms work on the current weapons, traits, and utilities for the e-specjust please unbind us from this mechanic designed nothing more than to gloat in a 1v1

i get that they're "duelists", but seriously, e-specs were supposed to actually change the feel of a class, and only chrono barely did it with support, but even then it's questionable compared to other supports at this point due to how much they've been nerfed them and put their utility on others because of how oppressive or simply required it is to have

i don't know how exactly the meta is, i stopped playing this game at this point a long time ago, but in any game, a literal "chronomancer" sounds like it would never be replaced, and if that's still the case, it's still a poor design choice for pigeonholing someone into being the only one who can offer control over literal time

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen some guides where the build depends on Shatter and I think it's okay to keep that, as an option.I would like to have alternatives, instead of Shatter you could select another set of skills focusing on other types of damage or advantages depending on your choice of Specializations and Alignment.

If we have a Core Mesmer that uses Chaos, Domination and Inspiration:Shatter could be selected for Chaos, the clones wouldn't live for long. They could do lower damage (60% of X damage) while they are clones. When shattered they make 1,7x more (100%).Hex could be selected for Domination, the clones would live until killed. They have another set of skills, maybe Power Flux, Power Leech, Ineptitude, Fevered Dreams...Healer could be selected for Inspiration, the clones will act supportive for the Mesmer and the allies with another set of skills that buffs, heals or increases the defense.Tank (couldn't find a better name) could be selected for Mirage, the clones will buff the Mesmer with Toughness, Vitality, Swiftness and Alacrity.etc.

I think that would be a better change for clones and for the Mesmer, instead of just removing the Shatter. Depending on which Specializations you have selected, those skill sets could be available and then you could select one of them as your Alignment. If the enemy kills the clone that buffs the Mesmer with extra Vitality, then that Vitality bonus will disappear until that clone is summoned again (Cool Down: 30-45 seconds?)As an example: If you have Domination, Chaos and Mirage. You should be able to select one those sets that belongs to Domination, Chaos or Mirage. That set will be your F1-F4.

I believe that will give a Mesmer a lot more options and not limit us to only Shatters, but also keep that alternative if someone likes them.

Edit: Sorry.. I see some mixup in my examples, but... I hope you get the idea of what I'm trying to describe. Depending on which Alignment you choose, that will affect the F1-F4 keys and give you or your allies buffs, or they could be used as attacks or hexes on your enemies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I actually though Chronomancer would have played without "shatter",

  • instead gaining a "time shard" (stack up to 3, like clones, when you cast clone/when they die/disappear), with each stack granting a pulsing AoE slow (every X second) of a wider radius, "shattering" the time shards, granting the effects of F1-2-3-4 based on the number of shards... Etc.More shards mean longer time split, but time.split would not be depending upon the number of active summons but rather based on the number of stacked time shards, same for each F-skills.

  • we could also have had some sort of phantasmal armor/cloak that we could "shatter" for each summon again stacking more charges/levels/effects whether based on active summons or based on summons that died. Each charge/stacking lasting a defined amount of time? Each stack grant defensive capacity which you sacrifice for a big hit/effect when you shatter.

All traits would therefore still be valid/workable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

without shatters the clone management wouldn't be a thing. It is actually what makes mesmer a mesmer. Mesmer without shatters is same as a ranger without pets. Maybe make them work differently, but removing it will just make mesmer not be a mesmer anymore. I'd rather create a new class than removing shatters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What about a doppelganger speck where you get large hp pool , no clones or summons just one exact copy of the character, either permanent mirror image which shares the HP pool or something like Necro life force mechanic where you gather HP to summon the second you. The F skills will let you port to it or it to you, have a shield wall kind of mechanic where they defend each other and a tandem attack skill that repeats the main characters skills something like the doppelganger from DMC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Vancho.8750" said:What about a doppelganger speck where you get large hp pool , no clones or summons just one exact copy of the character, either permanent mirror image which shares the HP pool or something like Necro life force mechanic where you gather HP to summon the second you. The F skills will let you port to it or it to you, have a shield wall kind of mechanic where they defend each other and a tandem attack skill that repeats the main characters skills something like the doppelganger from DMC

sounds cool, wont work.I cant see current dev team being able to pull something like this off, and if they do we will face several years of bugs the like of which we never seen before.to top it off spec would be gutted into the ground from the start, since switching a place is too confusing for 95% of population.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Vancho.8750" said:What about a doppelganger speck where you get large hp pool , no clones or summons just one exact copy of the character, either permanent mirror image which shares the HP pool or something like Necro life force mechanic where you gather HP to summon the second you. The F skills will let you port to it or it to you, have a shield wall kind of mechanic where they defend each other and a tandem attack skill that repeats the main characters skills something like the doppelganger from DMC

sounds cool, wont work.I cant see current dev team being able to pull something like this off, and if they do we will face several years of bugs the like of which we never seen before.to top it off spec would be gutted into the ground from the start, since switching a place is too confusing for 95% of population.

Well yeah, you are right they can't seem manage something basic like warrior, and im proposing something that switches bodies , but one can dream right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well yeah, you are right they can't seem manage something basic like warrior, and im proposing something that switches bodies , but one can dream right.

Hey Vancho,So yes it does and looks cool when I watched the video but Anet is VERY lazy and on top of that, they essentially ruined the Mesmer by tieing the shatter mechanic to them for every single E-Spec which is VERY distasteful and unoriginal. I’m afraid for EoDs E-Spec...

However to add to your idea, awhile back I thought of just incorporating the “White Mantle Illusion” ability called “Break Illusion to Defeat”. Not sure if you’ve fought one but it’s basically you attack the Mesmer and once it’s “dead” it reveals that you only defeated the illusion of them and then you have to kill the real one.

This idea I really like because it acts as a sort of “illusion of weakness” from the original game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No for a very simple reason. Too many mesmer traits revolve and work around shatters if you are asking for a spec that does no shatter that means ALL those shatter related traits would have to have a 2nd effect specifically for a non shatter mesmer spec. With how they balanced mirage by removing a dodge rather then going another route I doubt they will decide to do this. Mirage esp condi mirage is a class that is played more passively having as much clone uptime as possible and only shattering when needed in comparison to Chronos that require to shatter as much as possible to get more alacrity for CD reductions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Salt Mode.3780 said:No for a very simple reason. Too many mesmer traits revolve and work around shatters if you are asking for a spec that does no shatter that means ALL those shatter related traits would have to have a 2nd effect specifically for a non shatter mesmer spec. With how they balanced mirage by removing a dodge rather then going another route I doubt they will decide to do this. Mirage esp condi mirage is a class that is played more passively having as much clone uptime as possible and only shattering when needed in comparison to Chronos that require to shatter as much as possible to get more alacrity for CD reductions.

Like I said earlier, all they need is for the replacements to be something similar enough that the traits still make sense. Like necromancer shroud traits.

F1 does power damage. F2 inflicts conditions (specifically, Confusion). F3 is a CC effect. F4 is a defensive effect. As long as they keep to those rules, all the core traits would still apply. Heck, they might not even need to be that fussy about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But again, i wouldn't want that if it means further imbalance to the mesmer and further future nerfs that might eventually happen because of this. Because then anet nerfs one thing that affects all others that never needed nerfs in the first place due to how closely everything on mesmer is tied to the shatters and illusion generation.

I guess internal software could make it generate other things in their stead like instead of clones and phantasms gain 10 stacks of might/gain 1,000 health etc. but that does lead to balancing issues for other traits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"HotDelirium.7984" said:

But again, i wouldn't want that if it means further imbalance to the mesmer and further future nerfs that might eventually happen because of this. Because then anet nerfs one thing that affects all others that never needed nerfs in the first place due to how closely everything on mesmer is tied to the shatters and illusion generation.

I guess internal software could make it generate other things in their stead like instead of clones and phantasms gain 10 stacks of might/gain 1,000 health etc. but that does lead to balancing issues for other traits.

I updated my post but I'll mention here as to what I wrote just to bump the thread again. Basically, my thoughts in balancing are to merge shatter traits into the shatters themselves, which will free up a lot of traits to be filled with something else. Which I think would be great because it’ll give the class a chance to get unique and better traits that can be focused on the Mesmer itself or their utility skills and less on the shatter mechanic. I've gone through the entire list of shatter traits and it's very distasteful how there are so many of them, but it's 99.9% doable to have them simply "come with" the shatter(s).

At first I was thinking maybe the next E-Spec would follow the same route as the Soul Beast and we'd get some form of stat buffs but I don't think they'd recycle something like that since it's nothing new.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@HotDelirium.7984 said:

But again, i wouldn't want that if it means further imbalance to the mesmer and further future nerfs that might eventually happen because of this. Because then anet nerfs one thing that affects all others that never needed nerfs in the first place due to how closely everything on mesmer is tied to the shatters and illusion generation.

I guess internal software could make it generate other things in their stead like instead of clones and phantasms gain 10 stacks of might/gain 1,000 health etc. but that does lead to balancing issues for other traits.

I doubt that clones and phantasms are ever likely to be removed - there are just too many skills that use them. I could, however, see clones becoming something that is just there, rather than a resource needed to fuel additional abilities.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Tseison.4659 said:

@"HotDelirium.7984" said:

But again, i wouldn't want that if it means further imbalance to the mesmer and further future nerfs that might eventually happen because of this. Because then anet nerfs one thing that affects all others that never needed nerfs in the first place due to how closely everything on mesmer is tied to the shatters and illusion generation.

I guess internal software could make it generate other things in their stead like instead of clones and phantasms gain 10 stacks of might/gain 1,000 health etc. but that does lead to balancing issues for other traits.

I updated my post but I'll mention here as to what I wrote just to bump the thread again. Basically, my thoughts in balancing are to merge shatter traits into the shatters themselves, which will free up a lot of traits to be filled with something else. Which I think would be great because it’ll give the class a chance to get unique and better traits that can be focused on the Mesmer itself or their utility skills and less on the shatter mechanic. I've gone through the entire list of shatter traits and it's very distasteful how there are so many of them, but it's 99.9% doable to have them simply "come with" the shatter(s).

At first I was thinking maybe the next E-Spec would follow the same route as the Soul Beast and we'd get some form of stat buffs but I don't think they'd recycle something like that since it's nothing new.

Perhaps I am looking at this from a significantly different angle than you. Shatters are the core mechanic for Mesmer, just as Virtues are for Guardians, Adrenaline for Warriors etc. These profession specific mechanics all have multiple Core traits associated with them, some just as underwhelming as Mesmer's worst, some arguably better than Mesmer's best..

So one argument for or against this would include "if Mesmers Prof Mechanics are baked in, all classes should have similar treatment." Most professions appear to have 4-6 Core traits that affect the Prof Mechanic. I believe that while you could bake all these traits into the prof mechanic, it doesn't actually improve anything unless there is something created to fill the void.

So what do you suggest we replace these traits with? Is it Mesmer specific or does it apply to all professions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:I believe that while you could bake all these traits into the prof mechanic, it doesn't actually improve anything unless there is something created to fill the void.

So what do you suggest we replace these traits with? Is it Mesmer specific or does it apply to all professions?

Agreed that's why I mentioned that when those traits are merged within the Shatters, that it frees up space to have new and more unique traits to take their place. What that pertains too would obviously be up to Anet. But as I also mentioned, the "new" traits can revolve around affecting our utility skills/elite or the Mesmer themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

@Norbe.7630 said:Chrono active 2 dodgeMirage active 1 dodge3rd elite active 0 dodge make it chance percentage like passive

Mirror Image spec. Every time you would otherwise get hit while you have a clone active, you get evasion for a second, but a clone pops.

Over time, the evade duration gets balanced downwards, until each clone is basically just an Aegis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...