Will there ever be new additions to Core classes?

[Taril.8619]

@Arkantos.7460 said:

@Taril.8619 said:just it would be nice ...companys cant pay salaries or pay bills with just beeing nice ....

But they can by providing additional content to the game which gets people to play it.

They can even easily still monetize extra weapon sets/utilities/specializations for Core by locking them behind having a particular expansion, in exactly the same way that Revenant and E-Specs are.

[Sobx.1758]

@Taril.8619 said:They can even easily still monetize extra weapon sets/utilities/specializations for Core by locking them behind having a particular expansion, in exactly the same way that Revenant and E-Specs are.

Then that's pretty much just a worse espec, meh.

[Taril.8619]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Taril.8619 said:They can even easily still monetize extra weapon sets/utilities/specializations for Core by locking them behind having a particular expansion, in exactly the same way that Revenant and E-Specs are.

Then that's pretty much just a worse espec, meh.

A worse E-Spec, that can be utilized in Core builds and alongside any other E-Spec?

[Sobx.1758]

@Taril.8619 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Taril.8619 said:They can even easily still monetize extra weapon sets/utilities/specializations for Core by locking them behind having a particular expansion, in exactly the same way that Revenant and E-Specs are.

Then that's pretty much just a worse espec, meh.

A worse E-Spec, that can be utilized in Core builds and alongside any other E-Spec?

Yup, a worse espec that either is on the same level current core classes/specs are, which changes nearly nothing in the class' gameplay (as opposed to what especs are supposed to do) or they'll be so strong that they'll just push out another core specialization for good. The additional weapon sets that mix with current especs (and potentially one more in the next expansion) is just a reason for more problems with balancing. What you proposed here looks to me like worse especs with potentially more balancing issues, but that's just me.

[Taril.8619]

@Sobx.1758 said:Yup, a worse espec that either is on the same level current core classes/specs are, which changes nearly nothing in the class' gameplay (as opposed to what especs are supposed to do)

Other than providing more options for builds because of having more tools available to the base class?

Unlike E-Specs which lock all of the stuff behind having 1 of your specs being the E-Spec and is only usable after level 80.

In addition to not necessarily always being a complete Weapon Type/Utility Type/Extra Utilities in existing types/Specialization. An update could simply add one thing, alongside an actual E-Spec.

@Sobx.1758 said:The additional weapon sets that mix with current especs (and potentially one more in the next expansion) is just a reason for more problems with balancing. What you proposed here looks to me like worse especs with potentially more balancing issues, but that's just me.

More potential balancing issues, yes. But that's the cost of gaining more options to make builds.

One of the annoying things (In my opinion) about E-Specs is all the limitations they have on them which stifle build potentials even before you add in the fact that in many cases they're simply powercreep over base specializations (Which is not how they were advertized by ANet).

A strength of GW2 has always been that freedom with builds, where you can choose specializations, choose traits in those specializations and choose different weapon types for different skills. But it all goes down the toilet if everything ends up being "Pick this E-Spec and the 2 base specs that complement it. Pick the E-Spec's weapon. Now be like literally everyone else playing your class"

[Sobx.1758]

@Taril.8619 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Yup, a worse espec that either is on the same level current core classes/specs are, which changes nearly nothing in the class' gameplay (as opposed to what especs are supposed to do)

Other than providing more options for builds because of having more tools available to the base class?

Might as well rework half of the traits/skills that are unusable or barely ever used instead of providing new ones without having the old ones sorted out in the first place.

Unlike E-Specs which lock all of the stuff behind having 1 of your specs being the E-Spec and is only usable after level 80.

Which limits the number of combinations and makes the balancing that much easier, which still isn't perfect. I don't think anyone cares about "only usable after level 80", seeing how there's no reason to stay on lower level other than some bag opening bot, which doesn't need access to every spec and doesn't complete any content anyways so it won't accidentally level up. Not sure how that level 80 is important at all here.

In addition to not necessarily always being a complete Weapon Type/Utility Type/Extra Utilities in existing types/Specialization. An update could simply add one thing, alongside an actual E-Spec.

Cool. But why? They could also add 2 especs. But workload, balancing, ideas, yaddayaddayadda. We know nothing about the exact state of anet, saying "more more more" is easy, but it does nothing. Especs just seem way more interesting to me either way.

@"Sobx.1758" said:The additional weapon sets that mix with current especs (and potentially one more in the next expansion) is just a reason for more problems with balancing. What you proposed here looks to me like worse especs with potentially more balancing issues, but that's just me.

More potential balancing issues, yes. But that's the cost of gaining more options to make builds.

um... Yes, that's the cost. That doesn't change what I said, not sure if I'm supposed to answer anything to this.

One of the annoying things (In my opinion) about E-Specs is all the limitations they have on them which stifle build potentials even before you add in the fact that in many cases they're simply powercreep over base specializations (Which is not how they were advertized by ANet).

Which was the case for a long time and was pulled way back in most cases after long time. Now, are you suggesting they did it intentionally? If no, then we can believe they've learned their lesson and won't happen again. If yes, then we can guess that it's an intentional power creep directed at sale increse, at which point the same thing would happen with some random "additional base specs", because why wouldn't it.

A strength of GW2 has always been that freedom with builds, where you can choose specializations, choose traits in those specializations and choose different weapon types for different skills. But it all goes down the toilet if everything ends up being "Pick this E-Spec and the 2 base specs that complement it. Pick the E-Spec's weapon. Now be like literally everyone else playing your class"

It seems that by that logic, it also goes down the drain in regards of base specs, because there's pretty much always some cookie cutter, top tier, meta build that eats most other. You either care about playing the strongest and it just happens anyways (and will always happen) or you don't and you miss and match whatever you want anyways. Especs didn't magically do that, it was always here.

One way or another, that's my opinion about it. Especs seem much more interesting to me, they seem to be easier to balance and we know even those still cause issues. I can't answer the question from the title of this thread, because nobody besides anet can.

[Taril.8619]

@Sobx.1758 said:Might as well rework half of the traits/skills that are unusable or barely ever used instead of providing new ones without having the old ones sorted out in the first place.

Which would still imply addressing core classes instead of focusing entirely on E-Specs.

Not that reworking existing weapons sets/utilities/traits is mutually exclusive from adding anything new. Heck, we've had 2 E-Specs for each class added while there are still plenty of awful Core weapon sets/utilities/traits.

@Sobx.1758 said:Which limits the number of combinations and makes the balancing that much easier, which still isn't perfect. I don't think anyone cares about "only usable after level 80", seeing how there's no reason to stay on lower level other than some bag opening bot, which doesn't need access to every spec and doesn't complete any content anyways so it won't accidentally level up. Not sure how that level 80 is important at all here.

Meanwhile, my opinion is that the limited number of combinations is also less interesting and the notion of "Harder to balance" not weighty enough.

New players care about "Only usable after level 80" (Even more so if a new player uses a level 80 boost they get with an expansion purchase, they only get to run around Silverwastes with Core specs to try out the class)

Players that don't have all 9 classes at level 80 and/or stacks of Tomes of Knowledge and thus might end up actually levelling a class up to 80 care.

@Sobx.1758 said:Cool. But why? They could also add 2 especs. But workload, balancing, ideas, yaddayaddayadda. We know nothing about the exact state of anet, saying "more more more" is easy, but it does nothing. Especs just seem way more interesting to me either way.

Why? More variety, more options. With also less required work (In the sense that E-Specs seem to have established themselves with a motif of being a new Spec + weapon + set of utilities, meaning any new E-Spec is likely going to be bound by requiring the full Spec + weapon + utilities combination. As opposed to simply adding say, 1 new line of Utilities to core and nothing else as a single update)

@Sobx.1758 said:It seems that by that logic, it also goes down the drain in regards of base specs, because there's pretty much always some cookie cutter, top tier, meta build that eats most other. You either care about playing the strongest and it just happens anyways (and will always happen) or you don't and you miss and match whatever you want anyways. Especs didn't magically do that, it was always here.

The difference is that before E-Specs, the difference between builds wasn't as large and for a lot of classes there was 2 primary DPS specs and then the third spec was your preferred flavour of utility.

With E-Specs, it's a case where it's 2 primary DPS specs and then an E-Spec because E-Spec > All.

Meaning that you've lost that option of your 3rd spec even when playing meta.

Beyond that, there's plenty of room for non-meta builds in places like OW content, Dungeons and low tier Fractals, casual WvW. But even here, the strengths of E-Specs can drown out any notion of playing some Core build you find interesting.

To say nothing about the aspect of E-Specs being that as we shift from E-Spec to E-Spec due to whatever is Flavour of the Expansion, it also can change how your classes play on a fundamental level, due to how many E-Specs are focused around altering class mechanics (Which you may or may not enjoy. For example, some people don't like how clunky Weaver can feel due to its need to re-attune twice to swap their Skills 4 and 5. Some people prefer Necro's Shroud mechanic over Scourge's Sand Shades and F1 skills etc)

Adding stuff to Core can mean that if people have a particular build with an E-Spec and class mechanics they like, they still get new things to play with within it as opposed to only new E-Specs which makes them have to choose between the build they like and the new stuff (If of course, the new E-Spec isn't powercreeping/their E-Spec getting nerfed)

@Sobx.1758 said:One way or another, that's my opinion about it. Especs seem much more interesting to me, they seem to be easier to balance and we know even those still cause issues.

Fair enough.

Personally, I like E-Specs. But more due to their class mechanic altering as opposed to them having the weapons and utilities tied to them.

I'd rather risk potential difficulty in balancing if it means more overall options to make builds (Including things like reworking existing weapon sets that suck and existing specs that have sucky traits or sucky layouts that offer no real choice on particular tiers)

I want more reasons to get additional build templates because of having multiple builds that are fun and different, as opposed to being able to make do with the baseline 3 because that's more than enough to handle the builds that E-Specs facilitate...

I want more options for weapons that entice me into making new Legendaries because the class(es) I like to play can now utilize said cool Legendaries in a number of builds (As opposed to some Legendaries which are hard to justify the effort required to craft them because like 1-2 classes use them in like 1 fringe build each...)

Whether or not such expansion is feasible, is up to ANet to judge. However, I'd like them to be considering it as a potential addition as opposed to only focusing on new E-Specs (Heck... Add a weapon to Core and release a set of E-Specs that are just the Specialization and don't come with a weapon for example)

[xram.5716]

I would kill to see a bard class that transforms each weapon in a different instrument idk

[kharmin.7683]

I can't envision a new class. We have three for each now: light, medium and heavy. Adding another class would upset that balance, IMO. I think this is why Anet went with the Elite builds concept. Those enable players to play a class differently than core which might feel like a new class. I know that I play my Ranger / SoulBeast / Druid differently. /shrug

[DKRathalos.9625]

Since we speaking about core currently we have 2 Core and 1 Espec setting what if change to 3 Core and 1 Espec? do you guys think something like 3 Core 1 Espec will break the game balance that much or maybe make it powerfull but not breaking too much balance?

[Sobx.1758]

@"DKRathalos.9625" said:Since we speaking about core currently we have 2 Core and 1 Espec setting what if change to 3 Core and 1 Espec? do you guys think something like 3 Core 1 Espec will break the game balance that much or maybe make it powerfull but not breaking too much balance?

You have 3 specs to pick when playing core class and there's no reason for espec to get some special treatment by being "the bonus fourth one". Not like especs lack power anyways.

[Jski.6180]

As long as the elite spec can use all of the core weapons, traits and utility the elite spec will simply always be stronger then the core. Anet messed up by not removing equivalent effects and weapons from elites spec vs what the core class has. The best thing is make the core classes more fixable then the elite spec though F1-F5 accessibility.

Best example is your tempest and weaver using staff only most of the time and not there elite weapons.

[VocalThought.9835]

@Taril.8619 said:So, Elite Specializations are pretty cool. They add a new specialization, new utility skills and a new weapon to a class.

But, the downside is the limitation that is having to use the new Specialization to be able to use the new weapon and utilities as well as going forward the specialization itself will become more notably limiting since you can't use multiple Elite Specializations together (Meaning that each new Elite Specialization still only has 2x the current 5 core Specializations to use alongside)

As such, I was wondering if core classes might ever be expanded upon? Given that such a thing would create more potential options to utilize. I.e. A new core weapon/Utility set could be utilized by any combination of Core Specializations as well as any Elite Specialization. While any new Core Specialization increases the pool of options that can be paired with an Elite Specialization (Whilst also making more combinations for 3x Core Specialization builds)

If necessary, you can continue to lock these additions behind Expansion content (Such as how Elite Specializations are unlocked), it's just it would be nice for new content to have more flexibility.

I hope we stick with 9 classes. I think all the class themes can be touched on by the Elite Specializations. Right now, what ever class you can think of from any fantasy story, you can tie into one of the 9 classes, which is what I like the most.

[Raarsi.6798]

Honestly seems like it'd be easier for devs just to phase out the idea of core specs trying to be on par with e-specs and just set them up as stepping stones toward e-specs, especially with how many e-specs there are that just feel like their core counterparts on steroids.

Alternatively, I feel like if they did do something to enhance core specs, the only way it would come off as appealing or useful would for it to be so good that it renders nearly all e-specs more irrelevant than core specs are nowadays.

[SkyCake.4216]

I'd much prefer if they'd do more regular touch-ups on the core classes. The Explosive rework was great and something that legitimately every trait line on core Engi could use. Some more so than others.

[Jski.6180]

A though that seems to have some popularly is giving the core classes all of the elite spec weapons. Making core into an wepon rack or preview class. This means every expansion or elite spec anet adds in will give the core something new as well as making the elite spec lost an significant set of weapons when sawping from core.

I for one would love to see a core sword/WH ele , sword/x or hammer eng, axe/x or long bow guard, and etc..

[VocalThought.9835]

@"Raarsi.6798" said:Honestly seems like it'd be easier for devs just to phase out the idea of core specs trying to be on par with e-specs and just set them up as stepping stones toward e-specs, especially with how many e-specs there are that just feel like their core counterparts on steroids.

Alternatively, I feel like if they did do something to enhance core specs, the only way it would come off as appealing or useful would for it to be so good that it renders nearly all e-specs more irrelevant than core specs are nowadays.

I think it's better to make the core and elite on par with each other. The elites weren't meant to be better, they're meant to add or change the playstyle. I think the changes to the elite could be better and hopefully new elites can be better balanced.

I want to see them change core Revenant to be able to use racial skills. They could have made the F1 like Death Shroud, but call it "Commune", changing the last 5 skills, instead of the weapons and make F2 "Channel" the Legend Swap. They could also add those 4 new skills, call "Remnant" which woud be the missing from the game, so they have the equal number of skills to every other class. I would make the centaur skill the heal, and the other skills utility, no elite. They all be less, use no energy and have cool downs. You would only gain or lose energy when you are communed to a legend, therefore you only worry about energy when you are communed. The F3 "Ancient Echo" will do the same as it does, but only give energy if a legend is communed with.

They could also add a new racial specialization, which would boost racial skills so they're on par with profession skills.

[Tseison.4659]

After the elite specs in EoD, I would prefer going forward for them to give more skills to existing skill types and elite specs. As a Mesmer main I would love to get new Glamour, Manipulation, Wells and Deception skills.

Additionally, as others mentioned, regular touch ups to professions who need them would be ideal too. Overall I’m basing this opinion off by what they’d be willing to do going forward for the future of the game and I don’t think after EoD they’ll give us another expansion. Instead, it would just be minor additional content to be added, QoL, touch ups on existing maps/events, etc...

[Jski.6180]

So more then likely no core classes will not get any thing new they will simply get nerfed over and over for elite spec to be balanced.