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Any new info / speculations about the missing firstborns?


Fenella.2634

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It's been a while since this topic was being discussed, but replaying LS2 reminded me that we still don't know all the sylvari firstborns. At launch, we knew 9 out of 12, later Wynne's fate got revealed, but two are still completely unknown.

In LS2, Caithe's memories are especially interesting as they give us a bit of a timeline. Apparently, the two missing firstborns disappeared even before the secondborn awakened. Riannoc was already dead by the time of Caithe's first memory, so it's not certain if they disappeared before that happened or after. Also, this happened before the Nightmare Court was founded. At this time, the death of a single sylvari was a huge deal for them all. So I imagine if at a time like this two more firstborn would have died / had something traumatic happen to them, it's likely we would have learnt about this, since it should have left a strong impression on sylvari society, especially the other firstborns.In contrast, when Wynne did die, the sylvari had already experienced trauma and deaths as a society numerous times. This was some time after the asura captured larger groups.

So, because they disappeared at such an interesting time in sylvari history, I personally suspect they might be still alive and on some kind of mission. Maybe exploration or diplomatics concerning other continents, so they basically had no chance to visit home in the meantime? Like, I don't know, maybe Cantha or even that continent in the west that seems to have trading routes connecting it to Central Tyria? However, sending them that far away when their siblings even barely left the grove... I'm not convinced.

... Or maybe they died in some really stupid accident that everyone refuses to ever mention.

Has anyone heard anything about them in the past ~8 years? I mean, they must have some kind of story, otherwise the devs could just have not defined the number of firstborns in the first place.

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@Fenella.2634 said:It's been a while since this topic was being discussed, but replaying LS2 reminded me that we still don't know all the sylvari firstborns. At launch, we knew 9 out of 12, later Wynne's fate got revealed, but two are still completely unknown.

In LS2, Caithe's memories are especially interesting as they give us a bit of a timeline. Apparently, the two missing firstborns disappeared even before the secondborn awakened. Riannoc was already dead by the time of Caithe's first memory, so it's not certain if they disappeared before that happened or after. Also, this happened before the Nightmare Court was founded. At this time, the death of a single sylvari was a huge deal for them all. So I imagine if at a time like this two more firstborn would have died / had something traumatic happen to them, it's likely we would have learnt about this, since it should have left a strong impression on sylvari society, especially the other firstborns.In contrast, when Wynne did die, the sylvari had already experienced trauma and deaths as a society numerous times. This was some time after the asura captured larger groups.

So, because they disappeared at such an interesting time in sylvari history, I personally suspect they might be still alive and on some kind of mission. Maybe exploration or diplomatics concerning other continents, so they basically had no chance to visit home in the meantime? Like, I don't know, maybe Cantha or even that continent in the west that seems to have trading routes connecting it to Central Tyria? However, sending them that far away when their siblings even barely left the grove... I'm not convinced.

... Or maybe they died in some really stupid accident that everyone refuses to ever mention.

Has anyone heard anything about them in the past ~8 years? I mean, they must have some kind of story, otherwise the devs could just have not defined the number of firstborns in the first place.

They're probably among the characters that Anet's storytelling team cast aside. The optimist in me, though, would suggest that the missing firstborn are either in Cantha or exploring the Mists.

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@Stephen.6312 said:The optimist in me, though, would suggest that the missing firstborn are either in Cantha or exploring the Mists.Wouldn't that be really something, though? :) Consider how extremely early they left.It was at a time the firstborns were still acting like they were in a fairytale, Riannoc playing the Chosen Knight with a magic sword, everyone else barely leaving home. Even the future diplomats and Trahearne, who would later be absent a lot, were still very unfamiliar with the world outside the Grove.

So what on Tyria would have been so extremely urgent and important to send the two that far away that soon? If it was related to Mordremoth directly, there likely would have been a link to the Malyck story. Which was not there. Malyck was a surprise for everyone, including the Pale Tree.Maybe something Mist-related? Or something about the cave with the seeds?

Yes, I know, most likely it really was related to HoT and just one of the scrapped stories. But maybe not?

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@Fenella.2634 said:

@Stephen.6312 said:The optimist in me, though, would suggest that the missing firstborn are either in Cantha or exploring the Mists.Wouldn't that be really something, though? :) Consider how extremely early they left.It was at a time the firstborns were still acting like they were in a fairytale, Riannoc playing the Chosen Knight with a magic sword, everyone else barely leaving home. Even the future diplomats and Trahearne, who would later be absent a lot, were still very unfamiliar with the world outside the Grove.

So what on Tyria would have been so extremely urgent and important to send the two that far away that soon? If it was related to Mordremoth directly, there likely would have been a link to the Malyck story. Which was not there. Malyck was a surprise for everyone, including the Pale Tree.Maybe something Mist-related? Or something about the cave with the seeds?

Yes, I know, most likely it really was related to HoT and just one of the scrapped stories. But maybe not?

Maybe they even came across Malyck's tree and somehow were behind his appearance in Brisban. And now, Laranthir is (on his way) there too on a mission of crucial importance for the Pale Tree and all sylvari and we'll eventually join him and learn more./wild dreaming

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Sylvari's the only racial story that's interested me. It's a real shame how these plot threads have been cast aside. It honestly seems like sylvari are done with now.Not just the two missing firstborns, but what about the rest of the firstborns themselves?So much wasted potential. The original plan for HoT must have been great.

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@LSD.4673 said:Sylvari's the only racial story that's interested me. It's a real shame how these plot threads have been cast aside. It honestly seems like sylvari are done with now.Not just the two missing firstborns, but what about the rest of the firstborns themselves?So much wasted potential. The original plan for HoT must have been great.

Obviously not if it was so quickly cast aside. Maybe it had good ideas, but failed to create a good narrative with them.

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@The Greyhawk.9107 said:

@LSD.4673 said:Sylvari's the only racial story that's interested me. It's a real shame how these plot threads have been cast aside. It honestly seems like sylvari are done with now.Not just the two missing firstborns, but what about the rest of the firstborns themselves?So much wasted potential. The original plan for HoT must have been great.

Obviously not if it was so quickly cast aside. Maybe it had good ideas, but failed to create a good narrative with them.

I've honestly always thought the early story of the game got ruined by big changes. I think people hated underwater stuff so much they cut whole zones and likely had to change the story so much. I felt like with the pirate them, season 1 starting with the karka, looking at the water map left of LA that was cut, and at least 2 other mate rmaps that got cut. It just seemed to me in its original concept we were going to start with the DSD after Zaitan, but they ended up shuffling dragons around because of backlash about water combat. Even the end of season 1 cinematic with the vines destroying the pact ships seemed like it could have originally been conceptualized to be tentacles coming out of the sea instead of vines out of a forest, but i guess will never know the original plan/vision for the game.

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At least we have a general idea of what these two Firstborn looked like and what their professions may have been. While battling the vision of the Blighted Pale Tree in "Hearts and Minds", we see her summoning Firstborn to her side. There are 12 Firstborn with nine of them resembling the Firstborn we know. The unknown ones are a female archer, a scholarly male, and an armored male. Given that the present day Malomedies does not appear among these 12 Firstborn during the battle, I'd say that the scholarly male would be what Malomedies looked like before he was tortured by the asura; we know that sylvari looks can change in response to trauma (see e.g. Caithe's hairstyle change to honor Wynne, Faolain switching between her branchy look in S2 flashbacks and GW2 and Caithe-imitating looks in Edge of Destiny, and Canach becoming more thorny after being hunted by the Consortium). So, it's possible that the missing Firstborn could've experienced traumas during their journeys so their appearances would've changed from those original looks over the years (thus allowing the devs to give them new looks in future content if they so wanted).

It's likely that these two missing Firstborn (a female and a male) are traveling abroad. After all, Caithe and Faolain were driven by wanderlust in their early years, and even Aife confessed to having traversed significant distances, even claiming to have visited the "great desert", most likely referencing the Crystal Desert:

Player: Have you traveled to many places?
Aife: Oh, yes—Lion's Arch, the Maguuma Wastes, the great desert...the world is wider than you can dream, Valiant. (Source)

A fun idea I had was that maybe the female archer could've run into Knut Whitebear's adventuring wife, the enchantress Gaerta Whitebear, in the far north, and they formed a dynamic duo (similar to the more villainous duo of the norn shaman Vilnia Shadowsong and the sylvari Noxia--I'd love to see these two villainesses return as they survived the encounter with traveling heroes!) in case this Firstborn wanted to learn about adventure from one of the renowned adventurers of her time. I could imagine Gaerta, who is also driven by wanderlust, eventually warming up to this curious Firstborn while taking her under her wing as a squire of sorts, and perhaps each woman could teach the other about life and adventure in general while bonding in the process (as a more benevolent version of the Riannoc+Waine partnership).

It's possible that we might encounter one of these two missing Firstborn in a potential future storyline revolving around the enigmatic sylvari Malyck and the second Pale Tree. Perhaps the armored male encountered Malyck and stayed with him to learn about Malyck's people (if any of them survived, as Malyck was seemingly disconnected from his grove's Dream) while he in turn could help temper Malyck's anger and feelings of vengeance.

As for the cycles these Firstborn would belong to, we can make some educated guesses based on the characteristics of the current Firstborn using the wiki's Firstborn page as a basis. It seems that there'd be an equal number of the four cycles divided between the 12 Firstborn, which means one cycle per three Firstborn. So it'd go: Dawn (Aife, very likely Dagonet due to him being a diplomat, and an unknown), Noon (Niamh, very likely Riannoc due to him being a knight, and an unknown), Dusk (Faolain, Kahedins, Trahearne), and Night (Caithe, Malomedies, Wynne).

This would suggest that the missing Firstborn are most likely of the Dawn and Noon cycles. The Dawn Firstborn would be, as per the sylvari biography options, a "natural talker, diplomat, and forward-thinker, intimately connected with their surroundings and markedly empathic toward all, even other races", while the Noon Firstborn would "solve problems by attacking them head-on, be a warrior, hunter, and traveler who experiences life first-hand and enjoys the rush of taking risks in order to feel truly alive". As it happens, both of those personality types would fit easily into my proposed "thrilling northern adventure with Gaerta" (Noon) and a diplomatic mission to Malyck's Grove (Dawn) although those could easily be reversed too: the Dawn sylvari might be the diplomatic, tender hand to temper Gaerta's impulses, while the Noon sylvari would be the adventurous kind assisting Malyck and his people against the threats looming around Malyck's Grove (potentially the remaining Mordrem and whatever other threats emerge).

So, there are many ways the story could go, and the missing Firstborn could play such a wide variety of roles. The examples I presented are just two out of many; after all, if Aife truly traveled to Elona and back before Kralkatorrik's rise blocked the land route south, who knows what adventures the unknown female and male Firstborn must have had over these past few decades depending on when they last returned to the Grove (assuming that they are still alive, of course). :)

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@The Greyhawk.9107 said:

@LSD.4673 said:Sylvari's the only racial story that's interested me. It's a real shame how these plot threads have been cast aside. It honestly seems like sylvari are done with now.Not just the two missing firstborns, but what about the rest of the firstborns themselves?So much wasted potential. The original plan for HoT must have been great.

Obviously not if it was so quickly cast aside. Maybe it had good ideas, but failed to create a good narrative with them.

Being cast aside doesn't mean they weren't good, it means they cut corners to meet a deadline. HoT seems to have a vast many half-implemented features that point to this being the case. Even the storyline itself is a meandering mess. Reeks of being culled to push the product out.

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Considering all the wardens maybe one of them went to cantha to do something in echovale.

There was all the staff, axe, and sword masters from HoT and they were meant to be a bigger deal then they were we kept fighting through the expansion. We did a bit but we didnt get much story about them. Only the sword master do they suggest was a sylvari from the pact when you do the event in the top left of VB. Wouldnt shock me if the two missing firstborn could have been the two unnamed ones.

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