Tengu could be a useable races on EOD

[Luthan.5236]

Yes. Good argument with the resources that could be used on other stuff. Especially people that might prefer another race ... could get angry. If only Tengu got added. (They still could do a tonic for Tengu though.)

Story: Could be possible that newer races could only play the later story. Would be less work. (Still the stuff with armor for the new races.)

Btw ... GW1 had only 1 playable race. :D (Even though there were different human races based by the campaign/starting continent. And heroes with different races that joined the party.)

[Linken.6345]

@Luthan.5236 said:Yes. Good argument with the resources that could be used on other stuff. Especially people that might prefer another race ... could get angry. If only Tengu got added. (They still could do a tonic for Tengu though.)

Story: Could be possible that newer races could only play the later story. Would be less work. (Still the stuff with armor for the new races.)

Btw ... GW1 had only 1 playable race. :D (Even though there were different human races based by the campaign/starting continent. And heroes with different races that joined the party.)

So how would the Tengu be setup to replace the core commander in the story, how would they be able to even relate with aurene and the other dragon watch members?

As others have said Tengu would have to be a completely new story at the side of the normal gw2 story as it cant mix with older story at all.

[Luthan.5236]

Guys from Tyria join up with the other guys in Cantha. And new race there gets a different starting story (only for chars there). Later it could merge and the episodes just having 1 generic npc guy playing the one that isn't played by the player character. (Voice acting for both. Just that in fights he is played by the computer/AI.)

[Linken.6345]

@Luthan.5236 said:Guys from Tyria join up with the other guys in Cantha. And new race there gets a different starting story (only for chars there). Later it could merge and the episodes just having 1 generic npc guy playing the one that isn't played by the player character. (Voice acting for both. Just that in fights he is played by the computer/AI.)

So the new guy is second in command kinda like commander now was in core story?

Yea that might work unsure if the new people are ok with playing second fiddle tho.

[Teratus.2859]

Adding new playable races at this point is practically impossible.The Commander is too integral to the progressing story line specially now that they are essentially a Dragon's Champion due to a bond that was build up over literal years!! of in game story content.

It would be a broken mess and a continuity problem with utterly no benefits what so ever to just start a new race so late into the story since your characters race means NOTHING! in this game from a gameplay perspective.Not to mention the whole "Oh that commander we followed for years and built a friendship with is just gone and this random nobody Tengu/Kodan etc is totally our new leader now.. cause reasons"..I mean people already criticise the writing in this game but holy hell would this one be the epitome of horrendous and broken writing lol

It's just far too late for new races now... or far too early..

The only way I can see new races being added to this game without completely screwing up the game's continuity and demanding a massive workload in the process is to do it AFTER! this Elder Dragon storyline officially ends and we move on to entirely new and separate story's that have nothing to do with the current story that Gw2 has been telling for the last several years.Adding playable Tengu, Kodan and other races that start in these new campaigns and that cannot play the older story missions.. that would be perfectly fine but I highly doubt Anet would do that due to the restrictions they would require and having to deal with the annoyance of fans saying "why can't I play HoT story as my Tengu etc"

I get the appeal though, I'd love to play as a Tengu myself but there's no way they could make a Tengu "commander" and do it justice at this point.. especially since the very lore of the game forbids such a thing from happening.

Either they add them in for a second main campaign in the future canonically after the Dragon Story ends or never add new races at all.. and honestly I think the latter is the far far more likely outcome there.You'd have a better chance asking for new classes.. which is another thing that is extremely unlikely to happen due to the sheer workload required and the problems it would cause.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Fenella.2634 said:Several people have suggested to skip most or all of the previous story with Tengu.

However, this does not work. The PC's bond with Aurene is crucial to the plot and very unique. Without that, how can Tengu get the same plot moving forward as the older characters?And in order to have this bond, we need to have at least LS2 and everything that followed as canon for the character.Having a generic Commander character die and be replaced by the Tengu PC would not be the same, so going forward, this Tengu would have to have a different story, even after their introduction.

This, plus the 6 new voice actors needed for all future content. Phew. All that just for a bit of cosmetics? I don't think it's worth it.

Hey, if i could choose to not be the chosen pet of aurene, i would be all for it. Really, being a side character could be an improvement to the story. But then anet would have to make two stories. Still, saving the planet, again, when aurene could do it better and faster (immortal, stronger being alive) means the commander is redundant anyway.

So you want to go back to core story telling were you were the second in command and treherene took all the glory?Alot of people hated that hence why he is not around anymore.

What could possible lead you to that conclusion? But now that you brought that up...

From my point of view, Trahearne didn't wilfully take all the glory, but since the future of the entire world was pushed on his shoulders by his mom, and since he probably wanted to help people survive, Caladbolg helped him along. As in, to everyone else, it was like there was themselves together with Trahearne and no one else. Then Trahearne, in their eyes, saved them single handedly, while the commander and everyone else around were basically just shadows who were easy to ignore. As in, Caladbolg helped him become a victim of destiny. Simply put: Be what you were born to be, what you were meant to be, not what you want to be. Give up your dreams or the world ends, or civilization anyway. World ending threat number 1 in an endless list of doomsdays events. Is anyone else tired of the same old crap?

I simply think aurene made the story 10x worse than anything that could have happened if it didn't exist. How? Who knows, but anything would be better than this. Yes, even another doomsday event, as long as it doesn't include aurene, but it's way too late for that now.

[Linken.6345]

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Linken.6345 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Fenella.2634 said:Several people have suggested to skip most or all of the previous story with Tengu.

However, this does not work. The PC's bond with Aurene is crucial to the plot and very unique. Without that, how can Tengu get the same plot moving forward as the older characters?And in order to have this bond, we need to have at least LS2 and everything that followed as canon for the character.Having a generic Commander character die and be replaced by the Tengu PC would not be the same, so going forward, this Tengu would have to have a different story, even after their introduction.

This, plus the 6 new voice actors needed for all future content. Phew. All that just for a bit of cosmetics? I don't think it's worth it.

Hey, if i could choose to not be the chosen pet of aurene, i would be all for it. Really, being a side character could be an improvement to the story. But then anet would have to make two stories. Still, saving the planet, again, when aurene could do it better and faster (immortal, stronger being alive) means the commander is redundant anyway.

So you want to go back to core story telling were you were the second in command and treherene took all the glory?Alot of people hated that hence why he is not around anymore.

What could possible lead you to that conclusion? But now that you brought that up...

From my point of view, Trahearne didn't wilfully take all the glory, but since the future of the entire world was pushed on his shoulders by his mom, and since he probably wanted to help people survive, Caladbolg helped him along. As in, to everyone else, it was like there was themselves together with Trahearne and no one else. Then Trahearne, in their eyes, saved them single handedly, while the commander and everyone else around were basically just shadows who were easy to ignore. As in, Caladbolg helped him become a victim of destiny. Simply put: Be what you were born to be, what you were meant to be, not what you want to be. Give up your dreams or the world ends, or civilization anyway. World ending threat number 1 in an endless list of doomsdays events. Is anyone else tired of the same old kitten?

I simply think aurene made the story 10x worse than anything that could have happened if it didn't exist. How? Who knows, but anything would be better than this. Yes, even another doomsday event, as long as it doesn't include aurene, but it's way too late for that now.

Well maybe read they person I replied too?

[Luthan.5236]

@Linken.6345 said:

@"Luthan.5236" said:Guys from Tyria join up with the other guys in Cantha. And new race there gets a different starting story (only for chars there). Later it could merge and the episodes just having 1 generic npc guy playing the one that isn't played by the player character. (Voice acting for both. Just that in fights he is played by the computer/AI.)

So the new guy is second in command kinda like commander now was in core story?

Yea that might work unsure if the new people are ok with playing second fiddle tho.Personally I do not even want Tengu. If they added Tengu then I would like other races as well - which I might like more. Best option would be to only make them importand NPC races (allies).

But yeah: I do not think this would be a bad idea. In core story it worked well. To help Trahearne with his Wyld Hunt was a good story. And you still did the major stuff and the NPCs at the end cheered for you - after killing Zhaitan. There is also western stories like with King Arthur where Arthur technically was the king and Merlin working in the background. Still there existed movies and series that were popular - with Merlin as main character.

Most people either care about gameplay (and rewards and stuff) or stuff like story - where they might like a good story/plot. But such minor details would not make it worse. (Can even be better.) People that want the best can look in the gameplay (doing raids and fractals and getting hard to earn titles to brag with).

---

Bigger problem that came to my mind: In the old maps (aside from the story, normal open world map) the events are designed in a way that you are the commander and NPCs react towards you based on that. You could either ban the new races from even accessing the old maps. Or just leaving the events as they are. (Or do a ton of work and change stuff dependin on the race played.) I do not think any 1 of these options is satisfying. Only the really hardcore Tengu fans that just say "I want Tengu no matter the cost" would be okay with it. (And I do not think it would be worth spending resources just for them.)

---

Edit: Technically there is still a marshal in the pact (afaik Logan ... at lest at the point where I am playing now ... start of season 4 I play atm). Just that he is in the background and that it feels weird to have your NPC allies call you "commander" when you aren't actually commanding anything anymore. More like a friend adventuring with them.

[Fuchslein.8639]

Why not do like other MMO's that have introduced other classes or something and were introduced with a certain LVL and requirements to create?They were then treated as normally created characters and all the pre-stuff was pinned on them. I mean, with logic or common sense has Anet's lore and many decisions anyway not to do. (Just recently learned that they deny a thing because the Griffin would allegedly be too heavy, but giant Norns and Charr can do that without problems ...)I'm not a big fan of the Tengus I see in the game, but I'd be curious to see how we could them designe in the charcreator.

However, I also strongly doubt that something like that would come. Because besides all the lore stuff, I see the biggest problem in the customization of armor and everything.When you hear how many things are rejected because of clipping, but then in-game 80% is clipping anyway I do not want to know what a mess Tengus would be ...

[kharmin.7683]

@Fuchslein.8639 said:Why not do like other MMO's that have introduced other classes or something and were introduced with a certain LVL and requirements to create?They were then treated as normally created characters and all the pre-stuff was pinned on them.Because there will be players who would want to use this race from the start and complete the content from the beginning.

[Obtena.7952]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Fuchslein.8639 said:Why not do like other MMO's that have introduced other classes or something and were introduced with a certain LVL and requirements to create?They were then treated as normally created characters and all the pre-stuff was pinned on them.Because there will be players who would want to use this race from the start and complete the content from the beginning.

Not only this ... but we have to remember this is being proposed in an expansion ... so a player buys an expansion and some of the content is locked behind:

1. A new character slot
2. Time dedicated to leveling that new character
3. certain LVL and requirements to create that character

Forget that ... considering the minimal value you get from a race, it should be the opposite ... Anet should be handing out a free character slot, an 80 booster and a bunch of gear to play that new Tengu character.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Fuchslein.8639 said:Why not do like other MMO's that have introduced other classes or something and were introduced with a certain LVL and requirements to create?Because in this MMORPG your character matters. In other MMORPGs, where your character is nothing more, really, than an observer, and a participant (one of many) of events, you can do it, because there's no impact on the story whatsoever if the observer/participant changes. The events will still continue regardless, with other, truly important (NPC) characters doing stuff that moves the story forward. You can start from point X, because, in reality, your character hadn't done anything important enough in the past that will have any impact on the story moving forward. In GW2 you can't do that - not without it heavily complicating the storyline, that from that point will have to include multiple past histories. With some of them having much lower impact than the others.

Just look at whole LS 4 and LS 5, for example. They all depend on Commander being the Aurene's chosen - an unique connection that takes place during LS3, so even before PoF. If a new race were to be introduced during PoF, and started at this point, it could not really participate in all the following story up until now. Not as the protagonist of that story.

Sure, you could technically start a completely new storyline that in no way would be connected to what had happened before, but that would be extremely limiting. Especially in an expansion that is supposed to be a closing act in the current story.

[Fuchslein.8639]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Fuchslein.8639 said:Why not do like other MMO's that have introduced other classes or something and were introduced with a certain LVL and requirements to create?Because in this MMORPG your character

matters

. In other MMORPGs, where your character is nothing more, really, than an observer, and a participant (one of many) of events, you can do it, because there's no impact on the story whatsoever if the observer/participant changes. The events will still continue regardless, with other, truly important (NPC) characters doing stuff that moves the story forward. You can start from point X, because, in reality, your character hadn't done anything important enough in the past that will have any impact on the story moving forward. In GW2 you can't do that - not without it heavily complicating the storyline, that from that point will have to include multiple past histories. With some of them having much lower impact than the others.

Just look at whole LS 4 and LS 5, for example. They all depend on Commander being

the

Aurene's chosen - an unique connection that takes place during LS3, so even before PoF. If a new race were to be introduced during PoF, and started at this point, it could not really participate in all the following story up until now. Not as the protagonist of that story.

Sure, you could technically start a completely new storyline that in no way would be connected to what had happened before, but that would be extremely limiting. Especially in an expansion that is supposed to be a

closing act in the current story

.

I meant that you just pretend that this character is the same as the other races. No new story. I don't think most people would even care. Many would just be happy about playable tengus.Here in the forum there would probably be a short rant, but that would die down as quickly as the many rants that have already happened here.

The story of gw2 is really not that good and well thought out that there would be anything to say against it except that anet would have to put resources into it that they probably don't have.But this is just my personal opinion about the lore-thing. Tengus themselves do not interest me so much. Except I could design my own Ravioli-Birb with them x3.

[Yasai.3549]

It honestly doesn't matter if they adding Tengus shouldn't be an issue, since they already use Charr mesh to some extent.It's only an issue if there is a problem with modelling new outfits of existing clothing to fit Tengus.(Which I think there shouldn't be)

[Obfuscate.6430]

I think what really did the damage was the information that Tengu were initially going to be the playable race instead of charr and the Dominion of Winds was going to be their home city. Knowing there's assets for it feels like Arenanet made us a cake but left it just out of reach. The reality may be that there is no cake but it doesn't stop anyone from wanting it.

[kharmin.7683]

@Fuchslein.8639 said:I meant that you just pretend that this character is the same as the other races. No new story. I don't think most people would even care.And I think that most people would. Without any factual evidence either way, Anet would have a really difficult time in making a decision that might or might not kitten off a lot of the player base.

[Obtena.7952]

@Yasai.3549 said:It honestly doesn't matter if they adding Tengus shouldn't be an issue, since they already use Charr mesh to some extent.It's only an issue if there is a problem with modelling new outfits of existing clothing to fit Tengus.(Which I think there shouldn't be)

Well, it's the whole reason they don't sell armor sets on GS ... so we know it's an issue.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Obfuscate.6430" said:I think what really did the damage was the information that Tengu were initially going to be the playable race instead of charr and the Dominion of Winds was going to be their home city.

That's factually untrue. They defined the five playable races even before they started working on gw2 - and all those races got introduced in Eye of the North expansion. Charr, Asura and Norn got their own storylines. Sylvari got teased in story closing animation. Tengu got what? Absolutely nothing.

You could easily see from that that Charr, Asura and Norn were originarily meant to enhance the human-only so far race pool (and we've been confirmed that by the devs, and told about Sylvari right away as well). Tengu obviously were not part of that initial plan at all.

Sure, they later admitted they at some point thought about introducing Tengu as a sixth race, and even made some partial work on it, but they never really went far with it, and the idea was soon scrapped.

There was never an "initially", nor "instead of" in it.

[Perisemiotics.4579]

unless anyone here is an ANet former/current employee, whcih doesn't appear to be the case, we don't know if that'll come or not. Yes, devs years ago said probably not because of this and that, but things change, nothing ever stays the same, or almost nothing. Personally idc if they come out as a new race or not but I just find natural (new) players interested in it and asking for it, unlike the bazillion answers "no, no, no, get over it, etc." from other players that are just... players.

[Linken.6345]

@"Perisemiotics.4579" said:unless anyone here is an ANet former/current employee, whcih doesn't appear to be the case, we don't know if that'll come or not. Yes, devs years ago said probably not because of this and that, but things change, nothing ever stays the same, or almost nothing. Personally idc if they come out as a new race or not but I just find natural (new) players interested in it and asking for it, unlike the bazillion answers "no, no, no, get over it, etc." from other players that are just... players.

Yes and then we have the players that phrase their comments like.

When this get implemented like its already a done deal, be it tengu or player housing etc.

Should you not correct them and say we dont know?

[StrangeSelcouth nz.9256]

@Tseison.4659 said:

@"maddoctor.2738" said:This isn't like adding a new profession, adding the Revenant made no sense lore-wise, as the "first Revenant" was supposed to be Rytlock, after he entered the Mists. But at least that wasn't a big development problem, as adding all the dialogues would certainly be.

If Tengu are added to the game, their story will begin with the content they are added in. This includes voice lines, and probably armor sets too.

100% agree with this.If the Tengu were to let's say start in the Cantha, they're story can revolve around whats happening in Cantha which is what the rest of us will have to deal with when we get there. The deep sea dragon and then they can perhaps have us visit the capital city of the Doman of the Winds. Tengu don't necessarily have to have some sort of relationship with Aurene and not every Tengu knows about her since majority of them kept to themselves or some tribes are in the Cantha region. So whats to say that some tengu allied themselves with the deep sea dragon. :)

Maybe if Tengu gets a separate story line, they may be the champion of Kuunavang. Players coming from tyria, i.e. the commander and aurene, would join forces with the "tengu commander" and kuunavang to fight against bubbles?