Primordus' Rampage

[The Greyhawk.9107]

My question is a simple one, considering that Primodus had been awake for just over 200 years before being temporarily forced into a dormant state, why is his re-awakening a much larger threat to Tyria than he was for the last 200 years awake? Does it have to do with the deaths of now three Elder Dragons, the Ascension of Aurene, is Jormag pulling even more bull shit on us somehow, or something completely unknown the cause?

[Stephen.6312]

@"The Greyhawk.9107" said:My question is a simple one, considering that Primodus had been awake for just over 200 years before being temporarily forced into a dormant state, why is his re-awakening a much larger threat to Tyria than he was for the last 200 years awake? Does it have to do with the deaths of now three Elder Dragons, the Ascension of Aurene, is Jormag pulling even more bull kitten on us somehow, or something completely unknown the cause?

Good question. My impressions are much like your own. I struggle to see Primordus as much more of a threat now than he was before.

The way the PC is conversing with others, no one seems to have much of a clue about how everything works...which makes it hard to understand why anyone would take the threat of Primordus any more seriously now than they did before.

One closing thought, though, is that Prim's forces seem to show more interest in surface civilizations than before. Maybe the little disruption that they're causing is making members of the Five Playable Races nervous because of the reports of Prim's destruction brought to them by the remaining dwarves. Most of the more powerful destroyers that we fight are known for their successes against the dwarves. If they can do that to a race that transformed itself into a "living weapon", I guess they can do a lot more to other races that have not.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Basically its because the Dwarves have held him back for most of that time.

Lore-wise, very few Destroyers have made it to the surface, and its repeatedly stated in the Personal Story to be cause for alarm when they do. But slowly over the years we have seen more and more Destroyers, culminating with them flooding the entire maps of Ember Bay and Draconis Mons prior to putting Primordus to sleep. This is even commented on several times in those campaigns.

Primordus was always a serious threat, it was just never expected the Dwarves would lose their battle. The amount of Destroyers in Tyria was formerly very small compared to all the Branded, Icebrood and Risen.

[Randulf.7614]

Yeah I assumed it was a combo of rising power levels from the death of other dragons abd the failure of the dwarves to keep him in check.

It’s possible the events in ls3 ep5 angered him considerably and on his stirring back awake again is turning his attention more seriously to the surface now he sees the threat we have become.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@Hannelore.8153 said:Basically its because the Dwarves have held him back for most of that time.

Lore-wise, very few Destroyers have made it to the surface, and its repeatedly stated in the Personal Story to be cause for alarm when they do. But slowly over the years we have seen more and more Destroyers, culminating with them flooding the entire maps of Ember Bay and Draconis Mons prior to putting Primordus to sleep. This is even commented on several times in those campaigns.

Primordus was always a serious threat, it was just never expected the Dwarves would lose their battle. The amount of Destroyers in Tyria was formerly very small compared to all the Branded, Icebrood and Risen.

It certainly seemed that way for the longest time, though I don't think anyone from either the player base of the characters genuinely thought that the dwarves were going to hold out for forever, but Anet randomly tossing in a bunch of dwarves for the first time (other than Ogden and the guy thats only a head) seems to put a wrench in that, or at least it feels like it does. There's also the change in tactics, focusing on targets that are comparatively more heavily populated.

[Fueki.4753]

Before, his destryoers had no resonance with Primordus.He just made them and they went destroying.

But now, after sucking up Kralkatorrik's magic, he becomes stronger the more his minions destroy.That's why the destruction is much worse now.

However, since this magic also doubled as Kralkatorrik's weakness (as it made him weak to his own crystal magic), Fire should be one of Primordus' weaknesses now (and ice one of Jormag's, as Jormag utilizes this magic as well).But I can see Arenanet forgetting about the downside, despite its importance in season 4.

[EdwinLi.1284]

@The Greyhawk.9107 said:

@Hannelore.8153 said:Basically its because the Dwarves have held him back for most of that time.

Lore-wise, very few Destroyers have made it to the surface, and its repeatedly stated in the Personal Story to be cause for alarm when they do. But slowly over the years we have seen more and more Destroyers, culminating with them flooding the entire maps of Ember Bay and Draconis Mons prior to putting Primordus to sleep. This is even commented on several times in those campaigns.

Primordus was always a serious threat, it was just never expected the Dwarves would lose their battle. The amount of Destroyers in Tyria was formerly very small compared to all the Branded, Icebrood and Risen.

It certainly seemed that way for the longest time, though I don't think anyone from either the player base of the characters genuinely thought that the dwarves were going to hold out for forever, but Anet randomly tossing in a bunch of dwarves for the first time (other than Ogden and the guy thats only a head) seems to put a wrench in that, or at least it feels like it does. There's also the change in tactics, focusing on targets that are comparatively more heavily populated.

from the first Champion trailer, there may have been a bit more story missions involving the dwarf's return before that specific Story mission but they may have been scrapped due to internal issues with finishing those content in the planned schedule.

A good amount of Champion's story feels like it is missing due to the current state of our world today from how work places must work under certain limits just to keep working.

[Sajuuk Khar.1509]

@EdwinLi.1284 said:from the first Champion trailer, there may have been a bit more story missions involving the dwarf's return before that specific Story mission but they may have been scrapped due to internal issues with finishing those content in the planned schedule.There's really nothing in the first trailer that suggests that. We see the dwarves in Ebonhawk, but the dwarven allies can show up there, and in any DRM for that matter.

@Fueki.4753 said:Before, his destryoers had no resonance with Primordus.He just made them and they went destroying.

But now, after sucking up Kralkatorrik's magic, he becomes stronger the more his minions destroy.That's why the destruction is much worse now.

However, since this magic also doubled as Kralkatorrik's weakness (as it made him weak to his own crystal magic), Fire should be one of Primordus' weaknesses now (and ice one of Jormag's, as Jormag utilizes this magic as well).But I can see Arenanet forgetting about the downside, despite its importance in season 4.That's not really how the magic absorption works. Kralk didn't get Zhaitan's weakness of overly specialized minions, or Mordremoth's weakness of mind.

[Fueki.4753]

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:That's not really how the magic absorption works. Kralk didn't get Zhaitan's weakness of overly specialized minions, or Mordremoth's weakness of mind.Kralkatorrik didn't use mind magic or overly specialized minions, so there is way of knowing now, whether he might have had these weaknesses, if he had used them.However, the downside I mentioned is an inherent part of the minion resonance magic that has been confirmed to be used by both Jormag and Primordus.

[Tyson.5160]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:That's not really how the magic absorption works. Kralk didn't get Zhaitan's weakness of overly specialized minions, or Mordremoth's weakness of mind.Kralkatorrik didn't use mind magic or overly specialized minions, so there is way of knowing now, whether he might have had these weaknesses, if he had used them.However, the downside I mentioned is an inherent part of the minion resonance magic that has been confirmed to be used by both Jormag and Primordus.

Kralkatorrik did have the mind domain though.

PA Announcer: Imagine! Communications technology enhanced by the unique hive-mind abilities of Kralkatorrik's minions.Taimi: What? Their hive mind?Taimi: I wonder if that ability is something Kralkatorrik absorbed after Mordremoth's death. Some piece of its magical nature.

The resonance weakness that Crystal dragon had, was a weakness only to Kralkatorrik. Primordus appears to have taken a trait of Crystal magic domain and twisted it to his benefit.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@EdwinLi.1284 said:from the first Champion trailer, there may have been a bit more story missions involving the dwarf's return before that specific Story mission but they may have been scrapped due to internal issues with finishing those content in the planned schedule.

A good amount of Champion's story feels like it is missing due to the current state of our world today from how work places must work under certain limits just to keep working.

Feels like a hell of a lot more than just Champions got scraped, more like half of IBS, but that's an aside.

[draxynnic.3719]

Personally, I'm wondering if part of the reason why Primordus is being more aggressive is that he's feeling more threatened.

Balthazar nearly killed him, after all. Furthermore, he probably senses that Jormag has just had a big power spike, and if the Jormag-Primordus rivalry has been going on for a while (and the two apparently fought during the last Dragonrise, so that does appear to be the case), Primordus sensing a sharp increase in Jormag's power might lead him to desperately grab as much as he could to ensure he gets the upper hand.

Makes me wonder who actually started the rivalry. If Jormag's been actively seeking Primordus' death, and Jormag has a track record of manipulating mortals to try to achieve that, then... well, Primordus's behaviour would be consistent with a being that's been attacked so many times that his instinct is to find a deep hole to hide in and then push any potential threats as far away as possible.

[Teratus.2859]

There are a few factors in play.

First of all the Dwarves as others have said have been keeping him occupied underground for a very very long time and until recently have managed to stalemate the majority of his minions over that time.However they are now starting to loose this battle as Primordus has become significantly more powerful.

Secondly.. well I just said it but Primordus has become significantly more powerful due to the death's of Zhaitan, Mordrmeoth and Kralkatorrik and has modified himself with some of their abilities, the most notable being this new power seemingly from Kralkatorrik aka the feedback loop with his minions.The more his minions burn the stronger Primordus becomes and the stronger Primordus become the stronger and more rabid his minions become..We also know Jormag appears to have this same ability now with the Frozen.. the more it freezes the stronger it gets as well.

So knowing that Primordus becomes stronger by having his minions burn and destroy.. this explains their new appearances and behaviour on the surface.The Dwarves as said are now loosing the battle with Primordus so they too are being pushed back to the surface to join forces with the anti-dragon factions that seek to end Primordus.

So to answer your question as simply as possible.. Why is his second awakening this cycle so much more of a threat?

Well it's because he is far more powerful than he was 200 years ago and has new abilities that he didn't have 200 years ago, he is now winning the fight against the only faction that was standing in his way and he gets even more powerful based on how much destruction and burninating the countryside he does.Props if you get that reference XD

[Hypnowulf.7403]

It's always interesting how neurotypicals seem to support and worship psychopathy. I mean, if that weren't the case we wouldn't have the Judge Rotenberg Center so I don't have to prove that... I do find it vexing, however, that they never move beyond it.

I mean, even though I want to see Primordus redeemed—I'd be the first to notice that Primordus is flaying people and burning them alive. I'd also be the first to notice that he's targeting the most vulnerable settlements to cause as much suffering and death as possible. That was covered fairly well in one DRM. We also know that Jormag is by far the less powerful of the two as that's been stated repeatedly as well.

I mean, what Jormag did at Lake Doric was obviously out of desperation—no denying that—but they didn't actually kill anyone. And we saw at the end of Jormag Rising that they can free people from ice without harming them. If Primordus had taken Lake Doric, there would've been many lives lost as there have been in other DRMs.

Yet Primordus is the innocent one—scared of Jormag? I mean, really Draxynnic? Really? You can take being a poster-child for the neurotypical worship of psychopathy too far. Again, I want Primordus to be redeemed but to claim that they're the victim here is insanity.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

I think the deaths of three Elder Dragons is the exact cause (that, and a swap in writers who often overlook or change a lot of lore predating the latest two seasons of the release), since this would mean Primordus has fewer rivalries (2-or-3 versus original 5) and also has more magic.

And as Randulf said, there would be fewer dwarves around now, but also a lot of destroyers from that 200 year buildup. So Primordus has a much better starting point this time than he did 200 years ago, giving him a similar starting point as Zhaitan who woke up with a ton of powerful magical artifacts and an entire army right under his wings, and as such was the most devastating of the Elder Dragons to Central Tyria despite his magic having been drained while asleep.

[EdwinLi.1284]

@"draxynnic.3719" said:Personally, I'm wondering if part of the reason why Primordus is being more aggressive is that he's feeling more threatened.

Balthazar nearly killed him, after all. Furthermore, he probably senses that Jormag has just had a big power spike, and if the Jormag-Primordus rivalry has been going on for a while (and the two apparently fought during the last Dragonrise, so that does appear to be the case), Primordus sensing a sharp increase in Jormag's power might lead him to desperately grab as much as he could to ensure he gets the upper hand.

Makes me wonder who actually started the rivalry. If Jormag's been actively seeking Primordus' death, and Jormag has a track record of manipulating mortals to try to achieve that, then... well, Primordus's behaviour would be consistent with a being that's been attacked so many times that his instinct is to find a deep hole to hide in and then push any potential threats as far away as possible.

We never really had much insight into the mind of Primordus from the beginning anyways. Hard to tell if he does this out of personal fear or simply because he just craves destruction for the sake of it. He is probably the one Elder Dragon we encounter that we don't have much understand about in a personality level compared to other Elder Dragons we encountered so far where we get some kind of understanding about them with each encounter.

-Zhaitan wanted the entire world to be Undead because life between being dead and alive was his ideal world where it is free from the fears of dying and living.

-Jormag is all about preserving the world in Ice to put it in a eternal stagnation so nothing will ever change and no one can ever harm each other when frozen.

-Mordremoth was just "My mind is the only one that matters" so his ideal world was one where everything is linked together under one mind and one body being his mind and body.

-Kralkatorrik was just going crazy because he consumed way too much magical energy to a point his mind split into two personalites being one side is his original personality probably before Elder Dragons became Elder Dragons and the other being a chaotic destruction seeking maniac.

[draxynnic.3719]

@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@"draxynnic.3719" said:Personally, I'm wondering if part of the reason why Primordus is being more aggressive is that he's feeling more

threatened.

Balthazar nearly killed him, after all. Furthermore, he probably senses that Jormag has just had a big power spike, and if the Jormag-Primordus rivalry has been going on for a while (and the two apparently fought during the last Dragonrise, so that does appear to be the case), Primordus sensing a sharp increase in Jormag's power might lead him to desperately grab as much as he could to ensure he gets the upper hand.

Makes me wonder who actually started the rivalry. If Jormag's been actively seeking Primordus' death, and Jormag has a track record of manipulating mortals to try to achieve that, then... well, Primordus's behaviour would be consistent with a being that's been attacked so many times that his instinct is to find a deep hole to hide in and then push any potential threats as far away as possible.

We never really had much insight into the mind of Primordus from the beginning anyways. Hard to tell if he does this out of personal fear or simply because he just craves destruction for the sake of it. He is probably the one Elder Dragon we encounter that we don't have much understand about in a personality level compared to other Elder Dragons we encountered so far where we get some kind of understanding about them with each encounter.

-Zhaitan wanted the entire world to be Undead because life between being dead and alive was his ideal world where it is free from the fears of dying and living.

-Jormag is all about preserving the world in Ice to put it in a eternal stagnation so nothing will ever change and no one can ever harm each other when frozen.

-Mordremoth was just "My mind is the only one that matters" so his ideal world was one where everything is linked together under one mind and one body being his mind and body.

-Kralkatorrik was just going crazy because he consumed way too much magical energy to a point his mind split into two personalites being one side is his original personality probably before Elder Dragons became Elder Dragons and the other being a chaotic destruction seeking maniac.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. By Elder Dragon standards, Jormag is relatively extroverted and downright chatty. Zhaitan and Mordremoth mostly spoke through minions (apart from sylvari). Kralkatorrik and Primordus, on the other hand, have been pretty quiet - our main insights into Kralkatorrik's personality and motivations required someone jumping into his mind, and we haven't had the opportunity to do that with Primordus.

Now, don't get me wrong - Primordus' behaviour is definitely also perfectly consistent with just being a monster. But it is common behaviour among animals that feel threatened to lash out at anything nearby, which can become permanent behaviour if they're sufficiently traumatised to push them to permanent paranoia. Humans under these circumstances don't necessarily do so physically, but might push people away through rude and antisocial language and behaviour to stop anyone from getting close enough to hurt them again. The Elder Dragon equivalent of this would likely be sending minions out to attack everything within reach indiscriminately.

The interesting thing here is that the second DRM in this release has added additional weight to the 'Braham has some link to Destroyers' theory, so we might get some insight into Primordus' motivations through that vector.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@"Hypnowulf.7403" said:It's always interesting how neurotypicals seem to support and worship psychopathy. I mean, if that weren't the case we wouldn't have the Judge Rotenberg Center so I don't have to prove that... I do find it vexing, however, that they never move beyond it.

I mean, even though I want to see Primordus redeemed—I'd be the first to notice that Primordus is flaying people and burning them alive. I'd also be the first to notice that he's targeting the most vulnerable settlements to cause as much suffering and death as possible. That was covered fairly well in one DRM. We also know that Jormag is by far the less powerful of the two as that's been stated repeatedly as well.

I mean, what Jormag did at Lake Doric was obviously out of desperation—no denying that—but they didn't actually kill anyone. And we saw at the end of Jormag Rising that they can free people from ice without harming them. If Primordus had taken Lake Doric, there would've been many lives lost as there have been in other DRMs.

Yet Primordus is the innocent one—scared of Jormag? I mean, really Draxynnic? Really? You can take being a poster-child for the neurotypical worship of psychopathy too far. Again, I want Primordus to be redeemed but to claim that they're the victim here is insanity.

And you take your constant use of a video game forum to espouse your hatred of so called neurotypicals your own socio-political ideology too far. Where do you come off calling Drax or anyone else here "worshipers of psychopathy" when you've been cheering for a Dragon's whose main power is manipulation for the last couple of years? How do you even know that anyone here is a so called "neurotypical"? Despite your attributing that term to me in a past disagreement the fact is that I myself am not a neurotypical, so I don't think you're able to objectively tell if Drax or anyone else here is or isn't.

Cite your sources, where has it been stated that Jormag is significantly less powerful than Primordus, much less "by far less powerful"? How do you know that Jormag attacking Lake Doric was "out of desperation"? And where does Drax claim that Primordus is an innocent victim? I saw neither of those words used by anyone else here.

[Poormany.4507]

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. By Elder Dragon standards, Jormag is relatively extroverted and downright chatty. Zhaitan and Mordremoth mostly spoke through minions (apart from sylvari). Kralkatorrik and Primordus, on the other hand, have been pretty quiet - our main insights into Kralkatorrik's personality and motivations required someone jumping into his mind, and we haven't had the opportunity to do that with Primordus.

Now, don't get me wrong - Primordus' behaviour is

definitely

also perfectly consistent with just being a monster. But it is common behaviour among animals that feel threatened to lash out at anything nearby, which can become permanent behaviour if they're sufficiently traumatised to push them to permanent paranoia. Humans under these circumstances don't necessarily do so physically, but might push people away through rude and antisocial language and behaviour to stop anyone from getting close enough to hurt them again. The Elder Dragon equivalent of this would likely be sending minions out to attack everything within reach indiscriminately.

I do wonder though if in the near future Primordus will be able to communicate with us, and/or start using tactics, as it is mentioned in game that Primordus has recently processed Mordremoth's magic to a further extent. We've already seen Jormag and Primordus gaining their new "hive mind" type abilities to absorb power through their minions from the dead elder dragons, so I wonder if Primordus gained some form of intelligence from the newly processed Mordremoth magic and not just being a mindless raging monster anymore. This could also tie in with the "Braham is becoming Primordus' champion" theory floating around if that's the case.

[draxynnic.3719]

@Poormany.4507 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@EdwinLi.1284 said:

@draxynnic.3719 said:Yeah, that's pretty much what I was thinking. By Elder Dragon standards, Jormag is relatively extroverted and downright chatty. Zhaitan and Mordremoth mostly spoke through minions (apart from sylvari). Kralkatorrik and Primordus, on the other hand, have been pretty quiet - our main insights into Kralkatorrik's personality and motivations required someone jumping into his mind, and we haven't had the opportunity to do that with Primordus.

Now, don't get me wrong - Primordus' behaviour is

definitely

also perfectly consistent with just being a monster. But it is common behaviour among animals that feel threatened to lash out at anything nearby, which can become permanent behaviour if they're sufficiently traumatised to push them to permanent paranoia. Humans under these circumstances don't necessarily do so physically, but might push people away through rude and antisocial language and behaviour to stop anyone from getting close enough to hurt them again. The Elder Dragon equivalent of this would likely be sending minions out to attack everything within reach indiscriminately.

I do wonder though if in the near future Primordus will be able to communicate with us, and/or start using tactics, as it is mentioned in game that Primordus has recently processed Mordremoth's magic to a further extent. We've already seen Jormag and Primordus gaining their new "hive mind" type abilities to absorb power through their minions from the dead elder dragons, so I wonder if Primordus gained some form of intelligence from the newly processed Mordremoth magic and not just being a mindless raging monster anymore. This could also tie in with the "Braham is becoming Primordus' champion" theory floating around if that's the case.

Yeah - as I indicated, I've been wondering if this is the purpose of the 'Braham can sense destroyers' plot thread. It's possible that at some point he'll be able to hear Primordus' thoughts and give us an indication of what his actual goals and motivations are.

That said, I would say that in light of the revelation of the feedback loop, there are signs of possible strategic thinking behind Primordus' moves. Attacking Rata Sum might have been triggered by Ryland's presence - if we assume that Primordus has been paying attention to the asura at all, preventing an alliance between the asura and Jormag might be something he'd consider worth trying. After that, the chapter 1 DRMs are mostly focused around picking out relatively soft targets to destroy (and therefore harvest power from) while diverting possible defensive forces by feinting at more valuable targets (something I've done myself in strategy games, albeit usually with more of a 'wear the enemy down' strategy than an 'empower myself' strategy). In chapter 2, he starts hitting at harder targets, suggesting that he's built up enough power that he feels confident enough to do so.

Or he could just be blindly lashing out at whatever's within his minion-enhanced reach. Or something in between.

[Teratus.2859]

Dunno why some of you guys want Primordus redeemed, if anything I want him to be exactly what we expect him to be.. a being of pure destruction and evil.We already had this redemption not it's fault thing with Kralkatorrik, no need to do that again specially with Primordus.

We've already got Jormag playing the "im not bad really" card while clearly being a bad dragon.For Primordus I want to be dealing with essentially a pure evil, living nuclear bomb who's only agenda is to watch the world burn.That to me makes him far, far more dangerous than any other enemy we've had in Gw2, including the other Elder Dragons and I want to see that represented in the game with us feeling almost completely useless and outclassed compared to him.We came close to something like that with Kralkatorrik but in the end it was just setback after setback.

With Primordus they need to go all the way.. like Smaug in the hobbit when he just flies off and destroys lake town while the heros can do nothing but watch the carnage completely helpless to do anything.. I hope we get something like that with Primordus where we see the cost of our failure through the carnage and destruction he wages on the world and the regret that we once spared his life really kicks us in the gut.I want Dragon's Watch to be brought to the absolute brink of giving up and accepting the end of the world due to witnessing the sheer power of Primordus.

[Fueki.4753]

@Teratus.2859 said:Dunno why some of you guys want Primordus redeemed, if anything I want him to be exactly what we expect him to be.. a being of pure destruction and evil.Can we really say he's evil though?For all we know, Primordus may just be a mindless beast that's closer to a natural disaster than anything else.I really would call such a thing evil.

[Teratus.2859]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Teratus.2859 said:Dunno why some of you guys want Primordus redeemed, if anything I want him to be exactly what we expect him to be.. a being of pure destruction and evil.Can we really say he's evil though?For all we know, Primordus may just be a mindless beast that's closer to a natural disaster than anything else.I really would call such a thing evil.

Well good and evil are ultimately perspectives.. some would consider a natural disaster evil, others wouldn't.But I don't think Primordus is mindless.. while we don't know the origins of the Elder Dragons I do think they were once normal Dragons and they became Elder's via similar means as Aurine did.

Kralkatorrik after all mentioned a mother and we know Jormag and Primordus are siblings and since we know dragons reproduce solo in this universe it suggests that they too have or had a parent at one point.While it doesn't rule out that they were born with their power it does leave room to speculate that Elder Dragons are something they became and that there was something else before them which they potentially usurped to become what we know them to be today.

Unfortunately this kind of lore would date back tens of thousands of years.. possibly millions and so far as we know there is nothing on Tyria that old aside from the Elder Dragons themselves and I doubt Jormag would share that kind of information which could give us ideas on how to replace it without another Aurine.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

@"Teratus.2859" said:Dunno why some of you guys want Primordus redeemed, if anything I want him to be exactly what we expect him to be.. a being of pure destruction and evil.We already had this redemption not it's fault thing with Kralkatorrik, no need to do that again specially with Primordus.

We've already got Jormag playing the "im not bad really" card while clearly being a bad dragon.For Primordus I want to be dealing with essentially a pure evil, living nuclear bomb who's only agenda is to watch the world burn.That to me makes him far, far more dangerous than any other enemy we've had in Gw2, including the other Elder Dragons and I want to see that represented in the game with us feeling almost completely useless and outclassed compared to him.We came close to something like that with Kralkatorrik but in the end it was just setback after setback.

With Primordus they need to go all the way.. like Smaug in the hobbit when he just flies off and destroys lake town while the heros can do nothing but watch the carnage completely helpless to do anything.. I hope we get something like that with Primordus where we see the cost of our failure through the carnage and destruction he wages on the world and the regret that we once spared his life really kicks us in the gut.I want Dragon's Watch to be brought to the absolute brink of giving up and accepting the end of the world due to witnessing the sheer power of Primordus.

Really only one person brought up "Redeeming" Primordus in this thread, and rather randomly at that. I don't think its something anyone else expects from what is quite literally the embodiment of destruction. Even if that somehow ended up being the case I can't imagine the current iteration of Arenanet being able to write that in a way that was believable.

[EdwinLi.1284]

@"Teratus.2859" said:Dunno why some of you guys want Primordus redeemed, if anything I want him to be exactly what we expect him to be.. a being of pure destruction and evil.We already had this redemption not it's fault thing with Kralkatorrik, no need to do that again specially with Primordus.

We've already got Jormag playing the "im not bad really" card while clearly being a bad dragon.For Primordus I want to be dealing with essentially a pure evil, living nuclear bomb who's only agenda is to watch the world burn.That to me makes him far, far more dangerous than any other enemy we've had in Gw2, including the other Elder Dragons and I want to see that represented in the game with us feeling almost completely useless and outclassed compared to him.We came close to something like that with Kralkatorrik but in the end it was just setback after setback.

With Primordus they need to go all the way.. like Smaug in the hobbit when he just flies off and destroys lake town while the heros can do nothing but watch the carnage completely helpless to do anything.. I hope we get something like that with Primordus where we see the cost of our failure through the carnage and destruction he wages on the world and the regret that we once spared his life really kicks us in the gut.I want Dragon's Watch to be brought to the absolute brink of giving up and accepting the end of the world due to witnessing the sheer power of Primordus.

I never said anything about redeeming Primordus. I am talking about how little we understand Primordus' mindset beyond just actions of destroying lands to a point only rocks, lava, and magma remains.

He is the only Elder Dragon we currently encountered that has little insight into his own mind and thinking but we know for certain he does have a mind to act out his actions. Primordus is for certain not doing this out of desire for destruction alone because if so then he will not seek to create a world where all life are basically Destroyers and filled with lava.

There are certainly many speculations about why Primordus maybe doing this such as he can't survive outside of lava and magma so a world filled with Magma and lava is probably the only world he can be free from his prison of being stuck underground.

Understanding what Primordus is thinking is the last piece we need to understand his reasoning for why he seeks to recreate the world as a lava filled world.