I don't like Grindy Mastery points

[Firebeard.1746]

I'm not saying there should be no grinds in this game, MMOs need them on some level in order to survive, but I don't think they're appropriate as Mastery points, I feel like it discourages more casual players from getting them and enjoying them in other settings. IB has had quite few: the storms winter Mastery point, the North meta mastery point and then the glory to the legions MPs. I consider the crafting collection MPs also grindy because they're basically gold grind sinks. I felt like most of the Maguuma, PoF (not including grindy ones like war eternal) and core tyria MPs were more appropriate because you could take them at your own pace and it felt like most of them I could just focus on and earn, then enjoy in game as I did other stuff. I know when I talked to one of my super casual friends in real life when I mention the grindy ones he just shudders. They're a combination of end game progression but also experience and tying them to grinds specifically locks people who don't play this game in a grindy fashion out.

On an only tangentially related note, I want to say I wish the devs would stop making most game modes super beneficial for grinding them and them only. Some good examples are WvW Pip boxes, raids (because of the collections needed to craft stuff, sometimes it's multi-layer making you go back), PVP pip boxes, fractals etc. This game has a very broad number of game modes and by tying the best rewards to players just focusing on one I feel burns people out. I feel like there should be rewards tied to jack of all trades playstyles as opposed to just doing 1 thing until your eyes bleed. I don't really feel like specialized gameplay is showing this game's true strength: the breadth of content it's developed over the years. I'm not saying take away the rewards for being committed to a game mode, I'm just saying that I feel most players would enjoy playing a bunch of different game modes as their end game progression model instead of pigeonholing/specializing. I have the most fun in this game when i'm not chasing a particular carrot on a stick from one of the game modes and i feel like the breadth of content - all the different PVP modes, all the different metas and all the different PVE modes (DRMs, Dungeons, Fractals, Strikes, Raids) leave a lot of room for switching it up and not being bored, but for some reason, the devs love to pigeonhole us into FotM game modes forever.

[Sobx.1758]

There's more MP in the game than you need to unlock masteries. I don't like MP behind weapon collection gold sinks, so I don't do them. At the same time I don't have a problem with getting all MP I ever needed and I fail to see why they shouldn't be in the game when they're optional. I also think you're misrepresenting (or maybe misremembering?) core mastery point achievementes if you try to say they were just gained without focusing on them.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I have 8 extra Icebrood Saga Mastery Points, and I surely have not done the metas more than, at most, 4 or 5 times, if that.
Often, the Mastery Points are given on a lower tier than max.
Glory to the Legions only took a few days.
You may need to peruse the requirements for Mastery Points in the Hero Panel.

[Vayne.8563]

As others have said, there are always extra mastery points more than you need. It's okay if some of them are grindy,, particularly if they're encouraging someone to actually do the meta and get used to it. Otherwise a lot of people might do the meta once and never go b;ack.

Take a meta like Drakkar. The first time you do it it's all over the place. You don't necessarily know what's going on. Same with Drizzlewood. Unless you do them multiple times you probabliy won't learn them. And a lot of people won't give something like that a chance. Then they learn it and think, this is okay or even this is fun. But they won't if that mastery doesn't encourage them to do it.

Right now, after getting every core tyria mastery trained I have 30 extra points. I have 26 extra HoT points (and I don't have them all), and I have 17 extra path of fire points. I'm sitting on 13 extra Icebrood Saga points.

Mastery points are an opportunity to encourage people to voluntarily give new content a chance. I think they're fine the way they are.

[Firebeard.1746]

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:I have 8 extra Icebrood Saga Mastery Points, and I surely have not done the metas more than, at most, 4 or 5 times, if that.

Often, the Mastery Points are given on a lower tier than max.

Glory to the Legions only took a few days.

You may need to peruse the requirements for Mastery Points in the Hero Panel.

Of how much /played time? I do DW off and on and still dont' have it. Yes there's more than you need, but you say you have extras when you've done a ton of the grindy ones. The glory to the legions are 6 total I believe. And to those of you saying "they're not that bad" do you or do you not agree with me that the grindy ones suck? What we tolerate now will be a portent of what they're okay with later and I believe there's been far more grindy MPs this saga than ever before.

[Firebeard.1746]

~~And to those of you saying "they're not that bad" do you or do you not agree with me that the grindy ones suck? What we tolerate now will be a portent of what they're okay with later and I believe there's been far more grindy MPs this saga than ever before. ~~

[BlueJin.4127]

IBS masteries definitely seem more grindy than in the past, like the 6 Glory of the Legion masteries. As somebody who doesn't enjoy mindless zergs, I didn't particularly enjoy those 6 masteries, either. But it's good that the game has a variety of different types of masteries to cater to different types of players. Some are short, others are long. Some are easy, others are hard. Some will be fun for me, others will be fun for others. And as stated, there are more masteries than is needed. Ultimately, having a good variety and letting players choose how they want to approach is one of the strengths of this game, and I agree that we could use more of it. I love being given choices in how to get something, rather than being forced down one path that I may not enjoy (looking at Gift of Exploration, Gift of Battle, Gift of Aurene, etc.).

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Except on release days, I never play more than an hour to an hour and a half per day. Often, it's around 15 minutes; just enough time to do the Daily.

[Cyninja.2954]

The Glory of the Legion Masteries, because they got mentioned, require 0 involvement with the map besides going there daily and donating some resources. It might take a month, but you will get the achievement done that way. Anything beyond that to speed up the process is voluntary and will significantly speed up the process.

Meanwhile the total mastery points available have yet again increased this episode. The total mastery points required to unlock the 3 tier of Dragon Slayer costs 2 points, meanwhile a total of 6 new mastery points were made available (4 for simply channeling the mastery point in a DRM missions, 2 behind achievements).

This makes the sum total of available currently spare mastery points increase to 16. The total amount of visible but not accessible mastery points required to complete the Dragon Slayer mastery line is 15 now, which for the first time makes players be able to achieve more mastery points than required for finishing all masteries.

Given each and every episode so far has introduced more mastery points than were required, and we are still off some way from the end of this Saga/season, I'm not seeing the issue.

[Sobx.1758]

@Firebeard.1746 said:

@"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:I have 8 extra Icebrood Saga Mastery Points, and I surely have not done the metas more than, at most, 4 or 5 times, if that.

Often, the Mastery Points are given on a lower tier than max.

Glory to the Legions only took a few days.

You may need to peruse the requirements for Mastery Points in the Hero Panel.

And to those of you saying "they're not that bad" do you or do you not agree with me that the grindy ones suck? What we tolerate now will be a portent of what they're okay with later and I believe there's been far more grindy MPs this saga than ever before.

Whether you like them or not is irrelevant, because they're not obligatory as already explained before. There's no reason to pretend they're in any way problematic because you can just skip them.

[Gorani.7205]

After being stuck in IBS when I could not do the Raven door masteries, I have been very cautiously spending mastery points on the "Essence" lines. I think that too many MPs have been put behind doing a meta over and over again (which isn't that easy in Drizzlewood, e.g. because it takes a long time and you have to get some "sweet spots" to get in (which is not easy with limited game time). I also loath the MPs attached to collections, which are a massive time and money sink too.I have not finished the essence lines, withholding points for the next chapters and the Dragon Slayer line, because I don't trust Anet to put enough MPs in the game's chapters, so I can progress and keep up with necessary (for gameplay reasons) investments.

I never had problems in HoT and PoF (the later which I have not played extensively compared to older parts of the game). I even could unlock the Skimmer diving without having to do more mastery points. The "blue" mastery point line id definitely different to the older ones.

[Cyninja.2954]

@"Gorani.7205" said:I never had problems in HoT and PoF (the later which I have not played extensively compared to older parts of the game). I even could unlock the Skimmer diving without having to do more mastery points. The "blue" mastery point line id definitely different to the older ones.

You mean the mastery points which were all dumped at once with expansion release as part of a complete package? I wonder why that might be different compared to an ongoing season which deploys content in steps....

Have you considered the different breaks points with each episode release and how it has become progressively easier to leave out points? Let me answer that for you: no.

As detailed earlier by me, we have literally just broken the total required mastery point barrier with this release. Every mastery point added with future content updates is now optional and adds to flexibility and choice as to which mastery points one can go for.

[notebene.3190]

I hope it ends up being the case, that there are enough mastery points in Icebrood Saga, to get everything without having to do any of the "kill the monster without breathing while hopping up and down on one leg in under 3 minutes in a pre-formed group of 5 without being kicked because your DPS is less than the (r+m)/2 principle". I won't be participating in those. I don't mind the grindy things, and I don't mind things that require doing big metas with other people using the original GW2 method of 'organically grouping without really grouping' method, or even the public (uh, the world escapes me, starts with a 'D' I think? the new things we do? getting older, lose words all the time, you'll see :tongue: ).

[Gorani.7205]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"Gorani.7205" said:I never had problems in HoT and PoF (the later which I have not played extensively compared to older parts of the game). I even could unlock the Skimmer diving without having to do more mastery points. The "blue" mastery point line id definitely different to the older ones.

You mean the mastery points which were all dumped at once with expansion release as part of a complete package? I wonder why that might be different compared to an ongoing season which deploys content in steps....

Have you considered the different breaks points with each episode release and how it has become progressively easier to leave out points? Let me answer that for you: no.

As detailed earlier by me, we have literally just broken the total required mastery point barrier with this release. Every mastery point added with future content updates is now optional and adds to flexibility and choice as to which mastery points one can go for.

You have a point there, but e.g. with the exception of doing Tarir over and over again, I don't think that HoT achievements / mastery points were tied to something very repetitive (like do Verdant brink meta 50 times). I also did not have to do a layered collection to get mastery points (just imagine the Orders ascended backpacks or machined weapons).

[Cuks.8241]

In general the achievements in IBS are often grindy and unimaginative, not only masteries. Yesterday I was checking what I need to do to finish the Shadows in the ice meta and you need to finish all the open-world events 20 times. How the kitten is that called an achievement?Previous collections, achievements usually encompassed finishing event once with some special conditions. Or visiting some older events for some variety. Not doing the forester event 20 times where the event itself is already boring.I haven't finished one IBS meta-achievement while I have most of the older ones done. Looking at the stuff that I would need to do I won't finish it ever with maybe exception Visions of the past.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Gorani.7205 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gorani.7205 said:I never had problems in HoT and PoF (the later which I have not played extensively compared to older parts of the game). I even could unlock the Skimmer diving without having to do more mastery points. The "blue" mastery point line id definitely different to the older ones.

You mean the mastery points which were all dumped at once with expansion release as part of a complete package? I wonder why that might be different compared to an ongoing season which deploys content in steps....

Have you considered the different breaks points with each episode release and how it has become progressively easier to leave out points? Let me answer that for you: no.

As detailed earlier by me, we have literally just broken the total required mastery point barrier with this release. Every mastery point added with future content updates is now optional and adds to flexibility and choice as to which mastery points one can go for.

You have a point there, but e.g. with the exception of doing Tarir over and over again, I don't think that HoT achievements / mastery points were tied to something very repetitive (like do Verdant brink meta 50 times). I also did not have to do a layered collection to get mastery points (just imagine the Orders ascended backpacks or machined weapons).

and you have all unlocked? All the gold rewards? Those certainly can be grindy, especially the harder ones.

The reason you don't perceive the the HoT and PoF masteries as grindy is because you likely skipped the grindy or difficult ones due to spare amount of mastery points. As mentioned, those are increasing with the progress of this season/saga. It also means that chances are high that, given enough spare points, that same experience will be true for the saga.

The main difference is in perception while the saga releases. So all I can offer myself is comfort in a sense that there is no reason to panic given the release approach so far.