Does anyone here want a Healer/ Support Thief?

[Tridentuk.1625]

I would prefer that thief were able to support in a way that makes sense for the vibe of the class.

One thing that comes to mind from my DOTA days is when I used to play Bounty Hunter support- you could put a track on someone which meant that you could see them for a period in the fog of war, and killing that target could get your teammates extra gold. So in GW2 you could add a skill that marks a target, prevents them stealthing (or at least you can see the mark), shows them on the map wherever they go, and grants buffs to your allies on kill.That would revolutionise thief's role in WvW and PvP, and in PvE it could give you support potential in an interesting way.

[Downstate.4697]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAwiVlFwCZbMLmJOUPnPdA-z5AfGZqA6WCo0B

Could have potential

[Curennos.9307]

Heck yes.

Though I think trying to work support into stealth in any fashion would have to be done very, very carefully - they'd probably have to base it around...iunno, blinds or something. I'd like something along the lines of...all your weapon skills can now be used on anyone, and allies get a support version. Skills that give you an evade or blind now pulse/apply aegis to allies. Damaging attacks now heal, etcetc. Iunno, it'd be super fun to bounce around a fight healing allies with d/p and throwing out blinds on enemies.

Anet would have to be really careful tho to avoid creating an OP bunker spec. But I can dream.

[cyberzombie.7348]

I'd much rather have pre-existing support traits/utilities to get buffed before considering a whole new e-spec.

[jpsssss.7530]

I'd love one, but it'd have to be an overloaded traitline (traits are too strong compared to other classes) to make up for the complete lack of supporting ability in core thief.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

I as well would like the option of doing more than just producing white numbers with the class.

[Trianox.3486]

There are quite a few support mechanisms already, but are a bit awkward to use efficiently or consistently.

That being said, I could easily see Stealth being turned into something such as:whenever you would grant stealth instead gain "Shadow veil/cloak" for the same duration, which does not make you invisible but rather give defensive boons and buffs (Aegis on application, protection with traits for condition damage reduction too, temporary stats boost on application, and damage reduction, maybe cannot be Crit? etc.), and share a portion of your own stealth bonuses to allies you stealth (such as cure, heal, movement speed, etc. from all our existing traits).

We already have great defensive and support capacity through stealth, it could be slightly enhance through the use of such mechanism.

You could trait more support, or more selfish or more offensive maybe. Allowing not to be Pidgeon holed into a single role either....

There could be glyph based on whether you wear or not the shadow cloak, some more offensive, some more defensive and supportive.

[Crab Fear.1624]

The need to rework traitlines that support the thief to also affect allies or IT WILL NOT WORK.

Thief is a selfish class by design, they have a few shareables, but they ain't feeding the party.

Up to this point, nothing remotely resembles a support, and the shadow medics you see are absolutely pathetic.

Being screen clutter in wvw blob does not count as "successful".

[Kodama.6453]

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:The need to rework traitlines that support the thief to also affect allies or IT WILL NOT WORK.

Thief is a selfish class by design, they have a few shareables, but they ain't feeding the party.

Up to this point, nothing remotely resembles a support, and the shadow medics you see are absolutely pathetic.

Being screen clutter in wvw blob does not count as "successful".

I don't think that is necessarily true. When it comes to traits, thief seems kinda as much selfish as ranger and they got a support elite spec with druid that largely enhanced their supportive features.

Thief already has 2 supportive trait lines to pair such an elite spec with: trickery and shadow arts.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@cyberzombie.7348 said:I'd much rather have pre-existing support traits/utilities to get buffed before considering a whole new e-spec.

This 100%, full support spec doesn't suit thief's theme at all. If they did have it support It have to be in a way that fit the classes playstyles and theme, good luck with that as guaranteed if it was effective players would rally to get it nerfed to the point its unviable OR it would be unviable from the get go and never used. It be waste of a spec.

[Downstate.4697]

Support could work just not as the traditional heal bots you see. It would probably be a boon bot with quick access to might and fury. Giving them access to low CD group stability would really shake up the wvw meta.

Another unique thing they could do is provide access to dark aura, which is an underused mechanic. They could have a trait that would also reduce condition duration by 20% with dark auras or something. a Main-hand warhorn that maybe pulses a dark field on the 3 skill and then a secondary attack that changes into a whirl, blast or leap finisher depending on the offhand. The 2 skill could be an aoe that damages enemies and applies dark aura to allies.

[InsaneQR.7412]

I kinda do tbh.

I wish they would replace stealth with something like shadow armor that increased your defenses drastically. And is not removed on attacks but keeps you visible (tradeoff). This buff can easily be shared and can be enhanced to buff allies more, grant resistance, stab, prot whatver.

As a second weapon i wish for offhand sword. That would give so many more skills to choose form with all the dualwield skills. Especially if they add skills taht canon into eachother.

Further i would like an ambush like skill on the dualwield skills and the one form the auto attack gets removed.

This could bring so many more options.One trait row could focus on power damage, one on condition damage and one on support while the columns are centered arround dualwield skills, ambushes and shadow armor respectively.

[Trianox.3486]

@"InsaneQR.7412" said:I kinda do tbh.

I wish they would replace stealth with something like shadow armor that increased your defenses drastically. And is not removed on attacks but keeps you visible (tradeoff). This buff can easily be shared and can be enhanced to buff allies more, grant resistance, stab, prot whatver.

As a second weapon i wish for offhand sword. That would give so many more skills to choose form with all the dualwield skills. Especially if they add skills taht canon into eachother.

Further i would like an ambush like skill on the dualwield skills and the one form the auto attack gets removed.

This could bring so many more options.One trait row could focus on power damage, one on condition damage and one on support while the columns are centered arround dualwield skills, ambushes and shadow armor respectively.

Yeah, that basically what I described 6 posts above. :-D

We get a lot of perks while in stealth, condi removal, health per second, speed, etc., We can easily think of one of the 3 sub trait lines to stack further onto that with some stats and make all or most of these effect shareable.And as for stealth attacks, they could become assassination or whatever, maybe even keep all their bonuses, but instead be on a 5-6 internal cooldown without breaking the shadow armor, and when shadow armor ends, you get the "reveal" bonuses of some of our traits? Or something along these lines.

When Crab Fear says that so far nothing remotely ressemble support, I both agree and disagree. Very little now makes for a consistent well built support build, but a lot of traits baked into stealth are defensive by nature and only lack a way to share their effects.

We could even think of Steal as a "Essence bind" or whatever fancy name allowing us to port to allies, and transfuse some of our Health... And making "steal effect shareable in a small radius" (so that Mugs hits in a 120-240 radius, and provide health to self and other), so that stealth (now shadow cloak/armor/veil) is granted in a small radius, with maybe a 240 radius dark field?

The new "stolen skills" would instead reduce stealth-attack cooldown on hit, and provide a boon/support effect + a offensive effect bases on the % health of your target. Traits could boost either the offensive or defensive effect, reduce cooldown, or whatever. :-)

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Trianox.3486 well the sneak attack could come back as soon as you are no longer revealed. And revealed would be procced as normal when you activate your sneak attack but it wont end the effect of the shadow armor. This would still provide counterplay with reveal skills but it wont strip the thief form all its defenses.

[Kodama.6453]

@"Trianox.3486" said:

Yeah, that basically what I described 6 posts above. :-D

We get a lot of perks while in stealth, condi removal, health per second, speed, etc., We can easily think of one of the 3 sub trait lines to stack further onto that with some stats and make all or most of these effect shareable.And as for stealth attacks, they could become assassination or whatever, maybe even keep all their bonuses, but instead be on a 5-6 internal cooldown without breaking the shadow armor, and when shadow armor ends, you get the "reveal" bonuses of some of our traits? Or something along these lines.

When Crab Fear says that so far nothing remotely ressemble support, I both agree and disagree. Very little now makes for a consistent well built support build, but a lot of traits baked into stealth are defensive by nature and only lack a way to share their effects.

We could even think of Steal as a "Essence bind" or whatever fancy name allowing us to port to allies, and transfuse some of our Health... And making "steal effect shareable in a small radius" (so that Mugs hits in a 120-240 radius, and provide health to self and other), so that stealth (now shadow cloak/armor/veil) is granted in a small radius, with maybe a 240 radius dark field?

The new "stolen skills" would instead reduce stealth-attack cooldown on hit, and provide a boon/support effect + a offensive effect bases on the % health of your target. Traits could boost either the offensive or defensive effect, reduce cooldown, or whatever. :-)

Instead of stealth, I would personally center a support thief on the shadowstep mechanic.

There is already a trait in core thief which heals allies around when performing a shadowstep, an elite spec could enhance this mechanic even further with supportive features in my opinion.

Also deadeye already focused on the stealth mechanic for thieves, while daredevil focused on evades/dodges.The third elite spec focusing on another thief mechanic than these 2 with shadowsteps sounds like a good idea for me.

[Trianox.3486]

@"Kodama.6453" said:

Instead of stealth, I would personally center a support thief on the shadowstep mechanic.

There is already a trait in core thief which heals allies around when performing a shadowstep, an elite spec could enhance this mechanic even further with supportive features in my opinion.

Also deadeye already focused on the stealth mechanic for thieves, while daredevil focused on evades/dodges.The third elite spec focusing on another thief mechanic than these 2 with shadowsteps sounds like a good idea for me.

100% see what you mean! (Altho that would not be "real" stealth given you'd remain visible, and I think that would totally change the playstyle)

I'd too love a model where we can have an "arcanestep" and switched (through something similar to how we select Revenant legends), and only pick 2 (out of maybe 5-6?) such as firestep, lightningstep, waterstep, etc. spawning a 240 radius combo fields, which could be enhance (radius size, or double effect of combo fields) with glyph (or else) utilities doing multiple blasts, projectile finisher 100%, etc.We could then boost the landing effect, and have steal function as a port-in-out to ally (with ammo) on a shorter range than steal, etc.

And what ever skill using "shadowstep" could be replaced by the active "ArcaneStep"

[Grand Marshal.4098]

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAwiVlFwCZbMLmJOUPnPdA-z5AfGZqA6WCo0B

Could have potential

Kinda late of a reply, but I got a question. Can Skelk venom be shared to allies? I Mena it would seem like a good option in this case if it can.

Also, random idea but maybe they should introduce more lifesteal abilities for their maybe? Like Renegade's Elite. A shared life steal? Pulsing around the thief?

[Astyrah.4015]

@"Yasai.3549" said:No, only for one reason : A profession doesn't have to do it all.

The whole Profession - traits - skills system we have in place right now is kinda the entire base problem with our PvE Raid and Fractal Meta tbh.I'm quite happy that Gw2 allows all Profession to play multiple roles, but when a single Profession, or a couple of Professions start "doing it all", it will start strangulating and choking out build diversity.

Guardian is a good example of this : They can do good DPS, they can Support, and they are meta picks which are highly sought after.Mesmer is another one, having dominated the PvE scene for almost the entirety of Gw2's lifespan, and even with the heavy handed nerfs to SoI which clipped their wings a little, they are still a popular choice, and in some cases, unrivalled picks for Raids.

With that in mind, I don't feel like people should start wanting or asking for their favourite Profession to start being able to "do it all" because it will end up with one of two results :

1. It turns out pretty weak, and people wonder why the heck was a DPS focused Profession given a Support Espec for no reason
2. It turns out pretty busted, everyone plays a single Profession, and then build diversity is just thrown out the window again.

Let Thief just be Thief, let them deal damage, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a Profession just doing damage.No one has to multi-role in this game, and this game doesn't even have a set-in-stone role system in the first place.

this. i'd rather thief just do damage, really good damage that it's top dps choice in pve gamemodes.. reason being, thief is a selfish class and doesn't really bring anything unique (anything the thief can share or do, other specs or classes can do/provide way way better) to the party other than it's own damage. so it has to be really good at the only thing it can really do.

if it in fact does get some supportive (or support+dps) elite spec i just hope it'd be something that makes it a viable alternative to the current meta -- all for more build diversity.

[Kodama.6453]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAwiVlFwCZbMLmJOUPnPdA-z5AfGZqA6WCo0B

Could have potential

Kinda late of a reply, but I got a question. Can Skelk venom be shared to allies? I Mena it would seem like a good option in this case if it can.

Also, random idea but maybe they should introduce more lifesteal abilities for their maybe? Like Renegade's Elite. A shared life steal? Pulsing around the thief?

Yes, Skelk Venom is shared with allies. Just the on-hit healing, of course, not the initial healing.Really seems like a good alternative for a supportive thief.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAwiVlFwCZbMLmJOUPnPdA-z5AfGZqA6WCo0B

Could have potential

Kinda late of a reply, but I got a question. Can Skelk venom be shared to allies? I Mena it would seem like a good option in this case if it can.

Also, random idea but maybe they should introduce more lifesteal abilities for their maybe? Like Renegade's Elite. A shared life steal? Pulsing around the thief?

Yes, Skelk Venom is shared with allies. Just the on-hit healing, of course, not the initial healing.Really seems like a good alternative for a supportive thief.

That's what I imagined. Also thinking if Daredevil would be better as a healer, with bounding dodger and double use on stolen skills with staff/sb. I can see a lot of aoe healing potential with the leaps and blasts.

[Kodama.6453]

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAwiVlFwCZbMLmJOUPnPdA-z5AfGZqA6WCo0B

Could have potential

Kinda late of a reply, but I got a question. Can Skelk venom be shared to allies? I Mena it would seem like a good option in this case if it can.

Also, random idea but maybe they should introduce more lifesteal abilities for their maybe? Like Renegade's Elite. A shared life steal? Pulsing around the thief?

Yes, Skelk Venom is shared with allies. Just the on-hit healing, of course, not the initial healing.Really seems like a good alternative for a supportive thief.

That's what I imagined. Also thinking if Daredevil would be better as a healer, with bounding dodger and double use on stolen skills with staff/sb. I can see a lot of aoe healing potential with the leaps and blasts.

The problem with that is that thief lacks on demand water combo fields for these blast finishers.Also leap combo finishers on water fields don't really help you healing your team, since a leap finisher is just healing the guy who performs it.

If you are really aiming for a healer thief, then the best bet is probably to use a sword in your mainhand together with the trait that heals allies around whenever you perform a shadowstep.Sword mainhand provides a doubled shadowstep on 2 for 5 initiative, which is most likely the most spammable shadowstep you can get to keep healing your allies.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

as a new elite specialization yes, but thief has a low healing coefficient so it wont work as well. Nurse Ninja got nerfed years ago, the one with the Mercy runes, so its not good anymore along with the shadow arts changes

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAwiVlFwCZbMLmJOUPnPdA-z5AfGZqA6WCo0B

Could have potential

d/d ? you know Shadowshot is a shadowstep.... d/p

[slave to the grind.5028]

I would dig a support thief. It was something that was missed with PoF. With all the djinn-related quests, and even a magic lamp focus, I really wanted to play an Alladin type thief who gets his power from djinni.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

I don't think a support thief would work without some major trait reworks of the core lines. All professions that currently have a successful support spec also have two core trait lines that go well with it. The only healer traits I could find on Thief are Shadow Savior and the rez trait. While thief does have plenty traits providing healing, all of them are selfish.