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I think META on FOR/TP CM DRMs is ranged DPS


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As a mirage mesmer, For kicks and giggles I decided to equip my GS (diviner's -> I don't keep pure DPS one because it's not really meta for the content I do with my GS build) on my sword zerker's set and in a random group we cleared TP DRM with 45 seconds to spare. We barely missed the timer on FOR (30s) BUT I died once and my team was constantly dying. I feel like the bosses on these DRMs heavily punish melee builds and almost all SC and DPS builds are melee heavy. Granted my randoms in the TP one knew mechanics, so we didn't die during spears and adds were light. But I think more people need to be running as close to pure ranged DPS as possible, if you have a ranged support build, I guess that works if you have pure DPS you can amplify on your team to a point where it's better with you + them as support instead of DPS.

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It's not. Melee is still the higher DPS option and most groups seem to need as much DPS as they can get. I also feel that everyone should just go full DPS because most of the people I see that do go DPS are doing less than 10K which won't be enough if there are support players. I see too many people trying to get a balanced party but that only works if your DPS can actually DPS.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:It's not. Melee is still the higher DPS option and most groups seem to need as much DPS as they can get. I also feel that everyone should just go full DPS because most of the people I see that do go DPS are doing less than 10K which won't be enough if there are support players. I see too many people trying to get a balanced party but that only works if your DPS can actually DPS.

In my experience it may be meta for the same reason you say having everyone DPS is meta, most people struggle with the intensity of mechanics in melee. I think it's pretty telling the group that died more was also the one we barely failed on.

I'm not saying you're wrong, you're probably absolutely right that well-played melee is better.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:It's not. Melee is still the higher DPS option and most groups seem to need as much DPS as they can get. I also feel that everyone should just go full DPS because most of the people I see that do go DPS are doing less than 10K which won't be enough if there are support players. I see too many people trying to get a balanced party but that only works if your DPS can actually DPS.

In my experience it may be meta for the same reason you say having everyone DPS is meta, most people struggle with the intensity of mechanics in melee. I think it's pretty telling the group that died more was also the one we barely failed on.

I'm not saying you're wrong, you're probably absolutely right that well-played melee is better.

The issue is that ranged attacks are lower DPS and it’s low DPS that is causing people to fail. Having players all go range is just setting them up to fail even more.

There’s really no reason to fail mechanics. The Thunderhead boss is pretty much the matriarch wyvern. The FoR boss players just have to get out away from the boss when it does the telegraph for the one attack. It’s not like it’s a raid which is throwing many mechanics at you at once.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:It's not. Melee is still the higher DPS option and most groups seem to need as much DPS as they can get. I also feel that everyone should just go full DPS because most of the people I see that do go DPS are doing less than 10K which won't be enough if there are support players. I see too many people trying to get a balanced party but that only works if your DPS can actually DPS.

In my experience it may be meta for the same reason you say having everyone DPS is meta, most people struggle with the intensity of mechanics in melee. I think it's pretty telling the group that died more was also the one we barely failed on.

I'm not saying you're wrong, you're probably absolutely right that well-played melee is better.

The issue is that ranged attacks are lower DPS and it’s low DPS that is causing people to fail. Having players all go range is just setting them up to fail even more.

There’s really no reason to fail mechanics. The Thunderhead boss is pretty much the matriarch wyvern. The FoR boss players just have to get out away from the boss when it does the telegraph for the one attack. It’s not like it’s a raid which is throwing many mechanics at you at once.

I feel like there's been times I've been out of the AOE but still got burn pulsed on me if I stood too close, there's also been a few other times where something caught me off guard, not sure what, but whatever. Dead people don't do damage. i don't think I'm wrong in my assesment that some people are so bad at avoiding damage that they'd be better off ranged. To each their own. In fact I'm fairly certain we wouldn't have failed FoR if some of my team mates were.

EDIT: It's also not truthful that there's no overlapping mechanics in FoR, he does spawn the flame wave and does his attack separately from it. I believe there's another AOE as well that can happen simultaneously (circles). In fact sometimes there's so many it piles up something nasty.

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@Nephalem.8921 said:Meta is 4cfb + ren. You dont need healing when you can aegis everything. Ren can provide superspeed for the escort aswell.

So much balance, that class diversity right there......

To be brutally clear, it's not that I want guardians nerfed, I just think too many mechanics are hard countered by them. I feel like when such large disparities in class capability exist, it's a clear balance problem.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:Meta is 4cfb + ren. You dont need healing when you can aegis everything. Ren can provide superspeed for the escort aswell.

So much balance, that class diversity right there......

To be brutally clear, it's not that I want guardians nerfed, I just think too many mechanics are hard countered by them. I feel like when such large disparities in class capability exist, it's a clear balance problem.

First off, every class is very much capable of doing the CMs. Secondly, with all of the classes/builds in the game as well as the numerous encounters, it's unreasonable to assume that every class/build would be equally balanced for every encounter. I mean, in your OP you were claiming range to be meta. Would that be considered balanced? It's wrong to assume that things are not balanced just because something else is optimal.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:Meta is 4cfb + ren. You dont need healing when you can aegis everything. Ren can provide superspeed for the escort aswell.

So much balance, that class diversity right there......

To be brutally clear, it's not that I want guardians nerfed, I just think too many mechanics are hard countered by them. I feel like when such large disparities in class capability exist, it's a clear balance problem.

First off, every class is very much capable of doing the CMs. Secondly, with all of the classes/builds in the game as well as the numerous encounters, it's unreasonable to assume that every class/build would be equally balanced for every encounter. I mean, in your OP you were claiming range to be meta. Would that be considered balanced? It's wrong to assume that things are not balanced just because something else is optimal.

What meta doesn't feature guard? I'm fine with something being meta in certain encounters, for example I'm sure melee is meta in the original CMs for DRMs, it's just guard is heavily features in almost any meta. I can't think of an encounter where you wouldn't want a guard, but you can't say the same thing for every class. That, to me, is a heavy indicator that professions are not well balanced.

Also it's insane as far as balance is concerned to have a meta be stacking multiple classes of the same type when the total party size isn't even big enough to have 1 of every class.

Many classes have a ranged option. Almost anyone playing an RPG likes to main and/or play a given class, and as far as that's concerned i feel like any individual profession should be very competitive against any other in a given encounter (perhaps they need to change build, but they should still bring something).

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:Meta is 4cfb + ren. You dont need healing when you can aegis everything. Ren can provide superspeed for the escort aswell.

So much balance, that class diversity right there......

To be brutally clear, it's not that I want guardians nerfed, I just think too many mechanics are hard countered by them. I feel like when such large disparities in class capability exist, it's a clear balance problem.

First off, every class is very much capable of doing the CMs. Secondly, with all of the classes/builds in the game as well as the numerous encounters, it's unreasonable to assume that every class/build would be equally balanced for every encounter. I mean, in your OP you were claiming range to be meta. Would that be considered balanced? It's wrong to assume that things are not balanced just because something else is optimal.

What meta doesn't feature guard? I'm fine with something being meta in certain encounters, for example I'm sure melee is meta in the original CMs for DRMs, it's just guard is heavily features in almost any meta. I can't think of an encounter where you wouldn't want a guard, but you can't say the same thing for every class. That, to me, is a heavy indicator that professions are not well balanced.

Then it's a matter of preference regarding what's unbalanced. You find ranged being preferred over melee perfectly okay but dislike how certain classes may be more preferred in optimal situations. In both situations a group of players are being preferred but in only one of them you are negatively affected. Meta, or optimal, comps are not the only way that something can be done. This has been repeated over and over since the game launched. You can easily complete every DRM CM with all DPS players assuming that they can do actual DPS and not completely fail mechanics. Every class is capable of doing enough DPS.

Also it's insane as far as balance is concerned to have a meta be stacking multiple classes of the same type when the total party size isn't even big enough to have 1 of every class.

What should a party have one of every class? Why should an encounter be balanced around you needing one of every class?

Many classes have a ranged option. Almost anyone playing an RPG likes to main and/or play a given class, and as far as that's concerned i feel like any individual profession should be very competitive against any other in a given encounter (perhaps they need to change build, but they should still bring something).

Yes, all classes have a ranged option. I'm against it being meta because it's significantly lower DPS compared to melee and DPS is the reason that people are failing the timer CM. Before I gave up on doing it in groups, practically everyone I was in a group with was doing under 10K DPS. There's no way to complete the CMs with DPS that low.

Every class being competitive against every other class in any encounter is unrealistic. However, every class can still perform well at the CMs. They just need to work on their builds and most definitely their DPS. Just for clarification, when I say work on their DPS, I'm not saying get it to raid level.

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I think we need to establish a ground rule here ... . meta is not based on what someone 'experiences'. It's an estimation of what builds are best for an encounter based on empirical evidence and the encounter mechanics assuming the player is capable of handling the mechanics of the encounter and the rotation of the build.

It doesn't make sense to conclude what is meta based on what you see as successful or not.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Nephalem.8921 said:Meta is 4cfb + ren. You dont need healing when you can aegis everything. Ren can provide superspeed for the escort aswell.

So much balance, that class diversity right there......

To be brutally clear, it's not that I want guardians nerfed, I just think too many mechanics are hard countered by them. I feel like when such large disparities in class capability exist, it's a clear balance problem.

First off, every class is very much capable of doing the CMs. Secondly, with all of the classes/builds in the game as well as the numerous encounters, it's unreasonable to assume that every class/build would be equally balanced for every encounter. I mean, in your OP you were claiming range to be meta. Would that be considered balanced? It's wrong to assume that things are not balanced just because something else is optimal.

What meta doesn't feature guard? I'm fine with something being meta in certain encounters, for example I'm sure melee is meta in the original CMs for DRMs, it's just guard is heavily features in almost any meta. I can't think of an encounter where you wouldn't want a guard, but you can't say the same thing for every class. That, to me, is a heavy indicator that professions are not well balanced.

Then it's a matter of preference regarding what's unbalanced. You find ranged being preferred over melee perfectly okay but dislike how certain classes may be more preferred in
optimal
situations. In both situations a group of players are being preferred but in only one of them you are negatively affected. Meta, or optimal, comps are not the only way that something can be done. This has been repeated over and over since the game launched. You can easily complete every DRM CM with all DPS players assuming that they can do actual DPS and not completely fail mechanics. Every class is capable of doing enough DPS.

You've massively misinterpreted what I've said, not sure if a conversation is even valuable anymore. I gave an example where ranged isn't meta and clearly said I'm fine with metas changing between encounters, it's when something features over and over there's a problem. Also note, you're talking about playstyle metas, I'm talking about profession metas. Also note guardian isn't meta just because of DPS, it's the defensive capabilities that make it so preferred. It has those AND damage. PROFESSION balance is what I started talking about. If you keep going off about ranged, you're missing the point entirely.

Also it's insane as far as balance is concerned to have a meta be stacking multiple classes of the same type when the total party size isn't even big enough to have 1 of every class.

What should a party have one of every class? Why should an encounter be balanced around you needing one of every class?

Why have any more professions if one is god? I've never seen an MMO where the devs thought it was healthy to have 1 god class until now. The whole point on an RPG is to play a class you identify with, so being sub-par just because you want to have fun is bad. I thought that was just generally understood.

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@"Obtena.7952" said:I think we need to establish a ground rule here ... . meta is not based on what someone 'experiences'. It's an estimation of what builds are best for an encounter based on empirical evidence and the encounter mechanics assuming the player is capable of handling the mechanics of the encounter and the rotation of the build.

It doesn't make sense to conclude what is meta based on what you see as successful or not.

I somewhat agree. That makes sense. But also note if a player in a group is incapable of playing the "raw, highest DPS meta" that perhaps a different playstyle is their actual meta. An interesting case of this I can tell you about was arcane meta in WoW during BFA, equipoise was the go-to trait, yet, I created a high mana generation build that did better with arcane pummeling against most other mage players of the same or lower ilvl (I even beat some arcane mages with higher ilvl). I knew I wouldn't do well with that build because I suck at burst windows, so I built a build that was better for my playstyle and i ended up crushing players who were incapable of playing that "optimal" meta. I would still lose against a good player, but they were rare in my raid PuGs. I even topped the charts occaisionally. So there is a difference between an absolute meta and the meta for a given group. Which is my biggest issue with the GW2 community as a whole, I feel like players tend to get criticized for self honesty, It might also be a weakness of the game's design that does this. The skill gap between players is much higher on this MMO than any other and as I've mentioned in other threads, there's no ilvl climb that can compensate for bad skill.

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@Shadowmoon.7986 said:The meta is knowing how to use the dodge key.

Well if I'm to believe the randos in my PuGs, this boss is harder than a raid boss and/or fractal CM (at least the few who've commented), but sure let's just assume they're really bad players, totally constructive.

Though i would argue dodging is a terrible mechanic for a latency based always online game and boss mechanics. It basically means either the telegraphs are so long everyone is totally out of it, or it's so clutch any miss in latency and you're dead.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I think we need to establish a ground rule here ... . meta is not based on what someone 'experiences'. It's an estimation of what builds are best for an encounter based on empirical evidence and the encounter mechanics assuming the player is capable of handling the mechanics of the encounter and the rotation of the build.

It doesn't make sense to conclude what is meta based on what you see as successful or not.

I somewhat agree. That makes sense. But also note if a player in a group is incapable of playing the "raw, highest DPS meta" that perhaps a different playstyle is their actual meta.

Well, the meta doesn't change with player ... that's my point. Meta is independent of player ability. Again, it's what is best based on testing.

I mean, if a player can't exercise the meta and it's rotation, sure they should play something else ... but there is no meta 'for them' ... Meta means something very specific so there is no reason to argue it should be redefined to include player capability.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@"Nephalem.8921" said:Meta is 4cfb + ren. You dont need healing when you can aegis everything. Ren can provide superspeed for the escort aswell.

So much balance, that class diversity right there......

To be brutally clear, it's not that I want guardians nerfed, I just think too many mechanics are hard countered by them. I feel like when such large disparities in class capability exist, it's a clear balance problem.

First off, every class is very much capable of doing the CMs. Secondly, with all of the classes/builds in the game as well as the numerous encounters, it's unreasonable to assume that every class/build would be equally balanced for every encounter. I mean, in your OP you were claiming range to be meta. Would that be considered balanced? It's wrong to assume that things are not balanced just because something else is optimal.

What meta doesn't feature guard? I'm fine with something being meta in certain encounters, for example I'm sure melee is meta in the original CMs for DRMs, it's just guard is heavily features in almost any meta. I can't think of an encounter where you wouldn't want a guard, but you can't say the same thing for every class. That, to me, is a heavy indicator that professions are not well balanced.

Then it's a matter of preference regarding what's unbalanced. You find ranged being preferred over melee perfectly okay but dislike how certain classes may be more preferred in
optimal
situations. In both situations a group of players are being preferred but in only one of them you are negatively affected. Meta, or optimal, comps are not the only way that something can be done. This has been repeated over and over since the game launched. You can easily complete every DRM CM with all DPS players assuming that they can do actual DPS and not completely fail mechanics. Every class is capable of doing enough DPS.

You've massively misinterpreted what I've said, not sure if a conversation is even valuable anymore. I gave an example where ranged isn't meta and clearly said I'm fine with metas changing between encounters, it's when something features over and over there's a problem. Also note, you're talking about playstyle metas, I'm talking about profession metas. Also note guardian isn't meta just because of DPS, it's the defensive capabilities that make it so preferred. It has those AND damage. PROFESSION balance is what I started talking about. If you keep going off about ranged, you're missing the point entirely.

I'm not misinterpreting anything. I simply highlighted a contradictory/hypocritical part of your post where you were fine with ranged being meta over melee but took issue with a certain build being meta over others. You say your fine with metas changing between encounters for the 4 cfb + 1 ren isn't really meta anywhere else that I can think of. I question it being the meta here as well. As long as people don't fail mechanics, ANY DPS CLASS CAN SUCCEED COMFORTABLY DOING DRM CMS.

Defensive being aegis? Tempests have rebound and scourges have barrier. Both of those negate some or all damage.

Also it's insane as far as balance is concerned to have a meta be stacking multiple classes of the same type when the total party size isn't even big enough to have 1 of every class.

What should a party have one of every class? Why should an encounter be balanced around you needing one of every class?

Why have any more professions if one is god? I've never seen an MMO where the devs thought it was healthy to have 1 god class until now.

You're too hyper-focused on there being a balanced between optimal classes for every scenario which is incredibly unrealistic. As I've stated multiple times, any class is capable of doing any content in the game. This very much includes the CMs for DRMs.

The whole point on an RPG is to play a class you identify with, so being sub-par just because you want to have fun is bad. I thought that was just generally understood.

Players are subpar all the time so why does the profession that they play matter in regards to that? Your statement that "being sub-par just because you want to have fun is bad" can easily be applied against those who don't even try to be good in the game and simply want to have fun in their own way. So all of those who are doing poor DPS and refuse to perform the mechanics better, are bad according to your statement because they're choosing to be subpar in favor of having fun in their own way.

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

I'm not misinterpreting anything. I simply highlighted a contradictory/hypocritical part of your post where you were fine with ranged being meta over melee but took issue with a certain build being meta over others. You say your fine with metas changing between encounters for the 4 cfb + 1 ren isn't really meta anywhere else that I can think of. I question it being the meta here as well. As long as people don't fail mechanics, ANY DPS CLASS CAN SUCCEED COMFORTABLY DOING DRM CMS.

Its meta'ish in 100cm. 5 fb for phase 1 and 2 ren, 2fb, slb for phase 2. Nobody relogs for 2nd phase so you usually play with 4 or 3 fbs.Defensive being aegis? Tempests have rebound and scourges have barrier. Both of those negate some or all damage.Rebound has a massive cd and only works vs killing blow. Barrier doesnt work vs hard hitting pve champs. It doesnt negate the dmg. Scourge has also by far the lowest dps.

You're too hyper-focused on there being a balanced between optimal classes for every scenario which is incredibly unrealistic. As I've stated multiple times, any class is capable of doing any content in the game. This very much includes the CMs for DRMs.Some cant really pull their weight. There is a 30-40% gap between scourge and meta dps and mesmer is very bad in fractals.@Firebeard.1746 said:Well if I'm to believe the randos in my PuGs, this boss is harder than a raid boss and/or fractal CM (at least the few who've commented), but sure let's just assume they're really bad players, totally constructive.

Not really. A decent teamcomp facerolls through them. Doesnt even matter which one as long as boons are covered. 4fb + ren is just by far the easiest in my experience. Tome resets constantly and the aegis spam blocks so many attacks.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:The meta is knowing how to use the dodge key.

Well if I'm to believe the randos in my PuGs, this boss is harder than a raid boss and/or fractal CM (at least the few who've commented), but sure let's just assume they're really bad players, totally constructive.

Though i would argue dodging is a terrible mechanic for a latency based always online game and boss mechanics. It basically means either the telegraphs are so long everyone is totally out of it, or it's so clutch any miss in latency and you're dead.

The boss is just like tanking matriarch on q1. All moves can be side stepped except for the shockwave where you have to dodge into the wave. 3 of 4 boss this are cakewalk once you know the mechanics.

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@Nephalem.8921 said:

I'm not misinterpreting anything. I simply highlighted a contradictory/hypocritical part of your post where you were fine with ranged being meta over melee but took issue with a certain build being meta over others. You say your fine with metas changing between encounters for the
4 cfb + 1 ren
isn't really meta anywhere else that I can think of. I question it being the meta here as well. As long as people don't fail mechanics,
ANY DPS CLASS CAN SUCCEED COMFORTABLY DOING DRM CMS
.

Its meta'ish in 100cm. 5 fb for phase 1 and 2 ren, 2fb, slb for phase 2. Nobody relogs for 2nd phase so you usually play with 4 or 3 fbs.

Ah. I don't really do fractals anymore so I didn't know that was a thing for that one.

Defensive being aegis? Tempests have rebound and scourges have barrier. Both of those negate some or all damage.Rebound has a massive cd and only works vs killing blow. Barrier doesnt work vs hard hitting pve champs. It doesnt negate the dmg. Scourge has also by far the lowest dps.

I was just listing defensive capabilities that a couple other classes offer that's similar to aegis. Barrier has often been used to hard carry players more so than aegis. It works fairly well for the Snowden CM so long as you strip the boons off the boss.

You're too hyper-focused on there being a balanced between optimal classes for every scenario which is incredibly unrealistic. As I've stated multiple times, any class is capable of doing any content in the game. This very much includes the CMs for DRMs.Some cant really pull their weight. There is a 30-40% gap between scourge and meta dps and mesmer is very bad in fractals.

Are you speaking about DRMs or fractals in your post?

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@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Nephalem.8921" said:Meta is 4cfb + ren. You dont need healing when you can aegis everything. Ren can provide superspeed for the escort aswell.

So much balance, that class diversity right there......

To be brutally clear, it's not that I want guardians nerfed, I just think too many mechanics are hard countered by them. I feel like when such large disparities in class capability exist, it's a clear balance problem.

First off, every class is very much capable of doing the CMs. Secondly, with all of the classes/builds in the game as well as the numerous encounters, it's unreasonable to assume that every class/build would be equally balanced for every encounter. I mean, in your OP you were claiming range to be meta. Would that be considered balanced? It's wrong to assume that things are not balanced just because something else is optimal.

What meta doesn't feature guard? I'm fine with something being meta in certain encounters, for example I'm sure melee is meta in the original CMs for DRMs, it's just guard is heavily features in almost any meta. I can't think of an encounter where you wouldn't want a guard, but you can't say the same thing for every class. That, to me, is a heavy indicator that professions are not well balanced.

Then it's a matter of preference regarding what's unbalanced. You find ranged being preferred over melee perfectly okay but dislike how certain classes may be more preferred in
optimal
situations. In both situations a group of players are being preferred but in only one of them you are negatively affected. Meta, or optimal, comps are not the only way that something can be done. This has been repeated over and over since the game launched. You can easily complete every DRM CM with all DPS players assuming that they can do actual DPS and not completely fail mechanics. Every class is capable of doing enough DPS.

You've massively misinterpreted what I've said, not sure if a conversation is even valuable anymore. I gave an example where ranged isn't meta and clearly said I'm fine with metas changing between encounters, it's when something features over and over there's a problem. Also note, you're talking about playstyle metas, I'm talking about profession metas. Also note guardian isn't meta just because of DPS, it's the defensive capabilities that make it so preferred. It has those AND damage. PROFESSION balance is what I started talking about. If you keep going off about ranged, you're missing the point entirely.

I'm not misinterpreting anything. I simply highlighted a contradictory/hypocritical part of your post where you were fine with ranged being meta over melee but took issue with a certain build being meta over others.

You absolutely are:

" What meta doesn't feature guard? I'm fine with something being meta in certain encounters, for example I'm sure melee is meta in the original CMs for DRMs, it's just guard is heavily features in almost any meta. I can't think of an encounter where you wouldn't want a guard, but you can't say the same thing for every class. That, to me, is a heavy indicator that professions are not well balanced. "

I never said I wanted range in every scenario, i'm just wondering where this hyporcisy comes from. And again, you're focused on playstyle when I started talking about professions. Maybe you can highlight what I said that gave you this impression?

This entire thread was started about two SPECIFIC DRMs. I never claimed range was meta for everything.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@"Nephalem.8921" said:Meta is 4cfb + ren. You dont need healing when you can aegis everything. Ren can provide superspeed for the escort aswell.

So much balance, that class diversity right there......

To be brutally clear, it's not that I want guardians nerfed, I just think too many mechanics are hard countered by them. I feel like when such large disparities in class capability exist, it's a clear balance problem.

First off, every class is very much capable of doing the CMs. Secondly, with all of the classes/builds in the game as well as the numerous encounters, it's unreasonable to assume that every class/build would be equally balanced for every encounter. I mean, in your OP you were claiming range to be meta. Would that be considered balanced? It's wrong to assume that things are not balanced just because something else is optimal.

What meta doesn't feature guard? I'm fine with something being meta in certain encounters, for example I'm sure melee is meta in the original CMs for DRMs, it's just guard is heavily features in almost any meta. I can't think of an encounter where you wouldn't want a guard, but you can't say the same thing for every class. That, to me, is a heavy indicator that professions are not well balanced.

Then it's a matter of preference regarding what's unbalanced. You find ranged being preferred over melee perfectly okay but dislike how certain classes may be more preferred in
optimal
situations. In both situations a group of players are being preferred but in only one of them you are negatively affected. Meta, or optimal, comps are not the only way that something can be done. This has been repeated over and over since the game launched. You can easily complete every DRM CM with all DPS players assuming that they can do actual DPS and not completely fail mechanics. Every class is capable of doing enough DPS.

You've massively misinterpreted what I've said, not sure if a conversation is even valuable anymore. I gave an example where ranged isn't meta and clearly said I'm fine with metas changing between encounters, it's when something features over and over there's a problem. Also note, you're talking about playstyle metas, I'm talking about profession metas. Also note guardian isn't meta just because of DPS, it's the defensive capabilities that make it so preferred. It has those AND damage. PROFESSION balance is what I started talking about. If you keep going off about ranged, you're missing the point entirely.

I'm not misinterpreting anything. I simply highlighted a contradictory/hypocritical part of your post where you were fine with ranged being meta over melee but took issue with a certain build being meta over others.

You absolutely are:

" What meta doesn't feature guard?
I'm fine with something being meta in certain encounters, for example I'm sure melee is meta in the original CMs for DRMs
, it's just guard is heavily features in almost any meta. I can't think of an encounter where you wouldn't want a guard, but you can't say the same thing for every class. That, to me, is a heavy indicator that
professions
are not well balanced. "

I never said I wanted range in every scenario. And again, you're focused on playstyle when I started talking about professions.

This entire thread was started about two SPECIFIC DRMs. I never claimed range was meta for everything.

Range is not meta for anything, its a lot easier then melee but that dont make it meta in any way shape or form.Thunder head peak you have to be melee range to kill eggs you cant range them.

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