DRM are not what we think?

[TheThief.8475]

What if DRM are actually instanced story chapters that you play in party? Everyone says they suck because lack of rewards, maybe they are not meant to be repeated, if not for achivements.

I completed all DRM yesterday, and I a have to say I enjoyed em a lot (except the metrica and caledon).

Imo they are a GREAT way to play the instanced story chapter that you used to play alone. They are not repeatable content (or even end game content), they are just great if you play each of them one time to advance the story. I would like to see some instanced story chapter in this format in EoD.

I've played gw2 for a very long time, and this is the first time i have really enjoyed the instanced story, wich were much more boring even in HoT and PoF with no exception for living world season 3 and 4.

But yes, there is no content added in the game in the "champions" releases, no one can deny it (no maps, no strikes, no meta events ecc).But no, DRM are not as bad as everyone says, they are just a fun way to push instanced story (imo). Not a repeatable content, but not bad content.

What do you think?

[Ameepa.6793]

They would not have grindy achievements to repeat them a number of times , dailies to complete them every day and their own currency if they were ment to be played only once.

[AgentMoore.9453]

It's possible DRMs were meant to simply be Living World story steps (with the usual mediocre rewards) and were later adapted into repeatable content when the dev team suddenly had "Hey guys, we're doing an expansion now" dropped into their laps mid-production. Not only does it feel that way from the perspective of a player, but recent Guild Chat remarks suggest the same.

Something that seems like it was meant to be one and done is now being marketed as a.) a new type of content (it isn't) and b.) something that players are expected to grind repeatedly. If they are doing this to fill the space between here and End of Dragons, they need to continue refining DRMs so that the rewards and enjoyability are proportional to the effort of repetition that goes into doing them and listening to the same voice lines over and over.

Perhaps the Volcanic Stormcaller weapon set is supposed to be the carrot that keeps people playing DRMs the way Tequatl and Drakkar weapons keep people doing those metas? Unclear, but more (or at least more desirable) rewards need to be added to DRMs or people will only do the bare minimum before ultimately abandoning DRMs completely.

[Kondor.2904]

@"TheThief.8475" said:What if DRM are actually instanced story chapters that you play in party? Everyone says they suck because lack of rewards, maybe they are not meant to be repeated, if not for achivements.

I completed all DRM yesterday, and I a have to say I enjoyed em a lot (except the metrica and caledon).

Imo they are a GREAT way to play the instanced story chapter that you used to play alone. They are not repeatable content (or even end game content), they are just great if you play each of them one time to advance the story. I would like to see some instanced story chapter in this format in EoD.

I've played gw2 for a very long time, and this is the first time i have really enjoyed the instanced story, wich were much more boring even in HoT and PoF with no exception for living world season 3 and 4.

But yes, there is no content added in the game in the "champions" releases, no one can deny it (no maps, no strikes, no meta events ecc).But no, DRM are not as bad as everyone says, they are just a fun way to push instanced story (imo). Not a repeatable content, but not bad content.

What do you think?

That's exactly how I treated them. And imo the story narrative is more dynamic this way, sometimes a bit too dynamic (i missed some dialogues when i joined them the first time, cuz i felt feel like we were tight on time), I did enjoy them in terms of story interaction and progression, I think overall it's better than stealing candy from a baby-boss 1v1 in the solo story instances.

And while the end bosses themselves can be fought repeatedly for certain rewards in CM, I think the initial preparation missions are too tedious to do them over and over again. If they want to make them into something more or less repeatable, they should get rid of the excessive dialogues and initial quests after the 1rst "story mode" completion (with some kind of option to repeat it if you want to hear that all again), so you can proceed straight to the escort/boss.

[TheThief.8475]

@"Ameepa.6793" said:They would not have grindy achievements to repeat them a number of times , dailies to complete them every day and their own currency if they were ment to be played only once.

This is true, but I think that they did it to keep us busy with some "content" while they are developing EoD. Maybe they were not meant to be repeatable, but since the devs didn't know about the expansion (wich was decided to be made during the icebrood saga), they had to change things a bit, to do the most of the job for the expansion, and the few possible for icebrood(?)

[TheThief.8475]

@"AgentMoore.9453" said:It's possible DRMs were meant to simply be Living World story steps (with the usual mediocre rewards) and were later adapted into repeatable content when the dev team suddenly had "Hey guys, we're doing an expansion now" dropped into their laps mid-production. Not only does it feel that way from the perspective of a player, but recent Guild Chat remarks suggest the same.

Something that seems like it was meant to be one and done is now being marketed as a.) a new type of content (it isn't) and b.) something that players are expected to grind repeatedly. If they are doing this to fill the space between here and End of Dragons, they need to continue refining DRMs so that the rewards and enjoyability are proportional to the effort of repetition that goes into doing them and listening to the same voice lines over and over.

Perhaps the Volcanic Stormcaller weapon set is supposed to be the carrot that keeps people playing DRMs the way Tequatl and Drakkar weapons keep people doing those metas? Unclear, but more (or at least more desirable) rewards need to be added to DRMs or people will only do the bare minimum before ultimately abandoning DRMs completely.

Exactly what i thought, I read your comment just after I said the same thing :D (even if you were much more detailed!)

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"TheThief.8475" said:What if DRM are actually instanced story chapters that you play in party? Everyone says they suck because lack of rewards, maybe they are not meant to be repeated, if not for achivements.

I completed all DRM yesterday, and I a have to say I enjoyed em a lot (except the metrica and caledon).

Imo they are a GREAT way to play the instanced story chapter that you used to play alone. They are not repeatable content (or even end game content), they are just great if you play each of them one time to advance the story. I would like to see some instanced story chapter in this format in EoD.

I've played gw2 for a very long time, and this is the first time i have really enjoyed the instanced story, wich were much more boring even in HoT and PoF with no exception for living world season 3 and 4.

But yes, there is no content added in the game in the "champions" releases, no one can deny it (no maps, no strikes, no meta events ecc).But no, DRM are not as bad as everyone says, they are just a fun way to push instanced story (imo). Not a repeatable content, but not bad content.

What do you think?

"I knew it! I knew it would be bad news. Wait, I have an idea. Maybe if you tell me the bad news in a good way, it won't sound so bad."

They aren't repeatable content at all. That's why they have...dailies. There's no content, of course. But at least you don't have to repeat DRMs. So, you see DRMs are a really great method of content delivery!

I'm glad you're enjoying them, but to me they feel like copy/paste content that does not stand well on its own. Icebrood Saga started off strong with the prologue which had a map full of personality and a pretty solid story episode associated with it. It's unfortunate that we're now approaching the finale trying to justify to each other how little the story is delivering. This is a sad franchise that could have been so much more if it had been managed properly.

[mindcircus.1506]

@TheThief.8475 said:What if DRM are actually instanced story chapters that you play in party? Everyone says they suck because lack of rewards, maybe they are not meant to be repeated, if not for achivements.The devs are on record multiple times saying this content is meant to be repeatable.

[TheThief.8475]

@mindcircus.1506 said:

@TheThief.8475 said:What if DRM are actually instanced story chapters that you play in party? Everyone says they suck because lack of rewards, maybe they are not meant to be repeated, if not for achivements.The devs are on record multiple times saying this content is meant to be repeatable.

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@TheThief.8475 said:What if DRM are actually instanced story chapters that you play in party? Everyone says they suck because lack of rewards, maybe they are not meant to be repeated, if not for achivements.

I completed all DRM yesterday, and I a have to say I enjoyed em a lot (

except the metrica and caledon

).

Imo they are a GREAT way to play the instanced story chapter that you used to play alone. They are not repeatable content (or even end game content), they are just great if you play each of them one time to advance the story. I would like to see some instanced story chapter in this format in EoD.

I've played gw2 for a very long time, and this is the first time i have really enjoyed the instanced story, wich were much more boring even in HoT and PoF with no exception for living world season 3 and 4.

But yes, there is no content added in the game in the "champions" releases, no one can deny it (no maps, no strikes, no meta events ecc).But no, DRM are not as bad as everyone says, they are just a fun way to push instanced story (imo). Not a repeatable content, but not bad content.

What do you think?

"I knew it! I knew it would be bad news. Wait, I have an idea. Maybe if you tell me the

bad

news in a

good

way, it won't sound so bad."

They aren't repeatable content at all. That's why they have...dailies. There's no content, of course. But at least you don't have to repeat DRMs. So, you see DRMs are a really great method of content delivery!

I'm glad you're enjoying them, but to me they feel like copy/paste content that does not stand well on its own. Icebrood Saga started off strong with the prologue which had a map full of personality and a pretty solid story episode associated with it. It's unfortunate that we're now approaching the finale trying to justify to each other how little the story is delivering. This is a sad franchise that could have been so much more if it had been managed properly.

Copy pasting the answer from a previous comment :D.

This is true, but I think that they did it to keep us busy with some "content" while they are developing EoD. Maybe they were not meant to be repeatable, but since the devs didn't know about the expansion (wich was decided to be made during the icebrood saga), they had to change things a bit, to do the most of the job for the expansion, and the few possible for icebrood(?)

So maybe they reworked them to be repeatable to give us something to play until the expansion :D

[zealex.9410]

Imo lw and expansions would imrpove if story missions were solo/group content like drms. Extra point if they have rare drops and achievements to promote replayability.

Also strikes, major fights in story could then be strikes for groups.

[Fueki.4753]

DRMs are exactly what we think they are.They are replacing proper story content that usually comes with story missions.They are replacing the Open World content we have gotten which each episode since Season 3.It's content that has been scraped together and coupled with grindy achievements to give players something to do and prevent a content drought.

I wish they had just given us an epilogue that explains why we go to Cantha and how the journey is related to Jormag's awakening.In my opinion, a content drought following said epilogue would have been less detrimental to the game.

[Blude.6812]

@Fueki.4753 said:DRMs are exactly what we think they are.They are replacing proper story content that usually comes with story missions.They are replacing the Open World content we have gotten which each episode since Season 3.It's content that has been scraped together and coupled with grindy achievements to give players something to do and prevent a content drought.

I wish they had just given us an epilogue that explains why we go to Cantha and how the journey is related to Jormag's awakening.In my opinion, a content drought following said epilogue would have been less detrimental to the game.

Truth!!! And it IS what drms are.

[TheThief.8475]

@Fueki.4753 said:DRMs are exactly what we think they are.They are replacing proper story content that usually comes with story missions.They are replacing the Open World content we have gotten which each episode since Season 3.It's content that has been scraped together and coupled with grindy achievements to give players something to do and prevent a content drought.

I wish they had just given us an epilogue that explains why we go to Cantha and how the journey is related to Jormag's awakening.In my opinion, a content drought following said epilogue would have been less detrimental to the game.

It is true that they are replacing content, but i will repeat myself once again, maybe when there was no expansion plan, the drm would have been released alongside a new map (who knows, they said plans changed when they were told to develop a new expansion this is the reality - i'm not inventing it).

We have 2 chapters yet and they will sure explain us about Jormag, and our jurney to Cantha, don't worry about that.

We just need to resist for some months (ch4 will be realeasin late april) for EoD, and then we will discuss about what they did, and why. Whish the best for us :D

[TheThief.8475]

@"zealex.9410" said:Imo lw and expansions would imrpove if story missions were solo/group content like drms. Extra point if they have rare drops and achievements to promote replayability.

Also strikes, major fights in story could then be strikes for groups.

I agree with that. The solo story bosses is a format that doesn't work imo, makes it feel like the BIG END BOSS of the expansion is just a stupid dummy that you can face alone and easy win with little to no effort during the fight.

A "strike mission style" last chapter would be great. Imagine creating strike mission for big bosses like mordremoth and balthazar. Not only the end of the story would feel much more epic and significant, we also would have more end game contant that remains and is replayable. Great idea my friend.

[Linken.6345]

@TheThief.8475 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:Imo lw and expansions would imrpove if story missions were solo/group content like drms. Extra point if they have rare drops and achievements to promote replayability.

Also strikes, major fights in story could then be strikes for groups.

I agree with that. The solo story bosses is a format that doesn't work imo, makes it feel like the BIG END BOSS of the expansion is just a stupid dummy that you can face alone and easy win with little to no effort during the fight.

A "strike mission style" last chapter would be great. Imagine creating strike mission for big bosses like mordremoth and balthazar. Not only the end of the story would feel much more epic and significant, we also would have more end game contant that remains and is replayable. Great idea my friend.

The end for core story was story mode of the dungeon Arah, players dident like that they all of a sudden had to group to finish story so I doubt Anet will make that mistake again.

[Yasai.3549]

If yu strip everything away, DRMs are basically watered down Fractals.

Single scenario - Story driven objectives - Boss at the end with some mechanics.These are all the makings of a Fractal.

[Brayonsky.4736]

@Linken.6345 said:

@TheThief.8475 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:Imo lw and expansions would imrpove if story missions were solo/group content like drms. Extra point if they have rare drops and achievements to promote replayability.

Also strikes, major fights in story could then be strikes for groups.

I agree with that. The solo story bosses is a format that doesn't work imo, makes it feel like the BIG END BOSS of the expansion is just a stupid dummy that you can face alone and easy win with little to no effort during the fight.

A "strike mission style" last chapter would be great. Imagine creating strike mission for big bosses like mordremoth and balthazar. Not only the end of the story would feel much more epic and significant, we also would have more end game contant that remains and is replayable. Great idea my friend.

The end for core story was story mode of the dungeon Arah, players dident like that they all of a sudden had to group to finish story so I doubt Anet will make that mistake again.

maybe if they do it like with Jormag's Voice; solo story boss then strike

[Pifil.5193]

@Yasai.3549 said:If yu strip everything away, DRMs are basically watered down Fractals.

Single scenario - Story driven objectives - Boss at the end with some mechanics.These are all the makings of a Fractal.

Yeah, or a simple open world event chain, a simple event to gather everyone together, escort/defend section and a boss. These DRMs are a lot like a simplified version of the assaults on the fortresses and towns in Drizzlewood. Without everything else in the episode and on that map. It's amazing just how little is in these chapters compared to the episodes that came before them.

[Fueki.4753]

@TheThief.8475 said:i will repeat myself once again, maybe when there was no expansion plan, the drm would have been released alongside a new mapThat's just your speculation, repeating yourself won't change that.Arenanet could have chosen an entirely different direction.After all, Arenanet also wanted to implemented things similar to season 1,yet the only things close to season 1 are the season 1 instances accessible via the scrying pool.

Point is, we don't know whether they would have chosen DRMs or not, if there had been no expansion in development.But the end result is that we got them and they worse than content droughts.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@TheThief.8475 said:maybe when there was no expansion plan, the drm would have been released alongside a new map (who knows, they said plans changed when they were told to develop a new expansion this is the reality - i'm not inventing it).

This all assuming that DRMs were actually planned to be included from the start of the saga and not added as cheap filler content later on in order to keep us busy until the expansion.

[zealex.9410]

Ppl focus, drms dont need to replace propper story instances or ow maps, they just need after eod to be implemented as a replayable mode of story instances that include combat.

They reuse everything from mobs to bosses to the instance itself so the only work needed is basically comming up with rewards. This type of content absolutely can make the gw2 experience better for solo and group players alike.

[TheThief.8475]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@TheThief.8475 said:i will repeat myself once again, maybe when there was no expansion plan, the drm would have been released alongside a new mapThat's just your speculation, repeating yourself won't change that.Arenanet could have chosen an entirely different direction.After all, Arenanet also wanted to implemented things similar to season 1,yet the only things close to season 1 are the season 1 instances accessible via the scrying pool.

Point is, we don't

know

whether they would have chosen DRMs or not, if there had been no expansion in development.But the end result is that we got them and they worse than content droughts.

That was an assuption, but the change of plans is not. I'm just saying that if they use this format for some story chapters (wich u can play alone, but in public intsances) that would be cool imo. The assumpions that I made is due to the fact that DRM replayability is weak and feels like they had to add it to keep us busy.If DRMs were designed like a replayable content long time ago I doubt that replayability would have sucked so much (but who knows, maybe they shouldn't have existed at all?).Anyway they are giving us what they can during the expac developement, and i can see potential in this format, even tho I won't like them as replayable end game content, I would appreciate them as replayable instanced story content.

Time will tell us what are (and were) the plans for DRMs, or if they were created because of the expac developement.

[TheThief.8475]

@Linken.6345 said:

@TheThief.8475 said:

@"zealex.9410" said:Imo lw and expansions would imrpove if story missions were solo/group content like drms. Extra point if they have rare drops and achievements to promote replayability.

Also strikes, major fights in story could then be strikes for groups.

I agree with that. The solo story bosses is a format that doesn't work imo, makes it feel like the BIG END BOSS of the expansion is just a stupid dummy that you can face alone and easy win with little to no effort during the fight.

A "strike mission style" last chapter would be great. Imagine creating strike mission for big bosses like mordremoth and balthazar. Not only the end of the story would feel much more epic and significant, we also would have more end game contant that remains and is replayable. Great idea my friend.

The end for core story was story mode of the dungeon Arah, players dident like that they all of a sudden had to group to finish story so I doubt Anet will make that mistake again.

I remember the last core story boss fight is a single player content, and i can remember the horrible fight with zaithan where u just press one key on the cannon to damage and kill him, and who in the world would prefer this horrible content to a strike mission where u have a real epic fight against zaithan?

People didn't like to play arah story mode as "final chapter"(i can't remember that but it was in 2013, so might be my memory -404 memory not found).People don't like a lot of contents in gw2 but yet we have it. Players will never have all the same tastes, but they can focus on what players that play the game a lot of time want (players where they get most of the money from) . And i suppose you are saying that anet wont do this while you would like it, am I right?

[TheThief.8475]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"TheThief.8475" said:maybe when there was no expansion plan, the drm would have been released alongside a new map (who knows, they said

plans changed

when they were told to develop a new expansion this is the reality - i'm not inventing it).

This all assuming that DRMs were actually planned to be included from the start of the saga and not added as cheap filler content later on in order to keep us busy until the expansion.

Yes, i suppose that they were planned as instanced story chapters for champion, but they were modified to make them replayable, because the content delivery speed is significanlty decreased (imo they would have released "Champions" without chapters from 1 to 4, but all at once)

Do you think it is possible?

[TheThief.8475]

@zealex.9410 said:Ppl focus, drms dont need to replace propper story instances or ow maps, they just need after eod to be implemented as a replayable mode of story instances that include combat.

They reuse everything from mobs to bosses to the instance itself so the only work needed is basically comming up with rewards. This type of content absolutely can make the gw2 experience better for solo and group players alike.

Cool idea too :D