PVP is beyond bad

[Beezl.4180]

Hi,I was a 2015 gw2 player and back then pvp was hella fun, yes there were the select few classes that could kind of snowball but not every class it wasnt all so common, pretty much any class could beat any class back then at least. I recently returned to the game to find new specs and new builds and in all honesty, its bad, its really bad, classes that I could easily snowball before and outplay now deal tons of dmg and they just stand there and dont move, its as if they are clicking the skills with their mouse to fight me where I am dodging and weavin and they just sit there. Back to the dmg part what is that about ? I and some of my team mates got slaughtered in a few hits, that was never the case before, it took skill and timing and patience to kill someone but it felt like you pulled it off and it felt rewarding, now its just a broken spec and pew pew you are dead ... I dont want to sound salty or that I am terrible, because I have been playing mmo since a very long time, call mea mmo vet if you like and gw2 I use to live and breathe pvp back then, competitve even. I even had a proper team of people put together at one point we were ready to compete and all and we were doing ranked against high ranked players and winning purely down to skill though, sadly I bought the expansions with the thought I could get into some pvp again and the pve side of things but since pvp is so scuffed I dont think I will be continuing with this game, sad they had to ruin it like that. I am not salty I am just disappointed.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Beezl.4180 said:classes that I could easily snowball beforeSo being able to easily snowball classes is better. Sounds like you had the perfect balance back then.

[Beezl.4180]

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Beezl.4180 said:classes that I could easily snowball beforeSo being able to easily snowball classes is better. Sounds like you had the

perfect

balance back then.

Not like they couldnt snowball me, skill mattered more back then then it does now, there were no overpowered specs that kill you in 2-3 shots, you got deadeye now a days literally just pew pews you in 2-3 shots just cause he can and can go invis any time it wants to, I just had skill back then thats what allowed me to trample people down, skill > broken new specs and meta.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

You can play some builds with 1 hand and will still easily win certain matchups. Either play the gimmicky meta or move on to something else.

[Beezl.4180]

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:You can play some builds with 1 hand and will still easily win certain matchups. Either play the gimmicky meta or move on to something else.

Yes I just moved on, its not fun to press and move the camera like crazy, against someone who does 0 effort and just easily wins. Like I mentioned I am not salty just disappointed.

[Dawdler.8521]

@Beezl.4180 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Beezl.4180 said:classes that I could easily snowball beforeSo being able to easily snowball classes is better. Sounds like you had the

perfect

balance back then.

Not like they couldnt snowball me, skill mattered more back then then it does now, there were no overpowered specs that kill you in 2-3 shots, you got deadeye now a days literally just pew pews you in 2-3 shots just cause he can and can go invis any time it wants to, I just had skill back then thats what allowed me to trample people down, skill > broken new specs and meta.Well then, lets check.

Cracks knuckles

"Game isnt based around 1v1, together with a thief for example they can oneshot things easily. Hundred blades is too strong and even though heartseeker is worse, it isnt skill rewarding as this game should be. Nerf the blades and look over other things that reward using more abilities, that reward weapon swapping. Warriors is in a OP place now because of 100 blades, you can hardly find any premade tournament team without at least one or two of them."The oldest post found when searching for "oneshot", 2012-09-14

... and that's just the beginning...

Well after some thought I might as well add this, even though its long. The first post found for "one-shot", 2012-09-12.

"Well after a decent amount of experience with the game across a few professions, I’ve decided to post my thoughts about the game PvP wise and make suggestions as to what I think needs tweaking. First off, I am Rank 23 with around 200 Tournament games played. The games played are mostly on Thief and Elementalist as I enjoy playing high mobile roamer builds. Anyways, lets begin!

Stealth-

One of the biggest glaring flaws for me at the moment is the Stealth mechanic. Its not so much that I dislike Stealth, but in the current form, enemies seem to “linger” in Stealth longer than what seems intended. What I mean by this, is that when an enemy breaks stealth by attacking you, on their screen they come out instantly, but on your screen your taking damage from someone that isn’t visible yet. its a huge issue at the moment allowing people to basically do absurd things because of it.

In my opinion, they need to remove the “fade in” unstealthing and just make it where the instant they come out of stealth you can see them. I also think Stealth is too readily accessible for Thieves. Maybe slightly increase the debuff after using a stealth skill.

Retaliation-

Another mechanic that in my eyes right now is broken. I feel like the Boon is supposed to make the enemy player make tough decisions about whether to attack you or not. Either they choose to wait the Boon out or they choose to take the punishment for attacking you. Well right now it seems to just be a Boon without much thought behind it. Because Guardians, Engineers, and Mesmer can have almost have 100% uptime with it which is absurd.

Retaliation right now is WAY too strong for a boon that is kept up 100% of the time. Either reduce the damage it does, reduce the uptime of it, or change it where its a hard hitting boon but doesn’t last long forcing enemy players to pay attention and make decisions whether its a good idea to attack you or not.

Quickness-

All I have to say about this mechanic is it needs to just be completely removed in my opinion. Not every profession has access to it, and the ones that do seem to all run it. It makes the TTK (time to kill) way too quick and is why you see Thieves, Warriors, and Rangers running around burning someone in seconds. Being able to kill someone in 2 seconds does not take skill or playing smart to do. And yes there is dodge, but if your engaged with someone and a Thief comes and Haste+Heartseeker you to death before you can blink or a Warrior 100 Blades Frenzy you while your stuck in even the shortest CC, your dead. Dying like that is not enjoyable for anyone and honestly I don’t know why people run those builds because I definitely don’t find enjoyment in one-shotting someone using a (imo) broken mechanic.

Heartseeker-

Need I say more? I played a Thief and even I agree this is the most broken skill in the game. It only costs 3 Initiative, has great mobility so it can be used as a gap closer, and hits like a TRUCK. I find it discouraging that a 3 Initiative skill on a Thief can hit as hard if not harder than a full burst rotation on a Elementalist. Unfortunately ANet really shot themselves in the foot when they made one profession have Initiative which allows them to spam skills. With skills like this their will always be gimmick builds that take no more skill as to hit 2 a couple times. They need to remove the gap closer and severely reduce the damage.

Phantasms- Damage needs to be toned down slightly."

It's sounding awfully familiar.

[VICBEAR.1529]

PvP in this game is made to give you headache not fun.

I'm serious.Have you ever left your computer feeling satisfying after PvP?Have you ever felt a sense of joy in the lead up to PvP?

Probably not, you just need farm reward track.

[Downstate.4697]

Considering you could 3v1 as a tempest on point indefinately back then i wouldnt say it required more skill. Roles felt more defined for sure. Nerfing damage instead of reintroducing toughness amulets may have hurt the game in the long run.

[Curennos.9307]

@Beezl.4180 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Beezl.4180 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@Beezl.4180 said:classes that I could easily snowball beforeSo being able to easily snowball classes is better. Sounds like you had the

perfect

balance back then.

Not like they couldnt snowball me, skill mattered more back then then it does now, there were no overpowered specs that kill you in 2-3 shots, you got deadeye now a days literally just pew pews you in 2-3 shots just cause he can and can go invis any time it wants to, I just had skill back then thats what allowed me to trample people down, skill > broken new specs and meta.Well then, lets check.

Cracks knuckles

"Game isnt based around 1v1, together with a thief for example they can oneshot things easily. Hundred blades is too strong and even though heartseeker is worse, it isnt skill rewarding as this game should be. Nerf the blades and look over other things that reward using more abilities, that reward weapon swapping. Warriors is in a OP place now because of 100 blades, you can hardly find any premade tournament team without at least one or two of them."

The oldest post found when searching for "oneshot", 2012-09-14

... and that's just the beginning...

Well after some thought I might as well add this, even though its long. The first post found for "one-shot", 2012-09-12.

"Well after a decent amount of experience with the game across a few professions, I’ve decided to post my thoughts about the game PvP wise and make suggestions as to what I think needs tweaking. First off, I am Rank 23 with around 200 Tournament games played. The games played are mostly on Thief and Elementalist as I enjoy playing high mobile roamer builds. Anyways, lets begin!

Stealth-

One of the biggest glaring flaws for me at the moment is the Stealth mechanic. Its not so much that I dislike Stealth, but in the current form, enemies seem to “linger” in Stealth longer than what seems intended. What I mean by this, is that when an enemy breaks stealth by attacking you, on their screen they come out instantly, but on your screen your taking damage from someone that isn’t visible yet. its a huge issue at the moment allowing people to basically do absurd things because of it.

In my opinion, they need to remove the “fade in” unstealthing and just make it where the instant they come out of stealth you can see them. I also think Stealth is too readily accessible for Thieves. Maybe slightly increase the debuff after using a stealth skill.

Retaliation-

Another mechanic that in my eyes right now is broken. I feel like the Boon is supposed to make the enemy player make tough decisions about whether to attack you or not. Either they choose to wait the Boon out or they choose to take the punishment for attacking you. Well right now it seems to just be a Boon without much thought behind it. Because Guardians, Engineers, and Mesmer can have almost have 100% uptime with it which is absurd.

Retaliation right now is WAY too strong for a boon that is kept up 100% of the time. Either reduce the damage it does, reduce the uptime of it, or change it where its a hard hitting boon but doesn’t last long forcing enemy players to pay attention and make decisions whether its a good idea to attack you or not.

Quickness-

All I have to say about this mechanic is it needs to just be completely removed in my opinion. Not every profession has access to it, and the ones that do seem to all run it. It makes the TTK (time to kill) way too quick and is why you see Thieves, Warriors, and Rangers running around burning someone in seconds. Being able to kill someone in 2 seconds does not take skill or playing smart to do. And yes there is dodge, but if your engaged with someone and a Thief comes and Haste+Heartseeker you to death before you can blink or a Warrior 100 Blades Frenzy you while your stuck in even the shortest CC, your dead. Dying like that is not enjoyable for anyone and honestly I don’t know why people run those builds because I definitely don’t find enjoyment in one-shotting someone using a (imo) broken mechanic.

Heartseeker-

Need I say more? I played a Thief and even I agree this is the most broken skill in the game. It only costs 3 Initiative, has great mobility so it can be used as a gap closer, and hits like a TRUCK. I find it discouraging that a 3 Initiative skill on a Thief can hit as hard if not harder than a full burst rotation on a Elementalist. Unfortunately ANet really shot themselves in the foot when they made one profession have Initiative which allows them to spam skills. With skills like this their will always be gimmick builds that take no more skill as to hit 2 a couple times. They need to remove the gap closer and severely reduce the damage.

Phantasms- Damage needs to be toned down slightly."

It's sounding awfully familiar.

The fact you went out of your way to make an essay, shows me you how new you are to mmos and pvp in general, excuses are the first nature of a person who is buttlicking a game. Do you and get better instead of excusing poor mechanics and dcisions by the devs.

Way to try and deflect from someone calling out your rose tinted glasses.

[Aridon.8362]

I personally don't see a lot of snowballing going around, this actually has to be the best update to have existed in my 6 years of playing this game. If you are getting insta shotted consider changing your playstyle. Be more conservative about your positioning, don't eat all the red circles, focus on outnumbering the enemies instead of instinctively trying to make the right choice, be a team player, don't be selfish.

Although I tend to lose a lot in ranked, I actually do really well in games, my motif isn't really to win anymore, I don't attribute badges with skill. Often in my matches I get a k/d of like 17-0 or 12-3. There's only been like 1-3 matches where I've done really poorly. Because the focus of my build and playstyle is to kill things quick, I usually get top kills/damage. In my eyes if you get the top stat for something you set your build to work for, you're already doing it right.

Also, another thing, close matches where you have like a tie 450-500 those don't say anything about your skill either, the score and rank badges, are simply just tools to measure how good your team has worked with you if you do good in your matches. When you lose like that it's actually because someone died 7-9 times, go figure, people try crappy builds on ranked. There's also people who tend to die quick to multiple classes, if you are one of those people you need to take a long hard look at your playstyle, and really practice the muscle memory or getting the habit of making sure you have escape mechanisms, and really understand the kind of pressure your class can take. This is by no means a method of getting extra points, just make sure you are someone who is working with the team and not against it.

A common problem I see is people clumping up together and eating scourge wells and breach, there's also people fighting a reaper with shroud, botting is actually a common problem in lower tier gold and it really is costing people, people telling people not to 4v1/3v1/2v1 someone, people telling others to not go far, people not knowing how to rotate, people repeatedly dying, people trying the same failing tactics. And as others have pointed out, there has never been a single update where people aren't saying the same things the OP said, not even since launch, I remember back when the game launched I was maining ranger and I couldn't defeat a warrior because they were just undefeatable 1v1; hence why they were the go-to class for pve-pvp-wvw.

That being said in this patch you don't have scourges 1 shotting people the way they did at the start of PoF, you dont have glass mesmers torpedoing you with a single hit, you don't have unkillable scrappers or elementalists. It is actually more balanced than it's ever been before, just learn to be conservative. As an example, I had this ele call me nice after I outplayed him; ele's normally kill warriors easily, but they often fail to kill me. Always remember war, battles, is all just a mind game, that means wait for openings, points of entry, when to offense when to defense.

If you truly want to measure skill, go into wvw, and roam. Go into pve and raid. Go into pvp and try to get a 4.0 k/d. Recognize badges, gold, treasures, and trophies none of that means anything if you're just a sacrificial lamb in any of those game modes. Go into pve metas and NOT die. Something you could try for decision making skills, go into hard map metas, for a week, and if you have more than say 5 deaths, you are not good enough for ranked pvp. Try it, see how it goes. The problem with death in this game is that we've grown too comfortable with waypoints and mounts, it's not healthy if death has no penalty I remember I criticized that about the game when I started, it doesn't put the challenge to not die there (granted there was a penalty in waypoint money, but now it's really easy to make gold). Treat your character's life like it means something and you'll play a fun game I promise.

[Stallic.2397]

Gotta admit, there's a core Necro build with minions and tons of life force that basically does nothing but spit out condi and stand on node till either you give up or die. Irritating as kitten. Talk about low effort for a build that can 2v1.

Just an example of the gimmicky meta.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Stallic.2397 said:Gotta admit, there's a core Necro build with minions and tons of life force that basically does nothing but spit out condi and stand on node till either you give up or die. Irritating as kitten. Talk about low effort for a build that can 2v1.

Just an example of the gimmicky meta.

Funny you mention that.

Last night I was fighting a Core Minion Necro and somehow even though I could have the actual Necro tied up in a CC chain, he could push his minion's utility attacks all at the same time and if they actually all hit you, it was like a 12k solid burst every time. That minion damage is way way over the top for what it is right now.

[Kuma.1503]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Stallic.2397 said:Gotta admit, there's a core Necro build with minions and tons of life force that basically does nothing but spit out condi and stand on node till either you give up or die. Irritating as kitten. Talk about low effort for a build that can 2v1.

Just an example of the gimmicky meta.

Funny you mention that.

Last night I was fighting a Core Minion Necro and somehow even though I could have the actual Necro tied up in a CC chain, he could push his minion's utility attacks all at the same time and if they actually all hit you, it was like a 12k solid burst every time. That minion damage is way way over the top for what it is right now.

A large chunk of that is vampiric presence. It gets ridiculous real fast when you're proccing it from 7 different sources.

[Avatar.3568]

@VICBEAR.1529 said:PvP in this game is made to give you headache not fun.

I'm serious.Have you ever left your computer feeling satisfying after PvP?Have you ever felt a sense of joy in the lead up to PvP?

Probably not, you just need farm reward track.

If you don't have fun why playing it?

[Cynz.9437]

@VICBEAR.1529 said:PvP in this game is made to give you headache not fun.

I'm serious.Have you ever left your computer feeling satisfying after PvP?Have you ever felt a sense of joy in the lead up to PvP?

Probably not, you just need farm reward track.

To answer your questions:yes and yes. That is what makes pvp so enjoyable: the challenge. What doesn't make it so enjoyable is short-sighted profit oriented development strategies. I will stay by my point: the moment pvp became p2w was the moment when it became less enjoyable for me (and i think for many other as well otherwise my friend list consisting mainly of pvp'ers that used to be pretty long wouldn't be so gray today). A lot of things people complain today on pvp and wvw forums are direct consequence of the those profit-oriented decisions (elite spec = need to be an upgrade to core with a lot of spammy and do it all design so company can make moneyz).

[archangel.8721]

@VICBEAR.1529 said:PvP in this game is made to give you headache not fun.

I'm serious.Have you ever left your computer feeling satisfying after PvP?Have you ever felt a sense of joy in the lead up to PvP?

Probably not, you just need farm reward track.

People actually do. The same persons (7+ y of game) do placement on Duos, get plat1/2, now than they can soloQ with 50% winrate or just DuoQ and climbing it.

[Loboling.5293]

I'll be honest, I think the Meta is better than it was a year ago. I'm enjoying PvP a lot more than I expected. At least in G3/P1, you can play dozens of different builds, which is keeping me playing for the first time in almost 6 months.

I can understand compared to 2015, how it might be worse, but it's still not as bad as it was in 2020/2019...

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Loboling.5293 said:I'll be honest, I think the Meta is better than it was a year ago. I'm enjoying PvP a lot more than I expected. At least in G3/P1, you can play dozens of different builds, which is keeping me playing for the first time in almost 6 months.

I can understand compared to 2015, how it might be worse, but it's still not as bad as it was in 2020/2019...

No. This is one of the worst metas ever. It's like new players were asked, fresh off the start, what they want to change in PvP after a few games.

[Downstate.4697]

The reason I hate pvp these days is toxic people in ranked. Playing meta is boring AF and anyone catching you not playing meta they go crazy and talk about how bad you are. I want to be competitive but feel like I am forced to play a certain way.

[otto.5684]

@Loboling.5293 said:I'll be honest, I think the Meta is better than it was a year ago. I'm enjoying PvP a lot more than I expected. At least in G3/P1, you can play dozens of different builds, which is keeping me playing for the first time in almost 6 months.

I can understand compared to 2015, how it might be worse, but it's still not as bad as it was in 2020/2019...

You could always play any synergistic build in P1. And people with experience gobble up gold like candy. Nothing in the respect has ever changed at any point in the game, regardless of balance and meta. And balance discussion is only meaningful around equally skilled players.

What changed, is the game is now more targeted towards AoE and CC spam. Trying to burst someone down now, is a futile effort. Just chain lock them. And with TTK going up, the game is far more forgiving of mistakes.

It is basically a slug fest. And I get it, some people prefer that over fast action. But the earlier is typically designed a trinity system. When classes are self sufficient, high damage is a necessity so the game does not stale.

[Hex.2579]

OP tries to come off being disappointed but you sound super salty about the new specs, or get around new builds.Any class could beat any class now. Easy? No. Take skills? Yes. There isn't any snowballing unless I assume it's some low division in ranked.
May just take time to learn the new specs because it's been 6 years since last time you've played. It doesn't matter if you play MMO for a millennia, we have balance patches come up often and consistent now, so things have changed.I mostly play necro in rank thanks to this condi meta, so I can eat the condis and my teammates don't have to. Though, I still refuse to play minionmancer because it's so stupid and it really leaves a stain on one of my favorite classes in the game.

[Ntastan.7509]

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:The reason I hate pvp these days is toxic people in ranked. Playing meta is boring AF and anyone catching you not playing meta they go crazy and talk about how bad you are. I want to be competitive but feel like I am forced to play a certain way.

"these days"? I was always like this in ranked in every game. And no most of the times it's not toxicity. Snowflakes that had their pride/ego offended (and the last few years it's not hard to offend someone) started calling it like that.When you stay to double or even triple cap (yes, i've seen it in plat) while i play a bunker and you are a thief that can go fast for a +1 somewhere, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity".When you keep wasting time trying to win a fight you outnumber enemy at far for like 3-4mins and you don't realize that your team gets outnumbered all this time cause you can't kill or rotate for help, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity".When you run vs 2-3 alone and die instantly all the time, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity".

You don't like meta? Fine, unranked is always there, you can try w/e you want there. Let me guess "ppl that play there troll or enemies are not good enough to test the build"? Ppl play ranked to increase their rating and most of the times they play what they know, expecting others to do the same and by testing new or "hipster" builds you don't. It makes them feel like it's 4v5 and some times it is. Don't expect ppl to say "Oh you have a build that doesn't even do half of others' dmg, bring zero boons, dies almost as fast as zerker but it's fun cause you spin around? Ye that's totally fine. No prob. You can take away my 15 rating". When you play ranked you basically play with other ppl's rating. And btw what do you mean by meta? The 3 builds that are meta atm in metabattle? If yes then i doubt ppl get mad about that. I play a build that is labeled as "good", not even "great", and i get no hate about that.

[Kuma.1503]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:The reason I hate pvp these days is toxic people in ranked. Playing meta is boring AF and anyone catching you not playing meta they go crazy and talk about how bad you are. I want to be competitive but feel like I am forced to play a certain way.

Ignore them. So long as your build has good synergy, and you've got yourself covered on cleanse and stunbreaks, you should be fine. I've had people give me flak for running the air traitline on my auramancer tempest before. They didn't realize that the reason I was doing it was to support a teamate of mine who was playing Spite reaper. His build couldn't give itself fury, so I decided to help him patch up that weakness. With Fresh Air, I could also spam Overload air, applying AoE vuln in teamfights. It gave me further synergy with him because he gains crit chance based on vuln stacks thanks to the trait decimate defenses. We went on to decimate every teamfight we were in together.

Some people refuse to think outside the box. If they give you trouble just mute them and go about your day.

[Downstate.4697]

@Ntastan.7509 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:The reason I hate pvp these days is toxic people in ranked. Playing meta is boring AF and anyone catching you not playing meta they go crazy and talk about how bad you are. I want to be competitive but feel like I am forced to play a certain way.

"these days"? I was always like this in ranked in every game. And no most of the times it's not toxicity. Snowflakes that had their pride/ego offended (and the last few years it's not hard to offend someone) started calling it like that.When you stay to double or even triple cap (yes, i've seen it in plat) while i play a bunker and you are a thief that can go fast for a +1 somewhere, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity".When you keep wasting time trying to win a fight you outnumber enemy at far for like 3-4mins and you don't realize that your team gets outnumbered all this time cause you can't kill or rotate for help, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity".When you run vs 2-3 alone and die instantly all the time, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity".

You don't like meta? Fine, unranked is always there, you can try w/e you want there. Let me guess "ppl that play there troll or enemies are not good enough to test the build"? Ppl play ranked to increase their rating and most of the times they play what they know, expecting others to do the same and by testing new or "hipster" builds you don't. It makes them feel like it's 4v5 and some times it is. Don't expect ppl to say "Oh you have a build that doesn't even do half of others' dmg, bring zero boons, dies almost as fast as zerker but it's fun cause you spin around? Ye that's totally fine. No prob. You can take away my 15 rating". When you play ranked you basically play with other ppl's rating. And btw what do you mean by meta? The 3 builds that are meta atm in metabattle? If yes then i doubt ppl get mad about that. I play a build that is labeled as "good", not even "great", and i get no hate about that.

What does poor rotations have to do with the build you play? And by meta i mean the best build for that profession.

Playing ranked for the sake of climbing is all well and good but how is that fun? I used to enjoy it 5 years ago. Now it seems like a chore.

If they actually paired you with people of your skill level in unranked then yeah i would never touch ranked.

I guess i am salty. Salty that pvp is full of toxic solo players and not people trying to enjoy pvp with their friends. Eliminating competitive team queue solved unfair matchmaking but also ruined the longevity of pvp by discouraging people to play together.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

Well at the moment everyone who likes PvP is doing dragonball because it is a PvP which is 100% fair and it is compare to the PvP Gw 2 a real fun. So you won't find them in ranked PvP.

@FrownyClown.8402 said:

@Ntastan.7509 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:The reason I hate pvp these days is toxic people in ranked. Playing meta is boring AF and anyone catching you not playing meta they go crazy and talk about how bad you are. I want to be competitive but feel like I am forced to play a certain way.

"these days"? I was always like this in ranked in every game. And no most of the times it's not toxicity. Snowflakes that had their pride/ego offended (and the last few years it's not hard to offend someone) started calling it like that.When you stay to double or even triple cap (yes, i've seen it in plat) while i play a bunker and you are a thief that can go fast for a +1 somewhere, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity".When you keep wasting time trying to win a fight you outnumber enemy at far for like 3-4mins and you don't realize that your team gets outnumbered all this time cause you can't kill or rotate for help, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity".When you run vs 2-3 alone and die instantly all the time, then prepare for some of the so-called "toxicity".

You don't like meta? Fine, unranked is always there, you can try w/e you want there. Let me guess "ppl that play there troll or enemies are not good enough to test the build"? Ppl play ranked to increase their rating and most of the times they play what they know, expecting others to do the same and by testing new or "hipster" builds you don't. It makes them feel like it's 4v5 and some times it is. Don't expect ppl to say "Oh you have a build that doesn't even do half of others' dmg, bring zero boons, dies almost as fast as zerker but it's fun cause you spin around? Ye that's totally fine. No prob. You can take away my 15 rating". When you play ranked you basically play with other ppl's rating. And btw what do you mean by meta? The 3 builds that are meta atm in metabattle? If yes then i doubt ppl get mad about that. I play a build that is labeled as "good", not even "great", and i get no hate about that.

What does poor rotations have to do with the build you play? And by meta i mean the best build for that profession.

Playing ranked for the sake of climbing is all well and good but how is that fun? I used to enjoy it 5 years ago. Now it seems like a chore.

If they actually paired you with people of your skill level in unranked then yeah i would never touch ranked.

I guess i am salty. Salty that pvp is full of toxic solo players and not people trying to enjoy pvp with their friends. Eliminating competitive team queue solved unfair matchmaking but also ruined the longevity of pvp by discouraging people to play together.

I wouldn't call it "solved unfair matchmacking" it is hard to explain but by trying to do the most fair system they created to most unfair PvP &match up system possible.to explain it :1.) We have classes / elite specs with vastly different performance-> Because of the bias from the developers but also huge pushes from the community against certain classes with certain agendas(IT is HELL)2.) We have players who plays really bad or outdated builds-> because they think their builds are great and like mentioned people often plays PvP in MMoRPGs like well rpgs and solo.3.)The scoring System doesn't care about the rank of the enemies or how good you perform as an individual(top stats)-> well this is since I believe vanilla so on its own it is not fair and favours bots and rice sacks.4.)The matchmaking system has a unique quirk to it its tries to find matching classes on both sides(also it tries to avoid to many of the same in a match up). First the same then all variate of the base class and then the same armour class when the system looks for ranks I don't know seems relative late.-> They made it so that you have equal opportunity because it is an MMORPG5.) I noticed a weird additional twist in the matchmaking I don't know if this an algorithm or a statistically anomaly roughly every second round you get basically those bad players who plays outdated build appointed to your side at least this is so until end of gold 3.-> You may caught where this goes also this is why some people say they have the feeling the system is rigged in Gw26.) You can change builds shortly before start7.) You can duo queue

When you play it more like LOL and not an RPG you can play the system like a piano and I'm sure players doing it knowingly or not since years.

What you basically do login into a trash build together with a friend then reroll shortly before the actual match begins which alone increase you win chance a lot, you play duo this gets another few points, if you in voice chat another few, if someone can play alternative a condi cleanser tank another few points and this is how you get a high rank position.

I see this a lot in wildlife especially weekends where the numbers of "bad players" rise some other players seems to farm them like crazy.

How is this unfair? Well when you play it the normal way goes in with you standard build duo queuing or not you get those "bad players" and on the other side you get good players with good builds because they took the spots from the bad players on their side and because Arena.NET failed on point 1-6 there is no check and balance in place against such manipulation in PvP.

Edit:To go a bit deeper in to the topic because I'm very convinced people have a hard time to understand this. When you have a game of PvP with a scoring and matchmaking system you have 50% to win in an optimal case but the system how it is kinda force the 50% but only when everything is okay.

This is not normal you have usually some artefacts where you win 4-5 times in a row and then lose 3-6 times after it some time this is not how PvP behaves in Gw2 or better said it more the exception that you see something like this (mainly weekends lose and the follows up wins during the start of the week).

What I calculated is when you have those "bad players" on your side you have at least 70% chance to lose when the other side doesn't have this handicap. So when your win rate is 50% then with the what I call 'ladder snipping' it is the 70% of the other 50% to your 50% which is 85% + to other stuff which I said which helps too until the rank is so high it doesn't work any more. This is on the gain side.

On the other side you have players which are pressed down like me you get top stats after top stats but you are playing around in silver 3 and gold 1. Like I said if one of the points from 1-6 would be different this would be void but like this it is an exploit. Well you can say a weird one because it use so many shortcomings yes it is also a shortcoming of the player base using outdated or selfmade builds ans sticking to them but to go a bit deeper bots using them too from my experience with them. The finnal yes if everyone using it it would also made this void.