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What is with North Camp on Alpine BL


PrinceValentine.9320

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@"PrinceValentine.9320" said:It seems like it is the most treasured camp out of all camps and people will go defend it even when they are on a different BL. I'm just curious.

For someone whos "First in T1" your knowledge is pretty lacking.

North Camp red map included in the most important camp for a server for multiple reasons.

  1. Back when people truly cared about "winning" and server loyalty and politics. It was the only camp that supplied Garrison and the North towers. Which were considered the "Must" holds during any matchup.
  2. Because people truly cared about winning back then. Garrison was considered the most important keep on the map. Why? You may ask because it was your Main Home map keep. Because it was the "Most important Keep" it increased the value of the Camp.
  3. Why not Ne Camp or Nw Camp? Because roamers. Roamers/Havoc's back then played a real role allowing them to travel to camp to camp. Although roaming kinda still exist now its still not as big as it was. So because Roamers with out and about in decent numbers those camps were rarely owned by the Home server. (The distance from spawn/keeps)
  4. Like an OP said about it's easily secured but not for those reasons. 2 entrances and a close to the Home spawn.
  5. It was considered the Main Camp for supplying Garrison with supplies. Refer to 2.
  6. That being said years later that is still considered the "Most Important" Camp is a spillover of the past years. And for TRUE home defenders it was one CAMP that sought to be BEST one.

Of course, I may be missing a point here or there...Even someone like me gets lost in OH **** north camp needs to be defended. And I don't care about winning but what I do care about is AT least on home map Garrison needs a WP. This part is just a personal belief.

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It's hard to shake old reactions like it was mentioned, mostly because you might not be aware you're reacting.

It sucks to lose those yaks and have to get them going again after retake. Even if you're more about ppk than ppt, pushing supply along the lanes is handy for squads and roamers alike if not enough stuff is staying t3.

Citadel waypoint is always up and there's a chance to get there fast. Even if they take it you might get a couple of bags or you can read them a bit and see if they're just taking small stuff or prepping for a map queue push on something.

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It is the safest and easiest camp to approach and it always has a waypoint nearby which is also the map starting point for the home server. You don't even need some fancy high mobility elite roaming build to defend it. You just walk north past the waypoint while invulnerable and boom, there you are, north camp. Any home defender can defend it on pretty much any build. Also because its so easy to get to its a camp you don't have to win to defend just by yourself as you can count on more allies showing up to defend it, just stall. Another item is that its super far away from enemy spawns so if you kill them they are gone for a measurable amount of time. They arn't just graveyarding it and in fact you can graveyard defend it yourself as a home defender. Having the two little doorways for entrances and even walkways above them is just icing on the cake.

Truly a superb home defender favored camp and a testament to the original alpine borderland developer's rvr experience.

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I'm not sure if any of these fully answers the question though. We have people like north camp because it's easy mode to defend, and people like north camp because of some unwritten rules in days past.

The only real true purpose is the north towers, and those only matter if the enemy cares about trebbing garrison, which I don't see too often (usually they go water gate). Roamers have even more of an impact on north camp then as you don't have to take the camp, just hit the yaks--as they have to go way farther from north camp to garrison then from e/w camps. In fact e/w camps both supply two keeps to north camps one keep.

Truly winning would be defending your south camps. Then you spawn camp the enemy / hinder them from roaming in the first place, get the e/w keeps upgraded far faster and not have to worry about north camp at all because no one can get out of the south. If wp's are an issue, both e/w keeps can have those if they would actually get upgraded in the first place.

What's really baffling is n camp can be T3 and garri / north towers all T3 and people will still defend n camp over anything to the south. I think that, and wvw in general, has more to do with players concerned with skill and not wanting to be downed over any tactical reasoning.

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@Justine.6351 said:It is the safest and easiest camp to approach and it always has a waypoint nearby which is also the map starting point for the home server. You don't even need some fancy high mobility elite roaming build to defend it. You just walk north past the waypoint while invulnerable and boom, there you are, north camp. Any home defender can defend it on pretty much any build. Also because its so easy to get to its a camp you don't have to win to defend just by yourself as you can count on more allies showing up to defend it, just stall. Another item is that its super far away from enemy spawns so if you kill them they are gone for a measurable amount of time. They arn't just graveyarding it and in fact you can graveyard defend it yourself as a home defender. Having the two little doorways for entrances and even walkways above them is just icing on the cake.

Truly a superb home defender favored camp and a testament to the original alpine borderland developer's rvr experience.

This ^

It's a camp with a waypoint. People just defend it aggressively because there's nothing to obstruct them on the way to the camp and it's a 30 second walk back if they die.

You can capture it from behind objects as long as you're still in the ring. Personally, if I'm alone when I go for this camp, I hide behind something while waiting for the cap, and if I see anyone coming I make a run for it. It never feels worth it to fight people there to me unless with a group.

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North Camp in Alpine is a nice camp for a number of reasons:

  1. Easiest to defend from Citadel WP.
  2. Easiest to use traps to Mark enemies coming into camp due to choke points.
  3. Farthest from enemy spawn so losing a person is a major loss for your enemies.
  4. Required to feed supply into NET and NWT.
  5. With Watchtower NET/NWT a couple of roamers can mostly secure the entire north of the map, including feeding steady supplies into Garrison.
  6. NC can also be supported by defending NEC/NWC with roamers who can ensure intermittent yaks to Garrison while spotting roamers heading for NC.
  7. (Getting Garrison to T3 vastly improves that team's ability to control the map) and for roamers who prefer to stay south side to respawn or change sides of the map fast).

This is all to say that NC is something that smart players can defend to unlock roaming potential for their team on the map through securing the Garrison WP. It's the easiest way to get quality of life improvements to gameplay.

In reverse, it's also true that holding NC as an enemy roamer is a prestige target.

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@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Truly winning would be defending your south camps. Then you spawn camp the enemy / hinder them from roaming in the first place, get the e/w keeps upgraded far faster and not have to worry about north camp at all because no one can get out of the south. If wp's are an issue, both e/w keeps can have those if they would actually get upgraded in the first place.

Yep! It takes awhile to set up a good defense of southwest and southeast camps though since you need the T3 side keeps to get back quickly. Small groups that defend those camps from roamers can get a good number of bags.

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@Justine.6351 said:It is the safest and easiest camp to approach and it always has a waypoint nearby which is also the map starting point for the home server. You don't even need some fancy high mobility elite roaming build to defend it. You just walk north past the waypoint while invulnerable and boom, there you are, north camp. Any home defender can defend it on pretty much any build. Also because its so easy to get to its a camp you don't have to win to defend just by yourself as you can count on more allies showing up to defend it, just stall. Another item is that its super far away from enemy spawns so if you kill them they are gone for a measurable amount of time. They arn't just graveyarding it and in fact you can graveyard defend it yourself as a home defender. Having the two little doorways for entrances and even walkways above them is just icing on the cake.

Truly a superb home defender favored camp and a testament to the original alpine borderland developer's rvr experience.

This is honestly the real answer.It's the fastest, easiest way to win a fight.

In terms of PPT, map control, or content longevity... there are all better places to be, but you can pretty much immediately guarantee a win if it's contested and a quick retake if it's lost.

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Because it is the only one lifeblood of the 2 North Tower and Garri as well as proximity from spawn.Why is Garri important? Waypoint.Why is Garri Waypoint important? Center of the map.

All of this builds off the back of the Dolyaks from NNC.While NEC and NWC can also upgrade Garri, they are easily flipped due to how undefended they are.

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think the first response by @"QuickRain.4735" yet summed it up pretty well. sadly the competitive aspect was effectively destroyed, objectives are either hold bc it's comfy to hold them, or because people misunderstand the "point" system.

when u could earn ascended box rewards with Wvw tournaments (idk, 2012-2014? or so), ppt score had worth. nowadays, it's pretty weird to tryhard over objectives. u get nothing from it.(also back then, from my knowledge at least, u had to pay GOLD to upgrade your objectives. guess everyone here would still see them as more important if that was still the case.)

however, it pays off if enough enemies are there to farm, often the reports are far to unprecise, so u either come for a 5 people "blob", those might be even dead yet when u arrive, or u get ganked by 40 people because the reported only wrote nothing or "10+" (and decided to pew pew them alone instead of updating the report)

from here comes overall also the big misleading belief from new players. they think t1 is best, but it is equal to t5. most serious players don't even want to be in tier 1. the current EU t1 matchup is pretty dead as well. one server unlinked makes it effectively 2 different sized servers with different playtime primes to fight over 4 maps... eh.

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@QuickRain.4735 said:

@"PrinceValentine.9320" said:It seems like it is the most treasured camp out of all camps and people will go defend it even when they are on a different BL. I'm just curious.
  1. Back when people truly cared about "winning" and server loyalty and politics.

I'm not so sure about winning as such, but certainly a sense of community and doing what you can to help out. Not so much "server pride" either, before any of the clowns start spouting that old trope.

As others have said, NC is the best camp. It's also where the Orbs spawned. Something for you to Google.

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