Why do you allow condi revenant to exist in this state?

[Virdo.1540]

Dont facetank it like a bot. If u dont do that, u will see that condi revenant is in a terrible state right now. or just try it out yourself.

[ArchonWing.9480]

@"Spartacus.3192" said:And yet i haven't seen a single condi rev while roaming in NA T1 /T2 in months.its a constant plague of thieves and soulbeasts. So that makes me think the builds the thieves and soulbeasts are running could possibly be the current "braindead" flavor builds.

Yea I noticed most of them vanished and found power heralds more annoying.

Actually noticed much less condi builds running around in general. I wonder if it's because of the plague of small scale groups in NA bringing full supports to "roam" with them.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:Literally the most braindead build in all WvW.small input, it's not a wvw-build. once it gets to bigscale, u don't see much condirevs, bc they just don't do well there. it can maybe 1v3, but that's what several classes manage on the right situations.

[Shroud.2307]

@lodjur.1284 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@lodjur.1284 said:Herald is the issue.

Not condi rev. Not torment runes. Not trailblazer.

Dragon heal and True Nature - Demon (and to a lesser degree the defensive weapons) are the issues.Dragon heal isn't that much of a problem in long run, but I do agree with True Nature - Demon being pepe design which need changes.

Dragon heal is the strongest healing skill in the game.

Although I still believe that Trailblazer, Dire and many others sets need to be deleted, since they promote no effort builds with low risk-high reward gameplay.

The opposite. Torment runes are specifically only good in high risk situations. If people can't outdmg them when you're in melee that's not the rune being broken.

Id go as far as to say that there's barely any viable melee builds without a torment rune style effect for group fights. Such as impact savant, ps, ip, se etc. Because there has to be a reward for going melee, or there's no reason to not just play ranged.

Trailblazer is needed for condi to be a thing and condi rev burst is predictable and slow and leaves the option to clear. True nature doesn't.

Torment runes and other runes need an icd that's for sure.Let's get rid of a root problems instead of just trimming branches of the most problematic stuff.

These things aren't even issues. Condi rev/ren can reasonably be focused down in group fights (and torment ja obviously mediocre in 1v1).

The parts that make herald low risk aren't trailblazer, it isn't tormenting runes.

It's having a 3 sec invuln with big upside for a heal together with multiple blocks and resistance. These are very mechanics, torment runes are one of the games few actual high risk high reward mechanics.

@KrHome.1920 said:It is tormenting rune. I have no issuses countering condi revs that dont use the rune - neither 1v1 and nor smallscale.

If the rune does anything against you 1v1,you were already losing....

1v1 it's probably not even the best option that condi rev has...

It's also a no brainer that it is preferable to rework a rune that causes problems on one single class and damage type (and that is even sub par for other classes) in a way that it does not break this specific class anymore. Why on earth would you touch the class itself, if all you need to do to get things in line is doing a tweak on a rune?

Cause the rune is a lot more interesting and leads to healthy gameplay as opposed to the mess that is a bunch of invulns to press when you play poorly to never get punished?

If you want to abuse this thread for infuse light nerf demands: you are missing the point.

Nah, we just know how the class works.

Tell me though, why should infuse light be so many times better than even the second best healing skill?

Rev gets 2 healing skills cause they're supposed to be worse than other healing skills.

Compared Infuse Light to Defiant stance (same duration (now that the stance trait isn't popular), same cd, same casttime).

Now compare Soothing Stone to Mending. (roughly same heal, 30 vs 16 sec cd (always traited).

Now note that defiant stance is in group fights generally considered stronger than mending.

Compare Mallyx heal to consume conditions or bear stance or whatever and it will look similar. Rev heals are supposed to be weak in comparison.

It's hardly like it's difficult to guess that infuse light has always been beyond broken (and a carry skill) just by some easy comparisons.

Now think then that a very very vast majority of condi revs pick up herald. A traitline that gives you exactly 3 things.

A mediocre dmg skill

A super broken transfer

A hilariously broken heal

The later 2 is exactly what makes heralds horrible to fight and what makes it easy mode. If herald got nuked, I'd reckon we'd not even see a fifth of the people playing it swapping to core or ren, because these are actually hard builds. Nerf staff/Shield and the numbers would be even lower.

Ah, always refreshing to see some actual logic on these forums.

Although I don't fully agree with your thoughts on Tormenting runes, I definitely do agree that they're much less of an issue than some people think. I don't think it is entirely okay to be able to heal such large amounts just from a rune, because depending on the build (not strictly talking Rev here) you can become astoundingly tanky with enough targets to hit. I have a Scourge build that is 100% offensive with nothing invested in Corrupts or Barrier, but I can facetank a lot of people at once if I play aggressive because of Parasitic Contagion and Torment runes. The two together give me a huge amount of sustain.

I feel reducing the healing per Torment applied would be good enough. An ICD seems to limiting to me because only a couple things can take advantage of such rapid Torment application while the others will struggle. And it isn't the runes that should be targeted, but the traits/skills instead.

Also I just want to add, as far as I can recall, Defiant Stance is effected by Poison. You will get reduced healing on incoming damage if you're Poisoned. Infuse Light does not do that.

[Yasai.3549]

Condi Rev may be brain dead, but its effectiveness only extends to how knowledgeable their opponent is.If their opponent knows how to approach a Condi rev, Condi revs are actually not too bad, especially when compared to roaming powerhouses like MM Reapers or Core Necros.

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:small input, it's not a wvw-build. once it gets to bigscale, u don't see much condirevs, bc they just don't do well there. it can maybe 1v3, but that's what several classes manage on the right situations.

It's a viable roaming and havoc build.In fact, it's extremely strong in small scale fights because the number of players fighting usually allow Condi Rev to actually get a decent heal off using Infuse Light due to lack of coordination.

The reason why it is never brought to largescale zerg fights are because its main condition outputs, Torment and Burning, can be Boon converted by enemy Scrappers into Might and Aegis respectively, which is a huge no-no.

[Doug.4930]

@Yasai.3549 said:Condi Rev may be brain dead, but its effectiveness only extends to how knowledgeable their opponent is.

Yea but that logic can be applied to every class/build in the game.

If their opponent knows how to approach a Condi rev, Condi revs are actually not too bad, especially when compared to roaming powerhouses like MM Reapers or Core Necros.

This comment seems to imply that MM and reapers/core necros are anywhere near comparable to condi heralds in effectiveness for roaming. I would rather 2v1 a core and reaper necros than 1v1 a condi herald.

Condi herald is the standout in the crowd right now for winning fights when roaming. Other classes outshine it in other areas such as mobility. But if you want the most meta build that makes everything die and has no real counter other than out-skilling them by a substantial amount, then condi herald is what you run.

[Voltekka.2375]

I see condiheralds daily. Not exaggerating, small scale roaming or solo roaming 9 out of 10 heralds are condi. I have a 50/50 winrate on blood reaper but on ele, oh boy, i cant run fast enough... Any recommendations are welcome

[Voltekka.2375]

@Yasai.3549 said:Condi Rev may be brain dead, but its effectiveness only extends to how knowledgeable their opponent is.If their opponent knows how to approach a Condi rev, Condi revs are actually not too bad, especially when compared to roaming powerhouses like MM Reapers or Core Necros.

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:small input, it's not a wvw-build. once it gets to bigscale, u don't see much condirevs, bc they just don't do well there. it can maybe 1v3, but that's what several classes manage on the right situations.

It's a viable roaming and havoc build.In fact, it's extremely strong in small scale fights because the number of players fighting usually allow Condi Rev to actually get a decent heal off using Infuse Light due to lack of coordination.

The reason why it is never brought to largescale zerg fights are because its main condition outputs, Torment and Burning, can be Boon converted by enemy Scrappers into Might and Aegis respectively, which is a huge no-no.

How do you even win against condiheralds with MM reaper? Genuinely interested.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Maybe I'm missing something... but why is MM Reaper being called good?...No mobility or utility really and it depends on you either standing still trying to out-stat-check it or just not having cleave or CC.

It's easymode but I've never really seen an appeal.

[corwin.8356]

Everything is Rock Paper Scissors. Condi Ren is horrid against certain classes.

[Kuma.1503]

Whenever I see one I just refuse to interact with them.

What are they gonna do? Walk angrily in my direction?

[PPT.3086]

Some classes and builds counter others, imagine crying about condi rev lmfao. dillusional

[Whiteout.1975]

Because you still would have lost to population imbalance.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

This approach to balancing is a problem. Certain builds are fine being strong in certain settings. WvW is inherently unbalanced and attempting to balance it (especially balancing around small scale) usually just nukes classes/weapons/traitlines from orbit entirely, never to be seen again

Condi Herald is:Good in 1v1, but has clear countersGreat in Small Scale, especially with an organized group and/or against unorganized groupsAtrocious in Zerg Fights, especially organized zerg fights, just like nearly every condi class

This to me is balanced. It's not overperforming overall and it's, more importantly, not overperforming in WvW Zerg fights, which is what the mode is (mostly) balanced around.

If Condi Herald (and Condi in general) isn't allowed to be good in 1v1/uncoordinated small group fights, where is it allowed to be good in WvW? Because condi is certainly not good against any sort of organized group with a support and/or big zergs

[Voltekka.2375]

@"LucianTheAngelic.7054" said:This approach to balancing is a problem. Certain builds are fine being strong in certain settings. WvW is inherently unbalanced and attempting to balance it (especially balancing around small scale) usually just nukes classes/weapons/traitlines from orbit entirely, never to be seen again

Condi Herald is:Good in 1v1, but has clear countersGreat in Small Scale, especially with an organized group and/or against unorganized groupsAtrocious in Zerg Fights, especially organized zerg fights, just like nearly every condi class

This to me is balanced. It's not overperforming overall and it's, more importantly, not overperforming in WvW Zerg fights, which is what the mode is (mostly) balanced around.

If Condi Herald (and Condi in general) isn't allowed to be good in 1v1/uncoordinated small group fights, where is it allowed to be good in WvW? Because condi is certainly not good against any sort of organized group with a support and/or big zergs

Two wrongs dont make a right. The fact that power is still meta doesnt mean that condiherald should be THAT strong in smallscale. "Its not overperforming overall" well, tempest wasnt overperforming in any scenario, smallscale or zerging, but it still got the nerfhammer.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@"PPT.3086" said:Some classes and builds counter others, imagine crying about condi rev lmfao. dillusional

No other class the absurd combination of sustain AND burst damage that revenant has, on both condi and power. The class has been broken for nearly the entirety of its existence; there's almost nothing it doesn't do:

• good CC
• great sustain
• best burst in the game
• good/great mobility
• utility and buffs

How did the meme-worthy saying go, again? "Best players tend to play revenant, that's why the class performs so good" KEKW. It never quite occurred to me how people could keep on complaining about thief while ignoring herald.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

It's mid april 2021 and first reports of condi rev being broken was like over a year ago, so why that thing still isn't deleted from the game yet? Also nerfs to damage to power herald would be nice in WvW as well, since it's a bit too much with how much pressure it generates./Ressing this topic because that thing(c-rev) still need deletion/

[Zizou.2358]

Learn to play instead of crying

[Aeolus.3615]

its actually weaker than before :P before t he damage nerfs was just overshadowed by damage creep builds

[Lonewolf Kai.3682]

Lol, sure it’s broken: you can’t play condi Rev in zergs. You end up helping the enemy as a condi Rev, not your own team.

[Neukku.5713]

Rev main with thousands of hours in smallscale wvw. Playing condi rev when heavily outnumbered and transfers can instantly melt weaker groups. With good game knowledge and right build it can fight 1:5. That is just stupid. I can make a big list of problems, but thats just waste of time because anet simply dont care about this game mode.

Until then have fun with your 5k torment ticks.

[Strider.7849]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:Condi rev is not broken. It's the tormenting rune which gives it absurd sustain combined with trailblazer or dire gear. This rune buffs the rev's damage and at the same time heals for more than its 2 heals combined.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Tormenting

Remove this rune or rework the 6th bonus and condi rev becomes a a far less threat. Basically every condi rev in wvw uses this rune (that's why it costs 8 gold - it's more demanded than speed rune!). It's easy to spot as the regeneration it grants is almost on warrior regeneration levels - and warrior has regeneration as class mechanic.

@"Spartacus.3192" said:And yet i haven't seen a single condi rev while roaming in NA T1 /T2 in months.its a constant plague of thieves and soulbeasts. So that makes me think the builds the thieves and soulbeasts are running could possibly be the current "braindead" flavor builds.It's a smallscale plague that combined with a support wins every attrition fight with brainless button mashing. Put 10 torment on the target: 1700 healing. And a rev can apply a lot more than 10 torment. The scaling is absurd.

1v1 you can cut the effect of the rune by avoiding the torment application. But it's still pretty strong.

This. It's way too tanky for the amount of pressure it brings to the table, particularly in duos. Unless you can pull off consistent ranged pressure à la soulbeast, you're not killing them - even if you outskill the player.

It counters soulbeast.

[Strider.7849]

@Neukku.5713 said:Rev main with thousands of hours in smallscale wvw. Playing condi rev when heavily outnumbered and transfers can instantly melt weaker groups. With good game knowledge and right build it can fight 1:5. That is just stupid. I can make a big list of problems, but thats just waste of time because anet simply dont care about this game mode.

Until then have fun with your 5k torment ticks.

The best way to fight them is with corrupts/boon removal and CC locking them. If between yourself and your group you can pull that off, they aren't too bad to fight. I can beat them in 1v1 with scourge no problem ONLY if they aren't abusing axe offhand + mallyx leap spamming (it's the only way it can really win against a competent scourge).

[Zizou.2358]

@Neukku.5713 said:Rev main with thousands of hours in smallscale wvw. Playing condi rev when heavily outnumbered and transfers can instantly melt weaker groups. With good game knowledge and right build it can fight 1:5. That is just stupid. I can make a big list of problems, but thats just waste of time because anet simply dont care about this game mode.

Until then have fun with your 5k torment ticks.

Good for us, rev mains hyhy.Thank you anet.

[Widmo.3186]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:It's mid april 2021 and first reports of condi rev being broken was like over a year ago, so why that thing still isn't deleted from the game yet? Also nerfs to damage to power herald would be nice in WvW as well, since it's a bit too much with how much pressure it generates./Ressing this topic because that thing(c-rev) still need deletion/

Simple reminder - how long did it take to 'adjust' mirage or holo? Or in small terms spellbroken/boonbeast etc.Dont expect anything from this company, except milking players.