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PvP and Bots scene


Sunit.1698

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Why isn't arenanet doing anything about the bots scene dominating sPvP this season? I have been playing pvp for long and yes, bots were there since ages but this season it just seems to be a bot fest off hours. I usually play off hours and I have had 2 games in a row where everyone except me and 1 other person were bots.

I can post a picture here with screen names and you can see that these people have had about 800-1200 games just this season but I know that is against the rules. However at this point I have no clue what to do for arenanet to actually take any sort of action on botting and hacking. This is not the first time, I have been reporting the same people for about 2-3 seasons now and they are still botting. Arenanet recently made a post saying that every report is checked by people, is it a joke? I have been reporting these people for ages, why are they still around botting?

The neglect for the mode is disgusting, seriously do something, anything, because at this point I think I should totally give up on the mode because I can't play around reset and every match I play has at least 4-5 bots.

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I don't know if there are all that many bots, a lot of them are just PvE players. I always ask people if they are a bot before I report them no matter how bad they're playing, and I almost always get a sarcastic or sincere response. So frankly I think the issue might be more that PvP is pulling in a boatload of really bad players who are only there for the rewards. The nice thing would be for Anet to nerf rewards for people who lose.

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@Huskyboy.1053 said:I don't know if there are all that many bots, a lot of them are just PvE players. I always ask people if they are a bot before I report them no matter how bad they're playing, and I almost always get a sarcastic or sincere response. So frankly I think the issue might be more that PvP is pulling in a boatload of really bad players who are only there for the rewards. The nice thing would be for Anet to nerf rewards for people who lose.

They are bots, I'm serious. You probably play around reset where I don't find that many. I play OCX time on weekdays and every match has at least 4-5 bots. And that's the least, may be more if the time clashes with any metas like auric basin or TD.

I know for certain because they all move on the same line, will go to same places together, always have offline statue.

They aren't bad when it comes to skills rotation. Trust me I have seen mirage bots who would attack you within 0.1 sec the moment you come out of stealth even if you are behind them. They are bots right..they beat human reaction speed. But map rotation or in general if you stand on a kite spot they will be stuck.

The reason I am posting in forums because it has really been a bot fiesta off hours this season and it's not just new accounts. I see players with titles like LNHB who just run offline and have set up bots to farm ranked off hours. You can tell they are botting because they would all move in the same line together apart from combat, all match long.

As I said, I can post names here. All these accounts have 800-1200 games this season. So they are either botting or sleeping during queues.

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@Sunit.1698 said:

@Huskyboy.1053 said:I don't know if there are all that many bots, a lot of them are just PvE players. I always ask people if they are a bot before I report them no matter how bad they're playing, and I almost always get a sarcastic or sincere response. So frankly I think the issue might be more that PvP is pulling in a boatload of really bad players who are only there for the rewards. The nice thing would be for Anet to nerf rewards for people who lose.

They are bots, I'm serious. You probably play around reset where I don't find that many. I play OCX time on weekdays and every match has at least 4-5 bots. And that's the least, may be more if the time clashes with any metas like auric basin or TD.

I know for certain because they all move on the same line, will go to same places together, always have offline statue.

They aren't bad when it comes to skills rotation. Trust me I have seen mirage bots who would attack you within 0.1 sec the moment you come out of stealth even if you are behind them. They are bots right..they beat human reaction speed. But map rotation or in general if you stand on a kite spot they will be stuck.

The reason I am posting in forums because it has really been a bot fiesta off hours this season and it's not just new accounts. I see players with titles like LNHB who just run offline and have set up bots to farm ranked off hours. You can tell they are botting because they would all move in the same line together apart from combat, all match long.

As I said, I can post names here. All these accounts have 800-1200 games this season. So they are either botting or sleeping during queues.

The bot fiesta is 24/7 but in peak hours you get 1 or 2 of them in off hours when not much real players left you can get full team of them, and there is one in particular on EU that i puted years ago in flist to check their rating because it was the most awful ward that i never encountered, after that they ran during a lot of time a scrapper and now mirage its a near 40K AP acount and all this time he ended seasons with more than 2K games, abd i susspect that not just he uses bots in PvP also in races an event races he appears alwais in top spots with insane low times

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@Nikola.3841 said:You really think they're so sophisticated that they can sense other players around and fight accordingly?

they can detect players,? yes they can, is that they dothey can fight acordingly? no, they can spam closed rotations, because this and macros classes that can live in a perfect closed rotation are bad for pvp(they enable bots and can carry players without have to think when is better to use skills untill the level where players have suficient knowledge of classes to read entirely enemy and suficient reflexes to xploit windows of oportunitty between skills(that is far away from the skill level of the rotation spammer)

bots have a programed path with a few conditional desicions, one of them is if there is an enemy player in a determinate range, if they detect one

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@Huskyboy.1053 said:I don't know if there are all that many bots, a lot of them are just PvE players. I always ask people if they are a bot before I report them no matter how bad they're playing, and I almost always get a sarcastic or sincere response. So frankly I think the issue might be more that PvP is pulling in a boatload of really bad players who are only there for the rewards. The nice thing would be for Anet to nerf rewards for people who lose.

I can send a ss of my friendlist on leaderboards, and you will see how many of them have now 1300-1400 games. Then you do your math and see they playing at least 14h/day every single day since season started, which is highly unlikely for human capabilities.

Today i got one of those in my stream, it couldnt turn around a leave a corner in the map.

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@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Huskyboy.1053 said:I don't know if there are all that many bots, a lot of them are just PvE players. I always ask people if they are a bot before I report them no matter how bad they're playing, and I almost always get a sarcastic or sincere response. So frankly I think the issue might be more that PvP is pulling in a boatload of really bad players who are only there for the rewards. The nice thing would be for Anet to nerf rewards for people who lose.

I can send a ss of my friendlist on leaderboards, and you will see how many of them have now 1300-1400 games. Then you do your math and see they playing at least 14h/day every single day since season started, which is highly unlikely for human capabilities.

Today i got one of those in my stream, it couldnt turn around a leave a corner in the map.

Stronlo can do that amount! ?

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The question is, if you remove all bots from sPVP, how many real players are left? I just try to understand it logically somehow. As a programmer, I'm 100% sure that bots can be completely removed from sPVP. But the fact that bots have been in sPVP for years, as if they were welcome guests. I mean, nothing is done against bots in sPVP. So I could really imagine that Anet leaves the bots in, because without them the population would decrease too much, which ultimately leads to longer queues or even to endless queues, and a completely dead game. But the big problem with this theory is that it would then even be likely that the bots could even come from Anet themselves.

Complot or fact, we'll never know! But the bot problem has been around for how many years without any solution? Normally, these problems should always be in focus of a company as these are guests who consume resources without paying rent and in doing so they usually even make potential paying customers unhappy. From a purely logical point of view, there must be a reason for this permanent problem, and no, ignorance won't be the reason.

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@Sileeent.5861 said:The question is, if you remove all bots from sPVP, how many real players are left? I just try to understand it logically somehow. As a programmer, I'm 100% sure that bots can be completely removed from sPVP. But the fact that bots have been in sPVP for years, as if they were welcome guests. I mean, nothing is done against bots in sPVP. So I could really imagine that Anet leaves the bots in, because without them the population would decrease too much, which ultimately leads to longer queues or even to endless queues, and a completely dead game. But the big problem with this theory is that it would then even be likely that the bots could even come from Anet themselves.

Complot or fact, we'll never know! But the bot problem has been around for how many years without any solution? Normally, these problems should always be in focus of a company as these are guests who consume resources without paying rent and in doing so they usually even make potential paying customers unhappy. From a purely logical point of view, there must be a reason for this permanent problem, and no, ignorance won't be the reason.

At some point you get to this conclusion, bots now the pop is even lower are very easy to identify.

Number of matches, most of them are scourges, there is a few builds they play, and all bots play like the same 5 builds, axe staff mirage, condi scourge, hammer guardian, hammer warrior.

In 2v2s devs would just have to lower their rating to silver and queue up as double scourge, and they would pull at least one of those bots 100% chance and watch they stand still once timer reaches 0

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@Sunit.1698 said:Why isn't arenanet doing anything about the bots scene dominating sPvP this season? I have been playing pvp for long and yes, bots were there since ages but this season it just seems to be a bot fest off hours. I usually play off hours and I have had 2 games in a row where everyone except me and 1 other person were bots.

I can post a picture here with screen names and you can see that these people have had about 800-1200 games just this season but I know that is against the rules. However at this point I have no clue what to do for arenanet to actually take any sort of action on botting and hacking. This is not the first time, I have been reporting the same people for about 2-3 seasons now and they are still botting. Arenanet recently made a post saying that every report is checked by people, is it a joke? I have been reporting these people for ages, why are they still around botting?

The neglect for the mode is disgusting, seriously do something, anything, because at this point I think I should totally give up on the mode because I can't play around reset and every match I play has at least 4-5 bots.

Well its not that hard to imagine why there are bots farming 24/7 since early seasons with tens of thousands reports on their backs.I will give you a hint the botting tool isnt free.

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@"Sileeent.5861" said:The question is, if you remove all bots from sPVP, how many real players are left? I just try to understand it logically somehow. As a programmer, I'm 100% sure that bots can be completely removed from sPVP. But the fact that bots have been in sPVP for years, as if they were welcome guests. I mean, nothing is done against bots in sPVP. So I could really imagine that Anet leaves the bots in, because without them the population would decrease too much, which ultimately leads to longer queues or even to endless queues, and a completely dead game. But the big problem with this theory is that it would then even be likely that the bots could even come from Anet themselves.

Complot or fact, we'll never know! But the bot problem has been around for how many years without any solution? Normally, these problems should always be in focus of a company as these are guests who consume resources without paying rent and in doing so they usually even make potential paying customers unhappy. From a purely logical point of view, there must be a reason for this permanent problem, and no, ignorance won't be the reason.

The number of players would be less and probably too low at off hours. True. But the games may be better and you actually enjoy pvp.

I started playing pvp about 3 n 1/2 years back when I was ranked gold 1 my first season, my play times were same and yet there were less bots and the games were fun. Or maybe i had no clue of bots or how to recognize them then. For past 2 seasons or so whenever I play half of them are bots.

I may be wrong and not get what you're saying correctly, but I think you're confusing bots with programs or accounts which just play pvp etcNo, these are real accounts by people, they use botting program to just queue ranked and play while afk. The bot program queues and just keeps farming ranked rewards. This is the reason I said that i am seeing players with LNHB title and megilandil mentioned he saw person with 40k AP botting. Why would arenanet put bots with this much AP or titles if it was just to balance the pvp queues? In fact I saw a person with "the key of adhashim" title. That is no bot program, it is a human playing at times and utilizing the account and then setting up a bot program to queue and farm ranked games. I reported him...but I know arenanet would not do anything about it.

Other than that do you think it's fair that these people farm afk and get all the mats and stuff at the same time ruining the game for legit players like me in ranked?

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@georgessj.4198 said:

@Sunit.1698 said:Why isn't arenanet doing anything about the bots scene dominating sPvP this season? I have been playing pvp for long and yes, bots were there since ages but this season it just seems to be a bot fest off hours. I usually play off hours and I have had 2 games in a row where everyone except me and 1 other person were bots.

I can post a picture here with screen names and you can see that these people have had about 800-1200 games just this season but I know that is against the rules. However at this point I have no clue what to do for arenanet to actually take any sort of action on botting and hacking. This is not the first time, I have been reporting the same people for about 2-3 seasons now and they are still botting. Arenanet recently made a post saying that every report is checked by people, is it a joke? I have been reporting these people for ages, why are they still around botting?

The neglect for the mode is disgusting, seriously do something, anything, because at this point I think I should totally give up on the mode because I can't play around reset and every match I play has at least 4-5 bots.

Well its not that hard to imagine why there are bots farming 24/7 since early seasons with tens of thousands reports on their backs.I will give you a hint the botting tool isnt free.

I dunno, but even after all the neglect and my reports leading to nothing I don't want to believe that the real reason arenanet isn't banning players from botting is that they are the ones selling botting tool.

If that gets confirmed I'm quitting this game.

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@Huskyboy.1053 said:I don't know if there are all that many bots, a lot of them are just PvE players. I always ask people if they are a bot before I report them no matter how bad they're playing, and I almost always get a sarcastic or sincere response. So frankly I think the issue might be more that PvP is pulling in a boatload of really bad players who are only there for the rewards. The nice thing would be for Anet to nerf rewards for people who lose.

dude, there is actually someone who has numbered their bot accounts.

there are a ton, an imaginary electron ton, of bots....perhaps if we could weigh all the electrons it takes to generate the pixels necessary to render the bots in the game, it would actually be a ton.

how much is a ton? (us ton)

2000lbs

How much does an electron weigh?

Electron is 9.05 x 10-28 grams

How many electrons in 1 ton?

The answer is 9.9587956680267E+32

While that is a bit of an overestimation of how many bots there are in the game, it is not that far off of a figure.

/s for the goobs about to try and math me

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@Huskyboy.1053 said:I don't know if there are all that many bots, a lot of them are just PvE players.

As the OP specified, these are players with 1000+ games in a single ranked league season. He is very clearly and obviously not talking about casual players who aren't very good. Bots usually have the ability to /whisper them turned off as well, so it's not like you can ask them if they're bots either.

@Sunit.1698 said:Why isn't arenanet doing anything about the bots scene dominating sPvP this season?The neglect for the mode is disgusting, seriously do something, anything, because at this point I think I should totally give up on the mode because I can't play around reset and every match I play has at least 4-5 bots.

They made a post about a month ago claiming they were working on it and to just keep using the in-game report function- if they were to give us an updated timeline on when they will start rectifying the issue it would probably make a lot of us feel a lot more positive.

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@"Sunit.1698" said:Arenanet recently made a post saying that every report is checked by people, is it a joke? I have been reporting these people for ages, why are they still around botting?

Yeah, no, that's impossible...Imagine that anet receives maybe 10000 reports each day (I have no idea about the actual number, I myself create a few every day for botting and PvP AFK abuse).Let's say that an agent requires... THREE minutes to investigate each report. That's 30000 minutes spent on working. Let's say the value of one FTE (Full Time Employee) is 300 minutes worked per day. Then you need to hire 100 people just for the reports. They cost salary, IT equipment, taxes, etc. A colossal amount of money. That's just dumb.

The automatized system is even worse for many reasons I don't want to go into here.

There is a very easy and perfect solution:Let people buy "report tokens". 1 token = 1 EUR = you can file one report, and you can be sure that an agent will actually look at your report. Every report token will buy you around 0.75 EUR worth of gems, but if your report was valid, for example, the player you reported was trying to recreate the 3rd Reich on the global chat, or he was botting, or AFKing in a series of PVP matches in order to gain the pvp track rewards, then you get another 0.75 EUR worth of gems, and a notification about the action taken against the player.

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@"Huskyboy.1053" said:I don't know if there are all that many bots, a lot of them are just PvE players. I always ask people if they are a bot before I report them no matter how bad they're playing, and I almost always get a sarcastic or sincere response. So frankly I think the issue might be more that PvP is pulling in a boatload of really bad players who are only there for the rewards. The nice thing would be for Anet to nerf rewards for people who lose.

Or match people of equally bad skill level together... Just sayin'.......

If this were really the case and the elo system ACTUALLY worked, everyone should still have at least a 50/50 win rate. But that doesn't happen in practice, people notice the bad players when they have bad loss streaks. I had some A-hole I called out for manipulation say something like "It's NA lol" and another say "Free leggies lol"

When the reality is you progress 3x faster by winning on leggies and cash, that's why people cheat. I say the opposite: nerf rewards for winning, tie increases to participation like WvW, and whenever someone is caught cheating, nerf the hell out of their rank rewards. That way, no one has an incentive to cheat.

I think the real issues are:1) Bad elo system/matchmaker2) Manipulation3) Population4) Cheating

In that order. If there was less crap, I'd still be playing this game mode, but the reality is people are cheating and they are NEVER punished anywhere severely enough to actually stop it. And what's this crap of having F2P accounts in ranked? I'm sorry, but I think that's stupid. There's literally no cost to making a smurf account to throw your direction. And all you need is 2 separate AIs: a good bot for when it's on your team, a bad bot for when it's not.

On #4 I've seen footage of people cheating -> Using move hacks, and then you have WP's description where they found a way to unnaturally inject game mechanics to their favor, so it'd be even harder to detect.

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@Sunit.1698 said:

@Huskyboy.1053 said:I don't know if there are all that many bots, a lot of them are just PvE players. I always ask people if they are a bot before I report them no matter how bad they're playing, and I almost always get a sarcastic or sincere response. So frankly I think the issue might be more that PvP is pulling in a boatload of really bad players who are only there for the rewards. The nice thing would be for Anet to nerf rewards for people who lose.

They are bots, I'm serious. You probably play around reset where I don't find that many. I play OCX time on weekdays and every match has at least 4-5 bots. And that's the least, may be more if the time clashes with any metas like auric basin or TD.

It's a mixture of both honestly. I'm in a bunch of PvE guilds and we always point people to Ranked PvP as the best gold per hour in the game especially if you sprinkle in other dailies with it.

Bots are programmed with this in mind too. It's why you'll find them in Ranked, but little to none in Unranked.

Like they said, nerfing or removing the rewards for losing in Ranked is actually the best way to get rid of both bots and bot-like players.The bots will move on to something more profitable that also requires little effort.The bot-like players will either try to improve, or leave for the same reason.

Could also buff the rewards for actually winning and doing well in Ranked, while participation awards belong in Unranked if anywhere at all.

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@Sileeent.5861 said:The question is, if you remove all bots from sPVP, how many real players are left? I just try to understand it logically somehow. As a programmer, I'm 100% sure that bots can be completely removed from sPVP. But the fact that bots have been in sPVP for years, as if they were welcome guests. I mean, nothing is done against bots in sPVP. So I could really imagine that Anet leaves the bots in, because without them the population would decrease too much, which ultimately leads to longer queues or even to endless queues, and a completely dead game. But the big problem with this theory is that it would then even be likely that the bots could even come from Anet themselves.

Complot or fact, we'll never know! But the bot problem has been around for how many years without any solution? Normally, these problems should always be in focus of a company as these are guests who consume resources without paying rent and in doing so they usually even make potential paying customers unhappy. From a purely logical point of view, there must be a reason for this permanent problem, and no, ignorance won't be the reason.

No, because then it becomes which ever team has the more bots loses. If the population is that scarce that killing off the bot population will kill the mode, then the mode was never alive to begin with and the bots are just inflating the economy.

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@Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

@Huskyboy.1053 said:I don't know if there are all that many bots, a lot of them are just PvE players. I always ask people if they are a bot before I report them no matter how bad they're playing, and I almost always get a sarcastic or sincere response. So frankly I think the issue might be more that PvP is pulling in a boatload of really bad players who are only there for the rewards. The nice thing would be for Anet to nerf rewards for people who lose.

They are bots, I'm serious. You probably play around reset where I don't find that many. I play OCX time on weekdays and every match has at least 4-5 bots. And that's the least, may be more if the time clashes with any metas like auric basin or TD.

It's a mixture of both honestly. I'm in a bunch of PvE guilds and we always point people to Ranked PvP as the best gold per hour in the game especially if you sprinkle in other dailies with it.

Just climb the fractal ladder, losing in SpVP IS NOT more efficient than doing just about any meta and/or fractals. Just selling the mats of even the worst LW metas is probably more efficient than 3/pips per game, especially if you're a filthy casual and can't finish the track that season.

Bots are programmed with this in mind too. It's why you'll find them in Ranked, but little to none in Unranked.

Well botting anything is free money. bots basically give players infinite time to earn things. Even if the returns are bad, it's still worth it if you don't have to do anything. it's free money.

Like they said, nerfing or removing the rewards for losing in Ranked is actually the best way to get rid of both bots and bot-like players.

No, people are cheating. I think that's the real problem. Maybe the matchmaker is bad. Hypothetically if there's a large enough population and a decent elo system, people should be hitting 50% win rates and these streaks of losses wouldn't happen that cause people to get so upset. The REAL issue is manipulation and if wins are more incentivized, you'll see more of it.

Could also buff the rewards for actually winning and doing well in Ranked, while participation awards belong in Unranked if anywhere at all.

You think 3x the pips isn't worth it?

Modern bots in WoW are far more effective than human players, and if someone implemented one in GW2 they'd probably have a ridiculous win rate. This game has such a high skill cap, you're basically telling noobs to try the game mode and waste their time and maybe encouraging pro botting. It'll completely destroy the population, not just the bot population.

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@TheDestroyer.4701 said:

@"Sunit.1698" said:Arenanet recently made a post saying that every report is checked by people, is it a joke? I have been reporting these people for ages, why are they still around botting?

Yeah, no, that's impossible...Imagine that anet receives maybe 10000 reports each day (I have no idea about the actual number, I myself create a few every day for botting and PvP AFK abuse).Let's say that an agent requires... THREE minutes to investigate each report. That's 30000 minutes spent on working. Let's say the value of one FTE (Full Time Employee) is 300 minutes worked per day. Then you need to hire 100 people just for the reports. They cost salary, IT equipment, taxes, etc. A colossal amount of money. That's just dumb.

The automatized system is even worse for many reasons I don't want to go into here.

There is a very easy and perfect solution:Let people buy "report tokens". 1 token = 1 EUR = you can file one report, and you can be sure that an agent will actually look at your report. Every report token will buy you around 0.75 EUR worth of gems, but if your report was valid, for example, the player you reported was trying to recreate the 3rd Reich on the global chat, or he was botting, or AFKing in a series of PVP matches in order to gain the pvp track rewards, then you get another 0.75 EUR worth of gems, and a notification about the action taken against the player.

What a wonderful idea. What's next?? Let people buy "Fractal tokens", "WvWvW tokens" etc. 1 token = 1 EUR yeah."Dreaming of Bifrost??? 10 tokens!!!! Only in token store this week!" -nice tagline .For 20 tokens support team will kill all your enemies

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@Firebeard.1746 said:Just climb the fractal ladder, losing in SpVP IS NOT more efficient than doing just about any meta and/or fractals. Just selling the mats of even the worst LW metas is probably more efficient than 3/pips per game, especially if you're a filthy casual and can't finish the track that season.Well botting anything is free money. bots basically give players infinite time to earn things. Even if the returns are bad, it's still worth it if you don't have to do anything. it's free money.

I honestly don't know what you mean. It's just one of, if not the best way to get gold with little-no sorts of limitations/diminishing returns. You could really grind it all day if you hated yourself enough, or if you were literally inhuman(AKA bot) Maybe not the best g per hour, but it certainly isn't trash money by any means, and like you say; for minimal effort, which is perfect for bots.

No, people are cheating. I think that's the real problem. Maybe the matchmaker is bad. Hypothetically if there's a large enough population and a decent elo system, people should be hitting 50% win rates and these streaks of losses wouldn't happen that cause people to get so upset. The REAL issue is manipulation and if wins are more incentivized, you'll see more of it.

I'm not saying that people aren't. I was just trying to stick to the topic.

Match manipulation is an issue, but if winning gave more pips and losing gave no pips I don't feel like that would have any sort of effect on Match Manipulation. The high-rated players that actually do that aren't doing it for the gold from pip chests. They're doing it for titles and high leaderboard spots that will boost the value of their account in terms of real money. That, or for clout. Nobody is match manipulating for pips/gold from games.

The incentive is already there, and DuoQ's made it 60-IQ easy to do anyway.

You think 3x the pips isn't worth it?

I don't know where this number is coming from.If the pips gain for winning was even doubled, if you got 0 as a base gain for losses, it would still probably be an overall loss in gold per hour for a bot with a slightly below average winrate or a player barely trying and pulling about the same amount of wins.

I'm too lazy to do the actual math, but if you want me to, i'll try.

Modern bots in WoW are far more effective than human players, and if someone implemented one in GW2 they'd probably have a ridiculous win rate. This game has such a high skill cap, you're basically telling noobs to try the game mode and waste their time and maybe encouraging pro botting. It'll completely destroy the population, not just the bot population.

Why should we assume something like that is going to happen when it hasn't happened already? Literally nothing stopping anyone from making a bot like that right now or at any other point before now.

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