Will we ever get respect from Anet? Or Thief just doesnt deserve it?

[Carnifex.3275]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Turk.5460" said:I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

wvw yeah damage is good but pvp conquest is a whole different beast entirely and uve got classes that have no right to be bursting anywhere close to a rogue like while having tank stats.If u can tank a lot of damage than the reason why USUALLY that class does not have high burst is because u can stay in the fight and build ur dps up through sustained dps while a rogue like cannot and has to do its damage entirely through bursts unless of course the rogue is far more skilled than opponent and is able to stay in the fight.Right now uve got classes that can take continuous long bouts of pressure all while bursting as much or more than the thief, thats so messed up.Anyway just my opinion, I hardly play these days so matters little.

Not just that, the entire meta's turned hostile towards thief w/ Rune of the Trapper all over the place. If there's no bunker on the node you can be sure there's at least a sidenode trapper in there.

CMC logic: "Let's remove all of thief's burst AND heavily kitten their ability to remain in a fight as a sustained DPS - oh, they've turned to roaming you say? Well then, kitten their mobility WITHOUT ANY COMPENSATIONS. That's show them what's balance. "

Pure genius. Absolute, unadultered, bunker main logic.

Amen. Guardian Wars 2. We clearly have biased people in the balancing team.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

What would you nerf?

Daredevil line lol. Its busted

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Turk.5460" said:I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

What would you nerf?

Daredevil line lol. Its busted

You'd nerf the entire daredevil trait line? Seems vague.

On the other hand, I can see this line of thinking (particularly if we assume you're a warrior main based on your choice of AVI): thief is supposed to be a punching bag that soaks in all damage instead of evading and avoiding it.

It's surprisingly common for warrior players in particular to be shouting "coward" or "stop running" after a thief's forced them to retreat or killed them after a soft reset.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Turk.5460" said:I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

What would you nerf?

Daredevil line lol. Its busted

You'd nerf the entire daredevil trait line? Seems vague.

On the other hand, I can see this line of thinking (particularly if we assume you're a warrior main based on your choice of AVI):

thief is supposed to be a punching bag that soaks in all damage instead of evading and avoiding it.

It's surprisingly common for warrior players in particular to be shouting "coward" or "stop running" after a thief's forced them to retreat or killed them after a soft reset.

Actually I play(ed) both equal amounts. Think I got 7k hours on thief but it's got to the point I'm totally bored/burnt out on thief.

Daredevil was a silly idea from the start but now it's crazy good/busted regardless who ever you fight especially since last dmg nerf across the bored in feb. 1350 triple dash range, -30dmg reduction, weakness after evading and 7% vitality buff lol, who wouldn't use it. Oh and a 15%dmg modifier

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

What would you nerf?

Daredevil line lol. Its busted

Its not busted at all man, are u a warrior main cuz if u are ur simply countered by DD and thats all and combined with mesmer these are the only two classes DD counters and has good 1v1 match up with. The rest of the roster has winning match up against DD if equal skill is concerned hence why in large DD and rest of thieves have always been delegated to +1 roles and decap. U seriously just need to practice vs thieves more, I play warrior a lot and have little issues with thieves.

[Helicity.3416]

@Turk.5460 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Turk.5460 said:I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

What would you nerf?

Off the top of my head:-Damage shave on Shadow shot and remove its blind. This skill has been extremely bloated forever.-Damage shave on Skirmisher's shot-%damage per malice reduced on Death's Judgement-Remove damaging condi application from Steal traits and replace with utility (I am a firm believer that condi builds should NEVER be burst-related since its impossible to balance thanks to Dire/TB)

I've probably had a couple more come to mind but those stand out.

Why nerf Death's Judgment more?It's already incredibly nerfed by now.

Why bother stacking up 5-7 malice to do maybe 12k damage on a low toughness target, when I can log in my engineer and do this with 1 button press.

[Astyrah.4015]

@Dave.6819 said:Amen. Guardian Wars 2. We clearly have biased people in the balancing team.

this so much. people who main other professions also see it this way.

guardian is one of the few (if not the only one) who have builds that are meta everywhere (fractals, raids, strikes, pvp, wvw) covering dps, support, and healer

[Cynz.9437]

@Dave.6819 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@"Turk.5460" said:I can't speak for PvP, but in WvW I find Thief extremely powerful. It may not be powerful in zerg-play but we never were, and most likely never will be due to our kit. We are a small-scale and solo damage machine and not really in need of any buffs. I feel like Thief is in a good spot, and could actually do with a few minor nerfs here and there.

And no, I am not a main of another profession. I exclusively play Thief and have over 4,000 hours on it.

wvw yeah damage is good but pvp conquest is a whole different beast entirely and uve got classes that have no right to be bursting anywhere close to a rogue like while having tank stats.If u can tank a lot of damage than the reason why USUALLY that class does not have high burst is because u can stay in the fight and build ur dps up through sustained dps while a rogue like cannot and has to do its damage entirely through bursts unless of course the rogue is far more skilled than opponent and is able to stay in the fight.Right now uve got classes that can take continuous long bouts of pressure all while bursting as much or more than the thief, thats so messed up.Anyway just my opinion, I hardly play these days so matters little.

Not just that, the entire meta's turned hostile towards thief w/ Rune of the Trapper all over the place. If there's no bunker on the node you can be sure there's at least a sidenode trapper in there.

CMC logic: "Let's remove all of thief's burst AND heavily kitten their ability to remain in a fight as a sustained DPS - oh, they've turned to roaming you say? Well then, kitten their mobility WITHOUT ANY COMPENSATIONS. That's show them what's balance. "

Pure genius. Absolute, unadultered, bunker main logic.

Amen. Guardian Wars 2. We clearly have biased people in the balancing team.

In case anyone had any doubts (stolen from wvw forums):

[Cromx.3941]

Having played all professions I can say that while the Thief is able to do top damage it is by far one of the least survivable classes (barring maybe daredevil builds). I can do the same DPS on a number of classes who also are 3 times or more durable. This is PVE perspective. Maybe all the stealthing is great for PvP but in PVE it's hardly a real benefit other than skipping some content here and there. But I guess they can't really nerf other classes DPS or buff Thief above that of other classes due to the fact that defensive stats or durability has zero meaning or value in large parts of the game.

It's still not fair that thief be such a flimsy mess though.

[MisterDizzy.4713]

I took my Thief into HOT and it was miserable. Such a glass cannon. If you get caught even a little in a stray aoe you're going to die. Every time you get randomly cc'd its basically instant death. The slight high single target damage is NOT worth the rest of the class being basically unplayable. Especially since regular pve rewards high AOE damage, which the thief doesn't even have.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

@MisterDizzy.4713 said:I took my Thief into HOT and it was miserable. Such a glass cannon. If you get caught even a little in a stray aoe you're going to die. Every time you get randomly cc'd its basically instant death. The slight high single target damage is NOT worth the rest of the class being basically unplayable. Especially since regular pve rewards high AOE damage, which the thief doesn't even have.

No offense but, considering you're technically a 'new player' and all, might want to get some experience under your belt before you go judging classes like this under every profession sub-forum.

Thief does have fair amounts of AoE damage in staff. Thief is far from unplayable in solo content due to evades, sustain options and solid damage.

[MisterDizzy.4713]

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@MisterDizzy.4713 said:I took my Thief into HOT and it was miserable. Such a glass cannon. If you get caught even a little in a stray aoe you're going to die. Every time you get randomly cc'd its basically instant death. The slight high single target damage is NOT worth the rest of the class being basically unplayable. Especially since regular pve rewards high AOE damage, which the thief doesn't even have.

No offense but, considering you're technically a 'new player' and all, might want to get some experience under your belt before you go judging classes like this under every profession sub-forum.

Thief does have fair amounts of AoE damage in staff. Thief is far from unplayable in solo content due to evades, sustain options and solid damage.

The game is not exactly rocket science. I bet any one who's even gamed moderately can pick up any class in this game within a day and perform at a modest level. Every person I've asked in game and outside the game have echoed the same thing, that thief is a glass cannon and difficult compared to pretty much every other class except maybe ele (most people recommend warrior or guardian).There is overwhelming evidence everywhere that thief is one of the weakest professions in pve. My own experience matches what is being said . So I'd say my judgement is fairly on point.

[Carnifex.3275]

@MisterDizzy.4713 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@MisterDizzy.4713 said:I took my Thief into HOT and it was miserable. Such a glass cannon. If you get caught even a little in a stray aoe you're going to die. Every time you get randomly cc'd its basically instant death. The slight high single target damage is NOT worth the rest of the class being basically unplayable. Especially since regular pve rewards high AOE damage, which the thief doesn't even have.

No offense but, considering you're technically a 'new player' and all, might want to get some experience under your belt before you go judging classes like this under every profession sub-forum.

Thief does have fair amounts of AoE damage in staff. Thief is far from unplayable in solo content due to evades, sustain options and solid damage.

The game is not exactly rocket science. I bet any one who's even gamed moderately can pick up any class in this game within a day and perform at a modest level. Every person I've asked in game and outside the game have echoed the same thing, that thief is a glass cannon and difficult compared to pretty much every other class except maybe ele (most people recommend warrior or guardian).There is overwhelming evidence everywhere that thief is one of the weakest professions in pve. My own experience matches what is being said . So I'd say my judgement is fairly on point.

You're partially right. Thief is very squishy and quite useless in PvE. Daredevil can survive abit better with Staff and if you're experienced u can pretty much solo most of the open world content. But.. even tho it requires more skill and awareness and focus it's easily outshined by any other class. Basically Thief is 100% skill / 50% reward. While other classes are just.. 20% skill / 100% reward. And one other thing. It starts to show how Thief is bad when u enter endgame content like raids. Then you really see how Thief is useless and unwanted in that kind of content. Not to mention daredevil has like 1 build for the past 3-4 years. No build diversity no options nothing. Same old spam Dodge+Staff #2 build.

[Cynz.9437]

@Dave.6819 said:

@MisterDizzy.4713 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@MisterDizzy.4713 said:I took my Thief into HOT and it was miserable. Such a glass cannon. If you get caught even a little in a stray aoe you're going to die. Every time you get randomly cc'd its basically instant death. The slight high single target damage is NOT worth the rest of the class being basically unplayable. Especially since regular pve rewards high AOE damage, which the thief doesn't even have.

No offense but, considering you're technically a 'new player' and all, might want to get some experience under your belt before you go judging classes like this under every profession sub-forum.

Thief does have fair amounts of AoE damage in staff. Thief is far from unplayable in solo content due to evades, sustain options and solid damage.

The game is not exactly rocket science. I bet any one who's even gamed moderately can pick up any class in this game within a day and perform at a modest level. Every person I've asked in game and outside the game have echoed the same thing, that thief is a glass cannon and difficult compared to pretty much every other class except maybe ele (most people recommend warrior or guardian).There is overwhelming evidence everywhere that thief is one of the weakest professions in pve. My own experience matches what is being said . So I'd say my judgement is fairly on point.

You're partially right. Thief is very squishy and quite useless in PvE. Daredevil can survive abit better with Staff and if you're experienced u can pretty much solo most of the open world content. But.. even tho it requires more skill and awareness and focus it's easily outshined by any other class. Basically Thief is 100% skill / 50% reward. While other classes are just.. 20% skill / 100% reward. And one other thing. It starts to show how Thief is bad when u enter endgame content like raids. Then you really see how Thief is useless and unwanted in that kind of content. Not to mention daredevil has like 1 build for the past 3-4 years. No build diversity no options nothing.

Same old spam Dodge+Staff #2 build

.

Preach it!

[kash.9213]

@MisterDizzy.4713 said:I took my Thief into HOT and it was miserable. Such a glass cannon. If you get caught even a little in a stray aoe you're going to die. Every time you get randomly cc'd its basically instant death. The slight high single target damage is NOT worth the rest of the class being basically unplayable. Especially since regular pve rewards high AOE damage, which the thief doesn't even have.

Sacrifice some power and bring your health and maybe some toughness up and crit chance and pack some Control skills and utility. If you can keep stuff debuffed and break bars, which goes for any game mode, then you don't need to be glass. You can build to leech and siphon off of your Control and sustain a group to group kill rate.

[Downstate.4697]

They made initiative too hard to manage imo. Nerfing ways to gain it and also increasing cost of skills limits thief ability to consistently pressure. I think thief has many underutilized traits that could make for fun builds. I dont think anet hates thieves. Theyve been in the meta for a long time. The way they nerfed initiative was handled poorly imo.

[Tseison.4659]

No. They're way too strong in WvW and need to be toned down.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@FrownyClown.8402 said:They made initiative too hard to manage imo. Nerfing ways to gain it and also increasing cost of skills limits thief ability to consistently pressure. I think thief has many underutilized traits that could make for fun builds. I dont think anet hates thieves. Theyve been in the meta for a long time. The way they nerfed initiative was handled poorly imo.

This^ 100%, shows the balance teams talent at balancing lol....extremely lazy.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Tseison.4659 said:No. They're way too strong in WvW and need to be toned down.

naw they were fine, sure strong in roaming scenarios but those same builds they beat roaming destroyed them hard in zerg scenarios so....

[manu.7539]

Seriously, perma stealth access + incredible mobility + a brand new portal ability and u ask for more? How dare u!?!

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Guess I'm unique in that the only thing I'd like changed is for either Malicious Intent or One in the Chamber to be made baseline. I don't like that the Deadeye eventually runs out of DJs and has to run up with the dagger, or that it is by design that the build has disjointed malice/initiative ratios.

I don't PVP/WVW on one... yet. Getting the infusions now. But for PVE I have no problems either doing damage or surviving, no matter which specialization I'm on. The daredevil has so many skill dodges and additional dodges that there's almost always one available. So long as I'm not asleep at the wheel, I can avoid almost any attack that comes by. In case I do want to sleep at the wheel, I slot on Invigorating Precision and the Healing Signet, then manually power through whatever I'm fighting. Deadeye's stealth on dodge means I can escape pressure and reposition as I see fit, and the endless projectile destruction trivializes a lot of fights. Though most things are dead before they get to me, and the high quickness uptime while solo is a massive boost.

I don't have issues in fractals, either, for much the same reasons. If I did do raids, the daredevil is right up there next to alacrigade for my first choice, because the rotation is easy and gives me plenty of room for error.

[Nephalem.8921]

@MisterDizzy.4713 said:I took my Thief into HOT and it was miserable. Such a glass cannon. If you get caught even a little in a stray aoe you're going to die. Every time you get randomly cc'd its basically instant death. The slight high single target damage is NOT worth the rest of the class being basically unplayable. Especially since regular pve rewards high AOE damage, which the thief doesn't even have.

Equip staff + shortbow or sword/pistol. Select invigorating precision. win pve. its that simple.Thief is fine in raids. stolen skills are extremely strong and dps is okay. just give them raid stolen skills in fractals and they would be fine there.Its the spam dodge > spam 2 gameplay i hate. not the numbers. At least give me back dd DE. Anything that doesnt dodge around to do dps.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I'd be really nice if thief had mesmers burst lmao as a warrior with 27k hp in conquest a mesmer can leave me with 5k hp left in one sec out stealth, its absurd any mesmer complains about their burst, imagine if thief still had 15-20k backstab lol.

[Yasai.3549]

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I'd be really nice if thief had mesmers burst lmao as a warrior with 27k hp in conquest a mesmer can leave me with 5k hp left in one sec out stealth, its absurd any mesmer complains about their burst, imagine if thief still had 15-20k backstab lol.

To be fair, Mesmer burst relies on their Clones reliably hitting.I tried to pull a Mesmer burst on a DH the other time and Dragons Maw just lolnoped them while DH erected his frontal shield thingy and blocked the rest.

Guess it depends who yu pick yur fights with :p

[Cynz.9437]

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:I'd be really nice if thief had mesmers burst lmao as a warrior with 27k hp in conquest a mesmer can leave me with 5k hp left in one sec out stealth, its absurd any mesmer complains about their burst, imagine if thief still had 15-20k backstab lol.

To be fair, Mesmer burst relies on their Clones reliably hitting.I tried to pull a Mesmer burst on a DH the other time and Dragons Maw just lolnoped them while DH erected his frontal shield thingy and blocked the rest.

Guess it depends who yu pick yur fights with :p

As thief you would have even less success probably tbh. But it think the main point of this thread is not 1v1 but while community hates us a lot they also don't want to have us on their team because we provide little to the group. Given nature of MMORPG and what kind of end game content exists in gw2 it kind of does mean that thief players are excluded from the game to extend.