Ele has no real profession mechanic meaning

[Obtena.7952]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is know as power creep and p2w.

If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you.

There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it.

Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.

That's

not true

... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with.

Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong.

No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's

not true

. That simply depends on who you team with.

I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's

not true

. They are excluded because they team with people that

tell

them they can't play it.

So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all?

I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.

Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

[Jski.6180]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is know as power creep and p2w.

If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you.

There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it.

Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.

That's

not true

... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with.

Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong.

No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's

not true

. That simply depends on who you team with.

I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's

not true

. They are excluded because they team with people that

tell

them they can't play it.

So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all?

I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.

Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with.

There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes?

"For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)"

From the op.

[Obtena.7952]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is know as power creep and p2w.

If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you.

There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it.

Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.

That's

not true

... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with.

Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong.

No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's

not true

. That simply depends on who you team with.

I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's

not true

. They are excluded because they team with people that

tell

them they can't play it.

So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all?

I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.

Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with.

I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted

There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes?

So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's not true. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it.

"For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)"

From the op.

.. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be not true.

Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game.

[Jski.6180]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is know as power creep and p2w.

If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you.

There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it.

Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.

That's

not true

... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with.

Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong.

No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's

not true

. That simply depends on who you team with.

I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's

not true

. They are excluded because they team with people that

tell

them they can't play it.

So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all?

I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.

Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with.

I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted

There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes?

So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's

not true

. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it.

"For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)"

From the op.

.. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be

not true

.

Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game.

You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol.

This is a question of you being ok with core ele being weaker then elite spec because ppl pay money for the elite spec.

[Obtena.7952]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is know as power creep and p2w.

If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you.

There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it.

Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.

That's

not true

... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with.

Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong.

No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's

not true

. That simply depends on who you team with.

I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's

not true

. They are excluded because they team with people that

tell

them they can't play it.

So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all?

I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.

Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with.

I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted

There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes?

So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's

not true

. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it.

"For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)"

From the op.

.. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be

not true

.

Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game.

You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol.

There are no numbers on meta raids sites that show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. So no, whatever numerical information you are referring to that those sites have ... has ZERO relevance to the truth that people can choose ele and be successful in this game.

You know what would fix all this? Is if you just admitted you want a buff on ele because it's not meta. That's still a completely irrelevant reason to buff ele and has nothing to do with the topic ... but at least it's based on some level of truth.

[Jski.6180]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is know as power creep and p2w.

If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you.

There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it.

Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.

That's

not true

... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with.

Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong.

No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's

not true

. That simply depends on who you team with.

I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's

not true

. They are excluded because they team with people that

tell

them they can't play it.

So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all?

I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.

Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with.

I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted

There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes?

So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's

not true

. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it.

"For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)"

From the op.

.. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be

not true

.

Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game.

You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol.

There are no numbers on meta raids sites that show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. So no, whatever numerical information you are referring to that those sites have ... has ZERO relevance to the truth that people can choose ele and be successful in this game.

You know what would fix all this? Is if you just admitted you want a buff on ele because it's not meta. That's still a completely irrelevant reason to buff ele and has nothing to do with the topic ... but at least it's based on some level of truth.

Odd you would think a meta web pages would have dps numbers must not be a good one. But core dose less dps then the eleit spec even the support eleit spec dose better dps all due to core weapons and effect getting nerfed.

I mean ya i want to see core ele buffed in such a way to NOT buff the elite spec. and to cut off any chase for the next elite spec to be balanced based off of core ele nerfs / buffs. I went though this before PoF with weaver and i went though this before HoT with tempest. Its a very bad system anet has made here and its all going to doom every thing to become the same if anet realty wants to balance things out and they will over time.

[Obtena.7952]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is know as power creep and p2w.

If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you.

There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it.

Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.

That's

not true

... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with.

Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong.

No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's

not true

. That simply depends on who you team with.

I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's

not true

. They are excluded because they team with people that

tell

them they can't play it.

So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all?

I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.

Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with.

I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted

There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes?

So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's

not true

. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it.

"For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)"

From the op.

.. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be

not true

.

Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game.

You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol.

There are no numbers on meta raids sites that show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. So no, whatever numerical information you are referring to that those sites have ... has ZERO relevance to the truth that people can choose ele and be successful in this game.

You know what would fix all this? Is if you just admitted you want a buff on ele because it's not meta. That's still a completely irrelevant reason to buff ele and has nothing to do with the topic ... but at least it's based on some level of truth.

Odd you would think a meta web pages would have dps numbers must not be a good one.Nothing I have said should give you that impression. I asked you for the numbers that show ele can't be a successful choice since that was the claim you were challenging with the existence of the numbers ... and telling me things I don't think is also very dishonest but you already know that because I've already told you numerous times.But core dose less dps then the eleit spec even the support eleit spec dose better dps all due to core weapons and effect getting nerfed.Even if that is true, it's not a reason to buff ele.

I mean ya i want to see core ele buffed in such a way to NOT buff the elite spec. and to cut off any chase for the next elite spec to be balanced based off of core ele nerfs / buffs. I went though this before PoF with weaver and i went though this before HoT with tempest. Its a very bad system anet has made here and its all going to doom every thing to become the same if anet realty wants to balance things out and they will over time.

It's only bad if you don't understand Anet can't create all options to match your criteria for class choice, even when the game changes. Anet can't cater to how individuals think the game should work. I like the little flavour of 'doom' you added as well ... because we all know GW2 is doomed if Anet doesn't do what you want right?

[Jski.6180]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is know as power creep and p2w.

If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you.

There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it.

Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.

That's

not true

... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with.

Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong.

No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's

not true

. That simply depends on who you team with.

I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's

not true

. They are excluded because they team with people that

tell

them they can't play it.

So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all?

I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.

Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with.

I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted

There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes?

So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's

not true

. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it.

"For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)"

From the op.

.. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be

not true

.

Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game.

You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol.

There are no numbers on meta raids sites that show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. So no, whatever numerical information you are referring to that those sites have ... has ZERO relevance to the truth that people can choose ele and be successful in this game.

You know what would fix all this? Is if you just admitted you want a buff on ele because it's not meta. That's still a completely irrelevant reason to buff ele and has nothing to do with the topic ... but at least it's based on some level of truth.

Odd you would think a meta web pages would have dps numbers must not be a good one.Nothing I have said should give you that impression. I asked you for the numbers that show ele can't be a successful choice since that was the claim you were challenging with the existence of the numbers ... and telling me things I don't think is also very dishonest but you already know that because I've already told you numerous times.But core dose less dps then the eleit spec even the support eleit spec dose better dps all due to core weapons and effect getting nerfed.Even if that is true, it's not a reason to buff ele.

I mean ya i want to see core ele buffed in such a way to NOT buff the elite spec. and to cut off any chase for the next elite spec to be balanced based off of core ele nerfs / buffs. I went though this before PoF with weaver and i went though this before HoT with tempest. Its a very bad system anet has made here and its all going to doom every thing to become the same if anet realty wants to balance things out and they will over time.

It's only bad if you don't understand Anet can't create all options to match your criteria for class choice, even when the game changes. Anet can't cater to how individuals think the game should work. I like the little flavour of 'doom' you added as well ... because we all know GW2 is doomed if Anet doesn't do what you want right?

They promote there elite spec over there core classes but understanding that dose not make it right. The balancing doom i am talking about happens with all the class mechanic are effectively the same thing with only small veneration. That why you need to give core ele its own mechanic or at least make sure its elite spec do not share the mechanic comply. That the point of all of this.

[Obtena.7952]

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is know as power creep and p2w.

If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you.

There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it.

Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.

That's

not true

... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with.

Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong.

No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's

not true

. That simply depends on who you team with.

I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's

not true

. They are excluded because they team with people that

tell

them they can't play it.

So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all?

I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.

Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with.

I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted

There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes?

So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's

not true

. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it.

"For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)"

From the op.

.. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be

not true

.

Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game.

You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol.

There are no numbers on meta raids sites that show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. So no, whatever numerical information you are referring to that those sites have ... has ZERO relevance to the truth that people can choose ele and be successful in this game.

You know what would fix all this? Is if you just admitted you want a buff on ele because it's not meta. That's still a completely irrelevant reason to buff ele and has nothing to do with the topic ... but at least it's based on some level of truth.

Odd you would think a meta web pages would have dps numbers must not be a good one.Nothing I have said should give you that impression. I asked you for the numbers that show ele can't be a successful choice since that was the claim you were challenging with the existence of the numbers ... and telling me things I don't think is also very dishonest but you already know that because I've already told you numerous times.But core dose less dps then the eleit spec even the support eleit spec dose better dps all due to core weapons and effect getting nerfed.Even if that is true, it's not a reason to buff ele.

I mean ya i want to see core ele buffed in such a way to NOT buff the elite spec. and to cut off any chase for the next elite spec to be balanced based off of core ele nerfs / buffs. I went though this before PoF with weaver and i went though this before HoT with tempest. Its a very bad system anet has made here and its all going to doom every thing to become the same if anet realty wants to balance things out and they will over time.

It's only bad if you don't understand Anet can't create all options to match your criteria for class choice, even when the game changes. Anet can't cater to how individuals think the game should work. I like the little flavour of 'doom' you added as well ... because we all know GW2 is doomed if Anet doesn't do what you want right?

They promote there elite spec over there core classes but understanding that dose not make it right.

True, what makes it right is that the performance variation between all the specs doesn't impact people's ability to choose and be successful playing the game how they want, as intended by the goal Anet has to design the game to allow people to play how they want to play.

The balancing doom i am talking about happens with all the class mechanic are effectively the same thing with only small veneration.

As long as the specs offer meaningful choices to people, WHATEVER that value is and no matter how similar the class mechanics are, there is no 'balancing doom'. Ele is a meaningful choice.

[Jski.6180]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Jski.6180 said:That is know as power creep and p2w.

If that's true, it certainly doesn't change the truth of what I'm saying to you.

There is NO REQUIREMENT for all these classes and especs to be the same level of performance for people to have meaningful choices and play how they want to be succussful. It's not a problem if things are not equivalent in performance. The game is designed that way to allow it.

Ok so your cool with it. That all i am trying to get at. Just be willing to take on that yoke in your post and stop dancing arone it.

Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.

That's

not true

... the only people that are excluded are the people that make bad choices about who they team with.

Stop taking my words out of context and only quoting part of my thoughts and ideals. They are complete points of views. By doing what you have been doing and it seems always do your making ppl seem to say things they are not and its just wrong.

No words are out of context here ... you are implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds. That's

not true

. That simply depends on who you team with.

I'm not quoting your whole post because it's based on the false premise that people are excluded because of class choices ... That's

not true

. They are excluded because they team with people that

tell

them they can't play it.

So your cool with forgetting part of ppl post are you even reading it all?

I read it, I just didn't quote it ... and I replied to it appropriately.

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.

Oh so you HAVE NUMBERS now that suggest you can't play ele and be successful? Great, what are they? (this should be interesting)

You avode quoting things you do not want to deal with.

I've dealt with EVERYTHING you have posted

There are not raid meta build web pages that tell you every thing about classes?

So raid meta build pages tell you EVERYTHING about classes? Um, that's

not true

. They tell you about meta builds ... that's about it.

"For comparison : Condi Tempest uses 9 unique weapon skills in it's rotation, while Condi Chrono uses 6. They both have the same dps at 38 K. (source : snowcrows)"

From the op.

.. and that has what to do with the fact you can choose ele and be successful? ANSWER: absolutely nothing. Therefore, implying people are excluded from playing content because they aren't using optimal or high performance builds continues to be

not true

.

Speaking of things people don't want to deal with, I would still love to see those numbers that say show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game.

You asked for numbers there they are and they do not lie. Just because its the meta dose not make it some how less true. Its makes it more true in fact lol.

There are no numbers on meta raids sites that show you can't choose ele and be successful in this game. So no, whatever numerical information you are referring to that those sites have ... has ZERO relevance to the truth that people can choose ele and be successful in this game.

You know what would fix all this? Is if you just admitted you want a buff on ele because it's not meta. That's still a completely irrelevant reason to buff ele and has nothing to do with the topic ... but at least it's based on some level of truth.

Odd you would think a meta web pages would have dps numbers must not be a good one.Nothing I have said should give you that impression. I asked you for the numbers that show ele can't be a successful choice since that was the claim you were challenging with the existence of the numbers ... and telling me things I don't think is also very dishonest but you already know that because I've already told you numerous times.But core dose less dps then the eleit spec even the support eleit spec dose better dps all due to core weapons and effect getting nerfed.Even if that is true, it's not a reason to buff ele.

I mean ya i want to see core ele buffed in such a way to NOT buff the elite spec. and to cut off any chase for the next elite spec to be balanced based off of core ele nerfs / buffs. I went though this before PoF with weaver and i went though this before HoT with tempest. Its a very bad system anet has made here and its all going to doom every thing to become the same if anet realty wants to balance things out and they will over time.

It's only bad if you don't understand Anet can't create all options to match your criteria for class choice, even when the game changes. Anet can't cater to how individuals think the game should work. I like the little flavour of 'doom' you added as well ... because we all know GW2 is doomed if Anet doesn't do what you want right?

They promote there elite spec over there core classes but understanding that dose not make it right.

True, what makes it right is that the performance variation between all the specs doesn't impact people's ability to choose and be successful playing the game how they want, as intended by the goal Anet has to design the game to allow people to play how they want to play.

The balancing doom i am talking about happens with all the class mechanic are effectively the same thing with only small veneration.

As long as the specs offer meaningful choices to people, WHATEVER that value is and no matter how similar the class mechanics are, there is no 'balancing doom'. Ele is a meaningful choice.

Meaningful chose could be any thing right even food could be a meaningful chose saying it is more of a slogan from anet then any thing else. The ele class dose the same thing just 2 slightly different ways. Dmg healing support week boons and soft / hard cc. The next elite spec will more then likely do the same thing. Its a massive lack of real forces of the class. A lot of it has to do with anet not knowing what to do with the class that is partly why both tempest and weaver organize builds where scrap and redone and why we see tempest and weaver take so much from the core ele class. Its just a mess of partly balanced ideals. But that why you have to keep on anet and keep putting ideals out there.

I want to see core ele be the ideal ele 4 atument class. I want to see tempest get real support boons. I want to see weaver be that high and hard to deal with dmg class. But all 3 of them do effectively the same thing just tempest and weaver do it far better then the core ele. This is why it all starts at the core ele balancing and core ele getting its own class mechanic. It would leave room for tempest to get its true support boons and weave to get real dmg effects that are hard to deal with.

If any thing having you on these forms help made them more active all though i massively disagree with your point of view even word usages. You cant talk about ele any where else with out having it banished to the shadow realm know as the ele forms.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

@Jski.6180

It's sounding like what you're desiring is some kind of stronger, core-only implementation that will make not choosing an elite specialization more appealing. Kind of like how Revenant has Ancient Echo while Herald and Renegade do not.

[Jski.6180]

@KidRoleplay.3615 said:@Jski.6180

It's sounding like what you're desiring is some kind of stronger, core-only implementation that will make not choosing an elite specialization more appealing. Kind of like how Revenant has Ancient Echo while Herald and Renegade do not.

The thing is rev get its full trait line effect even if it dose not use the right wepon all though i do not know if it gets its full effect of its lengedays. I understand elite spec should be strong in one places or another but core ele lacks a massive amount when its not in the right atument as its traits line example if its not in fire it loses a lot of its power not because of the lack of dmg kill but because the lost of the full traits of fire. You can say the same with support to a point (its hard to heal out side of water for core ele by a lot) but at least let soothing mist always go off.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

@Jski.6180 said:

@KidRoleplay.3615 said:@Jski.6180

It's sounding like what you're desiring is some kind of stronger, core-only implementation that will make not choosing an elite specialization more appealing. Kind of like how Revenant has Ancient Echo while Herald and Renegade do not.

The thing is rev get its full trait line effect even if it dose not use the right wepon all though i do not know if it gets its full effect of its lengedays. I understand elite spec should be strong in one places or another but core ele lacks a massive amount when its not in the right atument as its traits line example if its not in fire it loses a lot of its power not because of the lack of dmg kill but because the lost of the full traits of fire. You can say the same with support to a point (its hard to heal out side of water for core ele by a lot) but at least let soothing mist always go off.

The thing that's an issue though is that making those traits active at all times, as nice as that would be, would still be essentially empowering builds utilizing an elite spec. So it'd in the end still have core elementalist be an undesirable option as even though it can use three core specializations, an elite specialization is still better for the niche it's intending to tackle. But this isnt unique to ele! On the buff side of things, there's suggesting a core-only implementation akin to Ancient Echo, while on the nerf side of things, there's the suggestion of "tradeoffs" that were explored across some professions a year ago. The latter of course is more unpopular, but no harm in discussing it!

[Obtena.7952]

@Jski.6180 said:Meaningful chose could be any thing right ....

Correct ... that's what 'play how you want' means. Maybe playing how you want is a meaningless slogan that's easy for you to brush aside because it means the game doesn't work how you want it to ... but for others it's the reason they play this game and it's important to them.

I want to see ...

Yes, you've made it clear you think Anet should cater to how you think the game should work ... but the reality is that Anet can't do that for you. It's why we have choice to allow us to play how we want.

[Obtena.7952]

@"Zee.1294" said:I see you all over the forums passionately defending the " design of the game" story.

I'm glad I can make that significant impact here because there are lots of people that don't understand how the game design affects them and the choices they make. This thread is just proof of that.

[kharmin.7683]

@Jski.6180 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.What numbers? Where is it shown that core elemental cannot complete content. Granted, it may be easier or more difficult depending on the build, player's skill/experience or compared to other professions but that does not mean that the core elementalist cannot be used to complete content. Can you show empirical evidence where this is not the case?

[Obtena.7952]

@Zee.1294 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Zee.1294 said:I see you all over the forums passionately defending the " design of the game" story.

I'm glad I can make that significant impact here because there are lots of people that don't understand how the game design affects them and the choices they make. This thread is just proof of that.

not sure what impact are you talking about when 95 % of the people that PlAY the dam game dont even read to forums

Hey, if the message hits the 5% that do ... I'm good with that.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.What numbers? Where is it shown that core elemental cannot complete content. Granted, it may be easier or more difficult depending on the build, player's skill/experience or compared to other professions but that does not mean that the core elementalist cannot be used to complete content. Can you show empirical evidence where this is not the case?

This whole thread reminds me why I adopted the 3-exchanges rule. I.E. if a disagreement cannot be resolved or reach a point of clarity within 3 full exchanges, then it will never reach one. After all, you can't reason someone out of a belief that they didn't use reason to arrive at in the first place. However I digress.

I did a couple of baseline tests. I happen to have an ele with full berserker ascended gear. I did a couple of auto attack tests with standard boons and setup to compare how much damage each one does. Basically, I auto-attacked a golem with air dagger. Here are the results:

Tempest: 13.2k DPSWeaver: 15.9k DPSWater Core: 15.9k DPSArcane Core: 15.0k DPS

This all demonstrates that Core has the same scaled effective power that weaver does, and more than tempest. The difference in performance comes from the skills available, and not the traits themselves. It hasn't been run in awhile, and I'm too disabled to test it, but I do wonder exactly how powerful the old conjures + arcane skills core ele would be nowadays.

[Axl.8924]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@ScottBroChill.3254 said:ok, fair. But the inability of buffing core ele without buffing it's elite specs is near impossible because there is no actual tradeoff in accessability to core ele's skills or abilities or what have you.

That's true, but I don't see why that's a concern though.

That statement also assumes Anet needs a way to buff ele without affecting especs at the same time. I don't think that's a good assumption either. I mean, we haven't seen much evidence from Anet in the history of game changes that suggests they won't make a change to core if it affects especs or vice versa ... so where does that assumption you are making come from?

Because Anet has been making efforts for the past few years to make core specs more viable and to combat powercreep, as well as slightly cater to players who do not own the expansions.

So you're whole goal here is to prevent power creep (because I'm not going to argue core isn't viable enough) by giving ele a unique mechanic? That's suspect considering I JUST quoted you as saying core ele can't be buffed without affecting it's especs ...

See how you are contradicting yourself there? You want to PREVENT power creep with this unique mechanic ... to BUFF core ele. I'm just going to let that simmer.

I suspect there is a way to fix core ele without but it would require mechanics that only core can use and to make them work properly in PVP environment.

Part of the reason why weaver works better is because of mobility access to good damage global cds and sustain tools as well. ANET also literally nerfed teleports with a cd of 60 and eles unlike nec and warrs are squishy just like mesmers. The truth is obvious The power creep of mobility buff accesses and ccs leaves cores in the dust.

This isn't unique to ele though, as other cores have suffered too from this: Nec core ele core engi core mes i hear.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Its not good for the game it makes a real split between the haves and have nots and makes ppl exclude others from playing content.This is entirely subjective and your opinion. There is nothing that is preventing core elementalists from playing and completing content.

Number are not subjective.What numbers? Where is it shown that core elemental cannot complete content. Granted, it may be easier or more difficult depending on the build, player's skill/experience or compared to other professions but that does not mean that the core elementalist cannot be used to complete content. Can you show empirical evidence where this is not the case?

This whole thread reminds me why I adopted the 3-exchanges rule. I.E. if a disagreement cannot be resolved or reach a point of clarity within 3 full exchanges, then it will

never

reach one. After all, you can't reason someone out of a belief that they didn't use reason to arrive at in the first place. However I digress.

I did a couple of baseline tests. I happen to have an ele with full berserker ascended gear. I did a couple of auto attack tests with standard boons and setup to compare how much damage each one does. Basically, I auto-attacked a golem with air dagger. Here are the results:

Tempest: 13.2k DPSWeaver: 15.9k DPSWater Core: 15.9k DPSArcane Core: 15.0k DPS

This all demonstrates that Core has the same scaled effective power that weaver does, and more than tempest. The difference in performance comes from the skills available, and not the traits themselves. It hasn't been run in awhile, and I'm too disabled to test it, but I do wonder exactly how powerful the old conjures + arcane skills core ele would be nowadays.

I agree it has to do with the skills but more towards that the skills offer more evades/Ways to gen might/protection regen etc.

The older skills offer less and that is why it's problematic for core.

[Downstate.4697]

Core d/d used to rely alot on air auto attack for pressure. Between the damage nerfs and heal nerfs, the tradeoff isnt there. You can go full zerk and get the damage you need, but you lack sustain.
Giving core double minor passives would do a lot

[Jski.6180]

So when they nerf aura clears and reg clears as they are like to do in the next update will this be become of core ele?

[Mini Crinny.6190]

@Jski.6180 said:So when they nerf aura clears and reg clears as they are like to do in the next update will this be become of core ele?

I don't think anet actually give a dam about any core spec, It's just classes like Guardian that have a strong core set that makes the elite specs better while other classes, struggle to do anything with core specs nowadays and besides, Base game comes with the expansions.. so as long as the elite specs look good, who cares about core? it's not where the money comes

[Dadnir.5038]

@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@"Jski.6180" said:So when they nerf aura clears and reg clears as they are like to do in the next update will this be become of core ele?

I don't think anet actually give a dam about any core spec, It's just classes like Guardian that have a strong core set that makes the elite specs better while other classes, struggle to do anything with core specs nowadays and besides, Base game comes with the expansions.. so as long as the elite specs look good, who cares about core? it's not where the money comes

I wouldn't say core professions are in a really bad state. They are seldom optimal, yes, but not necessarily "bad".