Dou of Destiny MM here, we've played this since the first 2v2 season due to a bug.

[dylanirwin.6249]

Minion Mancer necro is not strong at all in 2v2s. However, this simple mechanic makes it impossible to beat.When waiting for the "Round Ready" signal we summon all minions and use lich 4. This gives us both full life force before the round even starts. This inherently lead to the first edition Minion Mancer build that was Paladins with Spite, Blood, Death Magic. That build although really strong, was able to be beaten in some cases.

Now With the new minion mancer build that I and ckod came up with it is unfair and unbeatable. The whole reason this build or playstyle rather is viable due to what I believe is a bug. In 5v5s, It shouldn't be a good sidenoder, but having max shroud while going into a side node at the start allows you to just win it without even trying. The only reason that this build is better than the old one is due to the number of immobs it has. 3 to be exact. With all of them being annoyingly long duration. This allows the build to hit certain skills like bone minions that do over 2k base dmg on a condi build btw.

I'm sure this isn't an issue for everyone. However, I want to never see another minion mancer ever again. This build was created because of 2v2s and made its way into meta for no reason. 30k+ health, lots of shroud, tons of power, and Condi dmg. This build on paper is overpowered in of itself, but being able to get full shroud before every round is oppressing and needs to be fixed.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

i'm pretty sure being able to get shroud before match start has always been around and is not a bug.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i'm pretty sure being able to get shroud before match start has always been around and is not a bug.

yes yes, clever use of game mechanics :)the shroud reset before match starts is cosmetic :)

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i'm pretty sure being able to get shroud before match start has always been around and is not a bug.

yes yes, clever use of game mechanics :)the shroud reset before match starts is cosmetic :)

yeah well necros are a free kill with out shroud so idc about this qq

[Gamble.4580]

Moa dead ggtyvm. If u see to mm necros moa it cancels their mm and u get a nice kill window if your team is awake enough to switch from their tunnel target and retarget

[Gamble.4580]

Just get rid of mm necro. It’s banana. And ckod u didn’t make anything lmao. U just play it well and have been noticed but it’s been around for years but people don’t ply it because it’s cheese. But if not I don’t mind it staying as some people and bots need a ez to maintain a spot. And mm and lich bug has been used and used for us necros for years and years, no1 has minded and it’s been really helpful for new necros. With not getting deleted on opener. But real necros don’t need to play mm as we don’t need the carry. I don’t mind this bug staying as long as it helps you win some games and maybe one day u might feel good enough to play other necro builds.

[Bazsi.2734]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:i'm pretty sure being able to get shroud before match start has always been around and is not a bug.

yes yes, clever use of game mechanics :)the shroud reset before match starts is cosmetic :)

yeah well necros are a free kill with out shroud so idc about this qq

Shroud is reset when match starts. That indicates that necros should not have any life force when the game starts. Getting life force from a skill cast before the reset is basicly an exploit. This is not a question of whether a necro is hard to kill or not, its a question of do you want your game to be consistent or not. It's a question of do you let people exploit bugs in competetive mode or not.I expect the PvP team to give full attention to this issue. I'm sure all 0 of them will work on this relentlessly until nothing happens because they don't care, there is no PvP team anymore.

[Gamble.4580]

And if we gonna talk about ds bugs might aswell bring them all to the table as I know op does not know them all if he did he will say he invented it. Other ds bug is if u get full ds before loading in game it takes half u lich to get full and when it says match is about to begin u relog back into char it loads u in with 50% ds... only necro mains know also eng can give u ds to for match rdy. U can make mm elite hit twice as well as get lich mms to spawn 2 sets

[Majy.6792]

@"dylanirwin.6249" said:Minion Mancer necro is not strong at all in 2v2s. However, this simple mechanic makes it impossible to beat.When waiting for the "Round Ready" signal we summon all minions and use lich 4. This gives us both full life force before the round even starts. This inherently lead to the first edition Minion Mancer build that was Paladins with Spite, Blood, Death Magic. That build although really strong, was able to be beaten in some cases.

Now With the new minion mancer build that I and ckod came up with it is unfair and unbeatable. The whole reason this build or playstyle rather is viable due to what I believe is a bug. In 5v5s, It shouldn't be a good sidenoder, but having max shroud while going into a side node at the start allows you to just win it without even trying. The only reason that this build is better than the old one is due to the number of immobs it has. 3 to be exact. With all of them being annoyingly long duration. This allows the build to hit certain skills like bone minions that do over 2k base dmg on a condi build btw.

I'm sure this isn't an issue for everyone. However, I want to never see another minion mancer ever again. This build was created because of 2v2s and made its way into meta for no reason. 30k+ health, lots of shroud, tons of power, and Condi dmg. This build on paper is overpowered in of itself, but being able to get full shroud before every round is oppressing and needs to be fixed.

I have yet to see an MM build that seems overpowered (at least vs any other necro build). I don't play it much myself but have played vs. plenty of top players as MM's and never felt like anything was unfair.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

@Bazsi.2734 said:Shroud is reset when match starts. That indicates that necros should not have any life force when the game starts. Getting life force from a skill cast before the reset is basicly an exploit. This is not a question of whether a necro is hard to kill or not, its a question of do you want your game to be consistent or not. It's a question of do you let people exploit bugs in competetive mode or not.I expect the PvP team to give full attention to this issue. I'm sure all 0 of them will work on this relentlessly until nothing happens because they don't care, there is no PvP team anymore.

i think if they considered it a bug they would've fixed it by now. like i said i think its been around since launch.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Bazsi.2734" said:Shroud is reset when match starts. That indicates that necros should not have any life force when the game starts. Getting life force from a skill cast before the reset is basicly an exploit. This is not a question of whether a necro is hard to kill or not, its a question of do you want your game to be consistent or not. It's a question of do you let people exploit bugs in competetive mode or not.I expect the PvP team to give full attention to this issue. I'm sure all 0 of them will work on this relentlessly until nothing happens because they don't care, there is no PvP team anymore.

i think if they considered it a bug they would've fixed it by now. like i said i think its been around since launch.

In fact they only "recently" (08/28/2018) gave back LF from minion's death (it's interesting to see that the removal the LF gain prior to that isn't showed in the wiki). When minions didn't grant you LF, it wasn't possible to fuel your LF pool the way the OP is describing. That said, the current design might be intentional and just waiting to be exploited.

What's ironic is that the first time they removed LF gain from minions it was for the exact same reason this thread have been opened.