Elementalist - Master Of 2 Elements Only - (Elite Specialisation)

[moony.5780]

What do you guys think, if there was an elite specialisation, that work similar to Revenants legends?Outside Battle the elements can be switched.

Possible additional mechanics:

• Skills and Elemental buffs are stronger, because there only 10 skills now and not 20.
• Strenght as it is, but weapon swap available. So it will be again 20 skills.

[Arheundel.6451]

The idea has been brought up several times in the past even before Tempest got released, the idea was to bring back the GW1 ele...sadly that idea never materialized although it would be a god send to have that as a third elite although........our ranged options suck for most part so unless we get a powerful ranged option with the 3rd elite...we would end up with a rather useless elite seen as its main selling point : weapon swap, would be completely redundant , I mean are you gonna swap between d/d and d/f? so yeah the lack of strong weapon choices outside daggers makes a weapon swap mechanic pretty useless at this point unless we get our hands on a really powerful single target ranged option to switch to

[moony.5780]

Ofc it must have a new weapon with it :) And i completly agree with you, that a ranged weapon is missing.

[Downstate.4697]

it would make traitlines useless since they are tied to that attunement. No sense going fire traitline if you choose air and water. To me it makes more sense that one weapon has 2 elements you can switch between and swapping weapons gives access to the other two

[Fueki.4753]

While the two Elements idea seems nice, I'd rather have a spec that has access to all four, but gets stronger the longer you stay in one attunement.

[Jski.6180]

Its kind of how the Core ele should of been with latent atument where you have the effect of the atument lines you trained into all of the time but your still able to use the 4 or 3 atuments you had not trained into. Say your Fire air arcain core ele you would be effectively a Fire air ele all of the time but you still can go into water and earth with out losing your fire air effects.

As for a new elite spec ele needs boon control badly i am not sure if a 2 only atument would fit.

[lLobo.7960]

Tempest rewards you for staying in attunements longer, weaver rewards you for constantly swapping attunements and combining them.A spec with only two attunements is really... meh.Id rather see an elite spec that change how the attunements give you new skills (so skills are fixed per weapon) and gives you weapon swap.This was the suggesntion here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76602/new-elite-spec-disciple-weapon-swap-and-longbow

@lLobo.7960 said:The disciple is an elementalist that focus more on martial prowess than raw magic channeling.Focusing on martial expertise and physical prowess, the disciple can swap weapons in combat but looses the ability to have different and unique skills in each attunment and magical attacks.Instead, the disciple uses the elemental magic of attunements to boost its attacks and defenses and uses its weapons in martial combat instead of conduits to magic. To compensate the lack of long range magic attacks, the disciple uses a longbow to deliver his attacks from distance and physical skills to be mobile and effective in combat.

New weapon: longbowNew utility skills: physical skillsTL/DR: Martial focus elementalist with long range dps as longbow, weapon swap instead of individual attunement skills, mobility, new conditions (torment and poison), and even stealth with combos. Instead of one weapon with 20 new skills, gains one weapon with 5 new skills and new skills for each old weapon (staff 5, scepter 3, dagger 5, focus 2). Staff and dagger become melee versions, scepter becomes akin to mace and focus akin to shield.

[Jski.6180]

@lLobo.7960 said:Tempest rewards you for staying in attunements longer, weaver rewards you for constantly swapping attunements and combining them.A spec with only two attunements is really... meh.Id rather see an elite spec that change how the attunements give you new skills (so skills are fixed per weapon) and gives you weapon swap.This was the suggesntion here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76602/new-elite-spec-disciple-weapon-swap-and-longbow

@lLobo.7960 said:The disciple is an elementalist that focus more on martial prowess than raw magic channeling.Focusing on martial expertise and physical prowess, the disciple can swap weapons in combat but looses the ability to have different and unique skills in each attunment and magical attacks.Instead, the disciple uses the elemental magic of attunements to boost its attacks and defenses and uses its weapons in martial combat instead of conduits to magic. To compensate the lack of long range magic attacks, the disciple uses a longbow to deliver his attacks from distance and physical skills to be mobile and effective in combat.

New weapon:

longbow

New utility skills:

physical skillsTL/DR: Martial focus elementalist with long range dps as longbow, weapon swap instead of individual attunement skills, mobility, new conditions (torment and poison), and even stealth with combos. Instead of one weapon with 20 new skills, gains one weapon with 5 new skills and new skills for each old weapon (staff 5, scepter 3, dagger 5, focus 2). Staff and dagger become melee versions, scepter becomes akin to mace and focus akin to shield.

I think weaver rewards you more for staying in an atument then say tempest as you get more dmg for going doable atument meaning you have to stay in that atument longer then an tempest when waiting for overloads (sadly the overload it self is not a ture reward for staying in that atument just an added effect.)

Core ele is the only version of ele that was true 2-3 atuments only though trait lines. Weaver and tempest both get use of the other atuments skill due to there added effects. Core ele got every thing from its trait line and trait lines alone.

[moony.5780]

@lLobo.7960 said:Tempest rewards you for staying in attunements longer, weaver rewards you for constantly swapping attunements and combining them.A spec with only two attunements is really... meh.Id rather see an elite spec that change how the attunements give you new skills (so skills are fixed per weapon) and gives you weapon swap.This was the suggesntion here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/76602/new-elite-spec-disciple-weapon-swap-and-longbow

@lLobo.7960 said:The disciple is an elementalist that focus more on martial prowess than raw magic channeling.Focusing on martial expertise and physical prowess, the disciple can swap weapons in combat but looses the ability to have different and unique skills in each attunment and magical attacks.Instead, the disciple uses the elemental magic of attunements to boost its attacks and defenses and uses its weapons in martial combat instead of conduits to magic. To compensate the lack of long range magic attacks, the disciple uses a longbow to deliver his attacks from distance and physical skills to be mobile and effective in combat.

New weapon:

longbow

New utility skills:

physical skillsTL/DR: Martial focus elementalist with long range dps as longbow, weapon swap instead of individual attunement skills, mobility, new conditions (torment and poison), and even stealth with combos. Instead of one weapon with 20 new skills, gains one weapon with 5 new skills and new skills for each old weapon (staff 5, scepter 3, dagger 5, focus 2). Staff and dagger become melee versions, scepter becomes akin to mace and focus akin to shield.

I also think like Jski, that tempest not help to stay in 1 attument(its only 6 seconds extra), even worse than weaver, i need to switch my attument more often and even switch to ones i dont want to use. In weaver i can switch between 2 always.

Honestly, I like the suggestion down, and it was also my first thought. But as this game can have multiple expansions, elementalist can have 10 different elite specialisations...so i think both suggestions worth tottaly different and are not destroying eachother. Im not suggesting things for the next expansion, because im 100% sure development on elite spec is already done and now its only balancing.

[lLobo.7960]

@Jski.6180 said:I think weaver rewards you more for staying in an atument then say tempest as you get more dmg for going doable atument meaning you have to stay in that atument longer then an tempest when waiting for overloads (sadly the overload it self is not a ture reward for staying in that atument just an added effect.)

The buff to dmg for dual attuning (and the buff to condi dmg for different attunement) are very short. If you stay on that attunement you quickly loose the buff and it will take 2 attunement swaps to recover it (swap to new attunement, swap to double attunement). So to keep the buff you need to swap attunement constantly, to have 100% uptime, you pretty much have to swap as soon as possible.0s - dual attuned (fire/fire), bonus triggered, 4s to change attunement,4s - swap to new atunnment (air/fire), 4s to change again,8s - swap to dual attune (air/air) refreshing the bonus.You need to use 2 attunments to pull this out, as trying to get back to the same single attunement you started would take another 4s. This can be improved a bit with Arcane trailine and alacrity.So yea, Weaver rewards fast and constant attunement swap.Tempest meanwhile, needs to stay in that attunement at least 6 secs to get the overload, and then its locked out of that attunment for a long time, so if you are specializing in something you mostly "camp" that attunement... Fire tempest (fire/arcane/tempest, or fire/earth/tempest for solo open world) camps fire all the time... Fresh air tempest only swaps attunement to bypass the longer overload CD, but it mostly "camps" air... Healing tempest mostly "camps" water, with the odd dip out for auras or other buffs...

@Jski.6180 said:Core ele is the only version of ele that was true 2-3 atuments only though trait lines. Weaver and tempest both get use of the other atuments skill due to there added effects. Core ele got every thing from its trait line and trait lines alone.Well... all ele specs have 4 attunements, but core ele is the only one that can (in theory) improve 3 of them... semantics really...The issue is, there isn't much of a reason to do so (most game modes push you to specialize), and there isn't much a way to do so well enough.If you want to do dmg, you'll go fire/air/X. X could be an elite spec (fresh air tempest, dps weaver). Core could be fire/air/arcane, or fire/air/water, but those are very inferior to the other options, mostly due to the power of overloads, dual skills, and the dps bonuses of e-spec traitlines.

For core ele to shine due to its ability to slot 3 elemental traitlines, those traitlines need to have a lot more synergy.

[Jski.6180]

@lLobo.7960 said:

@Jski.6180 said:I think weaver rewards you more for staying in an atument then say tempest as you get more dmg for going doable atument meaning you have to stay in that atument longer then an tempest when waiting for overloads (sadly the overload it self is not a ture reward for staying in that atument just an added effect.)

The buff to dmg for dual attuning (and the buff to condi dmg for different attunement) are very short. If you stay on that attunement you quickly loose the buff and it will take 2 attunement swaps to recover it (swap to new attunement, swap to double attunement). So to keep the buff you need to swap attunement constantly, to have 100% uptime, you pretty much have to swap as soon as possible.0s - dual attuned (fire/fire), bonus triggered, 4s to change attunement,4s - swap to new atunnment (air/fire), 4s to change again,8s - swap to dual attune (air/air) refreshing the bonus.You need to use 2 attunments to pull this out, as trying to get back to the same single attunement you started would take another 4s. This can be improved a bit with Arcane trailine and alacrity.So yea, Weaver rewards fast and constant attunement swap.Tempest meanwhile, needs to stay in that attunement at least 6 secs to get the overload, and then its locked out of that attunment for a long time, so if you are specializing in something you mostly "camp" that attunement... Fire tempest (fire/arcane/tempest, or fire/earth/tempest for solo open world) camps fire all the time... Fresh air tempest only swaps attunement to bypass the longer overload CD, but it mostly "camps" air... Healing tempest mostly "camps" water, with the odd dip out for auras or other buffs...

@Jski.6180 said:Core ele is the only version of ele that was true 2-3 atuments only though trait lines. Weaver and tempest both get use of the other atuments skill due to there added effects. Core ele got every thing from its trait line and trait lines alone.Well... all ele specs have 4 attunements, but core ele is the only one that can (in theory) improve 3 of them... semantics really...The issue is, there isn't much of a reason to do so (most game modes push you to specialize), and there isn't much a way to do so well enough.If you want to do dmg, you'll go fire/air/X. X could be an elite spec (fresh air tempest, dps weaver). Core could be fire/air/arcane, or fire/air/water, but those are very inferior to the other options, mostly due to the power of overloads, dual skills, and the dps bonuses of e-spec traitlines.

For core ele to shine due to its ability to slot 3 elemental traitlines, those traitlines need to have a lot more synergy.

The anasers are one in the same if a weaver swaps its main atument it loses the effect of that trait line witch is a massive dmg lost or healing lost meaning them staying in doable atument is more effective for there 5 big hits like core and tempest. The reward is massive for weaver to stay in doable atuments most of the time only jumping out of it just to reapply the dmg buff.

Core ele is about its atument line traits most then tempest and weaver as it can have 3 atument lines vs the elite spec having only 2 at most. The thing is the way this game is balanced arone gear more then any thing else your not seeing your core ele healing and dpsing at the same becuse of the need for power dmg effect AND healing power. So by letting core ele get all of the atument trait lines it is in makes it more of an atument class then say tempest and weaver.

[lLobo.7960]

@Jski.6180 said:The anasers are one in the same if a weaver swaps its main atument it loses the effect of that trait line witch is a massive dmg lost or healing lost meaning them staying in doable atument is more effective for there 5 big hits like core and tempest. The reward is massive for weaver to stay in doable atuments most of the time only jumping out of it just to reapply the dmg buff.

That would be true if it was not for dual attunement.That is why DPS sword weaver goes int water/fire to use the dual skills, charge fire grab and swap into air/air (with fresh air) or air/water right before the skill lands to increase the crit dmg (with fresh air and air traits). As soon as the Power dps weaver is in a single attunement it needs to swap again otherwise will loose its dps buff.That is why fire condi weaver can (and have to) rotate attunements to keep his condi buffs instead of camping fire like fire condi tempest does (and has done so since it was condi meta in the early HOT raids). But the fire condi weaver can rotate attunements without ever being completely out of fire. When it goes in Air, it doesnt use the air skills, it uses the offhand fire skills and dual attack (if the player knows what is doing), then it goes back into fire and doesnt use the air offhand skills, unless it needs the CC. The next rotation it doesnt go into air again, but earth, And not for the earth skills, but just to keep the attunement rotation for buffs, again it will use the dual skill and the offhand fire skills...

Weaver is about quickly rotating attunements. Tempest is about prolonging them.

[Jski.6180]

@lLobo.7960 said:

@Jski.6180 said:The anasers are one in the same if a weaver swaps its main atument it loses the effect of that trait line witch is a massive dmg lost or healing lost meaning them staying in doable atument is more effective for there 5 big hits like core and tempest. The reward is massive for weaver to stay in doable atuments most of the time only jumping out of it just to reapply the dmg buff.

That would be true if it was not for dual attunement.That is why DPS sword weaver goes int water/fire to use the dual skills, charge fire grab and swap into air/air (with fresh air) or air/water right before the skill lands to increase the crit dmg (with fresh air and air traits). As soon as the Power dps weaver is in a single attunement it needs to swap again otherwise will loose its dps buff.That is why fire condi weaver can (and have to) rotate attunements to keep his condi buffs instead of camping fire like fire condi tempest does (and has done so since it was condi meta in the early HOT raids). But the fire condi weaver can rotate attunements without ever being completely out of fire. When it goes in Air, it doesnt use the air skills, it uses the offhand fire skills and dual attack (if the player knows what is doing), then it goes back into fire and doesnt use the air offhand skills, unless it needs the CC. The next rotation it doesnt go into air again, but earth, And not for the earth skills, but just to keep the attunement rotation for buffs, again it will use the dual skill and the offhand fire skills...

Weaver is about quickly rotating attunements. Tempest is about prolonging them.

The thing about dual skills are they are still very much base off your main atument if your traited in that atument trait line. MS is usable as earth fire but your still going to get more out of Fire Fire MS. There a lot of reward for weaver to go doable atument and to sit there for the cd of your dmg dual skills. Much like core ele gets more out of staying in fire during its big channel skills and tempest staying in fire during or after its big channel overload.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Maybe make it just one element only, but with a selection of all-new spammable elite skills. (Only one per active build)In Guild Wars 1, I had a lot of fun spamming high-damage fire nukes like searing flames.Another option for a one-element only could be to cherry pick skills from various weapons to one skill bar. No weapon swapping as skills are no longer tied to the weapon.

[Fueki.4753]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:Maybe make it just one element only, but with a selection of all-new spammable elite skills. (Only one per active build)In Guild Wars 1, I had a lot of fun spamming high-damage fire nukes like searing flames.Another option for a one-element only could be to cherry pick skills from various weapons to one skill bar. No weapon swapping as skills are no longer tied to the weapon.

If just one Element is available, they should make it so that it's only in combat and can be changed freely out of combat.In exchange, Elementalist ought to be able to swap weapons in combat.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:Maybe make it

just one element only

, but with a selection of all-new spammable elite skills. (Only one per active build)In Guild Wars 1, I had a lot of fun spamming high-damage fire nukes like searing flames.Another option for a one-element only could be to cherry pick skills from various weapons to one skill bar. No weapon swapping as skills are no longer tied to the weapon.

If just one Element is available, they should make it so that it's only in combat and can be changed freely out of combat.In exchange, Elementalist ought to be able to swap weapons in combat.

Why? In GW1, you could only change builds in town and most eles ran one element with energy storage as support.

The idea of having just one element is that you can excel in it and pick a role.Fire: Nuking. Massive DPS landing on multiple targets. Burning. AOE. Spells like Searing Flames, Savannah Heat, Rodgort Invocation, and the stuff we already have in GW2.Water: Trolling. Freezing. Snares. Healing. Protection. Supporting.Earth: Very tanky. Mid DPS. Bleeding. Stability. Knockdowns. Snares.Air: Super speed, Spike damage, pushes and pulls, highest DPS to single target.

[Fueki.4753]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:Maybe make it

just one element only

, but with a selection of all-new spammable elite skills. (Only one per active build)In Guild Wars 1, I had a lot of fun spamming high-damage fire nukes like searing flames.Another option for a one-element only could be to cherry pick skills from various weapons to one skill bar. No weapon swapping as skills are no longer tied to the weapon.

If just one Element is available, they should make it so that it's only in combat and can be changed freely out of combat.In exchange, Elementalist ought to be able to swap weapons in combat.

Why? In GW1, you could only change builds in town and most eles ran one element with energy storage as support.

The idea of having just one element is that you can excel in it and pick a role.Fire: Nuking. Massive DPS landing on multiple targets. Burning. AOE. Spells like Searing Flames, Savannah Heat, Rodgort Invocation, and the stuff we already have in GW2.Water: Trolling. Freezing. Snares. Healing. Protection. Supporting.Earth: Very tanky. Mid DPS. Bleeding. Stability. Knockdowns. Snares.Air: Super speed, Spike damage, pushes and pulls, highest DPS to single target.

We don't have the same kind of outposts anymore in GW2. There closest equivalent now is being flagged out of combat.Or are you suggesting the new Elite Specialization can only change elements in Lion's Arch, Eye of the North, Sun's Refuge and the five racial capitals?

[TheQuickFox.3826]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:Maybe make it

just one element only

, but with a selection of all-new spammable elite skills. (Only one per active build)In Guild Wars 1, I had a lot of fun spamming high-damage fire nukes like searing flames.Another option for a one-element only could be to cherry pick skills from various weapons to one skill bar. No weapon swapping as skills are no longer tied to the weapon.

If just one Element is available, they should make it so that it's only in combat and can be changed freely out of combat.In exchange, Elementalist ought to be able to swap weapons in combat.

Why? In GW1, you could only change builds in town and most eles ran one element with energy storage as support.

The idea of having just one element is that you can excel in it and pick a role.Fire: Nuking. Massive DPS landing on multiple targets. Burning. AOE. Spells like Searing Flames, Savannah Heat, Rodgort Invocation, and the stuff we already have in GW2.Water: Trolling. Freezing. Snares. Healing. Protection. Supporting.Earth: Very tanky. Mid DPS. Bleeding. Stability. Knockdowns. Snares.Air: Super speed, Spike damage, pushes and pulls, highest DPS to single target.

We don't have the same kind of outposts anymore in GW2. There closest equivalent now is being flagged out of combat.Or are you suggesting the new Elite Specialization can only change elements in Lion's Arch, Eye of the North, Sun's Refuge and the five racial capitals?

You are right. Maybe out-of-combat swapping would be the closest thing. But these are details. Question is mostly if we would like a single attunement elite spec.

[Fueki.4753]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:You are right. Maybe out-of-combat swapping would be the closest thing. But these are details. Question is mostly if we would like a single attunement elite spec.

Since I always camp Fire when playing with my Tempests (unless I run away, then I switch to Air),I'd definitely like an Elite Specialization that focuses on staying in one Attunement.

[moony.5780]

@"TheQuickFox.3826" said:The idea of having just one element is that you can excel in it and pick a role.Fire: Nuking. Massive DPS landing on multiple targets. Burning. AOE. Spells like Searing Flames, Savannah Heat, Rodgort Invocation, and the stuff we already have in GW2.Water: Trolling. Freezing. Snares. Healing. Protection. Supporting.Earth: Very tanky. Mid DPS. Bleeding. Stability. Knockdowns. Snares.Air: Super speed, Spike damage, pushes and pulls, highest DPS to single target.

Sounds really cool for me :) Actually thats what i thought elementalist gona be after playing GW1. I love GW2 elementalist how it is, but i think its really boring if all elite specs gona have the "Master of none" playstyle. But traits rely on switching elements....so thats why i thought haveing only 2 elements will be easier to implement.

[Kodama.6453]

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:Maybe make it

just one element only

, but with a selection of all-new spammable elite skills. (Only one per active build)In Guild Wars 1, I had a lot of fun spamming high-damage fire nukes like searing flames.Another option for a one-element only could be to cherry pick skills from various weapons to one skill bar. No weapon swapping as skills are no longer tied to the weapon.

If just one Element is available, they should make it so that it's only in combat and can be changed freely out of combat.In exchange, Elementalist ought to be able to swap weapons in combat.

Why? In GW1, you could only change builds in town and most eles ran one element with energy storage as support.

The idea of having just one element is that you can excel in it and pick a role.Fire: Nuking. Massive DPS landing on multiple targets. Burning. AOE. Spells like Searing Flames, Savannah Heat, Rodgort Invocation, and the stuff we already have in GW2.Water: Trolling. Freezing. Snares. Healing. Protection. Supporting.Earth: Very tanky. Mid DPS. Bleeding. Stability. Knockdowns. Snares.Air: Super speed, Spike damage, pushes and pulls, highest DPS to single target.

We don't have the same kind of outposts anymore in GW2. There closest equivalent now is being flagged out of combat.Or are you suggesting the new Elite Specialization can only change elements in Lion's Arch, Eye of the North, Sun's Refuge and the five racial capitals?

You are right. Maybe out-of-combat swapping would be the closest thing. But these are details. Question is mostly if we would like a single attunement elite spec.

Just one attunement wouldn't suffice, I think. The trait system is not built for it.

Picking an elite spec leaves you able to pick 2 core trait lines. For example, if I pick earth and fire, then I get benefits if I am in these 2 attunements. However, if I can just have a single attunement, then one of these trait benefits is not available for me, since I am locked out of it.Not to mention that all traits which work on attunement swap would stop to function in this case.

The idea to restrict elementalist's attunements is good, but it should still have access to 2 attunements to ensure that trait combinations are working (you can pick the 2 trait lines fitting your attunements on top of the elite spec line) and also that the attunement swap traits still function.

[Fueki.4753]

@Kodama.6453 said:Not to mention that all traits which work on attunement swap would stop to function in this case.

They could just have weapon swap be affected be those traits.If there is only one Attunement during combat, there is no reason for Elementalist to be locked out of in-combat swapping.

[necromaniac.7629]

Budget weaver?

[Kodama.6453]

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:Not to mention that all traits which work on attunement swap would stop to function in this case.

They could just have weapon swap be affected be those traits.If there is only one Attunement during combat, there is no reason for Elementalist to be locked out of in-combat swapping.

This is true, but there is still the problem with not getting the earth related trait line benefits while being locked into fire, for example.

Unless you want all of the element buffs apply on the same attunement, which would be kinda odd in my opinion. Weaver getting 2 at the same time is thematically fine, since they are attuned to 2 elements at the same time, so it makes sense that they have the benefits of both earth and fire. But if this new elite spec makes you just locked into 1 attunement, it would be odd thematically to also get the benefits of another element while having nothing to do with it....

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

I like it, give it shortbow cauz we totally need a spellarcher :3I would reorganize the weapon skill in this way: you choose main element and second element(both switchable out of combat like rev legends) then instead of just having the third skill changed like weaver, you keep the original ones you have but instead they all get a second version based on the 2nd element which you can choose when to activate.You basically have still 20 skills, 10(5+5 per main element) original wep skills + the 10 (5+5 per 2nd element) switched. Ofc you can swap main element like rev would swap legends.All the switched skill contribute to a buff that when fully charged lets you with no cd switch beetwen the main and second element so you can cast the improved skill in whatever order you like thus improving your comboing ability. When this mode ends you have increased cd on you ability to activate the second elements buffed skills.