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Ranger Barrage is Broken in WvW


Zolazie Grengche.3051

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Barrage is meant to not be constrained by line of sight. However, it should be changed so the barrage arrows act as projectiles so they can be blocked by the associated skills. The reason I'm guessing they don't is because it would be too costly to do this (i.e. make barrage make a bunch of actual arrows, rather than just the graphics).

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The damage on barrage is more of tickle anyway, unless you're being hit by a full power/booned soulbeast utilizing sic 'em with other damage multipliers and you choose to eat the entire AoE duration (like if you choose not to hop off your arrow cart for a couple of seconds) instead of moving out of it. The only time it's kind of silly is if you mistform through a portal into your own structure and only after that the ranger bypasses the wall by barraging you. I don't really feel eles should be able to travel through portals while in downstate anyway, so... I don't feel too bad about that.I think it's an attempt to give rangers a niche means of contributing to the actual gamemode (as opposed to simply being a solid option for roaming, which anyone can do) through being siege clearers. Like how engis can hit siege on the back of walls with their arching mortars, or how thieves can evade enemies and then port folks into walled structures. Rangers don't really do any of that.

It is kind of silly trying to bring logic into why the barrage doesn't need line of sight. Last time I checked, meteors also fall from the sky.

~ Kovu

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Barrage isn't projectile.Arrows do not go from A to B in a line they go from A to B vertically in an arch.

Watch any movie or TV show where they have archers or catapult's firing into the air and see exactly how Barrage works mechanically.

Rangers often cannot see where they are putting a barrage over a wall and have to rely on their own familiarity with the skills range and the knowledge of where their out of sight target is.That is a measure of skill if you ask me.. or just blatant luck xD

Best thing about Barrage though, it's mind numbingly easy for players to avoid with basic combat rules like.. Don't stand in the red circles! XD

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@Zhou Yu.5619 said:Yeah they will justify barrage with real life arrow logic but ignore grenades and how bullets in the game magically stop at 900 rng

Exactly this.Because ANet apparently changed this intentionally, there's no reason to argue that it shouldn't be doing what it does. But people trying to defend it with IRL logic are also being ridiculous. Half the skills in the game should be able to hit behind walls if we're going for complete realism, since it's a freaking fantasy game I'm sure magical skills would be able to ignore walls, no?

Again though, the vast majority of Rangers aren't smart enough to take advantage of it anyway so most times it's not a problem. And when it is, maybe it's time people get more familiar with what their skills do rather than what Siege does.

@Strider Pj.2193 said:** Gray.6029Gaile Gray.6029May 8, 2018Late Notes: May 8, 2018

05/08/2018—May 8 Release Notes

Profession Skills

Ranger

Barrage: Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from being targeted in certain areas blocked by line of sight.Fanged Iboga—Consuming Bite: Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from increasing its damage based on the number of conditions on the target.Canine—Crippling Leap (Soulbeast): Fixed a bug in which the displayed range of this skill was lower than intended.Canine—Brutal Charge (Soulbeast): Fixed a bug in which the displayed range of this skill was higher than intended.**

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@"Gudradain.3892" said:Well, if we only look at the thematic side, I think it works pretty well. The idea of the skill is to shoot arrow up in the air and they fall down in the area you designed. So, line of sight should not matter.

Sure, and while we're at it elementalist meteor shouldn't haven't line of sight either, since it's just rocks that fall out of the sky, they should just fall down in the area you decide. They have limits to other "physical" attacks in the game, it should apply to arrows too, because this isn't an irl simulator, it's a game with pvp that requires balancing.

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@Kovu.7560 said:The damage on barrage is more of tickle anyway, unless you're being hit by a full power/booned soulbeast utilizing sic 'em with other damage multipliers and you choose to eat the entire AoE duration (like if you choose not to hop off your arrow cart for a couple of seconds) instead of moving out of it. The only time it's kind of silly is if you mistform through a portal into your own structure and only after that the ranger bypasses the wall by barraging you. I don't really feel eles should be able to travel through portals while in downstate anyway, so... I don't feel too bad about that.I think it's an attempt to give rangers a niche means of contributing to the actual gamemode (as opposed to simply being a solid option for roaming, which anyone can do) through being siege clearers. Like how engis can hit siege on the back of walls with their arching mortars, or how thieves can evade enemies and then port folks into walled structures. Rangers don't really do any of that.

It is kind of silly trying to bring logic into why the barrage doesn't need line of sight. Last time I checked, meteors also fall from the sky.

~ Kovu

I do not think i ever seen you do this when i played with you lol.

If your using it to full down an ele your waiting the effect as well as this is not the reason why its broken in wvw. You use it vs sigese you have an skill that has less of a LOS issues then AC now. The problem with the skill is it get stronger the more you exploited the game as in you must have a ground target and see it with your 3ed person view. This skill is far worst then any MS AC even eng morder kit if rangers knew what they where doing this skill would be on the chopping block for an update to need LOS.

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@Solanum.6983 said:Hitting behind walls isn't exclusive to Ranger longbow. It's a setting in the controls where you can snap aoe's to your target without LOS.Barrage is no different than other ranged aoes like meteor shower, Just because it's got the theme of arrows doesn't mean it should be a projectile.

Only barrage and i think line of warding works like that all other AoE ground targets needs LOS even with snap aoe it will just not cast (or will but not on the target but where i cant i am not comply sure).

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@Jski.6180 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:The damage on barrage is more of tickle anyway, unless you're being hit by a full power/booned soulbeast utilizing sic 'em with other damage multipliers and you
choose
to eat the entire AoE duration (like if you choose not to hop off your arrow cart for a couple of seconds) instead of moving out of it. The only time it's kind of silly is if you mistform through a portal into your own structure and only after that the ranger bypasses the wall by barraging you. I don't really feel eles should be able to travel through portals while in downstate anyway, so... I don't feel too bad about that.I think it's an attempt to give rangers a niche means of contributing to the actual gamemode (as opposed to simply being a solid option for roaming, which anyone can do) through being siege clearers. Like how engis can hit siege on the back of walls with their arching mortars, or how thieves can evade enemies and then port folks into walled structures. Rangers don't really do any of that.

It is kind of silly trying to bring logic into
why
the barrage doesn't need line of sight. Last time I checked, meteors also fall from the sky.

~ Kovu

I do not think i ever seen you do this when i played with you lol.

If your using it to full down an ele your waiting the effect as well as this is not the reason why its broken in wvw. You use it vs sigese you have an skill that has less of a LOS issues then AC now. The problem with the skill is it get stronger the more you exploited the game as in you must have a ground target and see it with your 3ed person view. This skill is far worst then any MS AC even eng morder kit if rangers knew what they where doing this skill would be on the chopping block for an update to need LOS.

It happens on occasion. It only comes up a number of times per week I can count on 1 hand, and I don't usually call out that I'm doing it. If barrage is off cooldown and an ele (or anyone) is in downstate within a structure you can bet I'll snap target a barrage on them.

The skill isn't broken, as pointed out earlier in the thread several times it is working as the developers intended. It's supposed to be a skill that doesn't require line of sight to activate. Is it fair? That's more subjective, though I gave my opinion on why its okay in the post you quoted.Barrage is a profession specific weapon mechanic with a 20s cooldown, a cast time that roots the ranger and a target cap of 5 whereas arrow carts can be spammed, have a range of 2,500 (plus the radius), have a target cap of 25 and can in some cases reveal stealthed targets in addition to long duration applications of bleed and poison. The two aren't even comparable.

Frankly, I'm for them adding more skills that can help to clear siege.

@Solanum.6983 said:Hitting behind walls isn't exclusive to Ranger longbow. It's a setting in the controls where you can snap aoe's to your target without LOS.Barrage is no different than other ranged aoes like meteor shower, Just because it's got the theme of arrows doesn't mean it should be a projectile.

There is a difference. You cannot use most aoe effects to target areas out of the player's line of sight. Though there do seem to be a small number of other effects (traits?) that bypass this restriction. I never think to check my combat log when I take random damage while inside a structure.

~ Kovu

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@Kovu.7560 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:The damage on barrage is more of tickle anyway, unless you're being hit by a full power/booned soulbeast utilizing sic 'em with other damage multipliers and you
choose
to eat the entire AoE duration (like if you choose not to hop off your arrow cart for a couple of seconds) instead of moving out of it. The only time it's kind of silly is if you mistform through a portal into your own structure and only after that the ranger bypasses the wall by barraging you. I don't really feel eles should be able to travel through portals while in downstate anyway, so... I don't feel too bad about that.I think it's an attempt to give rangers a niche means of contributing to the actual gamemode (as opposed to simply being a solid option for roaming, which anyone can do) through being siege clearers. Like how engis can hit siege on the back of walls with their arching mortars, or how thieves can evade enemies and then port folks into walled structures. Rangers don't really do any of that.

It is kind of silly trying to bring logic into
why
the barrage doesn't need line of sight. Last time I checked, meteors also fall from the sky.

~ Kovu

I do not think i ever seen you do this when i played with you lol.

If your using it to full down an ele your waiting the effect as well as this is not the reason why its broken in wvw. You use it vs sigese you have an skill that has less of a LOS issues then AC now. The problem with the skill is it get stronger the more you exploited the game as in you must have a ground target and see it with your 3ed person view. This skill is far worst then any MS AC even eng morder kit if rangers knew what they where doing this skill would be on the chopping block for an update to need LOS.

It happens on occasion. It only comes up a number of times per week I can count on 1 hand, and I don't usually call out that I'm doing it. If barrage is off cooldown and an ele (or anyone) is in downstate within a structure you can bet I'll snap target a barrage on them.

The skill isn't broken, as pointed out earlier in the thread several times it is working as the developers intended. It's supposed to be a skill that doesn't require line of sight to activate. Is it fair? That's more subjective, though I gave my opinion on why its okay in the post you quoted.Barrage is a profession specific weapon mechanic with a 20s cooldown, a cast time that roots the ranger and a target cap of 5 whereas arrow carts can be spammed, have a range of 2,500 (plus the radius), have a target cap of 25 and can in some cases reveal stealthed targets in addition to applications of bleed and poison (in addition to cripple). The two aren't even comparable.

Frankly, I'm for them adding
more
skills that can help to clear siege.

@Solanum.6983 said:Hitting behind walls isn't exclusive to Ranger longbow. It's a setting in the controls where you can snap aoe's to your target without LOS.Barrage is no different than other ranged aoes like meteor shower, Just because it's got the theme of arrows doesn't mean it should be a projectile.

There is a difference. You cannot use most aoe effects to target areas out of the player's line of sight. Though there do seem to be a small number of other effects (traits?) that bypass this restriction.

~ Kovu

Your missing the point most non LOS skills are not ground targeted if they are you can zoom out your view more then you are normally allowed to and make barrages much more effect at hitting spots you should not be able to. Ppl do not do this often enofe to see it but it is used vs siege and that messes up siege vs siege game play in wvw. There by braking wvw balancing.

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I swear, I should start making some diary called "Dumbest excuses to keep broken stuff in game" and write down what you've posted here. Works as intended? Because you pewpew into the air and not target at ground? What else?If you want to keep your pewpew without LoS I want the damage nerfed by minimum 50% since "you don't see where you pewpew so a lot of arrows should miss it's target by default". If you don't agree to either, I want Dragon Tooth and many other skills to get it's nerfs reversed and be able to hit targets without LoS as well, maybe even turn back Engineers Mortar kit to it's stationary version so it can hit with arcs inside objective, cause why not? I can also agree for a full rework of how Barrage works to something like "You charge the power of your skill for 3s which will determine where the AoE will land between 300 and 1500 range away from you" - meaning you lose your "AoE" indicator on ground and have to manually calculate the power needed to cast your skill in the place you want, the longer you'll hold that skill button the furher it'll go, so if you've casted skill for a full duration of 3s you'll cast it at max range(1,5k), if you just click (0.1s cast time) it'll appear closest. Then it can be justifed to hit inside objectives.

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@"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:I swear, I should start making some diary called "Dumbest excuses to keep broken stuff in game" and write down what you've posted here. Works as intended? Because you pewpew into the air and not target at ground? What else?If you want to keep your pewpew without LoS I want the damage nerfed by minimum 50% since "you don't see where you pewpew so a lot of arrows should miss it's target by default". If you don't agree to either, I want Dragon Tooth and many other skills to get it's nerfs reversed and be able to hit targets without LoS as well, maybe even turn back Engineers Mortar kit to it's stationary version so it can hit with arcs inside objective, cause why not? I can also agree for a full rework of how Barrage works to something like "You charge the power of your skill for 3s which will determine where the AoE will land between 300 and 1500 range away from you" - meaning you lose your "AoE" indicator on ground and have to manually calculate the power needed to cast your skill in the place you want, the longer you'll hold that skill button the furher it'll go, so if you've casted skill for a full duration of 3s you'll cast it at max range(1,5k), if you just click (0.1s cast time) it'll appear closest. Then it can be justifed to hit inside objectives.

You aren’t a Ranger obviously. Anywhere that I target behind a wall I can see. You can’t use the skill without being able to land the marker. I have to be able to see my target marker on something before I can fire off the barrage. If I can place the target marker, you’re gonna get hit if you don’t move. ?

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@Justine.6351 said:Would be funny if they made them projectiles, and then made them unblockable :p

Make them like MS or any other AoE and need the cast spot to be LOS but make the arrows objects that his 3 targets per arrow. Long bow is an dps wepon.

LOS is super important in this game and it should not be something you can simply ignore.

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