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When will Weaver follow the Mirage?


Akilles.4320

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

It doesn't matter really...you could put Obsidian flesh on a 180s CD and you'd still have people claiming that ele is fine as they can go d/f and be invulnerable, dunno what else there is left to nerf on weaver:

You dunno what's left to nerf on Weaver? Ok let me tell you, THE MIRAGE TREATMENT!After the only 1 dodge at PvP no more nerfs were needed to mirage, something on the line like that to Weaver would solve it.Dont nerf anymore something that can arm Core Ele's or Tempest, it's just the Weaver that's needed to be dealed with.

@Salt Mode.3780 said:not one class should receive the mirage treatment

And yet here we are.

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@Akilles.4320 said:

It doesn't matter really...you could put Obsidian flesh on a 180s CD and you'd still have people claiming that ele is fine as they can go d/f and be invulnerable, dunno what else there is left to nerf on weaver:

You dunno what's left to nerf on Weaver? Ok let me tell you, THE MIRAGE TREATMENT!After the only 1 dodge at PvP no more nerfs were needed to mirage, something on the line like that to Weaver would solve it.Dont nerf anymore something that can arm Core Ele's or Tempest, it's just the Weaver that's needed to be dealed with.

@Salt Mode.3780 said:not one class should receive the mirage treatment

And yet here we are.

If you really believe a class should get the mirage treatment, you just want to butcher it rather than balance it. Absolutely nobody, except you apparently, thinks that what Anet did to mirage was a good thing and it should not only be reverted on Mirage but never be considered again.

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@Akilles.4320 said:

@Akilles.4320 said:The ranked system and the matchmaker are the most serious problems PvP has right now.But people like to opt for the easiest way which is to ask for nerfs.

Am I reading it wrong? or are you now asking for the easy way and to nerf?:eyes:

And those 2 problems are still the worst in PvP right now, but by the time I wrote that, every build meta or not, had a counter, mostly, right now Weaver counters got nerfed so you Weaver players here defending that it is fine, you know that's a lie.Basically Weavers got too much of everything, while their counters got nerfed, Weaver nerfs aren't on pair, it needs to be tuned down.

You got called out here for doing the exact thing you accused others of. Trying to make excuses doesn't change the fact that you're a giant hypocrite wanting to nerf the class you don't like dealing with.

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@Akilles.4320 said:

It doesn't matter really...you could put Obsidian flesh on a 180s CD and you'd still have people claiming that ele is fine as they can go d/f and be invulnerable, dunno what else there is left to nerf on weaver:

You dunno what's left to nerf on Weaver? Ok let me tell you, THE MIRAGE TREATMENT!After the only 1 dodge at PvP no more nerfs were needed to mirage, something on the line like that to Weaver would solve it.Dont nerf anymore something that can arm Core Ele's or Tempest, it's just the Weaver that's needed to be dealed with.

@Salt Mode.3780 said:not one class should receive the mirage treatment

And yet here we are.

I hope nobody listens to this guy. Seriously? What they did to mirage was just lazy and embarrassing. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to give a class with endless teleports, stealth, and target breaks the ability to basically ignore CC as well, but the solution was inelegant to say the least. You have to be some kind of salty losing to a class to suggest doing the same again.

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@AliamRationem.5172 said:

It doesn't matter really...you could put Obsidian flesh on a 180s CD and you'd still have people claiming that ele is fine as they can go d/f and be invulnerable, dunno what else there is left to nerf on weaver:

You dunno what's left to nerf on Weaver? Ok let me tell you, THE MIRAGE TREATMENT!After the only 1 dodge at PvP no more nerfs were needed to mirage, something on the line like that to Weaver would solve it.Dont nerf anymore something that can arm Core Ele's or Tempest, it's just the Weaver that's needed to be dealed with.

@Salt Mode.3780 said:not one class should receive the mirage treatment

And yet here we are.

I hope nobody listens to this guy. Seriously? What they did to mirage was just lazy and embarrassing. Maybe it wasn't such a good idea to give a class with endless teleports, stealth, and target breaks the ability to basically ignore CC as well, but the solution was inelegant to say the least. You have to be some kind of salty losing to a class to suggest doing the same again.

i think u just summed up what a thief is instead of a mesmer. mesmers have limited amount of teleports mirage having 1 more then core and chrono, stealth again is limited with high cd. regardless fact tht eles have to manage 4 attunements they have a higher skill management/combo then most classes. weavers already got countless nerfs on their sustain i can only say probably in spvp adjust the numbersmirage treatment is the laziest thing the devs couldve done to balance a class no class should receive a core mechanic nerf

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The best I can think of is giving water sword 2 the same treatment Mesmer sword 2 got.

That skill was actually a problem before and seeing the similarities here with Weaver, they could do the same to lightly tone down the uptime on evade without hurting much else.

So really speeding it up.

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Too much access to barrier. Too much untellable burning with sunspot and flame expulsion. Giving those an internal cd might help. Weaver has a rough range of 300 so staying outside that range severly reduces burn output. I think its a problem with their defences and not their offense since it can be played around.

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@FrownyClown.8402 said:Too much access to barrier. Too much untellable burning with sunspot and flame expulsion. Giving those an internal cd might help. Weaver has a rough range of 300 so staying outside that range severly reduces burn output. I think its a problem with their defences and not their offense since it can be played around.

  1. Flame expulsion has a very obvious tell. It's a red circle that slowly gets bigger
  2. Giving it an ICD would be a buff anyway. It would allow the weaver to maintain their might stacks.
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Never. Because Mirage is a mesmer and Weaver is an Ele. The Mantra is "Mesmer is OP and broken." No matter the evidence. Historic lack of top placement, Historic in slot replacement, easily identifiable and counter able mechanics, reasonable fair openings; sometimes even more than other classes. Only one damage type dominating while the other barely thrives, proving the survivability mechanics aren't the issue. It doesn't matter: Mesmer broken OP and must be destroyed.

Old Cele Ele on the other hand is the ideal CMC sees for every class.... Except Memser.

Weaver isn't OP, it's intended.

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@"Daishi.6027" said:Never. Because Mirage is a mesmer and Weaver is an Ele. The Mantra is "Mesmer is OP and broken." No matter the evidence. Historic lack of top placement, Historic in slot replacement, easily identifiable and counter able mechanics, reasonable fair openings; sometimes even less than other classes. Only one damage type dominating while the other barely thrives, proving the survivability mechanics aren't the issue. It doesn't matter: Mesmer broken OP and must be destroyed.

Old Cele Ele on the other hand is the ideal CMC sees for every class.... Except Memser.

Weaver isn't OP, it's intended.

Yes, bring back cele DD ele and watch it make no difference to PvP anyway

On a more serious note, there are people who actually want balance and then people who, when they die, cry out that it's not them who need to improve, but the class is just too strong and cry out for nerfs, this post is just silly as it wasn't weavers deciding how to balance Mirage and generally the majority of the community doesn't agree with how Anet dealt with Mirage (I say majority because there will be a few people silently happy about the nerfs to mirage).

I have nothing else to say to this post seeing as it's not about balance but to just butcher a class because your still salty about Mirage nerfs

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@Shao.7236 said:The best I can think of is giving water sword 2 the same treatment Mesmer sword 2 got.

That skill was actually a problem before and seeing the similarities here with Weaver, they could do the same to lightly tone down the uptime on evade without hurting much else.

So really speeding it up.

Lots of people suggested a shorter evade uptime and same CD, so you could still use the water field but needed to actually time the evades. They decided to increase the CD of a weapon skill 2 to 18 seconds...

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Too much access to barrier. Too much untellable burning with sunspot and flame expulsion. Giving those an internal cd might help. Weaver has a rough range of 300 so staying outside that range severly reduces burn output. I think its a problem with their defences and not their offense since it can be played around.

Flame expulsion applies 1 single burning stack. Yes, the duration can be extended, but the tell is incredibly obvious.Weaver has nothing like a range of 300. Most weapon skills have a range of 130. Primordial stance has a radius of 180. Pyro Vortexes have a radius of 90...

I do agree about some random burning decrease if you add the burning to burst skills. But do we really want condi bursts back?Also some barrier and/or projectile denial could be reduced. A solution would be not to force ele into focus anymore. :angry:But only if all the other good builds get nerfs too. Otherwise it would be extremely unreasonable.

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Lava Skin could get slightly tuned down, not too hard since its VERY important for Sword.Stone Resonance both as a Passive and as an Active needs being toned down. Stone Resonance makes it very EASY to play Weaver. Mistakes don't matter with it really, just nerfing this by 50% or so would make the average Weaver die in many situations where they should but aren't.No one likes Mud Slide I guess but I know this thread is about Fire Weaver and this is not a Fire Weaver skill. CD increases are always weird though for Ele, maybe just make it NOT hit twice ever like I think its supposed to not.A big change would be revamping scaling with Healing Power. I'm not sure if this would kill Weaver running Healing Power amulets or not, or if it would kill the class. Not good with the actual numbers, ideally we'd get a patch of just Stone Resonance getting gutted and then if thats not enough this change next.

People seem to like how Fire Weaver counters condis, but you could tone Smothering Aura transmutes down to 1. Not even a big concern of accidently nerfing Core Ele or Tempest with this change.Don't nerf Weavers damage though, its not fun thinking 30+ seconds in advance and still not being able to kill someone with a Gale Tailored Victory Pyro Vortex.Its actually stupid how you have 0 reliable finishing techniques on Fire Weaver, even into people who waste 1 stunbreak or 2+ dodges.

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@Mini Crinny.6190 said:

@"Daishi.6027" said:Never. Because Mirage is a mesmer and Weaver is an Ele. The Mantra is "Mesmer is OP and broken." No matter the evidence. Historic lack of top placement, Historic in slot replacement, easily identifiable and counter able mechanics, reasonable fair openings; sometimes even less than other classes. Only one damage type dominating while the other barely thrives, proving the survivability mechanics aren't the issue. It doesn't matter: Mesmer broken OP and must be destroyed.

Old Cele Ele on the other hand is the ideal CMC sees for every class.... Except Memser.

Weaver isn't OP, it's intended.

Yes, bring back cele DD ele and watch it make no difference to PvP anyway

On a more serious note, there are people who actually want balance and then people who, when they die, cry out that it's not them who need to improve, but the class is just too strong and cry out for nerfs, this post is just silly as it wasn't weavers deciding how to balance Mirage and generally the majority of the community doesn't agree with how Anet dealt with Mirage (I say majority because there will be a few people silently happy about the nerfs to mirage).

I have nothing else to say to this post seeing as it's not about balance but to just butcher a class because your still salty about Mirage nerfs

You're quick to ascribe motive; I never said to butcher another class nor ever blamed weaver. The title and OP brought up mirages, meaning the standard and comparison needs to be stated. This game has a historic amount of inequality and double standards regarding mesmer since release, many that fly the face of of factual evidence that never is addressed. So I don't see why I shouldn't make a sarcastic post now that people are asking for what happened to mirage, to happen to another class. Which as anyone who matters would agree; isn't good balancing.

I know you weren't being serious but for those with spectrum levels of shortsightedness: I only pointed out that the STATE of old Cele ele is CMC's ideal, clearly with any level of inference I didn't mean the literal specific build.

Anyways my take away was that Weaver isn't OP and that it's intended, that isn't to imply nerfs. Maybe I should have clarified but that part wasn't sarcastic.

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@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:Fire weaver is strong yes, but there are only 2 ways they should be able to kill you. 1 is if you blindly attack them and facetank their aoe. 2 is if they bait your cds and then cc burst you. Its a side noder build, they can hold a node but are easy to kite and they have their weaknesses in 1v1s.

Sword air 2?Lightning Flash?

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@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Shao.7236 said:The best I can think of is giving water sword 2 the same treatment Mesmer sword 2 got.

That skill was actually a problem before and seeing the similarities here with Weaver, they could do the same to lightly tone down the uptime on evade without hurting much else.

So really speeding it up.

Lots of people suggested a shorter evade uptime and same CD, so you could still use the water field but needed to actually time the evades. They decided to increase the CD of a weapon skill 2 to 18 seconds...

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Too much access to barrier. Too much untellable burning with sunspot and flame expulsion. Giving those an internal cd might help. Weaver has a rough range of 300 so staying outside that range severly reduces burn output. I think its a problem with their defences and not their offense since it can be played around.

Flame expulsion applies 1 single burning stack. Yes, the duration can be extended, but the tell is incredibly obvious.Weaver has nothing like a range of 300. Most weapon skills have a range of 130. Primordial stance has a radius of 180. Pyro Vortexes have a radius of 90...

I do agree about some random burning decrease if you add the burning to burst skills. But do we really want condi bursts back?Also some barrier and/or projectile denial could be reduced. A solution would be not to force ele into focus anymore. :angry:But
only
if all the other good builds get nerfs too. Otherwise it would be extremely unreasonable.

God no, i want more proctile denials, i want something that would reflect mauls, pets, shiro ports and thieves in general

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@Khalisto.5780 said:

@Shao.7236 said:The best I can think of is giving water sword 2 the same treatment Mesmer sword 2 got.

That skill was actually a problem before and seeing the similarities here with Weaver, they could do the same to lightly tone down the uptime on evade without hurting much else.

So really speeding it up.

Lots of people suggested a shorter evade uptime and same CD, so you could still use the water field but needed to actually time the evades. They decided to increase the CD of a weapon skill 2 to 18 seconds...

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Too much access to barrier. Too much untellable burning with sunspot and flame expulsion. Giving those an internal cd might help. Weaver has a rough range of 300 so staying outside that range severly reduces burn output. I think its a problem with their defences and not their offense since it can be played around.

Flame expulsion applies 1 single burning stack. Yes, the duration can be extended, but the tell is incredibly obvious.Weaver has nothing like a range of 300. Most weapon skills have a range of 130. Primordial stance has a radius of 180. Pyro Vortexes have a radius of 90...

I do agree about some random burning decrease if you add the burning to burst skills. But do we really want condi bursts back?Also some barrier and/or projectile denial could be reduced. A solution would be not to force ele into focus anymore. :angry:But
only
if all the other good builds get nerfs too. Otherwise it would be extremely unreasonable.

God no, i want more proctile denials, i want something that would reflect mauls, pets, shiro ports and thieves in general

But, good sir!

pEoPlE cOuLd JuSt StOp AttAcKiNg AgAiNsT sUcH aN iNsTaNt CaSt!!!111

So easy to counter!

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@Grimjack.8130 Unless most Weavers I have faced didn't play Smoothering Aura's I don't think they need to touch it with the condition output all around in the game.

Barrier is however very prominent and does tank a lot of damage for how accessible it is back to back in between mistakes that would normally punish, waiting is not always an option either.

Does it honestly need 2 charges to begin with? Cuz in my personal experience, it's possible to out damage the skill but at very high damage investment which is fair, given we also have the passive that can kick in in most situations.

If charges are part of what makes the specialization what it is then sure, 50% barrier deduction would probably be the best action to take so that most punishes can actually matter when they happen..

Maybe the problem is also just in Lesser happening too often in fights at 70 seconds as a passive alone, give 90 seconds instead to start with, in between that maybe if not with that icd increase, the lesser should be lesser at it therefor be the one to have 50% barrier reduction first before the actual Stone Resonance takes a hit.

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@Shao.7236 said:@Grimjack.8130 Unless most Weavers I have faced didn't play Smoothering Aura's I don't think they need to touch it with the condition output all around in the game.

Barrier is however very prominent and does tank a lot of damage for how accessible it is back to back in between mistakes that would normally punish, waiting is not always an option either.

Does it honestly need 2 charges to begin with? Cuz in my personal experience, it's possible to out damage the skill but at very high damage investment which is fair, given we also have the passive that can kick in in most situations.

If charges are part of what makes the specialization what it is then sure, 50% barrier deduction would probably be the best action to take so that most punishes can actually matter when they happen..

Maybe the problem is also just in Lesser happening too often in fights at 70 seconds as a passive alone, give 90 seconds instead to start with, in between that maybe if not with that icd increase, the lesser should be lesser at it therefor be the one to have 50% barrier reduction first before the actual Stone Resonance takes a hit.

Without Smothering Auras, fire Weavers have extremely poor cleanses. They should be no issue at all with just a little counterplay, the low damage of the other traits is not worth it. I would be very surprised if fire Weaver worked without that trait in higher levels.

I would prefer the reduction of Lesser Stone Resonance. More active play, and a CD of 50 seconds should be long enough for such a barrier skill. If needed, reduce some more of the dodge spam or the dual skills. I would prefer the dodges, because tghat is just lazy playing. Weaving in as many dual skills as possible should be somehow rewarding, dodge spam should not.

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I left this game completly some months ago, but I still come from time to time to forums and follow latest 'brilliant' ANet balance updates. Now Im truly amazed that after all those nerfs weaver received, obsidian flesh, sword condis, ToF, everything, still theres someone thats gonna complain how OP this spec is.

Most of us already know it for quite awhile that theres no point of return for gw2 pvp scene, not only because company doesnt know what therye doing, but also because community is...well, you see what it is. OP this, OP that, im not willing to learn how this spec works and how to counter it, instead im gonna cry until they nerf it to the ground.

Well, what can I say lads. If we came to a point where ppl cry about fireweaver once again, I feel bad for players that still think about gw2 as a competetive game, even in 1%, instead of a place where you can just troll around and kill time (like playing solitaire). Stay strong and keep believing

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