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Tune down superspeed durations or potency


Riba.3271

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@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Jski.6180 said:It needs to stop coving over movement speed effects. The endless means of immunity to cripal and chill is not good for the game.

It doesn't cover over them. The superspeed buff itself boosts mobility to the in-combat movespeed cap by brute force due to how much it provides.We don't actually see the effects a true 100% bonus would have because OOC is capped at what swiftness offers and the in-combat movespeed maximum is just a lower number threshold.The in combat movement speed cap is the same as the out of combat movement speed cap - both is 400 units per second.

Regarding the covering of movement impairing effects:

Superspeed grants +100% movement speed, which results in that a chilled target with superspeed moves as fast as a non chilled target with swiftness:100% - 66% + 100% = 133% movement speedSuperspeed has the effect of a not strip-able swiftness to a chilled target, which is absurd.

Speed rune does only result in:100% - 66% + 66% = 100% movement speedSpeed rune does also cover chill, but does not additionally put a swiftness-like effect on top that can not be stripped.

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@ArchonWing.9480 said:DPS ele is not weak because people aren't staying in AOEs. If that were true, than DPS guard would not be the rage now (sword of justice suffers from similar problems). And necros? There's plenty of boon strip around to counter stability. If you really want to balance. superspeed, you would just make it a boon that can be stripped.

DPS ele is not preferred in organized groups, because it does not provide any group utility and has poor self sustain, thus it needs to be babied, and instead people would rather baby a more potent rev, power guard, power engi, or necro. Certainly, the damage nerfs should be reevaluated in spots as well.

staff eles don't need to be babied. they got their damage nerfed and other classes can output similar damage with some actual team support, thats all. oh and yes, superspeed kind of does nerf ele cuz they rely solely on long cd aoes, namely meteor shower. other classes have way shorter cds so they can recoup their losses somewhat.

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@ArchonWing.9480 said:DPS ele is not weak because people aren't staying in AOEs. If that were true, than DPS guard would not be the rage now (sword of justice suffers from similar problems). And necros? There's plenty of boon strip around to counter stability. If you really want to balance. superspeed, you would just make it a boon that can be stripped.

DPS ele is not preferred in organized groups, because it does not provide any group utility and has poor self sustain, thus it needs to be babied, and instead people would rather baby a more potent rev, power guard, power engi, or necro. Certainly, the damage nerfs should be reevaluated in spots as well.

DPS guard is indeed all the rage because sword of justice does massive damage within 1 second and punishes healers with low reaction time, while Lava fonts and whatever need 6 seconds (with correct fire traits) to reach maximum potency. The CC, misplay and stunbreak duration are all super short compared to ele fields.

The 2 builds are completely different. For example DPS revenants were overpowered until the heal mantra and mace/shield meta came and provided aegis to block some of the revenants burst. Now guardians have pulsing stuff (aegis only blocks 1 instance of sword of justice) with similar burst as revenants.

It is not that DPS guardians are amazing, it is just that other ranged builds feel bad. DPS guardian is just people making best of terrible state within the game. You could just run more scourges and get similar numbers with corrupts, support and CC on top.

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Ele dps is week because of super speed AND resistances just another hard counter to soft cc.

Anet needs to cap super speed at 3 sec. It would not stop near endless super speed but at least it would require skill to chain it right and realty super speed should be a short burst of speed not a stander boon for combat.

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I don't have any strong feelings about this, but I do have to say as a Necro, it is a colossal pain fighting anything without terrain to abuse when they have even one source of Super Speed.I'm not going to turn this in to a "waah, my main class is weak" type of discussion, but I do have to say that over time it has become a whole lot harder to survive in small scale or 1v1/X as a Necro. Soft CC used to be something Necro had a lot of to keep people away from it and cover for it's lack of scaling defenses, but with things like Super Speed and Sigil of Cleansing (and cleanses in general) becoming so prevalent, moderate-high access to Chill, Cripple and Fear has become a nearly irrelevant option.

I think if Super Speed were to be changed it should just become something that is strictly a personal buff with only a few exceptions. Scrapper should have like, Speed of Synergy and that's all. Tempest could also keep "Eye of the Storm!" but maybe at a reduced duration. Say, 3 seconds instead. Otherwise, nothing else should be granting group Super Speed so if they want to have it, they'll need to slot it for themselves.

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@Threather.9354 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:DPS ele is not weak because people aren't staying in AOEs. If that were true, than DPS guard would not be the rage now (sword of justice suffers from similar problems). And necros? There's plenty of boon strip around to counter stability. If you really want to balance. superspeed, you would just make it a boon that can be stripped.

DPS ele is not preferred in organized groups, because it does not provide any group utility and has poor self sustain, thus it needs to be babied, and instead people would rather baby a more potent rev, power guard, power engi, or necro. Certainly, the damage nerfs should be reevaluated in spots as well.

DPS guard is indeed all the rage because sword of justice does massive damage within 1 second and punishes healers with low reaction time, while Lava fonts and whatever need 6 seconds (with correct fire traits) to reach maximum potency. The CC, misplay and stunbreak duration are all super short compared to ele fields.

No, one tick of SoJ isn't really that damaging. It comes more from the synergy between Symbolic Avenger and staff 2/3 which for some unknown reason does a ton of damage. You don't need a full channel of meteor storm or lava font either. I can hurt people even with a few hits. Regardless of your dps build, range isn't useful anyways as most bombs happen within 900 range (the same as necro stuff, for a reason!)

The thing is that DPS guard can bring its own stab, group stunbreak, and condi clear. It can also easily keep up unscathed contender thanks to itself and firebrand support.

Other builds like DPS engi brings its own condi clear as shredder gyro clears lots of condis in a field and the ever needed stealth/superspeed, and dps rev brings lots of stability and even damage reduction.

Even if DPS ele matches or exceeds their damage, they bring little else to the table. Their own stab is lacking and survivability cannot be enhanced except by taking selfish utilities.

Btw, you aren't wrong that other damage classes being in a bad shape is also why dps guardian rose. But that's more about the massive damage nerf patch, nerfing all damage regardless of context for classes.

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@"Threather.9354" said:Yep, the speed is just too much. Same applies to speed runes.

If everyone is a sonic, no1 will spend a full second on a field, sometimes they will even walk through it without taking any damage. Why do you guys think staff ele is deemed useless by strong groups (btw, not your group if you disagree)? Because it relies on fields.

Staff ele useless deemed by "strong groups"

You mean groups still living in 2017 who have never played staff weaver a day in their life or think that marauder is "just as good" as full zerk with eagle rune.

Source: myself/my inflated ego

Tune down superspeed?Tune down stealth, cc and condi too while you're at it, why nerf superspeed first?

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Useless is not the correct term anyways. More like "offmeta" meaning it doesn't fit into preferred comps by guilds that run a bit smaller and have limited space.

There can be things that are objectively strong such as immob druid (which if you believed OP, doesn't work), but it's not considered a standard thing however it can still see play in groups with some more slots. Immob is the obvious counter to superspeed and also a reason why Tempest is preferred.

And I have been certainly immob-locked and hit by 7k meteors with 2700 armor once in a while so "useless" is probably not true. Yes, everything is useless if everyone plays perfectly, but that's the point here-- not everyone plays perfectly and sometimes people get caught. Even me! xD

The game's balance is pve trash, but it does have a little more variety than many give it credit for.

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@solemn.9608 said:

@"Threather.9354" said:Yep, the speed is just too much. Same applies to speed runes.

If everyone is a sonic, no1 will spend a full second on a field, sometimes they will even walk through it without taking any damage. Why do you guys think staff ele is deemed useless by strong groups (btw, not your group if you disagree)? Because it relies on fields.

Staff ele useless deemed by "strong groups"

You mean groups still living in 2017 who have never played staff weaver a day in their life or think that marauder is "just as good" as full zerk with eagle rune.

Source: myself/my inflated ego

Tune down superspeed?Tune down stealth, cc and condi too while you're at it, why nerf superspeed first?

Yea tuning down durations of stealth, CC, stability, conditions and condition cleanse fields but not condition damage itself, is also great direction to take. Nobody likes the stealth bombs and perma stab from 1 firebrands. This is why I suggested nerf of concentration stat, but they could do same to expertise.

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@Threather.9354 said:

@Threather.9354 said:Yep, the speed is just too much. Same applies to speed runes.

If everyone is a sonic, no1 will spend a full second on a field, sometimes they will even walk through it without taking any damage. Why do you guys think staff ele is deemed useless by strong groups (btw, not your group if you disagree)? Because it relies on fields.

Staff ele useless deemed by "strong groups"

You mean groups still living in 2017 who have never played staff weaver a day in their life or think that marauder is "just as good" as full zerk with eagle rune.

Source: myself/my inflated ego

Tune down superspeed?Tune down stealth, cc and condi too while you're at it, why nerf superspeed first?

Yea tuning down durations of stealth, CC, stability, conditions and condition cleanse fields but not condition damage itself, is also great direction to take. Nobody likes the stealth bombs and perma stab from 1 firebrands. This is why I suggested nerf of concentration stat, but they could do same to expertise.

I just say cap boon max duration as well as super speed make concentration for boon effectiveness not duration.

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