Suggestion: WvW-only legendary equipment

[Gotejjeken.1267]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:This thread exemplifies why WvW is fading out, mass resistance to change.

We have 'there is really no stat difference, just run Exotics'--if that is the case, then why use PvE gear in WvW at all? If WvW is about skill, then no one should be resisting having a single set of earnable armor that's only usable in the mode.

Cause thats how wvw was implemented. Pve as far as gear is concerned. Devs said so themselves.

Then we get the defense of 'you can already get WvW legendary armor!' when that doesn't help matter in the least, as legendary armor is quite expensive, especially for accomplishing the same purpose having permanent stat-selectable armor would.

Its expensive? Don't make it. You need it? Dedicate yourself to it. Free stuff make any mode die faster.

Also when we're saying that there is no difference between Exotic and Ascended, apparently we've all forgotten about the infusions that reduce guard damage making fights around anything far more in favor of those who have them, as NPC guards are literally on every structure and camp in WvW.

Everyone can get infusions. Laurels are obtainable at the same pace for every player, and the cost in wvw badges is minimal. Unless we talk about... Free stuff. Again.

But, I don't know why I'm surprised at any of this when if you go into WvW any given night you'll see new players referred to as 'bags', so it's clear the veterans don't want anything shaking their world up or they'll threaten to leave the mode. And yes, I've been around WvW long enough to remember orbs.

Ah, yes. Veterans. How many veterans still play? Most who remain look for fights by bandwagoning every 2 months, while many guilds have disbanded. "veterans". If by shaking up you mean -again- free stuff, then no. It us up to you to convince anet and your fellow wvw players as to WHY a change to the whole system will be beneficial, besides selfish reasons.One more thing: toxic elitists are a thing, but so are toxic casuals. And the latter are way more vocal.

You...need reading comprehension.

Ex:

Also when we're saying that there is no difference between Exotic and Ascended, apparently we've all forgotten about the infusions that reduce guard damage making fights around anything far more in favor of those who have them, as NPC guards are literally on every structure and camp in WvW.

Everyone can get infusions. Laurels are obtainable at the same pace for every player, and the cost in wvw badges is minimal. Unless we talk about... Free stuff. Again.

Where do you even get 'free stuff' from this? The point ascended provides clear benefits over exotic, no matter how you get the infusions.

Unless you consider playing the game 'free stuff', in which everything is literally 'free stuff' and that's just asinine.

So yeah, resistance to change is what kills the mode; you are proving it in this very topic.

Resistance to having free legendary is what kills the mode. Riiiiight. I want stuff without having to work for them too, bud. too bad it wont happen.The benefit is small. Ascended trinkets are much more abundant and easy to get than exotic ones. As for the armors, nope, the difference is marginal.Dont fight people near guards in wvw, unless your build works better around multiple targets. That infusion advantage wont save you from their immob, blind, CC. Unless that, too, is a reading comprehension matter.You can ask for free leggy stuff in wvw by putting it under the "resistance to change" all you want. I want raid reward track, getting LI and raid armors from wvw. If you disagree, you are resistant to change, and you kill the mode. GIMME.

No really, the rage is becoming kind of comical.

First, who mentioned anything about reward track? The OP clearly states: "To eliminate the raw stat difference I would suggest WvW-only equipment with legendary stats, earned through WvW currency and only usable in WvW", nothing about a reward track.

But, following your path, do you consider the Warclaw you get through the track 'free'? So literally one of the biggest impacts of the mode (because GL getting around without a Warclaw) is, shocker, 'free'. Why are you not raging that you should need 100g and10k skirmish tickets to get one?

Continuing down the path, the gift of battle is now also 'free', and is something that is required in legendary armor. You used to have to work WAY harder to get even a single one--were you protesting that change too?

Some of the things you mention are way way way up at the top of the complaint list as is, so I fail to see how you are making an argument using those examples. Yes, the Warclaw has a huge impact on the mode, and quite a few seasoned WvW players dislike it.

The Gift of Battle change is mostly PvE player related. Not a single WvW player ever has had an issue acquiring one. Most WvW players keep around 10 - 20 in their bank at all times.

The difference IS marginal from exotic to ascended on the most difficult gear pieces to get: armor. Ascended trinkets are far easier to come by than exotic, even if using only WvW reward track means to acquire the resources. Ascended weapons are likely the most difficult/expensive "should get" slot. Armor is by far the most expensive while least useful upgrade slot on top of which each WvW player gets 1 exotic stat select-able piece per week. The stat difference on armor is around 2.5% and absolutely negligible.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Finally, if the difference is marginal, and ascended is so easy to get in the first place--why are you resisting so hard to an earnable set that would by your logic, not really do anything to the mode anyway?

Why resist a change? If it's not broken, don't fix it. The last thing we need now is even more messing with the game mode until the developers have shown they actually understand WvW. The recent changes to long-term prestige rewards in WvW have not inspired confidence that the developers even understand their current gearing progression in place.

Also something being marginal does not mean it has no effect on a mode outside of character power. Even marginal increases which have no huge impact can feel rewarding. Best example is in fact ascended armor in either PvE or WvW. I still recall my very first set and how I acquired it and how long it took me, fully well knowing the minimal impact it actually had on my characters performance (and the hundreds of exotic sets which I still used after on all other characters). Depriving the game of mid- to long-term goals only to please players with attention spans of a Mayfly is not in the interest of this modes long-term survival.

Firstly, the reason you have 10-20 gifts of battle is because over the past 8 years they've made them go from very difficult to get to very easy. You used to have to get them through killing players only, now they drop from everything.

Thus making it a lot easier to get the current WvW legendary set of armor in the first place--all you have to do is farm pips for tickets and convert some gems to gold, there is no real WvW specific reward to any of it, as rank means nothing.

Anyway, the mode is broken though, you said it yourself--you don't want anymore changes because the current state of the mode is bad.

Basically, all I take from this topic is taking the gems to gold or farming gold out of it; you'd still have to earn the WvW legendary set through playing. Make it rank dependent like Mistforged Hero's Armor used to be (and still sorta is), that way you have to essentially stick with the mode longterm to get it, as even if you zerg to get your ranks you'd get bored before you get the set if you don't like WvW in the first place.

It's just silly how hard it is to change your build in the first place. You have to buy a bunch of exotic sets and switch to them--when GW has never been about that. Going back to even GW1 it was all about cosmetics. Gating stats was never the original intention; and with them making WvW 10x easier over the past 8 years and WvW still dying, it clearly doesn't work.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

@Voltekka.2375 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:This thread exemplifies why WvW is fading out, mass resistance to change.

We have 'there is really no stat difference, just run Exotics'--if that is the case, then why use PvE gear in WvW at all? If WvW is about skill, then no one should be resisting having a single set of earnable armor that's only usable in the mode.

Cause thats how wvw was implemented. Pve as far as gear is concerned. Devs said so themselves.

Then we get the defense of 'you can already get WvW legendary armor!' when that doesn't help matter in the least, as legendary armor is quite expensive, especially for accomplishing the same purpose having permanent stat-selectable armor would.

Its expensive? Don't make it. You need it? Dedicate yourself to it. Free stuff make any mode die faster.

Also when we're saying that there is no difference between Exotic and Ascended, apparently we've all forgotten about the infusions that reduce guard damage making fights around anything far more in favor of those who have them, as NPC guards are literally on every structure and camp in WvW.

Everyone can get infusions. Laurels are obtainable at the same pace for every player, and the cost in wvw badges is minimal. Unless we talk about... Free stuff. Again.

But, I don't know why I'm surprised at any of this when if you go into WvW any given night you'll see new players referred to as 'bags', so it's clear the veterans don't want anything shaking their world up or they'll threaten to leave the mode. And yes, I've been around WvW long enough to remember orbs.

Ah, yes. Veterans. How many veterans still play? Most who remain look for fights by bandwagoning every 2 months, while many guilds have disbanded. "veterans". If by shaking up you mean -again- free stuff, then no. It us up to you to convince anet and your fellow wvw players as to WHY a change to the whole system will be beneficial, besides selfish reasons.One more thing: toxic elitists are a thing, but so are toxic casuals. And the latter are way more vocal.

You...need reading comprehension.

Ex:

Also when we're saying that there is no difference between Exotic and Ascended, apparently we've all forgotten about the infusions that reduce guard damage making fights around anything far more in favor of those who have them, as NPC guards are literally on every structure and camp in WvW.

Everyone can get infusions. Laurels are obtainable at the same pace for every player, and the cost in wvw badges is minimal. Unless we talk about... Free stuff. Again.

Where do you even get 'free stuff' from this? The point ascended provides clear benefits over exotic, no matter how you get the infusions.

Unless you consider playing the game 'free stuff', in which everything is literally 'free stuff' and that's just asinine.

So yeah, resistance to change is what kills the mode; you are proving it in this very topic.

Resistance to having free legendary is what kills the mode. Riiiiight. I want stuff without having to work for them too, bud. too bad it wont happen.The benefit is small. Ascended trinkets are much more abundant and easy to get than exotic ones. As for the armors, nope, the difference is marginal.Dont fight people near guards in wvw, unless your build works better around multiple targets. That infusion advantage wont save you from their immob, blind, CC. Unless that, too, is a reading comprehension matter.You can ask for free leggy stuff in wvw by putting it under the "resistance to change" all you want. I want raid reward track, getting LI and raid armors from wvw. If you disagree, you are resistant to change, and you kill the mode. GIMME.

No really, the rage is becoming kind of comical.

First, who mentioned anything about reward track? The OP clearly states: "To eliminate the raw stat difference I would suggest WvW-only equipment with legendary stats, earned through WvW currency and only usable in WvW", nothing about a reward track.

But, following your path, do you consider the Warclaw you get through the track 'free'? So literally one of the biggest impacts of the mode (because GL getting around without a Warclaw) is, shocker, 'free'. Why are you not raging that you should need 100g and10k skirmish tickets to get one?

Continuing down the path, the gift of battle is now also 'free', and is something that is required in legendary armor. You used to have to work WAY harder to get even a single one--were you protesting that change too?

Some of the things you mention are way way way up at the top of the complaint list as is, so I fail to see how you are making an argument using those examples. Yes, the Warclaw has a huge impact on the mode, and quite a few seasoned WvW players dislike it.

The Gift of Battle change is mostly PvE player related. Not a single WvW player ever has had an issue acquiring one. Most WvW players keep around 10 - 20 in their bank at all times.

The difference IS marginal from exotic to ascended on the most difficult gear pieces to get: armor. Ascended trinkets are far easier to come by than exotic, even if using only WvW reward track means to acquire the resources. Ascended weapons are likely the most difficult/expensive "should get" slot. Armor is by far the most expensive while least useful upgrade slot on top of which each WvW player gets 1 exotic stat select-able piece per week. The stat difference on armor is around 2.5% and absolutely negligible.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Finally, if the difference is marginal, and ascended is so easy to get in the first place--why are you resisting so hard to an earnable set that would by your logic, not really do anything to the mode anyway?

Why resist a change? If it's not broken, don't fix it. The last thing we need now is even more messing with the game mode until the developers have shown they actually understand WvW. The recent changes to long-term prestige rewards in WvW have not inspired confidence that the developers even understand their current gearing progression in place.

Also something being marginal does not mean it has no effect on a mode outside of character power. Even marginal increases which have no huge impact can feel rewarding. Best example is in fact ascended armor in either PvE or WvW. I still recall my very first set and how I acquired it and how long it took me, fully well knowing the minimal impact it actually had on my characters performance (and the hundreds of exotic sets which I still used after on all other characters). Depriving the game of mid- to long-term goals only to please players with attention spans of a Mayfly is not in the interest of this modes long-term survival.

Firstly, the reason you have 10-20 gifts of battle is because over the past 8 years they've made them go from very difficult to get to very easy. You used to have to get them through killing players only, now they drop from everything.

No, you used to BUY them with Badges of Honor, of which players always had tons (changed in Spring 2016). Even when I was NOT actively playing WvW I had enough BoH to buy multiple GoB and even regretted not buying more back then. This was even easier when AP where added and the subsequent BoH rewards there too, effectively removing the necessity to WvW at all for GoB.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Thus making it a lot easier to get the current WvW legendary set of armor in the first place--all you have to do is farm pips for tickets and convert some gems to gold, there is no real WvW specific reward to any of it, as rank means nothing.

The WvW legi armor was added far later than the GoB change (WvW legi armor was added in May 2017).

Please do some basic wiki searches if you are unclear on the acutal changes made to this mode.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Anyway, the mode is broken though, you said it yourself--you don't want anymore changes because the current state of the mode is bad.

I said I don't want changes UNTIL the developers have shown that they understand the mode. That is not the same as not wanting change.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Basically, all I take from this topic is taking the gems to gold or farming gold out of it; you'd still have to earn the WvW legendary set through playing. Make it rank dependent like Mistforged Hero's Armor used to be (and still sorta is), that way you have to essentially stick with the mode longterm to get it, as even if you zerg to get your ranks you'd get bored before you get the set if you don't like WvW in the first place.

It's just silly how hard it is to change your build in the first place. You have to buy a bunch of exotic sets and switch to them--when GW has never been about that. Going back to even GW1 it was all about cosmetics. Gating stats was never the original intention; and with them making WvW 10x easier over the past 8 years and WvW still dying, it clearly doesn't work.

Yes, and the changes to having all stats select-able recently has made exotic gear and gearing even easier. If you want no gear, or nearly no gear dependence in WvW, make a strong argument for that instead of back dooring. I doubt you will find a great amount of acceptance in the current player base though, given the current players are attracted to the mode as is.

As far as gating stats: WvW has had PvE stats from day one. I would love to have you explain how this was not intended. I don't care about your GW1 analogies. There was no WvW in GW1, and the Spvp mode here does not have gear, so for all intents and purposes, that's the mode you can play if you want a GW1 similar pvp experience.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Firstly, the reason you have 10-20 gifts of battle is because over the past 8 years they've made them go from very difficult to get to very easy. You used to have to get them through killing players only, now they drop from everything.

No, you used to BUY them with Badges of Honor, of which players always had tons (changed in Spring 2016). Even when I was NOT actively playing WvW I had enough BoH to buy multiple GoB and even regretted not buying more back then. This was even easier when AP where added and the subsequent BoH rewards there too, effectively removing the necessity to WvW at all for GoB.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Thus making it a lot easier to get the current WvW legendary set of armor in the first place--all you have to do is farm pips for tickets and convert some gems to gold, there is no real WvW specific reward to any of it, as rank means nothing.

The WvW legi armor was added far later than the GoB change (WvW legi armor was added in May 2017).

Please do some basic wiki searches if you are unclear on the acutal changes made to this mode.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Anyway, the mode is broken though, you said it yourself--you don't want anymore changes because the current state of the mode is bad.

I said I don't want changes UNTIL the developers have shown that they understand the mode. That is not the same as not wanting change.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Basically, all I take from this topic is taking the gems to gold or farming gold out of it; you'd still have to earn the WvW legendary set through playing. Make it rank dependent like Mistforged Hero's Armor used to be (and still sorta is), that way you have to essentially stick with the mode longterm to get it, as even if you zerg to get your ranks you'd get bored before you get the set if you don't like WvW in the first place.

It's just silly how hard it is to change your build in the first place. You have to buy a bunch of exotic sets and switch to them--when GW has never been about that. Going back to even GW1 it was all about cosmetics. Gating stats was never the original intention; and with them making WvW 10x easier over the past 8 years and WvW still dying, it clearly doesn't work.

Yes, and the changes to having all stats select-able recently has made exotic gear and gearing even easier. If you want no gear, or nearly no gear dependence in WvW, make a strong argument for that instead of back dooring. I doubt you will find a great amount of acceptance in the current player base though, given the current players are attracted to the mode as is.

As far as gating stats: WvW has had PvE stats from day one. I would love to have you explain how this was not intended. I don't care about your GW1 analogies. There was no WvW in GW1, and the Spvp mode here does not have gear, so for all intents and purposes, that's the mode you can play if you want a GW1 similar pvp experience.

For the first point I meant badges of honor used to only come from killing players ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Badge_of_Honor&oldid=327793 ), and yes you had to buy gift of battle with that. Now badges of honor drop from literally everything and you can get gifts of battle through a reward track, thus 'easy mode'. Not really concerned with how many badges you had or how you got them, for all I know you zerged around in EB and were flooded with them with little effort.

Second point, don't care when legendary armor was added--it isn't relevant to what I wrote. My point is legendary armor has no specific WvW attachment to it other than either buying gems => gold if you have money, or farming PvE until you get the gold and then running around with zergs and afk'ing for pips to get skirmish tickets.

Third point, you're going to be waiting a long time as the mode has gotten worse every passing year since 2012; not sure if you were around back then, but if you weren't might want to wiki it =).

Fourth point, players are attached to the mode now through Stockholm Syndrome, so not really concerned with how the overall community feels. Most of you weren't around to play GW1 which is why your last statement stands out. Guild Wars was always the 'anti-Wow', gear creep was never a thing, and still isn't.

They put PvE gear into WvW to make it a more casual experience (which is why someone can gank people 3 on 1 with a stupid stat set and still feel like they're good), not because gear was intended to make or break the mode. People still hold on to the PvE gear in the mode because they want to feel like PvE is somehow hard and their gear matters, and also want to get kills without being good at the game or their profession.

It's fine though, all you get get here on the forums is the usual hostility from 'WvW veterans' who probably weren't even around pre-HoT wanting to hold on to current systems that are very bad at bringing new people into the mode.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Firstly, the reason you have 10-20 gifts of battle is because over the past 8 years they've made them go from very difficult to get to very easy. You used to have to get them through killing players only, now they drop from everything.

No, you used to BUY them with Badges of Honor, of which players always had tons (changed in Spring 2016). Even when I was NOT actively playing WvW I had enough BoH to buy multiple GoB and even regretted not buying more back then. This was even easier when AP where added and the subsequent BoH rewards there too, effectively removing the necessity to WvW at all for GoB.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Thus making it a lot easier to get the current WvW legendary set of armor in the first place--all you have to do is farm pips for tickets and convert some gems to gold, there is no real WvW specific reward to any of it, as rank means nothing.

The WvW legi armor was added far later than the GoB change (WvW legi armor was added in May 2017).

Please do some basic wiki searches if you are unclear on the acutal changes made to this mode.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Anyway, the mode is broken though, you said it yourself--you don't want anymore changes because the current state of the mode is bad.

I said I don't want changes UNTIL the developers have shown that they understand the mode. That is not the same as not wanting change.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Basically, all I take from this topic is taking the gems to gold or farming gold out of it; you'd still have to earn the WvW legendary set through playing. Make it rank dependent like Mistforged Hero's Armor used to be (and still sorta is), that way you have to essentially stick with the mode longterm to get it, as even if you zerg to get your ranks you'd get bored before you get the set if you don't like WvW in the first place.

It's just silly how hard it is to change your build in the first place. You have to buy a bunch of exotic sets and switch to them--when GW has never been about that. Going back to even GW1 it was all about cosmetics. Gating stats was never the original intention; and with them making WvW 10x easier over the past 8 years and WvW still dying, it clearly doesn't work.

Yes, and the changes to having all stats select-able recently has made exotic gear and gearing even easier. If you want no gear, or nearly no gear dependence in WvW, make a strong argument for that instead of back dooring. I doubt you will find a great amount of acceptance in the current player base though, given the current players are attracted to the mode as is.

As far as gating stats: WvW has had PvE stats from day one. I would love to have you explain how this was not intended. I don't care about your GW1 analogies. There was no WvW in GW1, and the Spvp mode here does not have gear, so for all intents and purposes, that's the mode you can play if you want a GW1 similar pvp experience.

For the first point I meant badges of honor used to only come from killing players (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Badge_of_Honor&oldid=327793

), and yes you had to buy gift of battle with that. Now badges of honor drop from literally everything and you can get gifts of battle through a reward track, thus 'easy mode'. Not really concerned with how many badges you had or how you got them, for all I know you zerged around in EB and were flooded with them with little effort.

Yes, and BoH were plenty. Again, I had no issue buying multiple gifts back then and I was not even active in WvW. Sub WvW rank 300 for the first 2 years of the game. The biggest loss was mostly due to no auto loot.

That is without even mentioning the achievement point reward implementation after the first 6 months, and with them thousands of BoH for every player.

I fail to see your point. Unless the point was to hand pick short moments in time of this game which had nearly no effect at all on the topic discussed. Legendary items were basically 1 in a million the first few months for players, and after that it was certainly not the BoH limiting access.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Second point, don't care when legendary armor was added--it isn't relevant to what I wrote. My point is legendary armor has no specific WvW attachment to it other than either buying gems => gold if you have money, or farming PvE until you get the gold and then running around with zergs and afk'ing for pips to get skirmish tickets.

My mistake. Your sentence structure made it seem as though you were continuing your point about badges of Honor. If 24 weeks of maximum skirmish tickets is not tying the armor to WvW, I don't know what is.

You not agreeing that players who are participating as part of the zerg are playing WvW is not my problem. This mode has many different play styles shoved together. Your preferred play style is not the only one that counts or matters.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Third point, you're going to be waiting a long time as the mode has gotten worse every passing year since 2012; not sure if you were around back then, but if you weren't might want to wiki it =).

Sure. Doesn't change the fact you were putting words in my mouth.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Fourth point, players are attached to the mode now through Stockholm Syndrome, so not really concerned with how the overall community feels. Most of you weren't around to play GW1 which is why your last statement stands out. Guild Wars was always the 'anti-Wow', gear creep was never a thing, and still isn't.

Subjective interpretation of someone who maybe should move on?

I wouldn't know. Again, in case you missed it: WvW has had PvE gear from day 1. GW1 had gearing just like GW2 in PvE and never gave out PvE gear for free. In fact getting multiple sets was likely more expensive there than it is to get exotic gear in GW2. Especially when going for meta upgrades for that gear (Superior Rune of Vigor was always expensive, as were desired Runes for specific builds easily rivaling today's Scholar Runes in GW2 and above). WvW has always had PvE elements by design.

PvP in GW1 had mostly no gearing. Similar to Spvp in GW2. That's the mode you need to look to if you want your GW1 non gearing experience.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:They put PvE gear into WvW to make it a more casual experience (which is why someone can gank people 3 on 1 with a stupid stat set and still feel like they're good), not because gear was intended to make or break the mode. People still hold on to the PvE gear in the mode because they want to feel like PvE is somehow hard and their gear matters, and also want to get kills without being good at the game or their profession.

It's fine though, all you get get here on the forums is the usual hostility from 'WvW veterans' who probably weren't even around pre-HoT wanting to hold on to current systems that are very bad at bringing new people into the mode.

You reap what you sow. You come telling everyone they are wrong at how they enjoy the game. Tell everyone here that the game mode should change after 8 years in a way YOU want it to change in some cases against the very initial conception and implementation. Then expect everyone to agree? That's not how opinions work.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Firstly, the reason you have 10-20 gifts of battle is because over the past 8 years they've made them go from very difficult to get to very easy. You used to have to get them through killing players only, now they drop from everything.

No, you used to BUY them with Badges of Honor, of which players always had tons (changed in Spring 2016). Even when I was NOT actively playing WvW I had enough BoH to buy multiple GoB and even regretted not buying more back then. This was even easier when AP where added and the subsequent BoH rewards there too, effectively removing the necessity to WvW at all for GoB.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Thus making it a lot easier to get the current WvW legendary set of armor in the first place--all you have to do is farm pips for tickets and convert some gems to gold, there is no real WvW specific reward to any of it, as rank means nothing.

The WvW legi armor was added far later than the GoB change (WvW legi armor was added in May 2017).

Please do some basic wiki searches if you are unclear on the acutal changes made to this mode.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Anyway, the mode is broken though, you said it yourself--you don't want anymore changes because the current state of the mode is bad.

I said I don't want changes UNTIL the developers have shown that they understand the mode. That is not the same as not wanting change.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Basically, all I take from this topic is taking the gems to gold or farming gold out of it; you'd still have to earn the WvW legendary set through playing. Make it rank dependent like Mistforged Hero's Armor used to be (and still sorta is), that way you have to essentially stick with the mode longterm to get it, as even if you zerg to get your ranks you'd get bored before you get the set if you don't like WvW in the first place.

It's just silly how hard it is to change your build in the first place. You have to buy a bunch of exotic sets and switch to them--when GW has never been about that. Going back to even GW1 it was all about cosmetics. Gating stats was never the original intention; and with them making WvW 10x easier over the past 8 years and WvW still dying, it clearly doesn't work.

Yes, and the changes to having all stats select-able recently has made exotic gear and gearing even easier. If you want no gear, or nearly no gear dependence in WvW, make a strong argument for that instead of back dooring. I doubt you will find a great amount of acceptance in the current player base though, given the current players are attracted to the mode as is.

As far as gating stats: WvW has had PvE stats from day one. I would love to have you explain how this was not intended. I don't care about your GW1 analogies. There was no WvW in GW1, and the Spvp mode here does not have gear, so for all intents and purposes, that's the mode you can play if you want a GW1 similar pvp experience.

For the first point I meant badges of honor used to only come from killing players (

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/index.php?title=Badge_of_Honor&oldid=327793

), and yes you had to buy gift of battle with that. Now badges of honor drop from literally everything and you can get gifts of battle through a reward track, thus 'easy mode'. Not really concerned with how many badges you had or how you got them, for all I know you zerged around in EB and were flooded with them with little effort.

Yes, and BoH were plenty. Again, I had no issue buying multiple gifts back then and I was not even active in WvW. Sub WvW rank 300 for the first 2 years of the game. The biggest loss was mostly due to no auto loot.

That is without even mentioning the achievement point reward implementation after the first 6 months, and with them thousands of BoH for every player.

I fail to see your point. Unless the point was to hand pick short moments in time of this game which had nearly no effect at all on the topic discussed. Legendary items were basically 1 in a million the first few months for players, and after that it was certainly not the BoH limiting access.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Second point, don't care when legendary armor was added--it isn't relevant to what I wrote. My point is legendary armor has no specific WvW attachment to it other than either buying gems => gold if you have money, or farming PvE until you get the gold and then running around with zergs and afk'ing for pips to get skirmish tickets.

My mistake. Your sentence structure made it seem as though you were continuing your point about badges of Honor. If 24 weeks of maximum skirmish tickets is not tying the armor to WvW, I don't know what is.

You not agreeing that players who are participating as part of the zerg are playing WvW is not my problem. This mode has many different play styles shoved together. Your preferred play style is not the only one that counts or matters.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Third point, you're going to be waiting a long time as the mode has gotten worse every passing year since 2012; not sure if you were around back then, but if you weren't might want to wiki it =).

Sure. Doesn't change the fact you were putting words in my mouth.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Fourth point, players are attached to the mode now through Stockholm Syndrome, so not really concerned with how the overall community feels. Most of you weren't around to play GW1 which is why your last statement stands out. Guild Wars was always the 'anti-Wow', gear creep was never a thing, and still isn't.

Subjective interpretation of someone who maybe should move on?

I wouldn't know. Again, in case you missed it: WvW has had PvE gear from day 1. GW1 had gearing just like GW2 in PvE and never gave out PvE gear for free. In fact getting multiple sets was likely more expensive there than it is to get exotic gear in GW2. Especially when going for meta upgrades for that gear (Superior Rune of Vigor was always expensive, as were desired Runes for specific builds easily rivaling today's Scholar Runes in GW2 and above). WvW has always had PvE elements by design.

PvP in GW1 had mostly no gearing. Similar to Spvp in GW2. That's the mode you need to look to if you want your GW1 non gearing experience.

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:They put PvE gear into WvW to make it a more casual experience (which is why someone can gank people 3 on 1 with a stupid stat set and still feel like they're good), not because gear was intended to make or break the mode. People still hold on to the PvE gear in the mode because they want to feel like PvE is somehow hard and their gear matters, and also want to get kills without being good at the game or their profession.

It's fine though, all you get get here on the forums is the usual hostility from 'WvW veterans' who probably weren't even around pre-HoT wanting to hold on to current systems that are very bad at bringing new people into the mode.

You reap what you sow. You come telling everyone they are wrong at how they enjoy the game. Tell everyone here that the game mode should change after 8 years in a way YOU want it to change in some cases against the very initial conception and implementation. Then expect everyone to agree? That's not how opinions work.

I personally don't care, I have been around long enough to know what WvW is and to get legendary armor. My point in this topic is for people like the TC that find it hard to get back into WvW (or get into it in the first place) because the systems have not been updated to welcome new / returning players.

I mean we're arguing in a topic about helping a mode that can't be helped really due to the way server transfers and bandwagoning work. Add in gear that you grind out in a different mode (i.e. PvE), ridiculous things you have to earn through mastery (warclaw, gliding), private tags, claim buff, and you've got just about the highest bar to entry to any mode in the game. That's great for longevity.

It's just silly not to add a set of specific WvW only stat-swappable (i.e. legendary) equipment to make builds easier to try out and use. That encourages new players, so we don't have to kill the same gold+ ranks over, and over again--as for the off chance someone new to the mode may read this, despite rank most high ranks are inversely proportional to skill level, esp. as you hit platinum, mithril, and esp. diamond.