Tankers in WvW: sadly they rule the game and sabotage my fun in WvW

[manu.7539]

I'm a nomal person and like many others I play a competitive game with the hope to win. There is no other sane way to play a game in team than doing your best. Sadly some players are ruining my team anytime we have a chance to reach T1 (and even T2 sometimes). We actually have a team that could win (we are actually in t1 since 2 weeks) but obviously some guilds and players are tanking. This is so frustrating for those doing their best to make a good use of that rare opportunity to win in T1. I feel like the tankers are stealing my money and hard work to reach and win T1. So yeah, guess I'm done trying to win after this week. Bored to waste tactics, time and money in an insane game ruled by losers :(

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

I just don’t even that much anymore because of this exact reason done by other servers.

[HazyDaisy.4107]

We're all having so much fun in T2 against the server that "lost" T1 last week.

Your server isn't tanking this week, you were given a win last week, enjoy your week!

[manu.7539]

@"HazyDaisy.4107" said:We're all having so much fun in T2 against the server that "lost" T1 last week.

Your server isn't tanking this week, you were given a win last week, enjoy your week!

Thx for the good laugh! Yeah I had an idea how fun it is in T2.. for BG :PAnd yes many guilds in my team are tanking , and they did last week also but they failed to get us down in t2, all they did was to make sure we didnt win. You know when a tag invite any pugs he see and then doesnt respond to home bl and better like to recap a paper tower in ebg instead.. or when he spend an hour around a paper tower a get nothing done.. they arent even shamed about it, they ask for it in team chat!

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

@manu.7539 said:

@"HazyDaisy.4107" said:We're all having so much fun in T2 against the server that "lost" T1 last week.

Your server isn't tanking this week, you were given a win last week, enjoy your week!

Thx for the good laugh! Yeah I had an idea how fun it is in T2.. for BG :PAnd yes many guilds in my team are tanking , and they did last week also but they failed to get us down in t2, all they did was to make sure we didnt win. You know when a tag invite any pugs he see and then doesnt respond to home bl and better like to recap a paper tower in ebg instead.. or when he spend an hour around a paper tower a get nothing done.. they arent even shamed about it, they ask for it in team chat!

To be fair alot of us who tag up just don't like Borderlands. Even Alpine has its issues, EBG is run because its endless combat not spending 15mins crossing a map only for one blob to roll over another in five seconds or less.

There's been requests many times for more numerous waypoints in the larger maps (without T3 Keeps), but.

While some guilds do intentionally tank, alot of its just people playing how they want, and when they want, I think.

[Henrik.7560]

it's just servers like BG and SOS who usually hold top 2 spots in NA, who are boring and unenjoyable to fight because they lack any real fight groups, and its mostly just PPTers or casual groups that will avoid hard fights unless they have a numbers advantage and can easily hold W key. Meanwhile most of the servers with more fight and gvg oriented groups will linger around t2/t3 so people want to be there for better content. Not much anet can really do about it except stop giving BG links which become full every single time :)

[manu.7539]

@Henrik.7560 said:it's just servers like BG and SOS who usually hold top 2 spots in NA, who are boring

Boring? We dont have the same feeling about it. Any other NA servers are as challenging as them and challenge isnt boring, its absolutely exciting for me! You want to get better, fight the best not the worst! You'll lose, and lose, and lose until u get mad and find some solutions.

Dont try to fool me kids, your pale excuses doesnt hide the thruth, you need to grow some balls and fight with honor! For Ascalon! :p

[manu.7539]

About the GvG, its called WvW, not GvG... Ask for GvG maps to ANET but dont ruin my game because ANET doesnt please you. That is just not fair for real WvW fans. You want to GvG get out of WvW then!

[lotus.5672]

@manu.7539 said:

@Henrik.7560 said:it's just servers like BG and SOS who usually hold top 2 spots in NA, who are boring

Boring? We dont have the same feeling about it. Any other NA servers are as challenging as them and challenge isnt boring, its absolutely exciting for me! You want to get better, fight the best not the worst! You'll lose, and lose, and lose until u get mad and find some solutions.

Dont try to fool me kids, your pale excuses doesnt hide the thruth, you need to grow some balls and fight with honor! For Ascalon! :p

If you actually want to get good you are playing the wrong gamemode

[manu.7539]

@lotus.5672 said:If you actually want to get good you are playing the wrong gamemode

I surely can get better and I do but I guess I'm already good! Anyway that wasnt the point at all, I was more talking about the team in general because it's what it should be, its not GvG or me vs X, its WvW and it must be played like a team under WvW rules.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@"manu.7539" and, tell me, what do u get for "winning" t1 ppt score? probably less than i get for 1800 kills, since kills fire into Wvw rank (asc box drop options, just lately got a zerker asc weaponbox on rank 2140~), bags (heavy loot bags have chances for ascended mats like deldrimor steel ingot even) and other rare random drops like BLchest keys or precursors.

these rules u claim to have make no sense at all. there is no honor in ppt, as there's no rewards. it's a nice thing to roleplay, maybe, i don't know.

guilds carry any bigger fight. without strong guilds, you couldn't defend anything ever. two 20 ppl guildgroups that work well together can push most 50 ppl blobs quite fine.

if u only had this ppt-lovers on any server, you'd be not going anywhere. you'd be ending up getting spawncamped, bc u cannot win a single fight.

like, for 1 undefended keep u need 2-3 people that know how to klick their buttons, that's all. lords are crazy weak.

another point... t1 #1 = staying t1 t1 #2 = staying t1, both get an alpine border at next matchup... so the rewards here are 1:1 the same. bit more pips maybe, but that just fills your monthly participation bar faster. which is either way maxed out after the weekened, if u play a bit and have gold rank or higher.

[Swamurabi.7890]

Wow, so much here to talk about.

@"manu.7539" said:I'm a nomal person and like many others I play a competitive game with the hope to win.WvW isn't, and hasn't been "competitive" in a long time, since before I quit the game actually.

There is no other sane way to play a game in team than doing your best.You have several choices. Join a guild. Don't join a guild. Roam, Havoc, Zerg, Scout. PPT, PPK. When you finally choose how you want to play you'll eventually find out that in WvW you are going to have some matchups where you JUST WON'T HAVE FUN.

Sadly some players are ruining my team anytime we have a chance to reach T1 (and even T2 sometimes). We actually have a team that could win (we are actually in t1 since 2 weeks) but obviously some guilds and players are tanking.The old "Everyone should play how I want to play" argument. You can't get 5 players in sPvP to play the same way but you expect everyone that plays WvW to have the same goals as yourself. Not gonna happen. Never will.

This is so frustrating for those doing their best to make a good use of that rare opportunity to win in T1.Stop worrying about what you can't control, it will do wonders for your mental stability.

I feel like the tankers are stealing my money and hard work to reach and win T1. So yeah, guess I'm done trying to win after this week. Bored to waste tactics, time and money in an insane game ruled by losers :(

There's no reason to spend money in WvW:WvW gets barely any support from Anet, and seems more like a side project than the "core part" of GW2 it was said to be.

[manu.7539]

I dont care about rewards I care to play with a team of players that give their best even of its sometimes not enough to win. I'm enjoy ppk and fights like few others but you cant expect to win without ppt.

Since only WvW kept me into this game, yes any gems and expansions I bought were for WvW.

About my mental stability, yes you are right, that drives me crazy to see peoples asking to not win and doing their best to lose while we have a chance to win. That's why I stopped playing WvW. The game I enjoyed the most is ruined by careless peoples so I'm done until something happen to fix that losers mentality.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@"manu.7539" said:The game I enjoyed the most is ruined by careless peoples so I'm done until something happen to fix that losers mentality.You're going to be waiting a long time then, because it only took the players a couple of months back in 2012 to figure out that the best way to "win" the ladder was to stack and play at 5am when everyone else is asleep. Then just guard your own objectives PPT-style when the other two servers play and let them fight each other for the scraps and waste their time chugging through the upgraded objectives you left them.

NA and EU dealt with this realization differently, with NA's natural night crews only being SEA groups somewhat limited in numbers. So NA actively recruited cross-region to gain more coverage stacks. In EU there was a more sizable early natural influx of Canadians and South Americans due to langage-denoted servers so few people in EU ever bothered recruiting NA groups. This is why NA cares more than EU but also why no one really cares. If you want competetive group play look into the GvG scenes. It may be unsupported by the developers but it is your best bet to feel like you are apart of something that lets you more directly measure up opponents and give you a sense of competition. It's the only places where enough people occassionally do care to give some sense of accomplishment. That is why people keep mentioning that word to you.

There's no point in harping on about competition where there are not 3+ sides looking to compete and when there are too many obstacles in the way hindering people from trying to compete the way you'd want them to. That has nothing to do with people's attitude and everything to do with ArenaNet's management. You could argue that the game was always meant to be casual but at the end of the day, the ladder is broken, it has been pointed out and given suggested solutions since 2012 and it has not yet been fixed. Casual or not, that is primarily why people do not care.

[manu.7539]

@subversiontwo.7501 said: That has nothing to do with people's attitude and everything to do with ArenaNet's management.

Peoples attitude has something to do with it but I agree that the dysfonctionnality of WvW is mostly caused by Anet lack of care about GvGers. Give'em their own things (maps rewards etc) so they leave WvWers do their own. What's the point to have full servers and huge WvW community if we dont cooperate for the same goals: win or do your best at least.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@manu.7539 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said: That has nothing to do with people's attitude and everything to do with ArenaNet's management.

Peoples attitude has something to do with it but I agree that the dysfonctionnality of WvW is mostly caused by Anet lack of care about GvGers. Give'em their own things (maps rewards etc) so they leave WvWers do their own. What's the point to have full servers and huge WvW community if we dont cooperate for the same goals: win or do your best at least.

Friend, I think you grossly missed my point:

• The scoring equation is broken (making stacking players in the wrong region at the wrong time and avoiding PPK the most effective)
• The server population caps are different for different servers (and can be manipulated by exploiting the system while that isn't policed)
• Even the map caps have a tremendous and volatile effect on players' ability to play (and can also be manipulated with little risk of repercussion)

Things like that makes people stop caring about the ladder.

Granted, they should definately give the GvGers a place to effectively GvG in. However, that has nothing to do with the ladder or the divide of PPK and PPT. In fact, I see it quite contrary to how I think you see it. I believe a place to GvG in would make guilds happy, resulting in more guilds being formed that also play on maps and share content by putting up public tags.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

The server population caps are different for different servers (and can be manipulated by exploiting the system while that isn't policed)

Not to be argumentative, but do you have a source for this?

I don’t disagree that the population levels are different in each server ( for many reasons)

But the actual caps? I’ve never heard that. People speculate, but never seen where the caps are different.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

The server population caps are different for different servers (and can be manipulated by exploiting the system while that isn't policed)

Not to be argumentative, but do you have a source for this?

I don’t disagree that the population

levels

are different in each server ( for many reasons)

But the actual

caps

? I’ve never heard that. People speculate, but never seen where the caps are different.

The primary source is Tyler Bearce's old Relinking announcement thread on the old forums. It states that

caps

are changed based on host-link combinations. Granted, things do no longer have to work like that. It is an old post and there are examples to the contrary. For example, the same post states that there are counter measures against servers trying to dump population by boycotting for a week or two, but recently we have seen servers do that just fine.

Ed. It should be underlined that the post was made during the Relink beta, so while it does say that those things are in that iteration/patch, it does state that they are looking at alternatives for alot of the information listed there.

The other issue is more of a rumour, but it is established well enough to be the greatest troll in the history of the WvW forums if it isn't true. That is that BB is kept manually open because it is the only server highlighted with that language definition. So, everyone in EU could transfer there. There may be a source, but I have admittedly just heard so many different players on different servers taking it for granted by now, so I have begun to do so myself. I shouldn't ofc.

[Strider Pj.2193]

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

The server population caps are different for different servers (and can be manipulated by exploiting the system while that isn't policed)

Not to be argumentative, but do you have a source for this?

I don’t disagree that the population

levels

are different in each server ( for many reasons)

But the actual

caps

? I’ve never heard that. People speculate, but never seen where the caps are different.

The primary source is Tyler Bearce's old Relinking announcement thread on the old forums. It states that

caps

are changed based on host-link combinations. Granted, things do no longer have to work like that. It is an old post and there are examples to the contrary. For example, the same post states that there are counter measures against servers trying to dump population by boycotting for a week or two, but recently we have seen servers do that just fine.

The other issue is more of a rumour, but it is established well enough to be the greatest troll in the history of the WvW forums if it isn't true. That is that BB is kept manually open because it is the only server highlighted with that language definition. So, everyone in EU could transfer there. There may be a source, but I have admittedly just heard so many different players on different servers taking it for granted by now, so I have begun to do so myself. I shouldn't ofc.

Got it.

You are likely correct, and we both know that Anet won’t publish actual pop data. I wish they WOULD publish a population hours chart again like the infamous one from a couple years ago. Just with server names, but no actual ‘numbers’.

[subversiontwo.7501]

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

@Strider Pj.2193 said:

@subversiontwo.7501 said:

The server population caps are different for different servers (and can be manipulated by exploiting the system while that isn't policed)

Not to be argumentative, but do you have a source for this?

I don’t disagree that the population

levels

are different in each server ( for many reasons)

But the actual

caps

? I’ve never heard that. People speculate, but never seen where the caps are different.

The primary source is Tyler Bearce's old Relinking announcement thread on the old forums. It states that

caps

are changed based on host-link combinations. Granted, things do no longer have to work like that. It is an old post and there are examples to the contrary. For example, the same post states that there are counter measures against servers trying to dump population by boycotting for a week or two, but recently we have seen servers do that just fine.

The other issue is more of a rumour, but it is established well enough to be the greatest troll in the history of the WvW forums if it isn't true. That is that BB is kept manually open because it is the only server highlighted with that language definition. So, everyone in EU could transfer there. There may be a source, but I have admittedly just heard so many different players on different servers taking it for granted by now, so I have begun to do so myself. I shouldn't ofc.

Got it.

You are likely correct, and we both know that Anet won’t publish actual pop data. I wish they WOULD publish a population hours chart again like the infamous one from a couple years ago. Just with server names, but no actual ‘numbers’.I would like to see that too, I enjoyed that slope and it put things into perspective for alot of people. It really showed how big the differences were.

At the same time, I don't know which region you play in, but I am almost exclusively on EU and here there are so many nomadic communities now that they are becomming norm and the server populations changes quite drastically every relink. The few remaining popular commanders and guilds have so much attraction that they will completely empty out or fill up a server over a single weekly update. Other servers are almost entirely carried by single guilds by now, so that guild can make the server implode as a server. Those are some of the realities the "server identity" people here on the forums do not see.

[Valelutra.9128]

@manu.7539 said:

@Henrik.7560 said:it's just servers like BG and SOS who usually hold top 2 spots in NA, who are boring

Boring? We dont have the same feeling about it. Any other NA servers are as challenging as them and challenge isnt boring, its absolutely exciting for me! You want to get better, fight the best not the worst! You'll lose, and lose, and lose until u get mad and find some solutions.

Dont try to fool me kids, your pale excuses doesnt hide the thruth, you need to grow some balls and fight with honor! For Ascalon! :p

TBH, I've fought with both servers and recently been linked to one of them, and they are boring to fight. It's not about skill for either server, it's about numbers. Both servers have plenty of off hour support which inflates their points when few people play, and I don't feel like getting up at all hours of the night/early morning just to find their real groups to fight. During NA both servers have very few groups to actually fight outside of large blobs. As a result, if you see an objective being contested and try to defend you don't really get a fight and you run over with your guild group, the pug attacking force sees your group and scatters. You might get one or maybe two stragglers, but no real fight. You try to take an objective? All those pugs you just ran off build a ton of siege and you have to sit there and wait until they run out of supply and try to not die under the siege that was never balanced down to loss of damage and sustain in last year's balance patches. It's incredibly boring for NA. Very few groups 20-30 people in size to fight. So, if you're in a server with several guild groups of 15-25 people in squad, it gets very boring to either be run over by the 50-60 man pug tag that just target caps all your skills making sure no one ever takes full damage, or you drag your group of 20 to every contested objective only to watch what you thought was a decent size group run away. It's not very engaging, as you rarely kill many enemies and objectives don't change hands all that often so in both PPK and PPT facing BG or SoS in NA is really boring.

[manu.7539]

@Valelutra.9128 said:

TBH, I've fought with both servers and recently been linked to one of them, and they are boring to fight. It's not about skill for either server, it's about numbers. Both servers have plenty of off hour support which inflates their points when few people play, and I don't feel like getting up at all hours of the night/early morning just to find their real groups to fight. During NA both servers have very few groups to actually fight outside of large blobs. As a result, if you see an objective being contested and try to defend you don't really get a fight and you run over with your guild group, the pug attacking force sees your group and scatters. You might get one or maybe two stragglers, but no real fight. You try to take an objective? All those pugs you just ran off build a ton of siege and you have to sit there and wait until they run out of supply and try to not die under the siege that was never balanced down to loss of damage and sustain in last year's balance patches. It's incredibly boring for NA. Very few groups 20-30 people in size to fight. So, if you're in a server with several guild groups of 15-25 people in squad, it gets very boring to either be run over by the 50-60 man pug tag that just target caps all your skills making sure no one ever takes full damage, or you drag your group of 20 to every contested objective only to watch what you thought was a decent size group run away. It's not very engaging, as you rarely kill many enemies and objectives don't change hands all that often so in both PPK and PPT facing BG or SoS in NA is really boring.

Winning in T1 require a better cooperation. If you fight a blob bigger than yours then you must build one of the same size, thats what we did at the last reset evening. After our main blob lost alot of fights roamers joined them for a last one and we won that fight. Same about roaming, you cant roam easily solo in T1 then the obvious solution is to join other roamers. Individualy BG and SoS players arent better than any other. SoS and BG are just not as stuck as other servers with many toxic guilds and players who dont want to cooperate for the win.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@"manu.7539" strong guild groups of 20-25 can alone wipe blobs of 50-60 people. the ppt gets done by small ppl groups or single ppl. most people don't commit to this "hardcare ppt" mentality, bc it's boring and stale. of course, everyone starts alike, bc that's what seems to be the "aim". but the only reward is that u get unlinked and struggle to get out of t5 in the end, if u ppt too crazy.

winning t1 is just 24/7 player number coverage, at the very off times, even 20 ppl groups are "big". and some servers have zergs even till very late night. like really, the "win" in tier one requires absolutely nothing other than that, really. our server been for years #1 ppt in tier one of EU, and this only destroyed the whoel server. big parts of the community wandered off, and ppt-hungry newbies took their places. by now it lost any identity it once had, and most people that originally been here (talking about ~3 years past from now)

@Valelutra.9128 sounds more like the problem, that guilds often don't work together too well. comms are all a bit special, and i see a lot of guild commanders who heavily overestimate their groups, despite getting farmed over and over by groups triple their size, openfield. (the 20v60 win only works if u stealthpush, kite off, full disengage, and repeat, takes a while and a lot of fast AoE damage + cleaving downed)

[manu.7539]

@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:"ppt-hungry newbies took their places. by now it lost any identity it once had, and most people that originally been here (talking about ~3 years past from now)"

Ok what if I tell you I'm mithril so not a noob who can only ppt to help his team. I enjoy fights and I didnt see many players as aggressive as me but still, I do my scouting rounds, defend camps and yaks etc. You can have the best kdr and the best fighting guilds you will never win or be competitive without a good balance between fighting and ppting. So please, be respectful for those you called noobs just because they are ppting, they are just the best peoples you can meet in this game, these guys are sacrifying their own fun for the team.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

i meant new players simply. the hardcore ppters of old are very few, they just do what they always did. but people burnt out from this kind of playstyle, which was the official reason Anet provided for not making Wvw-tournaments anymore afaik.

nobody should be " sacrificing their own fun for the team"... okay, we roleplay war, but this isn't that serious in the end. we also ppt, if we want another matchup next week, but that gets discussed in the discord. people who don't participate in the servermeetings just don't "vote". if they can argue, about "why" ppt, then it'd be another thing.

the whole ppt system isn't competitive anyways. it's about the biggest off-time crews. but it's always only for 2 months = one link duration anyways. if u motivate your ppl to become extremly active in ppt, you lose your link for the next 2months following and as unlinked, you cannot get over t4 or t3 max.