Please Make all Objects take condition damage!

[chrispy.7182]

Why are there STILL objects in the game which are immune to condition damage??? The forge event for example in Crystal dessert. the big pillar in the middle is immune to condition damage so it takes me forever to destroy it and I sometimes fail the event because of it. That is just one example. WHY aren't all objects in the game made to take condition damage???? Why is it random, some objects do, some don't.... So inconsistent. ANEt please fix this.

[Nokomis.5076]

What do you want the pillar to do? Bleed?

[Donutdude.9582]

There are more builds out there than simple condition builds. Thematically, it makes sense that inanimate objects do not take condition damage. This is something I enjoy immensely when popping back into Core Tyria. A lot of vanilla structures with condition immunity.

Learn to build for the situation. You will see much better results that way.

[Naxos.2503]

To be fair, even if objects should indeed Not bleed, be poisoned, tormented or confused ; Most of them Should burn.

[Pirogen.9561]

Wood burns. Even stone can be melted with enough heat.You could say that poison is a form of acid.For living creature to bleed, it has to be damaged. Poke, cut.

Lets just say its "damage over time".

[Diak Atoli.2085]

My only problem is the consistency of the immunity. Either all breakable objects should be immune, or none. That being said, given the large amount of different objects that would need updating throughout the game, I imagine it would be a significant undertaking for a minor issue.

[Danikat.8537]

The problem with saying you should adapt your build to what you're attacking is that's not really practical when playing. Even if you have different weapons and equipment and a relevant build all set up and ready to go you still have to start attacking the object, realise it's not vulnerable to any/most conditions, back off until you're out of combat, swap everything over, attack it, then swap back after you're done. Admittedly that's easier than in many games but it's still a pain to keep having to swap.

Part of the problem is that it's so inconsistent and unrealistic. For example the destroyer fissures which appear in some of the Dragon Response Missions are vulnerable to burning in spite of being made of lava. But then some in other places (which might be the visually identical destroyer burrows rather than fissures) are immune to burning and I think most other conditions. Some objects bleed in spite of not appearing to have any blood, others don't. As far as I know it's not documented anywhere so the only way to find out is to attack it and see what works, and that leaves you in the situation I explained above.

If it was consistent or predictable that would be a big help. The easier but boring way to do that would be to say either all destructible objects are vulnerable to all conditions or none of them are and then make sure it's consistent across the whole game, which would still be a big piece of work for someone at Anet to implement. A better approach IMO would be to make it realistic - so for example wooden objects burn but don't bleed, lava fonts (of all types) don't burn or bleed but maybe they're vulnerable to chill, and so on. But that would take even more time and in some cases it might still be necessary for players to experiment to find out what works. Those mursaat pillars in the Ring of Fire for example - what are they made of? (I think they're called jade, but I doubt they'd solid chunks of stone.) Which conditions would affect them?

[Svarty.8019]

@chrispy.7182 said:Why are there STILL objects in the game which are immune to condition damage???

Bleeding objects makes me chuckle... oh the Torment and Confusion they must feel ... eh... ye.

Good luck with that dilemma, I'm just going to /BrainOff.

Hopefully WvW keep/tower walls don't become vulnerable to conditions. It'd break the game! Hah! Let's do it! Why not?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

They did really good with it for a while, then they started introducing the problem again. For example, many objects in LS4 don't take conditions. I think its due to copying & pasting from Central Tyrian objects, but its still heavily inconsistent.

Even in IceBrood Saga its a toss-up on whether an object will take conditions or not.

[Konrad Curze.5130]

I'd go the other way, and make 50% of the objects in the game chosen randomly take very, very little direct damage, only conditions deal high damage to them

that way we spread the misery, and when everyone is miserable you know its balanced :+1:

[WindBlade.8749]

The devs did not intent that condi players should not be able to destroy the objets...

It's just that before HoT Condi build was not really a thing since there was no real way to create them (lack of stats and skills from existings weapons), the only real condi class we got was burn gardien and the cap for condition was 1 by condi.

That why object did not take condi, because they did not predict that they will be condi build in the future, they just forgot to update the objets when they introduce them.

You can see that as most of objets that do not take condi are from core.

[Oxstar.7643]

The lava fonts in ember bay burns. The ones in mount maelstrom doesn't. I think ANet wised up to the idea that slowing certain things to a crawl for condition builds didn't make much sense, but haven't touched the base game in eight years.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Donutdude.9582 said:There are more builds out there than simple condition builds. Thematically, it makes sense that inanimate objects do not take condition damage. This is something I enjoy immensely when popping back into Core Tyria. A lot of vanilla structures with condition immunity.

Learn to build for the situation. You will see much better results that way.

The DPS oriented condi builds should be fine. Viper, grieving and rampager have as much power as condition damage. Sinister and Carrion also have power as minor. According to a dev post the flag that makes things immune to conditions also makes them immune to crits so precision and ferocity can be ignored.

@"Danikat.8537" said:The problem with saying you should adapt your build to what you're attacking is that's not really practical when playing. Even if you have different weapons and equipment and a relevant build all set up and ready to go you still have to start attacking the object, realise it's not vulnerable to any/most conditions, back off until you're out of combat, swap everything over, attack it, then swap back after you're done. Admittedly that's easier than in many games but it's still a pain to keep having to swap.

Part of the problem is that it's so inconsistent and unrealistic. For example the destroyer fissures which appear in some of the Dragon Response Missions are vulnerable to burning in spite of being made of lava. But then some in other places (which might be the visually identical destroyer burrows rather than fissures) are immune to burning and I think most other conditions. Some objects bleed in spite of not appearing to have any blood, others don't. As far as I know it's not documented anywhere so the only way to find out is to attack it and see what works, and that leaves you in the situation I explained above.

If it was consistent or predictable that would be a big help. The easier but boring way to do that would be to say either all destructible objects are vulnerable to all conditions or none of them are and then make sure it's consistent across the whole game, which would still be a big piece of work for someone at Anet to implement. A better approach IMO would be to make it realistic - so for example wooden objects burn but don't bleed, lava fonts (of all types) don't burn or bleed but maybe they're vulnerable to chill, and so on. But that would take even more time and in some cases it might still be necessary for players to experiment to find out what works. Those mursaat pillars in the Ring of Fire for example - what are they made of? (I think they're called jade, but I doubt they'd solid chunks of stone.) Which conditions would affect them?

Being consistent isn't much of an improvement. They were very consistent back when the game released because they were all immune. It sucked as much then as it does now.Mordrem Husks represent the same problem for power build and that isn't any better.

IMO it is an overall game design problem that occurs when the designer fails to look at the bigger picture. They are things that get added because "wouldn't it be cool if ..." but nobody asked "what if ..." or "but how would the experience be for so and so?"

Arguments about realism is just complete BS because if that was the case gliders should be killing players more often than not. The entire Pact should be considered a bunch of idiots for building very poor defensive structures considering enemy tactics. The enemy launches their forces into our fortifications so lets continue building things without roofs. How about those pact soldiers in VB who just walks into attacks? Various creatures should be nearly if not fully immune to non-magical attacks. Others should require bludgeoning weapons like hammers and maces. Speaking of those, they should be less stupidly designed so they can concentrate the force of attacks instead of spreading the force out over a larger area.

[MaliceAwakening.9205]

Conditions (and boons) should function roughly the same way across all entities that we can engage with in combat regardless of their labels.

The actual names of those conditions/boons (and by extension the implied real-world effects by the same name) do not matter. The name is merely a player-aid meant to help provide some suggestive flavor context about what may be going on (since the interface lacks the ability to provide haptic feedback). As far as the gameplay is concerned, they could just as easily be labeled "Condition Type 1", "Condition Type 2", etc.

[Kodama.6453]

@Donutdude.9582 said:There are more builds out there than simple condition builds. Thematically, it makes sense that inanimate objects do not take condition damage. This is something I enjoy immensely when popping back into Core Tyria. A lot of vanilla structures with condition immunity.

Learn to build for the situation. You will see much better results that way.

Can we give engineer turrets the condition immunity back then, please? :(

[Astralporing.1957]

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:My only problem is the consistency of the immunity. Either all breakable objects should be immune, or none. That being said, given the large amount of different objects that would need updating throughout the game, I imagine it would be a significant undertaking for a minor issue.Ever tried to do AC burrow events with a party consisting of all condi dps players? That wasn't minor issue :anguished:

[Khisanth.2948]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:My only problem is the consistency of the immunity. Either all breakable objects should be immune, or none. That being said, given the large amount of different objects that would need updating throughout the game, I imagine it would be a significant undertaking for a minor issue.Ever tried to do AC burrow events with a party consisting of all condi dps players? That wasn't minor issue :anguished:

Some might argue attempting to do the event is already an issue.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

Dragon Response missions make this especially blatant. Those meteors that drop and you have to destroy, I have to swap to a non condi build on Firebrand. Usually I kill the mobs quick, but that stops when destroying immune objects.

[Parasite.5389]

The definition of trying to get blood from a stone

[Khisanth.2948]

@Parasite.5389 said:The definition of trying to get blood from a stone

Pretty easy to make earth elementals bleed. Also air ...

[Astralporing.1957]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Diak Atoli.2085 said:My only problem is the consistency of the immunity. Either all breakable objects should be immune, or none. That being said, given the large amount of different objects that would need updating throughout the game, I imagine it would be a significant undertaking for a minor issue.Ever tried to do AC burrow events with a party consisting of all condi dps players? That wasn't minor issue :anguished:

Some might argue attempting to do the event is already an issue.I'm not talking about the burrow at the beginning, before spider queen. This one can easily be skipped, after all. I am talking about two events, one on path 1 one on path 3, that are necessary to progress the dungeon.

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@"Parasite.5389" said:The definition of trying to get blood from a stone

Pretty easy to make earth elementals bleed. Also air ...Indeed. Earth, air, fire, ice elementals can bleed and be poisoned. Fire elementals and destroyers get damaged by burning. Risen can be poisoned... and so on, and so on. So, basically, Anet has already decided that in case of enemies, consistency is more important than trying to make things more complex for the sake of "common sense". As such, there's really no reason why the interaction between condi damage and objects should not be consistent as well.

[Khisanth.2948]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@"Parasite.5389" said:The definition of trying to get blood from a stone

Pretty easy to make earth elementals bleed. Also air ...Indeed. Earth, air, fire, ice elementals can bleed and be poisoned. Fire elementals and destroyers get damaged by burning. Risen can be poisoned... and so on, and so on. So, basically, Anet has already decided that in case of enemies, consistency is more important than trying to make things more complex for the sake of "common sense". As such, there's really no reason why the interaction between condi damage and objects should not be consistent as well.

Destroyer is actually pretty inconsistent, most are immune. Megadestroyer isn't despite living in or traveling through lava and it is somehow not DoA. I can't think of a fire elemental that isn't immune to burning except maybe the ones summoned by players. That actually made things pretty annoying for the LS4 fight in the reliquary.

[Asum.4960]

@"Donutdude.9582" said:There are more builds out there than simple condition builds. Thematically, it makes sense that inanimate objects do not take condition damage. This is something I enjoy immensely when popping back into Core Tyria. A lot of vanilla structures with condition immunity.

Learn to build for the situation. You will see much better results that way.

Tbf, if you want to make the thematic or realism argument, neither should bladed weapons or arrows be viable choices to damage most structures, or be flagged to break themselves.I don't think that's a solid argument at all.

A Pillar would bleed to death long before swords or arrows have chiseled it down. (apparently surprisingly, I was being facetious here)

At the end of the day, it's just a further annoyance to generally already slower condition builds - and really not the place for GW2 to suddenly care about it's theme and world integrity.

Plus previously thematically condition immune enemies have already been "fixed" in the past, due to the unfun dynamic they provide of suddenly invalidating certain builds/professions, in a game that otherwise doesn't care for such specifics/mechanics. As well as newer objects being changed to be affected by conditions as well. So there is precedent.The theme/realism argument falls flat, and existing non updated objects are simply an oversight/testament of Anets unwillingness at large to go back and fix things, especially concerning core.

[Donutdude.9582]

@Asum.4960 said:A Pillar would bleed to death long before swords or arrows have chiseled it down.

I am going to leave this here as my only counter to your point so everyone can see.