Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Nerf blob sustain.


Caedmon.6798

Recommended Posts

It's sad to see WvW reduced to a blob meta, I don't even like to play EB maps for this same reason. I am currently enjoying sPvP better than WvW, that is the right place for people who want to improve their skills. I will reconsider WvW when the devs will do something to deal with the current meta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Touchme.1097 said:It's sad to see WvW reduced to a blob meta, I don't even like to play EB maps for this same reason. I am currently enjoying sPvP better than WvW, that is the right place for people who want to improve their skills. I will reconsider WvW when the devs will do something to deal with the current meta.

If there are blobs on any of your maps then there is stuff to do. You better come back and clean up the WvW trash with all that improved spvp skill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, another one of those topics created by condi mains (most likely necros) calling for further nerfs to cleanse and heals. Well, less than two years back you guys did it once and ANet agreed that 2% of the player base in the forum represented the other 98% as well and over a few balance patches, handled some very devastating nerfs to anti toxin runes, Scrapper traits and even dropped their vitality by 3k. And nothing has changed over the years with ANet still having that 'all calls for nerfs are most welcomed and will be done ' attitude, you guys will succeed again. Congrats!

notes to self : Avoid WvW section, there is nothing constructive here but endless calls for nerfs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mil.3562 said:Oh, another one of those topics created by condi mains (most likely necros) calling for further nerfs to cleanse and heals. Well, less than two years back you guys did it once and ANet agreed that 2% of the player base in the forum represented the other 98% as well and over a few balance patches, handled some very devastating nerfs to anti toxin runes, Scrapper traits and even dropped their vitality by 3k. And nothing has changed over the years with ANet still having that 'all calls for nerfs are most welcomed and will be done ' attitude, you guys will succeed again. Congrats!

notes to self : Avoid WvW section, there is nothing constructive here but endless calls for nerfs

? Im zerk power.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mil.3562 said:Oh, another one of those topics created by condi mains (most likely necros) calling for further nerfs to cleanse and heals. Well, less than two years back you guys did it once and ANet agreed that 2% of the player base in the forum represented the other 98% as well and over a few balance patches, handled some very devastating nerfs to anti toxin runes, Scrapper traits and even dropped their vitality by 3k. And nothing has changed over the years with ANet still having that 'all calls for nerfs are most welcomed and will be done ' attitude, you guys will succeed again. Congrats!

notes to self : Avoid WvW section, there is nothing constructive here but endless calls for nerfs

Yeah we should have been calling for buffs to scrappers instead, purity of purpose and gyro rework that made them one of the top support in zergs wasn't enough... Oh let's not forget the amount of crying over scourge that got them nerfed multiple times cause people are too dumb to avoid red areas.

These are forums, where people give their feedback, usually about something broken.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mil.3562 said:Oh, another one of those topics created by condi mains (most likely necros) calling for further nerfs to cleanse and heals. Well, less than two years back you guys did it once and ANet agreed that 2% of the player base in the forum represented the other 98% as well and over a few balance patches, handled some very devastating nerfs to anti toxin runes, Scrapper traits and even dropped their vitality by 3k. And nothing has changed over the years with ANet still having that 'all calls for nerfs are most welcomed and will be done ' attitude, you guys will succeed again. Congrats!

notes to self : Avoid WvW section, there is nothing constructive here but endless calls for nerfs

If anyone is still complaining about Conditions in 2021 when a sigil exists that cleanses 3 on a 9 second cooldown they might want to reevaluate their build. Literally one sigil is enough Cleanse to deal with most Condi builds now. And in a zerging formant it is really as simple as knowing how to position yourself- but I know that's easier said than done for an unfortunate percentage of players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Shroud.2307 said:

@Mil.3562 said:Oh, another one of those topics created by condi mains (most likely necros) calling for further nerfs to cleanse and heals. Well, less than two years back you guys did it once and ANet agreed that 2% of the player base in the forum represented the other 98% as well and over a few balance patches, handled some very devastating nerfs to anti toxin runes, Scrapper traits and even dropped their vitality by 3k. And nothing has changed over the years with ANet still having that 'all calls for nerfs are most welcomed and will be done ' attitude, you guys will succeed again. Congrats!

notes to self :
Avoid WvW section, there is nothing constructive here but endless calls for nerfs

If anyone is still complaining about Conditions in 2021 when a sigil exists that cleanses 3 on a 9 second cooldown they might want to reevaluate their build. Literally one sigil is enough Cleanse to deal with most Condi builds now. And in a zerging formant it is really as simple as knowing how to position yourself- but I know that's easier said than done for an unfortunate percentage of players.

Except for Warriors vs Condi Heralds. Now that's a bit challenging, no matter the amount of condi cleanses.

Although I must admit, I'm seeing less condi herald/firebrand duos nowadays...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@Mil.3562 said:Oh, another one of those topics created by condi mains (most likely necros) calling for further nerfs to cleanse and heals. Well, less than two years back you guys did it once and ANet agreed that 2% of the player base in the forum represented the other 98% as well and over a few balance patches, handled some very devastating nerfs to anti toxin runes, Scrapper traits and even dropped their vitality by 3k. And nothing has changed over the years with ANet still having that 'all calls for nerfs are most welcomed and will be done ' attitude, you guys will succeed again. Congrats!

notes to self :
Avoid WvW section, there is nothing constructive here but endless calls for nerfs

If anyone is still complaining about Conditions in 2021 when a sigil exists that cleanses 3 on a 9 second cooldown they might want to reevaluate their build. Literally one sigil is enough Cleanse to deal with most Condi builds now. And in a zerging formant it is really as simple as knowing how to position yourself- but I know that's easier said than done for an unfortunate percentage of players.

Except for Warriors vs Condi Heralds. Now that's a bit challenging, no matter the amount of condi cleanses.

Although I must admit, I'm seeing less condi herald/firebrand duos nowadays...

I'm not going to disagree that it's a tough match when Condi Rev is strongest is melee range, and Warrior is typically full melee, but let's not forget Mending exists which Cleanses 5 Conditions on a 16 second traited cooldown. That's a pretty beefy Condi clearing heal. Couple that with Cleansing sigil and Brawler's Recovery and you've got enough clears to handle the fight even if it's a bit uphill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Mil.3562 said:Oh, another one of those topics created by condi mains (most likely necros) calling for further nerfs to cleanse and heals. Well, less than two years back you guys did it once and ANet agreed that 2% of the player base in the forum represented the other 98% as well and over a few balance patches, handled some very devastating nerfs to anti toxin runes, Scrapper traits and even dropped their vitality by 3k. And nothing has changed over the years with ANet still having that 'all calls for nerfs are most welcomed and will be done ' attitude, you guys will succeed again. Congrats!

notes to self : Avoid WvW section, there is nothing constructive here but endless calls for nerfs

Yet scrapper is still meta. The more you know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

T3 keep getting hit.Server Hero 1: Imma use siege. (1min later....it's useless)Server Hero 2: Imma Meteor Shower on them (Just sees block, block, block, block)Server Hero 3: Imma use pull and burst a few (Just sees immune, immune, immune)Meanwhile Plat Vet at Spawn transformed as a Choya: You can't fight that with our numbers. Back cap later. Just take supply and don't be a bag. Come to spawn, we play dancing Choya :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i mean, often the siege is placed so bad, that enemy barrage/meteors just delete it. or the user gets cc'd and pulled within seconds. same for all the "heroes" on the walls, who watch the attacking zerg and try to pew pew without having stunbreaks and stability up. makes no sense at all to even try that really.

pull and burst in 1v30 won't ever work. since the damage nerfs, u just cannot burst stuff down in one second.

and self sustain + group sustain got heavily nerfed yet, compared to the last years.

@Voltekka.2375 because scrapper is the best cleanse+healer sorta, esp after tempest nerfs. there won't come anything that outperforms this class at this job (maybe in EoD but not before)... also all the scrapper utilities combined with the sustain are just too good to replace it, just bc some nerfs, that no other class can do equally anyways.

@"XenesisII.1540" still, the point stands; the "balance" been mostly plain nerfs, without a real filter. instead of trying to buff completely unused things (weapons, traits, skills)

like what do people expect? nerfing firebrand and scrapper to unplayabilty? and then? all will just become a huge pirateship, probably healing rev and tempest would sorta take their place. and people would cry about "rev meta"... and here we go again (i mean, they do complain about rev yet... but eh. remove all classes so everybody is unhappy? idk.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:@"XenesisII.1540" still, the point stands; the "balance" been mostly plain nerfs, without a real filter. instead of trying to buff completely unused things (weapons, traits, skills)

Let's not forget that for the most part (I say most because scrappers I believe were not that great in the beginning) every single elite spec were overtuned, and added roles that were not intended to be in the game in it's first design, namely pure support specs which added so much more heals and cleanses and boons, and no longer even needed blasting fields to produce them. Plus the inflation of power since the expansion, there's only one way to go, nerfing down, not continuing to buff up. Buff useless stuff by all means (gyros are a good example of this aren't they?), but they need to continue keeping the op stuff in check.

like what do people expect? nerfing firebrand and scrapper to unplayabilty? and then? all will just become a huge pirateship, probably healing rev and tempest would sorta take their place. and people would cry about "rev meta"... and here we go again (i mean, they do complain about rev yet... but eh. remove all classes so everybody is unhappy? idk.)

And yet it was ok to over nerf scourge chrono and mirage right? when gyros got buffed and practically kicked every mesmer out of zergs. And shades being reduced to 2 targets is a god damn joke. Winds repeated nerfed into uselessness, I can barely tell if even one warrior bubble goes up in a fight these days.

You worry about lack of stability and turning into a pirateship, and yet now we have groups just walking over aoes like they don't exist, there's no fear to walk through a bomb with 12 boons and the infinite cycle of boons to condi back to boons instantly. To counter this you're expected to come up with an army of boon strippers with a coordinated bomb, meanwhile the army of scrappers and fb are sitting there mindlessly hitting a couple buttons to cleanse and heal and refreshing everything.

There are ways they can deal with the stability issue, they even mentioned it one time they thought about giving more access to stability, if they could do that and reduce the boon spam in general it would be a better step in the balance direction. But hey, wvw is the last thing they ever thing about in this game, certainly not going to care about balance when they have new specs coming to break the game again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"XenesisII.1540" said:Let's not forget that for the most part (I say most because scrappers I believe were not that great in the beginning) every single elite spec were overtuned

Oh no, Scrapper was overtuned in the beginning as well. Although it wasn't wanted in zergs, it was one of the best 1v1/small scale specs at the time. Release Scrapper was astoundingly broken. Like I would genuinely rank it top 3 most broken OP on release specs.That said, again, it wasn't so in zergs. In PvP and WvW roaming though, Scrapper was big L U L.

and added roles that were not intended to be in the game in it's first design, namely pure support specs which added so much more heals and cleanses and boons, and no longer even needed blasting fields to produce them. Plus the inflation of power since the expansion, there's only one way to go, nerfing down, not continuing to buff up. Buff useless stuff by all means (gyros are a good example of this aren't they?), but they need to continue keeping the op stuff in check.

Agreed, and this goes back to my original comment about "Game is too far powercrept to fix it now". There are roles that should never have existed by GW2's balance philosophy, and literally everything is overloaded with Boons, Conditions, and general effects. It would take such a colossal balance patch to bring everything down to a more reasonable state that ANet would be better off releasing a Guild Wars 2 Classic with no elite specs.

I don't think a lot of people are fully comprehending how much stronger and easier everything is now.

And yet it was ok to over nerf scourge chrono and mirage right? when gyros got buffed and practically kicked every mesmer out of zergs. And shades being reduced to 2 targets is a god kitten joke. Winds repeated nerfed into uselessness, I can barely tell if even one warrior bubble goes up in a fight these days.

You worry about lack of stability and turning into a pirateship, and yet now we have groups just walking over aoes like they don't exist, there's no fear to walk through a bomb with 12 boons and the infinite cycle of boons to condi back to boons instantly. To counter this you're expected to come up with an army of boon strippers with a coordinated bomb, meanwhile the army of scrappers and fb are sitting there mindlessly hitting a couple buttons to cleanse and heal and refreshing everything.

There are ways they can deal with the stability issue, they even mentioned it one time they thought about giving more access to stability, if they could do that and reduce the boon spam in general it would be a better step in the balance direction. But hey, wvw is the last thing they ever thing about in this game, certainly not going to care about balance when they have new specs coming to break the game again.

Scourge and Spellbreaker are still used, but now it's more out of necessity than because they're strong. There is just SO MUCH Boon spam that if you don't bring these things you really have no chance of wiping anything. These two specs will always have a place until something else comes along that does what they do better, be it a new elite spec, or a reworked skill/trait/utility, etc. Boon hate is just mandatory now and there isn't any other way about it.

I'm sure some might argue, "well it's this way because there are so many AOE's and Conditions!", and they're sort of right. It's a feedback loop where ANet tries to resolve one thing with another and it just keeps getting worse. Unfortunately, they stopped at support being the solution to AOE's/Conditions without continuing the cycle. Why not let everyone have an immortal sustain blob so they can smack each other with pool noodles and everyone's happy.

At times it truly can be difficult to avoid a coordinated (or even uncoordinated) bomb, especially for inexperienced players. Generally however, all it takes is familiarity and it becomes relatively easy to position yourself and read groups such that death is minimal. If ANet brings support down JUST A LITTLE we'd be in a better spot. Not so much that the feedback loop starts all over again, but just touch on a couple outliers to bring things more in line, and we can start having actual fights again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Shroud.2307" said:Oh no, Scrapper was overtuned in the beginning as well. Although it wasn't wanted in zergs, it was one of the best 1v1/small scale specs at the time. Release Scrapper was astoundingly broken. Like I would genuinely rank it top 3 most broken OP on release specs.That said, again, it wasn't so in zergs. In PvP and WvW roaming though, Scrapper was big L U L.

Yeah I didn't pay much attention to them, was mostly on my reaper, but I coulda swore people said they were one of the weaker zerg specs. :)

Agreed, and this goes back to my original comment about "Game is too far powercrept to fix it now". There are roles that should never have existed by GW2's balance philosophy, and literally everything is overloaded with Boons, Conditions, and general effects. It would take such a colossal balance patch to bring everything down to a more reasonable state that ANet would be better off releasing a Guild Wars 2 Classic with no elite specs.

I don't think a lot of people are fully comprehending how much stronger and easier everything is now.

Agreed, they did do a good step in trying to bring damage down across the board last year, but not really much of a follow up unfortunately.

Scourge and Spellbreaker are still used, but now it's more out of necessity than because they're strong. There is just SO MUCH Boon spam that if you don't bring these things you really have no chance of wiping anything. These two specs will always have a place until something else comes along that does what they do better, be it a new elite spec, or a reworked skill/trait/utility, etc. Boon hate is just mandatory now and there isn't any other way about it.

I'm sure some might argue, "well it's this way because there are so many AOE's and Conditions!", and they're sort of right. It's a feedback loop where ANet tries to resolve one thing with another and it just keeps getting worse. Unfortunately, they stopped at support being the solution to AOE's/Conditions without continuing the cycle. Why not let everyone have an immortal sustain blob so they can smack each other with pool noodles and everyone's happy.

At times it truly can be difficult to avoid a coordinated (or even uncoordinated) bomb, especially for inexperienced players. Generally however, all it takes is familiarity and it becomes relatively easy to position yourself and read groups such that death is minimal. If ANet brings support down JUST A LITTLE we'd be in a better spot. Not so much that the feedback loop starts all over again, but just touch on a couple outliers to bring things more in line, and we can start having actual fights again.

I honestly don't notice as many scourge or spellbreakers around, sometimes the odd guild group is running a bunch of warriors, but generally their usage is way down. But yes they will always be needed because they're the main boon destroyers still, and that is highly needed, (you can kinda sub mesmers in there but they're not as good), but I still think the nerfs to those two classes went too far, I agree they needed nerfing for sure from their original implementations, but not to that extent.

The infinite boon cycle is just too much and I'm more of a fan of active than passive applications, which something like purity of purpose is the biggest offender of. Just another example of anet trying to put in a step to fix a previous step. Add a bunch of boons, add of bunch of corruption, oh no too much corruption, add recycle boons, now lower corruption, adjust recycling boons? oh sorry we're working on next expansion! kitten...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

mimimi my cookie cuter build cannot oneshot things out of nowhere anymore....

roamerclasses are far harder to kill now tho. i agree there with just reverting all the bad dmg removings, make the game so everything can kill stuff. no more free roamers' land. let them eat the full dmg.

nerfing sustain would just really harm Wvw in the end.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and they nerfed WoD of Spellbreakers.

and this lelz Zerg Ball that has all the uptime health like from 60% to 100% for what, less than 1 second, and roll in a line and press skills in sync to DDOS you and the only thing that can save you is if you SIDESTEP their Zerg Ball and set your grafix to Best Performance, still exists.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...