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WillPaharu.4837

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Why would you nerf a build that is only ranked "good" (decap druid)? please refer to metabattle.com before nerfing anything. The only classes and builds that should be nerfed are the ones ranked "Meta". Meta means over powered. "Good" means it's not very effective unless played very well. Please undo the nerfs on Decap druid. It is the only druid build and one of the few ranger builds viable in conquest.

Were people actually complaining about decap druid or something??? If so that is hilarious, feel free to ignore them. Play decap druid yourself and see how not overpowered it is.

Again, please undo these nerfs to decap druid. Nerf Dragon hunters instead.

Ideally there would be no meta builds. Just all good and great, so that it comes down to skill and knowing your class and role. When there are meta builds, people flock to them because they are easier to win with. Which is cheap. I digress, as there will always be meta builds I reckon. But pls leave the "good" builds alone. They aren't the imbalance.

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@"WillPaharu.4837" said:Why would you nerf a build that is only ranked "good" (decap druid)? please refer to metabattle.com before nerfing anything. The only classes and builds that should be nerfed are the ones ranked "Meta". Meta means over powered. "Good" means it's not very effective unless played very well. Please undo the nerfs on Decap druid. It is the only druid build and one of the few ranger builds viable in conquest.

Were people actually complaining about decap druid or something??? If so that is hilarious, feel free to ignore them. Play decap druid yourself and see how not overpowered it is.

Again, please undo these nerfs to decap druid. Nerf Dragon hunters instead.

Ideally there would be no meta builds. Just all good and great, so that it comes down to skill and knowing your class and role. When there are meta builds, people flock to them because they are easier to win with. Which is cheap. I digress, as there will always be meta builds I reckon. But pls leave the "good" builds alone. They aren't the imbalance.

You don't need to ask any question..as long as it's a ranger nerf, this community will be happy..it doesn't matter whether justified or not, it's a ranger nerf and it's enough to celebrate

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

You don't need to ask any question..as long as it's a ranger nerf, this community will be happy..it doesn't matter whether justified or not, it's a ranger nerf and it's enough to celebrate

haha. I still think thief and mezmer the most hated classes tho. If a person sees them doing anything remotely well they freak out. I think the developers should focus on metabattle.com instead of listening to all the babies. hahaha. If something is meta, it's gunna need a nerf.Alternatively they could check a person's rank. if it's silver or lower they could just be ignored. yes!! mwahahaha. elitism. let the elites decide...i actually think it's a good idea. fight me.

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@WillPaharu.4837 said:

You don't need to ask any question..as long as it's a ranger nerf, this community will be happy..it doesn't matter whether justified or not, it's a ranger nerf and it's enough to celebrate

haha. I still think thief and mezmer the most hated classes tho. If a person sees them doing anything remotely well they freak out. I think the developers should focus on metabattle.com instead of listening to all the babies. hahaha. If something is meta, it's gunna need a nerf.Alternatively they could check a person's rank. if it's silver or lower they could just be ignored. yes!! mwahahaha. elitism. let the elites decide...i actually think it's a good idea. fight me.

Im pretty sure the dev only listens to the pvp/wvw discord. The forums dont really dictate anything.

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@"WillPaharu.4837" said:I think the cooldown on glyff of tides is fine, but the knockback on greatsword should be adjusted back to what it was before this highly uncalled for nerf.

The GS "nerf" might even be a buff if the ranger actually plans on HITTING the target, and not just push them away. The glyph is mainly used to decap and has no telling anyway, so the nerf is more than justified.

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@Ragnar.4257 said:Imagine referencing metabattle as some kind of argument. The site that has core engineer rated as higher than decap druid, and rates holosmith higher than renegade, DH, healbreaker.....

?? what site is rating holosmith higher than renegade? on metabattle the only meta builds displayed are renegade, dh, healbreaker.

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@WillPaharu.4837 said:

@"Ragnar.4257" said:Imagine referencing metabattle as some kind of argument. The site that has core engineer rated as higher than decap druid, and rates holosmith higher than renegade, DH, healbreaker.....

?? what site is rating holosmith higher than renegade? on metabattle the only meta builds displayed are renegade, dh, healbreaker.

Explosive Sword (Holo): 5/5Shortbow Shiro: 4.4/5

The fact is, that the ratings and 'meta' designation on metabattle are just some guy's opinion. It's no more valid than your opinion or mine, not based on some complex statistical analysis.

Saying "metabattle says......" is the same as saying "I know this dude who says......"

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@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:Imagine referencing metabattle as some kind of argument. The site that has core engineer rated as higher than decap druid, and rates holosmith higher than renegade, DH, healbreaker.....

?? what site is rating holosmith higher than renegade? on metabattle the only meta builds displayed are renegade, dh, healbreaker.

Explosive Sword (Holo): 5/5Shortbow Shiro: 4.4/5

The fact is, that the ratings and 'meta' designation on metabattle are just some guy's opinion. It's no more valid than your opinion or mine, not based on some complex statistical analysis.

Saying "metabattle says......" is the same as saying "I know this dude who says......"

the builds on meta battle that are ranked meta are the current meta builds. they are always the meta builds. the strongest builds. you're ignoring my point and trying to say it's down to opinion. but the fact is builds listed as meta are the most popular/strongest builds. I don't care about the ratings by the users, I'm saying what is actually listed on the site as meta are the meta builds. or are you going to say that shortbow rev, dh and heal breaker aren't meta? are you going to say that every meta build ever listed as a meta build is has not been a meta build?Metabattle.com meta builds are the way for seeing what the current strongest build and therefore a reliable place to look at what might be overpowered.

And on the point of user ratings, they are rated by people who actually play the build. the opinions of the players are the basis for nerfs. if you're saying we can ignore popular opionon, then arena net would never have to do a nerf again. that is not so, because popular opinion dictates the game mode. if players are saying a build is only "good" and not "great" or "meta" then it's not much of a threat or a problem.

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@WillPaharu.4837 said:

@Ragnar.4257 said:Imagine referencing metabattle as some kind of argument. The site that has core engineer rated as higher than decap druid, and rates holosmith higher than renegade, DH, healbreaker.....

?? what site is rating holosmith higher than renegade? on metabattle the only meta builds displayed are renegade, dh, healbreaker.

Explosive Sword (Holo): 5/5Shortbow Shiro: 4.4/5

The fact is, that the ratings and 'meta' designation on metabattle are just some guy's opinion. It's no more valid than your opinion or mine, not based on some complex statistical analysis.

Saying "metabattle says......" is the same as saying "I know this dude who says......"

the builds on meta battle that are ranked meta are the current meta builds. they are always the meta builds. the strongest builds. you're ignoring my point and trying to say it's down to opinion. but the fact is builds listed as meta are the most popular/strongest builds. I don't care about the ratings by the users, I'm saying what is actually listed on the site as meta are the meta builds. or are you going to say that shortbow rev, dh and heal breaker aren't meta? are you going to say that every meta build ever listed as a meta build is has not been a meta build?Metabattle.com meta builds are the way for seeing what the current strongest build and therefore a reliable place to look at what might be overpowered.

And on the point of user ratings, they are rated by people who actually play the build. the opinions of the players are the basis for nerfs. if you're saying we can ignore popular opionon, then arena net would never have to do a nerf again. that is not so, because popular opinion dictates the game mode. if players are saying a build is only "good" and not "great" or "meta" then it's not much of a threat or a problem.

No, I'm saying that Shortbow Rev, Dh, and Healbreaker are not the only meta builds.

Where is fireweaver? Where is core-guard support?

Just because something is not listed as meta on metabattle, does not mean it isn't meta. And just because decap-druid was only rated as "good" doesn't mean that it was actually worse than the great/meta rated builds.

Metabattle is useful as a general guideline for new players. It is not the holy gospel of universal truth on all things meta. It usually lags behind the meta by several months.

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@"WillPaharu.4837" said:Why would you nerf a build that is only ranked "good" (decap druid)? please refer to metabattle.com before nerfing anything. The only classes and builds that should be nerfed are the ones ranked "Meta". Meta means over powered. "Good" means it's not very effective unless played very well. Please undo the nerfs on Decap druid. It is the only druid build and one of the few ranger builds viable in conquest.

Were people actually complaining about decap druid or something??? If so that is hilarious, feel free to ignore them. Play decap druid yourself and see how not overpowered it is.

Again, please undo these nerfs to decap druid. Nerf Dragon hunters instead.

Ideally there would be no meta builds. Just all good and great, so that it comes down to skill and knowing your class and role. When there are meta builds, people flock to them because they are easier to win with. Which is cheap. I digress, as there will always be meta builds I reckon. But pls leave the "good" builds alone. They aren't the imbalance.

This is absurdly insane that you believe decap druid is fine for pvp. It produces insanely brain afk gameplay and very little counterplay unless you play full power warrior or rev for example. Anyone can play druid and get really good value with the most basic knowledge of it, if you believe that ANYONE, no matter how good or bad they are should be allowed to get value with a low skillcap build i believe you may need to change your view on pvp.

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@Kachros.4751 said:

@"WillPaharu.4837" said:Why would you nerf a build that is only ranked "good" (decap druid)? please refer to metabattle.com before nerfing anything. The only classes and builds that should be nerfed are the ones ranked "Meta". Meta means over powered. "Good" means it's not very effective unless played very well. Please undo the nerfs on Decap druid. It is the only druid build and one of the few ranger builds viable in conquest.

Were people actually complaining about decap druid or something??? If so that is hilarious, feel free to ignore them. Play decap druid yourself and see how not overpowered it is.

Again, please undo these nerfs to decap druid. Nerf Dragon hunters instead.

Ideally there would be no meta builds. Just all good and great, so that it comes down to skill and knowing your class and role. When there are meta builds, people flock to them because they are easier to win with. Which is cheap. I digress, as there will always be meta builds I reckon. But pls leave the "good" builds alone. They aren't the imbalance.

This is absurdly insane that you believe decap druid is fine for pvp. It produces insanely brain afk gameplay and very little counterplay unless you play full power warrior or rev for example. Anyone can play druid and get really good value with the most basic knowledge of it, if you believe that ANYONE, no matter how good or bad they are should be allowed to get value with a low skillcap build i believe you may need to change your view on pvp.

Just to clarify, i am in no sense defending DH either, there are many builds that were not touched upon enough within the last patch, or in the last few patches for that matter, however they have targeted good spots for those few degenerate builds that deserved their nerfs, whether or not its enough is up for debate however.

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@Kachros.4751 said:

@"WillPaharu.4837" said:Why would you nerf a build that is only ranked "good" (decap druid)? please refer to metabattle.com before nerfing anything. The only classes and builds that should be nerfed are the ones ranked "Meta". Meta means over powered. "Good" means it's not very effective unless played very well. Please undo the nerfs on Decap druid. It is the only druid build and one of the few ranger builds viable in conquest.

Were people actually complaining about decap druid or something??? If so that is hilarious, feel free to ignore them. Play decap druid yourself and see how not overpowered it is.

Again, please undo these nerfs to decap druid. Nerf Dragon hunters instead.

Ideally there would be no meta builds. Just all good and great, so that it comes down to skill and knowing your class and role. When there are meta builds, people flock to them because they are easier to win with. Which is cheap. I digress, as there will always be meta builds I reckon. But pls leave the "good" builds alone. They aren't the imbalance.

This is absurdly insane that you believe decap druid is fine for pvp. It produces insanely brain afk gameplay and very little counterplay unless you play full power warrior or rev for example. Anyone can play druid and get really good value with the most basic knowledge of it, if you believe that ANYONE, no matter how good or bad they are should be allowed to get value with a low skillcap build i believe you may need to change your view on pvp.

decap druid isn't easy. I sense you haven't tried playing it. It's no weaver, but it's not walk in the park. you can easily waste your knockbacks anand misplay, get killed or waste your time, render yourself useless.

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@"Sigmoid.7082" said:So the crux of your argument is the build, based on metabattle, isn't strictly meta therefore shouldn't be nerfed / can in no way can be a problem or threat?

...

You must be new here.Loads of stuff in that category has been changed in the past.

I don't care about how often it's done, I don't see the logic behind it. have you seen "good" builds in plat games? the crux of my argument is they aren't even remotely meta. have you even seen a decap druid in high ranked games? have you seen a druid in a team that has won monthly ATs? The build is not that effective compared to broken builds. Dragon hunter and rev short bow should be the priority. The nerfs weren't that bad, but I maintain that they were uncalled for and bottom priority.

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@WillPaharu.4837 said:

@WillPaharu.4837 said:Why would you nerf a build that is only ranked "good" (decap druid)? please refer to metabattle.com before nerfing anything. The only classes and builds that should be nerfed are the ones ranked "Meta". Meta means over powered. "Good" means it's not very effective unless played very well. Please undo the nerfs on Decap druid. It is the only druid build and one of the few ranger builds viable in conquest.

Were people actually complaining about decap druid or something??? If so that is hilarious, feel free to ignore them. Play decap druid yourself and see how not overpowered it is.

Again, please undo these nerfs to decap druid. Nerf Dragon hunters instead.

Ideally there would be no meta builds. Just all good and great, so that it comes down to skill and knowing your class and role. When there are meta builds, people flock to them because they are easier to win with. Which is cheap. I digress, as there will always be meta builds I reckon. But pls leave the "good" builds alone. They aren't the imbalance.

This is absurdly insane that you believe decap druid is fine for pvp. It produces insanely brain afk gameplay and very little counterplay unless you play full power warrior or rev for example. Anyone can play druid and get really good value with the most basic knowledge of it, if you believe that ANYONE, no matter how good or bad they are should be allowed to get value with a low skillcap build i believe you may need to change your view on pvp.

decap druid isn't easy. I sense you haven't tried playing it. It's no weaver, but it's not walk in the park. you can easily waste your knockbacks anand misplay, get killed or waste your time, render yourself useless.

Ive played it numerous times vs both good and bad players, you have 3 knockbacks in about 8 seconds (with quickdraw), if you use even 1 IQ you bait enemy dodge and its easy, it takes next to 0 effort to keep a node decapped, the only scenario in which its not easy is if you vs a hard counter for it, being renegade or warrior. In terms of gameplay weaver is actually harder as you only need to know 3 things for druid, in terms of surviving druid is harder as it has very little counter pressure due to its very low damage, however that doesnt stop the gameplay being so brain afk. Supporting builds like this which do 0 damage, just provide insane value for little effort (especially in ranked and lower levels) is what makes pvp so bad right now, its a bunker/decap metas that get complained about the most and for good reason, keeping builds like this viable makes pvp overall worse and targeting them for nerfs is a good choice, there are some players who wish to keep builds like these as it can be personal preference but the fact remains that its not healthy for pvp.

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@WillPaharu.4837 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:So the crux of your argument is the build, based on metabattle, isn't strictly meta therefore shouldn't be nerfed / can in no way can be a problem or threat?

...

You must be new here.Loads of stuff in that category has been changed in the past.

I don't care about how often it's done, I don't see the logic behind it. have you seen "good" builds in plat games? the crux of my argument is they aren't even remotely meta. have you even seen a decap druid in high ranked games? have you seen a druid in a team that has won monthly ATs? The build is not that effective compared to broken builds. Dragon hunter and rev short bow should be the priority. The nerfs weren't that bad, but I maintain that they were uncalled for and bottom priority.

Your logic here is flawed, very flawed, just because something is meta does not make it "fine" for pvp, to clarify Fraelin played decap druid and won the last mAT, that alone is misinformation on your part, lets say for example some of the "meta" builds get nerfed, guess whats gonna happen. Yeah, decap druid would be good again, they are providing nerfs for future issues as well as issues at hand, its a good choice which we have needed for a long time.

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@WillPaharu.4837 said:

@"Sigmoid.7082" said:So the crux of your argument is the build, based on metabattle, isn't strictly meta therefore shouldn't be nerfed / can in no way can be a problem or threat?

...

You must be new here.Loads of stuff in that category has been changed in the past.

I don't care about how often it's done, I don't see the logic behind it. have you seen "good" builds in plat games? the crux of my argument is they aren't even remotely meta. have you even seen a decap druid in high ranked games? have you seen a druid in a team that has won monthly ATs? The build is not that effective compared to broken builds. Dragon hunter and rev short bow should be the priority. The nerfs weren't that bad, but I maintain that they were uncalled for and bottom priority.

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Here are the problems with the arguments being made.1) It assumes metabattle is a source of truth for what is strong and therefore deserves nerfs. This is a false assumption to make as many others have already described.2) It assumes that the only reason you nerf skills is due to it being meta. This is also a false assumption to make. For instance, decap builds could very well just be nerfed because they are insanely unfun to play against, regardless of their effectiveness. Effectiveness of a build is not the only reason to buff/nerf something.

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most rangers will agree that fuck decap druid.They should probably nerf ancient seed too because fuck that trait, then they can go ahead and nerf it again and again and THAN they can think about making druid a proper support instead of this pile of smelly cheese.

P.Sreducing gs KB to 100 might be a buff, but in my personal opinon it just looks super silly, make it 150 or 200 please.

PSSsrsl fucking decap druid with a stick. Sideways.

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