Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Good Patch?!


Crozame.4098

Recommended Posts

Given the frequent balance patches, this patch is like 30 out of 100 at the very best.

  1. Support core guardian has been out for quite a while and its healing output is quite insane. Yet only war support is nerfed. And the 100+th nerf on fullcounter?...
  2. The war banner bug?
  3. downstate and ress traits are not touched.
  4. Many builds with low effort yet high reward are untouched: condi thief, condi soulbeast, condi trapper soulbeast.
  5. The bug on rev build templates? Also been there for ages.

On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

PS: tried rene SB. The seven shot reduces from 4k to 2.5k. So I am just wondering whether there are other undocumneted nerfs on rene~PS2: I also knew support guard would not be touched., its just sad.

PS3: Can devs also say more about the matchmaking? Is it true that the total amount of game played also influence match making? If that is the case, please fix it, because you are punishing ppl playing the game, which is absurd. If not, then please make it clear that total amount of games is not included. Then what about the number of suspension? report received? Can you please clarify?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you piss off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I knew core supp guard would be left untouched, but no trapper rune nerf was disappointing

  1. Bug seemed to be around for a while, but only now ppl learned to replicate

  2. Prolly wont be touched till expansion

  3. Agreed

  4. Game has been balanced for a dead pro scene for too long. I think this is one of the main reasons they loae player base. They are balancing a game for like 50 ppl and this is NA +EU, what could go wrong hum. And when newbies come to forums all they read is l2p l2p l2p, so they go back to lol probably when they want to pvp

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Khalisto.5780" said:I knew core supp guard would be left untouched, but no trapper rune nerf was disappointing

  1. Bug seemed to be around for a while, but only now ppl learned to replicate

  2. Prolly wont be touched till expansion

  3. Agreed

  4. Game has been balanced for a dead pro scene for too long. I think this is one of the main reasons they loae player base. They are balancing a game for like 50 ppl and this is NA +EU, what could go wrong hum. And when newbies come to forums all they read is l2p l2p l2p, so they go back to lol probably when they want to pvp

  1. I knew that too. I am really not sure how anet addresses balances, if the majority of the weight is based on complaints on forum, then its really sad. If its based on MAT, then its also sad.
  2. I think you are not that current. Most ppl who cry l2p are gold or at most p1. If they truely balance towards mid p2 in EU or mid p1 in US, then might be better.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crozame.4098 said:

@"Khalisto.5780" said:I knew core supp guard would be left untouched, but no trapper rune nerf was disappointing
  1. Bug seemed to be around for a while, but only now ppl learned to replicate
  2. Prolly wont be touched till expansion
  3. Agreed
  4. Game has been balanced for a dead pro scene for too long. I think this is one of the main reasons they loae player base. They are balancing a game for like 50 ppl and this is NA +EU, what could go wrong hum. And when newbies come to forums all they read is l2p l2p l2p, so they go back to lol probably when they want to pvp
  1. I knew that too. I am really not sure how anet addresses balances, if the majority of the weight is based on complaints on forum, then its really sad. If its based on MAT, then its also sad.
  2. I think you are not that current. Most ppl who cry l2p are gold or at most p1. If they truely balance towards mid p2 in EU or mid p1 in US, then might be better.

Right now it think they should focus on where most player base is, prolly 1250-1350, if they ppl are happy some of them will actually become better, and the others at least will keep playing, and even invite their friends.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more shit, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said only balance for lower ranks. I said include every single rating range. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

What do you mean by toxic builds? I think there will be more toxic builds if balance based on lower rank,.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

What do you mean by toxic builds? I think there will be more toxic builds if balance based on lower rank,.

All those one-shot builds before February like FA weaver and power mesmer.All those stealth-condi builds like condi thief or - currently - burn DH (which is strong even in higher brackets, but way less prevalent).All those AI builds like MM necros.

Buffing because of lower ranks might be difficult to do, but nerfing needs to be done. Otherwise it would be like doing tax regulations only for the super rich. Surprise - the people are not happy with it. Or, in our case, we have low population.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

What do you mean by toxic builds? I think there will be more toxic builds if balance based on lower rank,.

All those one-shot builds before February like FA weaver and power mesmer.All those stealth-condi builds like condi thief or - currently - burn DH (which is strong even in higher brackets, but way less prevalent).All those AI builds like MM necros.

Buffing because of lower ranks might be difficult to do, but nerfing needs to be done. Otherwise it would be like doing tax regulations only for the super rich. Surprise - the people are not happy with it. Or, in our case, we have low population.

based on my impression, high players do not play those builds. At least not the majority of them, The majority of them play other builds~ Brun DH should be gone in high rating matches. But trapper condi soulb~~ its also cancer~

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

What do you mean by toxic builds? I think there will be more toxic builds if balance based on lower rank,.

All those one-shot builds before February like FA weaver and power mesmer.All those stealth-condi builds like condi thief or - currently - burn DH (which is strong even in higher brackets, but way less prevalent).All those AI builds like MM necros.

Buffing because of lower ranks might be difficult to do, but nerfing needs to be done. Otherwise it would be like doing tax regulations only for the super rich. Surprise - the people are not happy with it. Or, in our case, we have low population.

based on my impression, high players do not play those builds. At least not the majority of them, The majority of them play other builds~ Brun DH should be gone in high rating matches. But trapper condi soulb~~ its also cancer~

You are mostly right (burn DH sees some play up into highest ranks), but those are - or have been - haressing lower ranks and were complained about. :smile: Those builds might not be objectively OP and have their hard counters in higher ranked play, but when they make lower ranked people abandon PVP, nobody should be surprised about the low population situation we are having.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

What do you mean by toxic builds? I think there will be more toxic builds if balance based on lower rank,.

All those one-shot builds before February like FA weaver and power mesmer.All those stealth-condi builds like condi thief or - currently - burn DH (which is strong even in higher brackets, but way less prevalent).All those AI builds like MM necros.

Buffing because of lower ranks might be difficult to do, but nerfing needs to be done. Otherwise it would be like doing tax regulations only for the super rich. Surprise - the people are not happy with it. Or, in our case, we have low population.The builds you mentioned are a result of design decisions, not of balancing. The reason why they work against low skill players is that these players lack the awareness of them. Having the awareness can be called skill and skill should decide the outcome of a fight.

No balance patch will solve the issue that bronze division is another game than plat division. Classes would require a complete rework to equal that.

The game went into this direction with the release of the first addon. Before that the overall complexity was that low that design reworks were realistic options. It's too late now and it gets worse with every new addon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

What do you mean by toxic builds? I think there will be more toxic builds if balance based on lower rank,.

All those one-shot builds before February like FA weaver and power mesmer.All those stealth-condi builds like condi thief or - currently - burn DH (which is strong even in higher brackets, but way less prevalent).All those AI builds like MM necros.

Buffing because of lower ranks might be difficult to do, but nerfing needs to be done. Otherwise it would be like doing tax regulations only for the super rich. Surprise - the people are not happy with it. Or, in our case, we have low population.The builds you mentioned are a result of design decisions, not of balancing. The reason why they work against low skill players is that these players lack the awareness of them. Having the awareness can be called skill and skill should decide the outcome of a fight.

No balance patch will solve the issue that bronze division is another game than plat division. Classes would require a complete rework to equal that.

The game went into this direction with the release of the first addon. Before that the overall complexity was that low that design reworks were realistic options. It's too late now and it gets worse with every new addon.

That... doesn't really address my point though, does it? Of course lower ranked players play very different playstyles, builds and have very different experiences than higher ranks. Nobody would ever deny that, I hope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

What do you mean by toxic builds? I think there will be more toxic builds if balance based on lower rank,.

All those one-shot builds before February like FA weaver and power mesmer.All those stealth-condi builds like condi thief or - currently - burn DH (which is strong even in higher brackets, but way less prevalent).All those AI builds like MM necros.

Buffing because of lower ranks might be difficult to do, but nerfing needs to be done. Otherwise it would be like doing tax regulations only for the super rich. Surprise - the people are not happy with it. Or, in our case, we have low population.

based on my impression, high players do not play those builds. At least not the majority of them, The majority of them play other builds~ Brun DH should be gone in high rating matches. But trapper condi soulb~~ its also cancer~

You are mostly right (burn DH sees some play up into highest ranks), but those are - or have been - haressing lower ranks and were complained about. :smile: Those builds might not be objectively OP and have their hard counters in higher ranked play, but when they make lower ranked people abandon PVP, nobody should be surprised about the low population situation we are having.

You really cant balance based on golds. Because another important part of pvp is map rotation, and know how to kite around. These has nothing to do with balance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

What do you mean by toxic builds? I think there will be more toxic builds if balance based on lower rank,.

All those one-shot builds before February like FA weaver and power mesmer.All those stealth-condi builds like condi thief or - currently - burn DH (which is strong even in higher brackets, but way less prevalent).All those AI builds like MM necros.

Buffing because of lower ranks might be difficult to do, but nerfing needs to be done. Otherwise it would be like doing tax regulations only for the super rich. Surprise - the people are not happy with it. Or, in our case, we have low population.

based on my impression, high players do not play those builds. At least not the majority of them, The majority of them play other builds~ Brun DH should be gone in high rating matches. But trapper condi soulb~~ its also cancer~

You are mostly right (burn DH sees some play up into highest ranks), but those are - or have been - haressing lower ranks and were complained about. :smile: Those builds might not be objectively OP and have their hard counters in higher ranked play, but when they make lower ranked people abandon PVP, nobody should be surprised about the low population situation we are having.

You really cant balance based on golds. Because another important part of pvp is map rotation, and know how to kite around. These has nothing to do with balance.

You can. And it has.

You should consider (not as your only source!) it for reasons mentioned above. I am not going to repeat myself. Just think about where this low population comes from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Megametzler.5729 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

What do you mean by toxic builds? I think there will be more toxic builds if balance based on lower rank,.

All those one-shot builds before February like FA weaver and power mesmer.All those stealth-condi builds like condi thief or - currently - burn DH (which is strong even in higher brackets, but way less prevalent).All those AI builds like MM necros.

Buffing because of lower ranks might be difficult to do, but nerfing needs to be done. Otherwise it would be like doing tax regulations only for the super rich. Surprise - the people are not happy with it. Or, in our case, we have low population.

based on my impression, high players do not play those builds. At least not the majority of them, The majority of them play other builds~ Brun DH should be gone in high rating matches. But trapper condi soulb~~ its also cancer~

You are mostly right (burn DH sees some play up into highest ranks), but those are - or have been - haressing lower ranks and were complained about. :smile: Those builds might not be objectively OP and have their hard counters in higher ranked play, but when they make lower ranked people abandon PVP, nobody should be surprised about the low population situation we are having.

You really cant balance based on golds. Because another important part of pvp is map rotation, and know how to kite around. These has nothing to do with balance.

You can. And it has.

You should
consider
(not as your only source!) it for reasons mentioned above. I am not going to repeat myself. Just think about where this low population comes from.

.... i am pretty confident that you are wrong, but do not want to waste more time on this.

ok..Maybe one last note:

You can. And it has.In which patch does dumping down the game acutally benefitted game? The Thief adjustment of angle to chagne the distance of dagger 2; the nerf on portal etc... These dumping down changes do not help the game.

Think about 2-3 years ago. How many low effort high reward builds you see? There is no condi druid, condi thief, trapper DH, flamethrower Scrapper. All these retarded builds emerge after the half done patch.

Further dump things down, then there is no incentive to get good, because it does not matter, and the pvp will be truely dead. It's already sad to see p1 p2 games, ppl do not know how to rotate, how to kite, and tunnel vision on mid and close....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Crozame.4098 said:

@Crozame.4098 said:(...)On another note: should ANET balance's focus on MAT or high level ranked? I think it might be better to balance based on high level ranked. Because the majority of games are ranked games. And in ranked only duo que is allowed. Uncoordinated games are very different from MAT games. Therefore, the meta on the metabattle might be slightly misguilded.

The majority of games are low ranked games. They should not be excluded either, maybe even considered first. When you kitten off your playerbase, nobody will care about the few good players. Saying something goes rampant in lower ranks does not make a build okay, when the people stop playing there.

Agree about the first part, many things stayed untouched and at the same time, there were some poor decisions included.

No, you cannot balance a game based on players do not have some level of knowledge. I am not saying 1800+ but p2 should be fine. MAT is just a different story.

I strongly disagree.

When you allow all those toxic newbie-farmers to haress lower ranks nobody should be surprised there is a population problem.

I mean, this game is out for 8 years. Of course experince players are better than newbies. If you focus on balancing on lower tiers then the game will be more kitten, personal skill does not matter, and what matters are class and comp. This bad trend has been in place for a while. This is why, when I play a fresh new accout despite winning 1v1 and 1v2 at far, yet I still lost my second placement.

This game has good pvp system. And if you balance according to gold1-2 players, then skill does not matter, then more and more ppl will quit. I realy dont understand your logic....

I never said
only
balance for lower ranks. I said
include every single rating range
. And ATs, if you like.

If you ignore the situation in lower ranks, why would anyone be surprised about low population?

Lower ranks means : they dont care or they are new or they dont understand the game, or they are just very bad mechaincally for example, click all abilities by mouse. Tell me how to balance base on these players? This will only make the game worse.

Yet 90% of the players are in those rating ranges. If you have toxic builds which leads to 50% of those to quit the game, nobody will be happy. People already complain about low population, we all - and Anet first - need to start considering why that is.

What do you mean by toxic builds? I think there will be more toxic builds if balance based on lower rank,.

All those one-shot builds before February like FA weaver and power mesmer.All those stealth-condi builds like condi thief or - currently - burn DH (which is strong even in higher brackets, but way less prevalent).All those AI builds like MM necros.

Buffing because of lower ranks might be difficult to do, but nerfing needs to be done. Otherwise it would be like doing tax regulations only for the super rich. Surprise - the people are not happy with it. Or, in our case, we have low population.

based on my impression, high players do not play those builds. At least not the majority of them, The majority of them play other builds~ Brun DH should be gone in high rating matches. But trapper condi soulb~~ its also cancer~

You are mostly right (burn DH sees some play up into highest ranks), but those are - or have been - haressing lower ranks and were complained about. :smile: Those builds might not be objectively OP and have their hard counters in higher ranked play, but when they make lower ranked people abandon PVP, nobody should be surprised about the low population situation we are having.

You really cant balance based on golds. Because another important part of pvp is map rotation, and know how to kite around. These has nothing to do with balance.

You can. And it has.

You should
consider
(not as your only source!) it for reasons mentioned above. I am not going to repeat myself. Just think about where this low population comes from.

.... i am pretty confident that you are wrong, but do not want to waste more time on this.

ok..Maybe one last note:

You can. And it has.In which patch does dumping down the game acutally benefitted game? The Thief adjustment of angle to chagne the distance of dagger 2; the nerf on portal etc... These dumping down changes do not help the game.

Think about 2-3 years ago. How many low effort high reward builds you see? There is no condi druid, condi thief, trapper DH, flamethrower Scrapper. All these kitten builds emerge after the half done patch.

Further dump things down, then there is no incentive to get good, because it does not matter, and the pvp will be truely dead. It's already sad to see p1 p2 games, ppl do not know how to rotate, how to kite, and tunnel vision on mid and close....

Damn, I can't stop.

  1. it is not about dumbing down the game.

  2. Nerfing toxic builds in low ranks has zero effect on the higher ranked players. Those builds simply don't work there.

  3. We need to stop only regarding the top 5% of the players for balancing. If the other 95% have no fun in PVP, we will keep our population problem. That is a major issue.

  4. Stop the chauvinism. 95% are more important than 5%. If any sports loses its playerbase, it loses all relevance. Why should Anet only cater the top 100 players, when they are the only ones left? Why should they invest any balancing effort into those 100 players, when there are 100.000 in PVE?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...