Druid: Improving Supportive Performance in Group Settings

[Soilder.3607]

Hello. In terms of large groups and zergs, Druid has been underused in comparison to other elite specializations. Most prominently, Firebrand and Scrapper are more preferred supportive specs when compared to the Druid. The reasons for this are varying.

The Firebrand offers superior boon output and can grant the highly useful Stability and Protection, while the Druid cannot share Stability with teammates and has limited means of sharing Protection. Though the Druid can offer more raw healing than the Firebrand, the Firebrand's numerous sources of condition cleansing, boon sharing, and respectable healing output nullifies this advantage.

The Scrapper cannot unconditionally share boons as frequently as the Firebrand may, but offers some of the highest condition cleansing output in the game that also doubles as a way to convert conditions into boons. On top of this, the Scrapper packs easy access to utilities such as group superspeed and stealth while also being able to sustain powerful and constant healing.

The suggestions below are put forth in an attempt to improve the Druid's ability to support groups by improving some of their more selfish traits as well as improving some underperforming skills.

Druidic Clarity

• Instead of clearing all conditions from the Druid, this trait should remove 3 conditions from the Druid and 3 more conditions from up to 5 allies around the Druid, with an AoE radius of 300. This change would shift the power of this skill away from supporting solely the Druid to supporting himself and his teammates, thereby making the Druid more vulnerable to conditions yet enhancing his ability to cleanse his allies.

Seed of Life

• The radius of this skill should be increased to 240. Correspondingly, the blind duration will be reduced to 3 seconds. This radius increase is significant enough to make Seed of Life a much more reliable tool for cleansing allies, as the prior radius of 180 is limited. It is now much more likely to affect its total potential of 5 targets.

Lingering Light

• When entering Celestial Avatar mode, instead of your next attack blinding your foe and healing yourself, up to 5 enemies near you are immediately blinded for 4 seconds at a radius of 300. The 50% increase in healing to allies would remain the same. This trait has a design flaw in that entering Celestial Avatar mode removes much of your ability to attack enemies by replacing your skill bar with Celestial Avatar skills. The Lingering Light effect as it is now only lasts for 5 seconds, during which time it is likely that the Druid will spend most of his time healing and not attacking foes, wasting some potential of the trait.

Celestial Shadow

• This trait will no longer grant stealth. Instead, superspeed will be granted to the Druid and his allies when he both enters and leaves Celestial Avatar form. This change will allow the druid to more frequently grant superspeed to his allies. Though the loss of stealth may be impactful on roamers, in large fights it is less of a consequence where the ability to grant superspeed is more beneficial.

Cosmic Ray

• Instead of being a ground targeted skill, this skill will now always land directly on the Druid. Its radius will be increased from 120 to 240, and consequently it should see a healing reduction of 20%. This change greatly increases the usability of Cosmic Ray as the prior radius is extremely difficult to heal allies with. The PBAoE nature was chosen to make it consistent with other healing "auto-attacks" such as Med Blaster and Desert Bloom.

Astral Wisp

• This skill will be redesigned. The new version will retain the same range, cooldown, and casting time with an improved radius of 240. Instead of summoning an astral wisp to circle your foe and heal allies periodically, the skill will now immediately cause an astral explosion on your target that heals allies with a healing power scaling of 550(0.5) and a target cap of 5. Enemies in the blast range will be blinded for 3 seconds but take no damage.

I do not anticipate Druid replacing the current staples of Firebrand and Scrapper; these suggestions are merely an attempt to push the specialization in the right direction. Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

[Infusion.7149]

First it needs to have perma-stow pet and decent astral force generation. The nerfs to damage and healing compounded the difficulty of astral force generation before the large Feb 2020 competitive balance rework.

The healing without celestial avatar is nowhere near enough to compete with the likes of heal tempest or the insane scaling on scrapper with med kit (which is 100% available and at range) that also clears conditions in bulk.

Firebrands will continue to be used as long as they have the best stability generation and aegis output, even if the healing has been nerfed significantly.

Re: your suggestionsDruidic Clarity : have it remove immob/cripple every time. That's something that would make it beneficial over bulk removal. Heal tempest can trait for burning + chill removal on dodge, I think immob / cripple removal would be fitting on class that applies immob and cripple. This would hard counter muddy terrain , any scourge corrupts that change to torment+cripple, or "aftershock" (tempest shout) for example.

Celestial Shadow: I don't believe additional superspeed is a wise suggestion. People are asking for superspeed reductions currently, so the best option is to have the superspeed to apply on entrance into Celestial Avatar and the stealth when leaving it. If your suggestion is to benefit WvW solely, "stealth your pet when you gain stealth" if perma-stow pet cannot be implemented.

Cosmic ray: Also by changing Cosmic ray to a PBAOE instead of a ground target it blunts any advantages you might have from running a druid over a firebrand. I would strongly reconsider suggesting a change in that vein.

[Kovu.7560]

Seeing all of the nerfs to druids over the years, including the healing output of Celestial Avatar skills, reducing the time gate on Celestial Avatar back down to 10 seconds to allow for more frequent healing and utilization of the traits would definitely help. I like the suggestions above, it would be a good start. As suggested though, druid has a long way to go before it competes with tempest, scrapper or firebrand on the support spectrum. A rework of the staff skills to be more support-oriented (and, frankly, relevant) would be another way to touch on this.

~ Kovu

[Gotejjeken.1267]

As a roaming Druid, no to all of that.

Any further reductions to healing are a no go, especially since you have to invest so heavily into healing power in the first place just to be able to support. Which in turn makes it hard to be self-sufficient, and being a heal bot is about as boring as it gets.

Also, There's no reason to shift the full clear to allies so you are useless when you are alone, and no reason to take the stealth away from celestial shadow. Part of that stealth isn't just so the Druid can escape, it's so allies can, and also so you can rez an ally in stealth.

The only really awful skills are astral wisp and cosmic ray.

Radius increases are fine as some are laughably small--looking at you verdant etching--but what druid really needs is some sustain. Something like stability on Glyph of Stars would be a good start.

[subversiontwo.7501]

I didn't bother reading the post beyond just letting it flash by (sorry).

However, I've posted about the topic a fair bit on the Ranger forums in the past.

To give a very brief summary: The Druid's most important problems are two. 1) The staff mechanics fit poorly into the variety of WvW content (making Celestial both too important for its heals and not accessible enough in certain situations), they seem mostly built around channelling through your pet to build Celestial power but the pet is used very differently in different types of content. 2) Similar to the staff mechanics not really befitting WvW, the nerfs to the Druid's support functions were done for PvE raid reasons and when Anet sat down to decide on what abilities to keep and which to gut, they kept abilities with mechanics that do not work in WvW (like %dmg spirits) while they gutted it from glyphs and traits.

That essentially robbed the spec of much of the roles embedded in its builds. This stuff keeps the Druid as just a PvE raider, solo/duo roamer and clouder. That isn't broad enough for me. However, all it needs is for these things to be adressed (Staff 1 being a narrow cone instead; offensive support being better available in WvW situations through either mechanical changes or moving that support to abilities with mechanics that fit better here - as it used to be).

[Infusion.7149]

@Kovu.7560 said:Seeing all of the nerfs to druids over the years, including the healing output of Celestial Avatar skills, reducing the time gate on Celestial Avatar back down to 10 seconds to allow for more frequent healing and utilization of the traits would definitely help. I like the suggestions above, it would be a good start. As suggested though, druid has a long way to go before it competes with tempest, scrapper or firebrand on the support spectrum. A rework of the staff skills to be more support-oriented (and, frankly, relevant) would be another way to touch on this.

~ Kovu

CA is 10s cooldown and 15s duration in WvW, same as PVE. Don't confuse WVW with PVP.

[God.2708]

Glyph of the Stars.

[Kovu.7560]

@Infusion.7149 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:Seeing all of the nerfs to druids over the years, including the healing output of Celestial Avatar skills, reducing the time gate on Celestial Avatar back down to 10 seconds to allow for more frequent healing and utilization of the traits would definitely help. I like the suggestions above, it would be a good start. As suggested though, druid has a long way to go before it competes with tempest, scrapper or firebrand on the support spectrum. A rework of the staff skills to be more support-oriented (and, frankly, relevant) would be another way to touch on this.

~ Kovu

CA is 10s cooldown and 15s duration in WvW, same as PVE. Don't confuse WVW with PVP.

My mistake, it's been about three years since I've played a druid of any form in wvw. I only play it as a side noder in pvp.Regardless, you could treat CA like an engi's kit and people likely still wouldn't suggest it over a scrapper or firebrand.

~ Kovu

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

The biggest reason Druid isn't used its because its just not very good at mobility. Yes, Firebrand, Scrapper and even Tempest are better supports, but if you look at what makes them better supports its not specific boons like Stability but that all their skills can be cast while moving, have low cast times overall and are difficult to interrupt, and often affect enemies in some negative way too.

Imagine Firebrand without Quickness, Scrapper without Superspeed, then throw in long, often rooting skill casts.

Druid is good on concept, but this is an action game where you roll over things. If Druid could realistically keep up with a group while still having all their support abilities viable, they'd still be taken by groups despite the deficiencies.

Just take a look at Healbreaker, which I main. It's all about mobility in WvW.

[jul.7602]

I agree. > @"Soilder.3607" said:

Hello. In terms of large groups and zergs, Druid has been underused in comparison to other elite specializations. Most prominently, Firebrand and Scrapper are more preferred supportive specs when compared to the Druid. The reasons for this are varying.

The Firebrand offers superior boon output and can grant the highly useful Stability and Protection, while the Druid cannot share Stability with teammates and has limited means of sharing Protection. Though the Druid can offer more raw healing than the Firebrand, the Firebrand's numerous sources of condition cleansing, boon sharing, and respectable healing output nullifies this advantage.

The Scrapper cannot unconditionally share boons as frequently as the Firebrand may, but offers some of the highest condition cleansing output in the game that also doubles as a way to convert conditions into boons. On top of this, the Scrapper packs easy access to utilities such as group superspeed and stealth while also being able to sustain powerful and constant healing.

The suggestions below are put forth in an attempt to improve the Druid's ability to support groups by improving some of their more selfish traits as well as improving some underperforming skills.

Druidic Clarity

• Instead of clearing all conditions from the Druid, this trait should remove 3 conditions from the Druid and 3 more conditions from up to 5 allies around the Druid, with an AoE radius of 300. This change would shift the power of this skill away from supporting solely the Druid to supporting himself and his teammates, thereby making the Druid more vulnerable to conditions yet enhancing his ability to cleanse his allies.

Seed of Life

• The radius of this skill should be increased to 240. Correspondingly, the blind duration will be reduced to 3 seconds. This radius increase is significant enough to make Seed of Life a much more reliable tool for cleansing allies, as the prior radius of 180 is limited. It is now much more likely to affect its total potential of 5 targets.

Lingering Light

• When entering Celestial Avatar mode, instead of your next attack blinding your foe and healing yourself, up to 5 enemies near you are immediately blinded for 4 seconds at a radius of 300. The 50% increase in healing to allies would remain the same. This trait has a design flaw in that entering Celestial Avatar mode removes much of your ability to attack enemies by replacing your skill bar with Celestial Avatar skills. The Lingering Light effect as it is now only lasts for 5 seconds, during which time it is likely that the Druid will spend most of his time healing and not attacking foes, wasting some potential of the trait.

Celestial Shadow

• This trait will no longer grant stealth. Instead, superspeed will be granted to the Druid and his allies when he both enters and leaves Celestial Avatar form. This change will allow the druid to more frequently grant superspeed to his allies. Though the loss of stealth may be impactful on roamers, in large fights it is less of a consequence where the ability to grant superspeed is more beneficial.

Cosmic Ray

• Instead of being a ground targeted skill, this skill will now always land directly on the Druid. Its radius will be increased from 120 to 240, and consequently it should see a healing reduction of 20%. This change greatly increases the usability of Cosmic Ray as the prior radius is extremely difficult to heal allies with. The PBAoE nature was chosen to make it consistent with other healing "auto-attacks" such as Med Blaster and Desert Bloom.

Astral Wisp

• This skill will be redesigned. The new version will retain the same range, cooldown, and casting time with an improved radius of 240. Instead of summoning an astral wisp to circle your foe and heal allies periodically, the skill will now immediately cause an astral explosion on your target that heals allies with a healing power scaling of 550(0.5) and a target cap of 5. Enemies in the blast range will be blinded for 3 seconds but take no damage.

I do not anticipate Druid replacing the current staples of Firebrand and Scrapper; these suggestions are merely an attempt to push the specialization in the right direction. Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

I agree

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Most of these changes look good, also I would like to delete Ancient Seed from game since it's pure kitten aids.Ancient Seed -> After leaving Celestial Avatar, leave on the ground 6 seeds that will have one of 3 random effects: 1) Grant 3s of Resistance and Protection; 2) Grant 5s of Regeneration and Swiftness; 3) Grant 3s of Retaliation and Vigor or something something...You could also consider replacing completely pets with new F1-F4 skills that would focus on support and increase your astral energy gain.

[lare.5129]

druid is already overpowered, and cross the line of content types can minimize character range for many player.

[Arheundel.6451]

@"Soilder.3607" said:Hello. In terms of large groups and zergs, Druid has been underused in comparison to other elite specializations. Most prominently, Firebrand and Scrapper are more preferred supportive specs when compared to the Druid. The reasons for this are varying.

The Firebrand offers superior boon output and can grant the highly useful Stability and Protection, while the Druid cannot share Stability with teammates and has limited means of sharing Protection. Though the Druid can offer more raw healing than the Firebrand, the Firebrand's numerous sources of condition cleansing, boon sharing, and respectable healing output nullifies this advantage.

The Scrapper cannot unconditionally share boons as frequently as the Firebrand may, but offers some of the highest condition cleansing output in the game that also doubles as a way to convert conditions into boons. On top of this, the Scrapper packs easy access to utilities such as group superspeed and stealth while also being able to sustain powerful and constant healing.

The suggestions below are put forth in an attempt to improve the Druid's ability to support groups by improving some of their more selfish traits as well as improving some underperforming skills.

Druidic Clarity

• Instead of clearing all conditions from the Druid, this trait should remove 3 conditions from the Druid and 3 more conditions from up to 5 allies around the Druid, with an AoE radius of 300. This change would shift the power of this skill away from supporting solely the Druid to supporting himself and his teammates, thereby making the Druid more vulnerable to conditions yet enhancing his ability to cleanse his allies.

Seed of Life

• The radius of this skill should be increased to 240. Correspondingly, the blind duration will be reduced to 3 seconds. This radius increase is significant enough to make Seed of Life a much more reliable tool for cleansing allies, as the prior radius of 180 is limited. It is now much more likely to affect its total potential of 5 targets.

Lingering Light

• When entering Celestial Avatar mode, instead of your next attack blinding your foe and healing yourself, up to 5 enemies near you are immediately blinded for 4 seconds at a radius of 300. The 50% increase in healing to allies would remain the same. This trait has a design flaw in that entering Celestial Avatar mode removes much of your ability to attack enemies by replacing your skill bar with Celestial Avatar skills. The Lingering Light effect as it is now only lasts for 5 seconds, during which time it is likely that the Druid will spend most of his time healing and not attacking foes, wasting some potential of the trait.

Celestial Shadow

• This trait will no longer grant stealth. Instead, superspeed will be granted to the Druid and his allies when he both enters and leaves Celestial Avatar form. This change will allow the druid to more frequently grant superspeed to his allies. Though the loss of stealth may be impactful on roamers, in large fights it is less of a consequence where the ability to grant superspeed is more beneficial.

Cosmic Ray

• Instead of being a ground targeted skill, this skill will now always land directly on the Druid. Its radius will be increased from 120 to 240, and consequently it should see a healing reduction of 20%. This change greatly increases the usability of Cosmic Ray as the prior radius is extremely difficult to heal allies with. The PBAoE nature was chosen to make it consistent with other healing "auto-attacks" such as Med Blaster and Desert Bloom.

Astral Wisp

• This skill will be redesigned. The new version will retain the same range, cooldown, and casting time with an improved radius of 240. Instead of summoning an astral wisp to circle your foe and heal allies periodically, the skill will now immediately cause an astral explosion on your target that heals allies with a healing power scaling of 550(0.5) and a target cap of 5. Enemies in the blast range will be blinded for 3 seconds but take no damage.

I do not anticipate Druid replacing the current staples of Firebrand and Scrapper; these suggestions are merely an attempt to push the specialization in the right direction. Thank you for taking the time to read this post.

Nerfing Druidic Clarity would effectively remove the ability of rangers to mass clear condi when all other support specs can...thus making druid even less than a good choice plus killing it for general solo players.

All other support have ways to deal with heavy focus, thus removing Celestial Shadow would make druid completely pointless to play, plus again it would kill the spec for solo roaming .

Play first other support specs and write down the whole list of self support they have where you would effectively remove druid with your suggestions.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

1. I would personally be okay with this but it would raise a big stink with smallscale/roaming Druids as well as PvP Druid players. Probably more digestible if the CD on CA was reduced to 10-15s in PvP.
2. 240r or a lesser delay would be wonderful. It is actually insane how many condis you can cleanse in a controlled environment, but the combined delay and small radius really hurts its actual practical application.
3. I think this would be fine. To be honest the blind feels like an afterthought and like a flavor touch. Wouldn't mind seeing the blind replaced with something completely different tbh.
4. I disagree with this one. Celestial Shadow is a really really strong trait for smaller scale play. While admittedly a bit cheesy, I really think it should stay.
5. I disagree with this one. One of Druid's strengths should be ranged healing/support. The skill could use adjustments to the cast time and delay to make it more reliable, but I really dont like the idea of making it PBAoE. I would much rather that staff 1 also pulse healing in a 180 PBAoE radius.
6. Anything would be better than the current garbage that is Astral Wisp. I like your suggestion but my preference is for it to be a 240r AoE with 1200 range that blinds on impact and pulses healing over 3 seconds (to emphasize staff being designed to excel at generating celestial force). That or at least make the skill castable on oneself if no target is selected.

There are a lot of changes that I think the spec could use, but the biggest ones for me would be to simply make staff 1 and CA 1 & 2 more practical/reliable, and to rework staff 2, which I honestly think is one of the absolute worst weapon skills in the game in the context of WvW.