Why are map specific currencies time gated?

[Veprovina.4876]

First, a disclamer!

I don't have a specific opinion on this, on why that is or how it should or shouldn't be. I'm just curious what people think.

So, map currencies are a staple of Guild wars 2 for a while now. We've seen a bunch of iterations so far. From Silverwastes/HoT currencies that you get from doing events, then container farming via the "keys" you get from those events, to node/karmaheart based ones in LS3/LS4, and to a degree PoF trade contracts that are obtainable in various ways, both from events and from "stash" type containers.

Thery can be (i think) divided into mainly 2 groups. Event based ones, and node based ones.

Event based ones require you to obviously do events, then you use those keys like crowbars on stuff to get airship parts.Node based ones require mining tools and are limited to a certain amount per day while karma hearts are "unlimited" (but still limited to how much karma you have).

The biggest difference i can see is that, in the case of the event ones, you can basically park one character in a map, do the meta over and over, and you get as much currency as you can farm keys. Those are still limited "per day" but if you spend a whole day doing the map meta, you can pretty much guarantee a large amount of map currency.

You can't do that with node based ones - but - if you have a large amount of lvl 80 characters, you can do hearts over and over and buy them for karma (which will eventually run out - though not any time soon, depending on how karma rich you are).

This means that the event based acquisition lends itself better to a single character farm, while node based ones favor players with multiple alts.

Now again i'm not saying one is better than the other, i'm just noticing things.

Then there's Winterberries. Unlimited acquisition via node farming and heart farming per character, not per account per day - AND - each node is a guaranteed map currency.

My question is - why are not all nodes like that? Why does it matter if someone wants to spend all their free time farming nodes, instead of limiting it to a certain amount per account per day? What's more - not all nodes guarantee a map currency item which kind of artificially prolongs the farming process (which most players don't find fun).

What's more then - all those time gated nodes are tied to one of the grindiest achievements in the game - Skyscale. Plus a lot of skins, that are again also tied to achievements to unlock them.

Now, some of you will probably say i answered my own question right there, but did i? The one argument i heard is that it makes it more difficult to acquire. But artificially prolonging the time required to get isn't difficult, it's still the same effort required whether you farm it in one day or in 10 days. So why isn't there an option for people who want to farm the whole day to just do it with arguably more effort, but quicker? Because you can essentially do that in HoT, it depends on the player, not the game, how much currencies you'll get per day. So why are the nodes limited, while event ones "not limited" (they are, but you get the idea). It takes arguably more effort to do events though as opposed to pressing F on nodes so maybe that's the balance?

And again, for the record i already have the Skyscale, i'm not complaining it was hard, i actually liked how they did the achievements for getting it, i'm just asking what people think.

So, what do you think?

[Danikat.8537]

Are there map currencies which only come from nodes and not from events? As far as I remember they all come from both.

If I'm farming a map currency I usually start with the nodes, just because it's something I can do solo without needing to know timings or how the events work (it's likely to be a map I haven't been back to in a while) but if I see events starting up or someone organising a group I'll join in and that usually gets me more of the currency than the nodes.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Danikat.8537 said:Are there map currencies which only come from nodes and not from events? As far as I remember they all come from both.

If I'm farming a map currency I usually start with the nodes, just because it's something I can do solo without needing to know timings or how the events work (it's likely to be a map I haven't been back to in a while) but if I see events starting up or someone organising a group I'll join in and that usually gets me more of the currency than the nodes.

Only in dragonfall i think, and some meta events. For instance, Death branded Shatterer gives like, 5 mistonium, but again, once per day. If you do it more, you don't get anything as opposed to doing like, a Verdant brink meta that gets you crowbars all the time without restrictions. And no other event in Jahai gives map currency from what i remember. So that's still in a way time gated. Thunderhead peaks meta events generate nodes, but if you had your daily limit, they won't spawn for you. I don't remember any other even that directly gives map currency. Even dragonfall doesn't, it just spawns chests you can loot, and those require keys, so if you didn't do all the pre events, you won't have enough. Kourna also spawns chests in that meta and those are i think unlimited as opposed to the rest, but the nodes there aren't.

[Darts.4807]

@"Veprovina.4876" said:And no other event in Jahai gives map currency from what i remember.

When I was getting currency for Skyscale on alt account, I only did those https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Repel_the_Branded_invasion_and_close_the_rifts events on several characters, there are 5 unique events per character and they are soloable - 25 daily/per character.

[Kondor.2904]

I feel like timegates basically exist to serve three purposes:



First one is to forcefully keep in line those players who are able to invest a lot of hours of farming in a single go with those who have a more limited amount of time each day, so that progression-wise the latter don’t slack too far behind.



Second one is to artificially extend the lifetime of the map/meta/event, so that it doesn’t get abandoned shortly after release, which will also help softening the feel of content drought inbetween the releases.


And the final one is an illusion(?) of a long-term progression where it doesn’t come from naturally arising obstacles but from a simple timegate where the progression does not take form of getting better at something but rather investing enough time into something, which may or may not correlate with each other.

[Veprovina.4876]

@"WIR BRAUCHEN ONE EIGHTY.4257" said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:And no other event in Jahai gives map currency from what i remember.

When I was getting currency for Skyscale on alt account, I only did those

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Repel_the_Branded_invasion_and_close_the_rifts

events on several characters, there are 5 unique events per character and they are soloable - 25 daily/per character.

Ah, nice! Didn't know those also reward map currency! Good to know!They're still a time gate though right? You can't do them on one character multiple times right?If not, then it's the same as my Shatterer point, you can't really farm them the way you can HoT, you need a lot of alts.

@"Kondor.2904" said:I feel like timegates basically exist to serve three purposes:



First one is to forcefully keep in line those players who are able to invest a lot of hours of farming in a single go with those who have a more limited amount of time each day, so that progression-wise the latter don’t slack too far behind.



Second one is to artificially extend the lifetime of the map/meta/event, so that it doesn’t get abandoned shortly after release, which will also help softening the feel of content drought inbetween the releases.


And the final one is an illusion(?) of a long-term progression where it doesn’t come from naturally arising obstacles but from a simple timegate where the progression does not take form of getting better at something but rather investing enough time into something, which may or may not correlate with each other.

Very good points! Thank you!

Yeah, i've heard the argument that it's done so it limits farming, but progression wise, there's not much to gain from it other than ascended trinkets which are easy to obtain even without intense farming. The rest is fashion mostly, like the Requiem glowing armor from Jahai bluffs. In such cases like, who cares if someone gets the set in a day or in a week? (and again, i got mine, farming for more weights, i'm not complaining, just a conversation).

About the extending map life. Do you think the maps where the currencies aren't limited are dead because of it? Cause i haven't seen it honestly, so i can see the idea behind that argument, but not seeing it in practice. Winterberry farm is still super popular and those are unlimited per day...

I agree with the illusion of progression though. A lot of the stuff in GW2 tends to be time gated so it seems "harder to get", but really isn't, just takes time.

[Omega.6801]

Short answer: to create (pseudo)content.

Slightly longer answer: To keep players engaged with the game over longer periods of time. By timegating materials/currencies/achievements ANet wants to make sure that a player keeps playing every day. For once there's the fear of missing out, when you skip a day, also, while the player has logged in, "only to do the daily [whatever timegated thing]", the player might just as well keep playing for another hour or two. Maybe economy has something to do with it as well, but I'm not an expert on that matter.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Except for LS2, all LS maps have had nodes and events which give the map currencies. All post-LS2 maps, excluding Bloodstone Fen, Dragonfall, and LS5, also have heart vendors which give the map currencies.

All of these are timegated on the character level, the account level, or a combination of both. This was likely done to keep players coming back to the maps each day rather than farm everything the first day and never come back again.

[Veprovina.4876]

@"lokh.2695" said:Short answer: to create (pseudo)content.

Slightly longer answer: To keep players engaged with the game over longer periods of time. By timegating materials/currencies/achievements ANet wants to make sure that a player keeps playing every day. For once there's the fear of missing out, when you skip a day, also, while the player has logged in, "only to do the daily [whatever timegated thing]", the player might just as well keep playing for another hour or two. Maybe economy has something to do with it as well, but I'm not an expert on that matter.

Well i can't argue with that, definitely another good point.Seems to be working too i guess, prevents player base from going down and spiking, makes it smooth.

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Except for LS2, all LS maps have had nodes and events which give the map currencies. All post-LS2 maps, excluding Bloodstone Fen, Dragonfall, and LS5, also have heart vendors which give the map currencies.

Now that you mention it, indeed, all LS maps have node currencies while the expansions have more "unlimited" ways of getting their specific currencies.And since LS maps are episodic, that's probably a way to keep people playing while they work on the next episode release!

Which begs the question - after the whole season is done and a new one started, why aren't the artificial caps at least increased in the "old content" maps? They're not trying to keep anyone distracted anymore til the next episode arrives, there's already a new living story, why not increase the cap so that people can catch up to the story quicker?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@"Ayrilana.1396" said:Except for LS2, all LS maps have had nodes and events which give the map currencies. All post-LS2 maps, excluding Bloodstone Fen, Dragonfall, and LS5, also have heart vendors which give the map currencies.

Now that you mention it, indeed, all LS maps have node currencies while the expansions have more "unlimited" ways of getting their specific currencies.And since LS maps are episodic, that's probably a way to keep people playing while they work on the next episode release!

Which begs the question - after the whole season is done and a new one started, why aren't the artificial caps at least increased in the "old content" maps? They're not trying to keep anyone distracted anymore til the next episode arrives, there's already a new living story, why not increase the cap so that people can catch up to the story quicker?

Probably because they don’t do a “catch up” mechanic which would undermine the efforts of players who previous farmed those currencies.

Many of those currencies also let you purchase ascended trinkets which is probably another reason acquisition rates are not increased.

Yet another reason is that those currencies can be converted to the season currencies (e.g. inbound/volatile magic) which can be exchanged for items that have items which can be sold on the TP.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

While the topic is Currencies and I endeavor to stay there, this is part of Achievements in general as Currencies and Rewards are tied to Achievements so I post with that in mind.

There have been some catch-up mechanics applied, most obviously Eternal Ice shards being traded for LS4 currencies. While you can exchange Eternal Ice for LS4 currencies with no limit today, the first few months there was a daily cap for this exchange. They have also gone back to adjust some content to balance the Time and Effort required, as an example, recently Rylands Conversations with IBS Drizzlewood 1/2 had the time gate drop from Weekly to Daily. If you read through the patch notes over the years, you will see many inclusions for subtle changes to how we receive rewards, usually making it a little easier.

I believe that the developers have been very deliberate in costing the Time and Effort required for the rewards. While Episode to Episode might not appear consistent, we can see how they have refined some aspects while also trying out new ideas. When they have gone back to adjust the Time and Effort required it has been fairly subtle and not devaluing the reward for doing so.

So why would a game company gate rewards behind Time and Effort?

Would you play a game that launched some DLC that was basically "here is a story, but before you go, here is some new armor and weapon skins, a title, and a bag full of coins and mats, now go enjoy that story! (ps, there are no further rewards)" I would bet that most players would skip the story, or likely not even engage in the game because the rewards have no value.

It sounds potentially preposterous, but at some point there is a minimum level of effort required by the player for the rewards to have value and to work towards those rewards.

For those that have done it. we all shared in the Time and Effort required for the Skyscale collections. We all know how much time and effort went into earning the Skyscale. We see someone on a Skyscale and we know that person spent days or weeks collecting everything, doing the events and such. In fact, if you are online enough you have probably helped other players work towards the Skyscale because it is a relatively big undertaking.

So we can understand the Time and Effort to get the Skyscale and can understand the perceived value of it. We value it for it's utility, but also value the sense of accomplishment for attaining it. We might forget that moment of "Oh yeah, I did it!" when completing a collection but that is why most players are playing. When I see a bunch of players on Skyscales, I think about a bunch of players who had that "Oh yeah, I did it!" moment as well.

Would it have mattered if we were having to farm 10k nodes or slay 10k mobs or, hey, press one of 104 keys on your keyboard for a total of 10k times.... Probably not, although given the diversity of options we have for attaining the rewards in this game it masks the fact we are just pressing buttons over and over to get a virtual reward.

So why would the developers put all this effort into making challenges and then time gating them?

To incentivize players to log in day over day, knowing that the more we play, the more we stay, the more likely we are to spend money. This game isn't made for us the players, it is made by a company trying to make money. The company is providing us with a fun diversion from whatever else our lives have, and if they can sell us a dopamine hit by offering us fun activities with the perception of valued rewards (lots more "Oh yeah!" moments), people will continue to pay/play them.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:There have been some catch-up mechanics applied, most obviously Eternal Ice shards being traded for LS4 currencies. While you can exchange Eternal Ice for LS4 currencies with no limit today, the first few months there was a daily cap for this exchange.

This was an alternate source but I wouldn't call it a "catch up" mechanic.

They have also gone back to adjust some content to balance the Time and Effort required, as an example, recently Rylands Conversations with IBS Drizzlewood 1/2 had the time gate drop from Weekly to Daily.

I assume that you're referring to Bangor in EotN as I don't recall any time-gated conversation with Ryland. This was programmed from the beginning. The release of further conversation steps was timegated but there was no timegate on already released conversations. You just needed to re-zone or re-log to progress to the next.

[Mungo Zen.9364]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:There have been some catch-up mechanics applied, most obviously Eternal Ice shards being traded for LS4 currencies. While you can exchange Eternal Ice for LS4 currencies with no limit today, the first few months there was a daily cap for this exchange.

This was an alternate source but I wouldn't call it a "catch up" mechanic.

They provided an easier way to farm currency after the content had aged. They did so by first adding the conversion and second by making the conversion unlimited a few months later. For someone who didn't play during LS4 this feels like a catch up mechanic as LS4 is slower to grind currency than Bjora Marches.

They have also gone back to adjust some content to balance the Time and Effort required, as an example, recently Rylands Conversations with IBS Drizzlewood 1/2 had the time gate drop from Weekly to Daily.

I assume that you're referring to Bangor in EotN as I don't recall any time-gated conversation with Ryland. This was programmed from the beginning. The release of further conversation steps was timegated but there was no timegate on already released conversations. You just needed to re-zone or re-log to progress to the next.

That was my mistake, the Achieve is Confer with Bangar and there are many threads from summer 2020 referencing the time gating on the conversations. It appears that they released the conversations every week or two, but made it possible to have all conversations with Bangar after they had been released using the method you described.

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:There have been some catch-up mechanics applied, most obviously Eternal Ice shards being traded for LS4 currencies. While you can exchange Eternal Ice for LS4 currencies with no limit today, the first few months there was a daily cap for this exchange.

This was an alternate source but I wouldn't call it a "catch up" mechanic.

They provided an easier way to farm currency after the content had aged. They did so by first adding the conversion and second by making the conversion unlimited a few months later. For someone who didn't play during LS4 this feels like a catch up mechanic as LS4 is slower to grind currency than Bjora Marches.

It was an extra source but I wouldn't call it easier nor quicker. We likely have different interpretations on what a "catch up" mechanic is.

They have also gone back to adjust some content to balance the Time and Effort required, as an example, recently Rylands Conversations with IBS Drizzlewood 1/2 had the time gate drop from Weekly to Daily.

I assume that you're referring to Bangor in EotN as I don't recall any time-gated conversation with Ryland. This was programmed from the beginning. The release of further conversation steps was timegated but there was no timegate on already released conversations. You just needed to re-zone or re-log to progress to the next.

That was my mistake, the Achieve is Confer with Bangar and there are many threads from summer 2020 referencing the time gating on the conversations. It appears that they released the conversations every week or two, but made it possible to have all conversations with Bangar after they had been released using the method you described.

I think most of those threads were about the inconsistency around when the next conversation would be available as there really wasn't a schedule that we could see from our end. I gave up checking early on and just waited until they were all available as I couldn't be bothered.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Except for LS2, all LS maps have had nodes and events which give the map currencies. All post-LS2 maps, excluding Bloodstone Fen, Dragonfall, and LS5, also have heart vendors which give the map currencies.

Now that you mention it, indeed, all LS maps have node currencies while the expansions have more "unlimited" ways of getting their specific currencies.And since LS maps are episodic, that's probably a way to keep people playing while they work on the next episode release!

Which begs the question - after the whole season is done and a new one started, why aren't the artificial caps at least increased in the "old content" maps? They're not trying to keep anyone distracted anymore til the next episode arrives, there's already a new living story, why not increase the cap so that people can catch up to the story quicker?

Probably because they don’t do a “catch up” mechanic which would undermine the efforts of players who previous farmed those currencies.

Many of those currencies also let you purchase ascended trinkets which is probably another reason acquisition rates are not increased.

Yet another reason is that those currencies can be converted to the season currencies (e.g. inbound/volatile magic) which can be exchanged for items that have items which can be sold on the TP.

Well the players efforts wouldn't have gone to waste if they did, and they kinda already did "amend" certain things like - from what i'm told - Skyscale used to be a lot more difficult to acquire, they cut down some time gates for instance... Didn't undermine the players who already got it, i mean, they still got their Skyscale.

And i didn't mean like, double the amount, but just increase it a bit.

The conversion to unbound/volatile magics is yes, a good argument on why they're time gated, but then again - Winterberries are not. People farm those, and you can buy Magic-wrapped bundles for them that are arguably more lucrative than something like trophy shipmets. And nothing happened, the mats are still expensive, still rare, TP didn't crash... I mean, i'd see it if they only cost unbound/volatile magic, but they cost a gold piece each so it won't crash the economy if they would have unlocked the time gate. Or at least make every node guarantee a map currency.

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:While the topic is Currencies and I endeavor to stay there, this is part of Achievements in general as Currencies and Rewards are tied to Achievements so I post with that in mind.

I mean, if you have something you want to discuss related to currencies (and yes, some achievements are), i don't see a problem with it. It's not like you'd be going off topic, so mods won't delete that i think. Go for it! Speak your mind. :smile:

There have been some catch-up mechanics applied, most obviously Eternal Ice shards being traded for LS4 currencies. While you can exchange Eternal Ice for LS4 currencies with no limit today, the first few months there was a daily cap for this exchange. They have also gone back to adjust some content to balance the Time and Effort required, as an example, recently Rylands Conversations with IBS Drizzlewood 1/2 had the time gate drop from Weekly to Daily. If you read through the patch notes over the years, you will see many inclusions for subtle changes to how we receive rewards, usually making it a little easier.

That requires the next living story, but yes, i see what you mean. Though, i wouldn't call that a catch up mechanic maybe, more like, "cleanup" mechanic for those who want to play the new stuff, while still doing stuff that they have in LS4. Besides, one of the arguments here was that time gates keep people playing on X maps, doesn't that contradict that a bit?

I believe that the developers have been very deliberate in costing the Time and Effort required for the rewards. While Episode to Episode might not appear consistent, we can see how they have refined some aspects while also trying out new ideas. When they have gone back to adjust the Time and Effort required it has been fairly subtle and not devaluing the reward for doing so.

So why would a game company gate rewards behind Time and Effort?

Would you play a game that launched some DLC that was basically "here is a story, but before you go, here is some new armor and weapon skins, a title, and a bag full of coins and mats, now go enjoy that story! (ps, there are no further rewards)" I would bet that most players would skip the story, or likely not even engage in the game because the rewards have no value.

It sounds potentially preposterous, but at some point there is a minimum level of effort required by the player for the rewards to have value and to work towards those rewards.

I get that, it's more "delicious" if it takes some time, that's definitely true. :tongue:And of course, i would never assume they release something that is extremely farmable in a living episode, they do need to keep people playing - time gates do just that. But when the living story has run its course and people have moved on to a new one, i don't see a reason why they wouldn't just at least guarantee a map currency item from every node. That would still be time gated, but less. And also, nothing is "really" time gated if you have tons of alts in the game and just do hearts with all the characters. Someone could very well have gotten all the rewards in a few days, finished the story and then been done with the living story episode. I don't really see a problem with that if someone wants to rush things. Most people wont anyway, even given the chance, it's not like everyone enjoys farming.

For those that have done it. we all shared in the Time and Effort required for the Skyscale collections. We all know how much time and effort went into earning the Skyscale. We see someone on a Skyscale and we know that person spent days or weeks collecting everything, doing the events and such. In fact, if you are online enough you have probably helped other players work towards the Skyscale because it is a relatively big undertaking.

So we can understand the Time and Effort to get the Skyscale and can understand the perceived value of it. We value it for it's utility, but also value the sense of accomplishment for attaining it. We might forget that moment of "Oh yeah, I did it!" when completing a collection but that is why most players are playing. When I see a bunch of players on Skyscales, I think about a bunch of players who had that "Oh yeah, I did it!" moment as well.

Personally, Skyscale - after that "i did it" moment, quickly became "just a normal thing i have now". I still marvel at how useful it is from time to time, but that feeling never lasts. Would i have gotten that feeling if it was done in a day? Definitely not. And i like that they did it that way, and all the playing you have to do with it, watching it grow - but that's the point - Skyscale was time gated beyond just map currencies. I would have been completely fine with it if i could have grinded all of those in a day rather than like, 3 days it took me (i had some extra from WvW so my grind wasn't as long as it could have been). So in a way, i did get the Skyscale "mostly" witout currency time gates, and i still got my "i did it!" moment. But that's because the rest of the achievements are laid out that way, and i think they should have gotten more in that direction instead of "the grind".

For example, instead of farming currencies, there could have been a whole new set of achievements that, when done, each separately grant 200 of each maps currency (one map currency bundle per sets of achievements). They could have involved doing map events, going back to old maps etc., and then you farmt he rest of the 50 from nodes. I think that would have been more engaging then just artificially bloating the grind with map currency farm.

Would it have mattered if we were having to farm 10k nodes or slay 10k mobs or, hey, press one of 104 keys on your keyboard for a total of 10k times.... Probably not, although given the diversity of options we have for attaining the rewards in this game it masks the fact we are just pressing buttons over and over to get a virtual reward.

I mean, yeah haha, all games are like that. :tongue: Mounts for example, they're a solution to an artificiall created problem (like a huge gap that you need the raptor for), and simmilar. When you look at it like that, nothing makes sense. :tongue:

So why would the developers put all this effort into making challenges and then time gating them?

To incentivize players to log in day over day, knowing that the more we play, the more we stay, the more likely we are to spend money. This game isn't made for us the players, it is made by a company trying to make money. The company is providing us with a fun diversion from whatever else our lives have, and if they can sell us a dopamine hit by offering us fun activities with the perception of valued rewards (lots more "Oh yeah!" moments), people will continue to pay/play them.

At the end of the day, that's probably it yeah. I just think that the "older" episodes could maybe do well with having probably just a guaranteed currency per node, when they're not current anymore. People would still be in game, spending time, playing both older and new episodes, idk, might be good for the game. But to be honest, it's not at all "bad" in any way like it is, so who knows.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

A lot of the different maps, especially in Season 3, are inconsistent based on what the map vendor sells you. Bloodstone Fen was nerfed to terrible levels because of the stat swapping trinkets making them basically legendary effective.

They fixed Season 4 by making all vendor purchases absolutely worthless to make it future proof. Those laurel purchases we're punishing, especially in Thunderhead Peaks, since PoF's trinket vendor.

[lare.5129]

welcome to spvp/wvw track. No time gate for you.

[Luthan.5236]

I think the main reaseon is to make it harder to quickly get those currencies. For the s3 maps (as well as s4) you have different amount of stuff you can buy with them. The winterberries have some aquabreather ascended items associatd where you'd need to buy all 3 (each one a lot of berries!) to unlock all the skins. (Buying 1 is not unlocking all 3 weight classes for the skin.)

That might be the reason why they are easier to obtain. Bloodstone Fen offers the highly valuable ascended trinkets that basically can change their stats for free (well only a little bit unbound magic ... which you will have tons of later). That is why this currency probably is considered the hardest to obtain.

There are also minis, tonics, ... from the vendors. For season 4 I noticed that the amount of that stuff varies from map to map. I think Sandswept Isles did not have too much. So the currency was a bit harder to obtain there. Kralkatite Ore needs a ton for the weapon sets ... but it is easier to obtain than other currencis in s4. (Renown hearts give more and meteor at high level ... if you are lucky and someone is doing meteoirs ... gives a lot.)

In Kourna you need 500 (+200 for the firt step) for an optional achievement. (Ascended banner back item which comes with a title "Dauntless".) Jahai has the armor set. I think grindiest probably will be the one in Thunderhead Peaks. Normal collection needs a lot of currency and then you have the ascended one that needs even more. (+ mini collections per each weapon).

In the end it will serve as something that "forces" the player to stop. (Some actually might get exhausted by grinding the same stuff over and over and can't stop themselves. An obsessive-compulsive thing.) Also it will keep people playing the maps for a bit longer. (Having more population there.)

Yeah of course ... some might make tons of chars (but that also needs char slots and levelling them to 80 maybe to not die that quick in the lv. 80 are) to still farm that stuff quickly which you can do per char (certain nodes) ... but they probably are a minority.

Normally I'd recommend doing most map achievements there. Then just moving on and coming back to s3/s4 doing the dailies and buying stuff every now and then when enough currency is ready. (I actually did most of the map nodes + meta as well. But only while the map was on daily. Meaning a different map each day. Did not feel grindy then. I have must stuff from season 3 fully finished now. Including all home instance nodes and karmic retribution stuff.)

Edit: HoT has content considered harder. And some metas that people like to farm cause they actualyl are f un - which keeps the people there. (I have finished most PoF achievements but still need to go back to HoT to do stuff there later.)

The old core maps have stuff that can be done mostly solo. And some events in orr that are tied to later achievements that bring people back. season 4 maps 2 and 3 brought people back to the old maps. For the Tyrian service medal. And some world bosses that needed to get killed for the golem ascended back item as well.

[ugrakarma.9416]

with huge amount of currencies now, i really dont worry about that..

im completion old achievments, from LS4 im near completing it.. one of them i need grind a bit Thunderhead peak, then now im liking the have a reason to revisiting old maps;.