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TY for the patch


mrauls.6519

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@Ghos.1326 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Speed_of_Shadowshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirsthttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Death%27s_Charge or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Swell or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon_Flesh_Wurm orhttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Walk

"Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger I just tap once or twice and kill them

Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a damn break

Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing absoulutely nothing to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

P.S Really I have no agenda against the class it's mostly the playersbase behind it , after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

or
or
or

"Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger
I just tap once or twice and kill them

Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing
absoulutely nothing
to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

P.S Really I have no agenda against the class
it's mostly the playersbase behind it
, after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

You are talking about scourge but what about the weaknesses? you are acting as if nec is some unbelievable godmode.

Let us not forget the time of godmode beastmode soulbeast which could escape instantly in the past and 1 shot.

It had everything:Mobility dmg sustain. Ele had its strength and weaknesses dagger/Dagger has mobility on it but what about weaver? had pretty good dmg and also what about mirage? I call bs on this man.

MIrage was seriously the most toxic thing ever. I'm tired of people treating nec like its impossibly op when you had builds that could do everything and they can still trade with their illusions they got tons of tools. Sure now they got 1 evade and exaughstion but CMON!!! and what about firebrand? it was so op it was keeping scourge alive.

I'm not saying nec is bad in PVP but cmon man before the nerfs of dmg to pull back un dmg sustain and mobility, nec had a hard time keeping up or even surviving due to the powercreep of sustain and dmg.

Reaper wasn't nearly as mobile as some of the stuff and it got a nerf in the form of the rune we used to literally keep up. Also you can kite reaper. If you can't i call L2P.

You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

Where is the nerf to smoke field?

Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.

Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

what about when nec isn't in shroud? its 8 sec where they waddle around.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

or
or
or

"Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger
I just tap once or twice and kill them

Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing
absoulutely nothing
to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

P.S Really I have no agenda against the class
it's mostly the playersbase behind it
, after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infusing_Terror ..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Strength_of_the_Pack!%22 or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Armor_of_Earth

I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

Where is the nerf to smoke field?

Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens when that role is reserved to eles

Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Silent_Scope + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Meld ...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Quickening_Thirst ......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....they get outplayed

All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

I get so pissed because if I can kill your average ranger with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

And it's not only ranger that I play as I stated hundreds of time already, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said any of that was fine ....I am not some biased kitten :

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56636/balance-discussion-moa-stance-needs-some-changes/p1https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/56638/main-reason-current-ele-should-not-be-buffed#latest

Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

or
or
or

"Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger
I just tap once or twice and kill them

Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing
absoulutely nothing
to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

P.S Really I have no agenda against the class
it's mostly the playersbase behind it
, after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability :
or

I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

Where is the nerf to smoke field?

Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens
when that role is reserved to eles

Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.
+
...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....
they get outplayed

All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

I get so pissed because if I can kill
your average ranger
with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

And it's not only ranger that I play
as I stated hundreds of time already
, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

The whole nerf will just kill the game.

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@"Axl.8924" where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY fucking fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

or
or
or

"Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger
I just tap once or twice and kill them

Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing
absoulutely nothing
to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

P.S Really I have no agenda against the class
it's mostly the playersbase behind it
, after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability :
or

I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

Where is the nerf to smoke field?

Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens
when that role is reserved to eles

Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.
+
...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....
they get outplayed

All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

I get so pissed because if I can kill
your average ranger
with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

And it's not only ranger that I play
as I stated hundreds of time already
, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

The whole nerf will just kill the game.

That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...and I will not accept that because this is something which was added recently to the class.

Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

Like @"Grimjack.8130" stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924 where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY kitten fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

I've seen soulbeast doin 1 shot a while back heard they can still do.

There is a reason why it was getting hit first.

Nec is not completely defenseless, but it can be kited, it has weaknesses its far from as op as people say i get sick of folks saying its op and we do use dodge.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

or
or
or

"Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger
I just tap once or twice and kill them

Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing
absoulutely nothing
to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

P.S Really I have no agenda against the class
it's mostly the playersbase behind it
, after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability :
or

I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

Where is the nerf to smoke field?

Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens
when that role is reserved to eles

Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.
+
...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....
they get outplayed

All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

I get so pissed because if I can kill
your average ranger
with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

And it's not only ranger that I play
as I stated hundreds of time already
, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

The whole nerf will just kill the game.

That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...
and I will not accept that
because this is something which was added recently to the class.

Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

Like @"Grimjack.8130" stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay
it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness
but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

I kinda wish they would lower the cd on lightning flash and the other teleport for eles. Since they are squishy unlike nec they depend on getting away.

Nec is like it is on mobility because its super tanky and it would be broken if it had mobility like thief, but ele kinda is hard to survive if they don't have a lotta mobility and stuff to add sustain to protect.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924 where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY kitten fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

I've seen soulbeast doin 1 shot a while back heard they can still do.

There is a reason why it was getting hit first.

Nec is not completely defenseless, but it can be kited, it has weaknesses its far from as op as people say i get sick of folks saying its op and we do use dodge.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

or
or
or

"Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger
I just tap once or twice and kill them

Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing
absoulutely nothing
to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

P.S Really I have no agenda against the class
it's mostly the playersbase behind it
, after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability :
or

I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

Where is the nerf to smoke field?

Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens
when that role is reserved to eles

Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.
+
...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....
they get outplayed

All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

I get so pissed because if I can kill
your average ranger
with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

And it's not only ranger that I play
as I stated hundreds of time already
, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

The whole nerf will just kill the game.

That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...
and I will not accept that
because this is something which was added recently to the class.

Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

Like @"Grimjack.8130" stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay
it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness
but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

I kinda wish they would lower the cd on lightning flash and the other teleport for eles. Since they are squishy unlike nec they depend on getting away.

Nec is like it is on mobility because its super tanky and it would be broken if it had mobility like thief, but ele kinda is hard to survive if they don't have a lotta mobility and stuff to add sustain to protect.

It's not just the mobility which is lacking....even if you try to set up combos, you have to deal with absurd after cast and cast times on sword if using a weaver.-staff ele is just so kitten.....skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eruption are so trash in this time and age of the game, but you also have skills like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dragon%27s_Tooth

People are using ele like a wannabe thief right now...minus the stealth and mobility....it's BS, this is a design issue not a numbers problem. I made a thread before weaver got released where I pleaded with Anet to avoid adding another melee weapon to ele after warhorn...but they went and added another melee weapon to the class...so people are forced to invest in tankiness to stay alive and Anet goes and starts the nerfing ....right on schedule.

I gave up on the class, it's really not worth the stress, transferred everything on the necro and I don't regret it....really a shame after the time and effort spent on ele

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924 where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY kitten fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

I've seen soulbeast doin 1 shot a while back heard they can still do.

There is a reason why it was getting hit first.

Nec is not completely defenseless, but it can be kited, it has weaknesses its far from as op as people say i get sick of folks saying its op and we do use dodge.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

or
or
or

"Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger
I just tap once or twice and kill them

Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing
absoulutely nothing
to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

P.S Really I have no agenda against the class
it's mostly the playersbase behind it
, after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability :
or

I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

Where is the nerf to smoke field?

Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens
when that role is reserved to eles

Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.
+
...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....
they get outplayed

All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

I get so pissed because if I can kill
your average ranger
with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

And it's not only ranger that I play
as I stated hundreds of time already
, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

The whole nerf will just kill the game.

That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...
and I will not accept that
because this is something which was added recently to the class.

Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

Like @"Grimjack.8130" stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay
it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness
but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

I kinda wish they would lower the cd on lightning flash and the other teleport for eles. Since they are squishy unlike nec they depend on getting away.

Nec is like it is on mobility because its super tanky and it would be broken if it had mobility like thief, but ele kinda is hard to survive if they don't have a lotta mobility and stuff to add sustain to protect.

It's not just the mobility which is lacking....even if you try to set up combos, you have to deal with absurd after cast and cast times on sword if using a weaver.-staff ele is just so kitten.....skills like
are so trash in this time and age of the game, but you also have skills like

People are using ele like a wannabe thief right now...minus the stealth and mobility....it's BS, this is a design issue not a numbers problem. I made a thread before weaver got released where I pleaded with Anet to avoid adding another melee weapon to ele after warhorn...but they went and added another melee weapon to the class...so people are forced to invest in tankiness to stay alive and Anet goes and starts the nerfing ....right on schedule.

I gave up on the class, it's really not worth the stress, transferred everything on the necro and I don't regret it....really a shame after the time and effort spent on ele

Well there are casts and sorta channel effects buncha weird stuff combined in melee, which for a class that is as squishy as ele is like jumping into a lion pit, you just know its going to go wrong.

I always did notice something odd about ele, because in pve there isn't the same issues.

When i'm using D/D for instance, which is highly risky, its less a issue due to knowing that i can just use my mobility to escape. It just seems antithetical to use melee in SPVP on ele.

I think also some delay might be that you need to literally place the tooth over the area but am i misunderstanding? i'm no master of ele by any means, i just play cause i love the class.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924 where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY kitten fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

I've seen soulbeast doin 1 shot a while back heard they can still do.

There is a reason why it was getting hit first.

Nec is not completely defenseless, but it can be kited, it has weaknesses its far from as op as people say i get sick of folks saying its op and we do use dodge.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

or
or
or

"Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger
I just tap once or twice and kill them

Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing
absoulutely nothing
to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

P.S Really I have no agenda against the class
it's mostly the playersbase behind it
, after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability :
or

I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

Where is the nerf to smoke field?

Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens
when that role is reserved to eles

Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.
+
...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....
they get outplayed

All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

I get so pissed because if I can kill
your average ranger
with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

And it's not only ranger that I play
as I stated hundreds of time already
, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

The whole nerf will just kill the game.

That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...
and I will not accept that
because this is something which was added recently to the class.

Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

Like @"Grimjack.8130" stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay
it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness
but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

I kinda wish they would lower the cd on lightning flash and the other teleport for eles. Since they are squishy unlike nec they depend on getting away.

Nec is like it is on mobility because its super tanky and it would be broken if it had mobility like thief, but ele kinda is hard to survive if they don't have a lotta mobility and stuff to add sustain to protect.

It's not just the mobility which is lacking....even if you try to set up combos, you have to deal with absurd after cast and cast times on sword if using a weaver.-staff ele is just so kitten.....skills like
are so trash in this time and age of the game, but you also have skills like

People are using ele like a wannabe thief right now...minus the stealth and mobility....it's BS, this is a design issue not a numbers problem. I made a thread before weaver got released where I pleaded with Anet to avoid adding another melee weapon to ele after warhorn...but they went and added another melee weapon to the class...so people are forced to invest in tankiness to stay alive and Anet goes and starts the nerfing ....right on schedule.

I gave up on the class, it's really not worth the stress, transferred everything on the necro and I don't regret it....really a shame after the time and effort spent on ele

Well there are casts and sorta channel effects buncha weird stuff combined in melee, which for a class that is as squishy as ele is like jumping into a lion pit, you just know its going to go wrong.

I always did notice something odd about ele, because in pve there isn't the same issues.

When i'm using D/D for instance, which is highly risky, its less a issue due to knowing that i can just use my mobility to escape. It just seems antithetical to use melee in SPVP on ele.

I think also some delay might be that you need to literally place the tooth over the area but am i misunderstanding? i'm no master of ele by any means, i just play cause i love the class.

I have no hope for the class ...simply putting, no balance dev actually mains it in game, if you don't actually play actively and simply rely on "feedback" from different sources...there is no hope for any significant positive change....just look how fast they are in applying 50%+ nerfs on utilities and dmg...following the..."feedback" while you have skills on ele which have not be touched since launch :

Frozen gust - Flamewall - Warhorn etc etc etc

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924 where is the " reaper is countered by CC " coming from? they have usually 3 ways to remove CC and also stability.And defense-wise. Full shroud reaper can eat every single skill from my "sic em soulbeast " and not even drop out of shroud.Im not saying I am defenseless but neither is reaper. In reality you wont get to stun reaper in 1v1, EVER. Since they have too many ways to remove the CC.In the end, necro players are spoiled by their face-tank shroud, and dont even try to use their 2 dodges properly. Use those 2 dodges on CC, get stab, then use 3 stun-breaks and nothing can really lock you down. Mobility? Reapers are REALLY kitten fast, with speed runes they are above most classes speed wise, they can match mesmer/ranger for sure. and outpace guardians, elementalists.Lich form is still bull, whenever you make a build you need to have a built-in get out of jail free card against this skill. It hits for over 7k.

I've seen soulbeast doin 1 shot a while back heard they can still do.

There is a reason why it was getting hit first.

Nec is not completely defenseless, but it can be kited, it has weaknesses its far from as op as people say i get sick of folks saying its op and we do use dodge.

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:The main issue I see with the patch is it's going to be a huge gift to necro players. Most other builds got a noticeable shave where problems actually existed, while necros got a completely random nerf that does not effect the class in any meaningful way.

**Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.Putrid Explosion: Reduced the power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.8 in PvP only.Death Nova: Reduced the power coefficient of the Poison Nova explosion from 0.75 to 0.6 in PvP only.

This is so far what we got.

Yes, and those changes are hilariously insignificant.

There is more prob to come. Hopefully they don-t take bad advice and gut the class. Reaper needs to hit really hard since its so slow and vulnerable to ccs and lich form needs to just be deleted and power added to the undeath. I-d rather not have a 150 sec cd slow travel time and 7k dmg and 150 sec cd.

Eh I don't agree with this at all. A stupid reaper will blow his defensive CDs to protect against CC instantly, but trust me reaper is fine against CC unless the enemy class has more than 3 that can be used in rapid succession. Also, reaper is....not really slow. Shroud 2 is only on a....8s? 10s? cd and it covers a lot of ground, also destroys projectiles (so projectile related CC is useless against it) and does a nice sizable chunk of damage. As well, Reapers in general have access to a lot of chill, which is one of the strongest conditions in the game (does what cripple does while ALSO slows down the time ticking of cooldowns). To top it off (kinda), their chill lasts a fair amount of time so they don't have to use it back to back. Then lets also add on the auto damage it has per hit (3k+) as well as a trait that, if i'm not mistaken, grants them permanent quickness so long as they're in Shroud.

EDIT: Sorry, Death's charge has a 6s cd.DOUBLE EDIT: This, also, is using Marauder's amulet and not berserker, as well as not using spite and instead running the build that uses Blood Magic/Soul Reaping/Reaper

It has its downsides.

If he blows his skills in hte wrong moment thats his own fault but what about soulbeast sic em with mobility combined with dmg and sustain? There are some classes with far more mobility and nec is more like guardian levels of mobility, which is very slow. Ever wonder why nec take runes for swiftness? its because they are so slow, its hard to keep up.

Chill is a cc not mobility and yes nec has some good cc, because if they didn't they wouldn't be able to close gaps.

Real massive mobility is like thief and rev who can teleport willy nilly and reset. Nec cannot do that for instance.

Chill is strong but some classes can still burst pretty hard. There is a reason reaper was less successfull in the past: Damage was literally too high for every class combined with mobility, which is why nec life was hard, a important history lesson for ANET that nec are more successful now because of the dmg nerfs.

Also it wouldn't be scary if reaper did no damage.

or
or
or

"Necro is as slow than guardian..no slower"

This is more mobility than elementalist...mesmer unless these two use Lightning flash+Ride the lightning and mesmer with Blink+Jaunt to run away; continuing ; this is more mobility than guardian by far and against a ranger specced for mobility with dunno..soulbeast GS+bird swoop, on a flat panel a scourge for example can use wurm/sand_swell + speed of shadows under the effects of runes of speed and easily catch up with the ranger without even trying...average ranger that's it but again those are not recognised as people are just pissed at how they fall to simplistic tactics employed by below average players to start with....let alone by an experienced player on ranger

With only 40 hrs on necro, I am already duelling people that would require much more effort if using some other class...against typical ranger
I just tap once or twice and kill them

Let's stop here but yeah...the bias on this forum is like painfully obvious ...."as slow as guardian"...give me a kitten break

Poor ele...with those unjustified low starting stats...and then overbuffed necro, it was an easy choice after years of struggle...dropped the first for the latter, there is nothing
absoulutely nothing
to justify current state of ele if I start using a necro, which is far stronger than what the biased criers on the forum would let you believe ...far stronger and for a fraction of the effort

P.S Really I have no agenda against the class
it's mostly the playersbase behind it
, after trying "seriously" the class myself I just want necro mains to finally close the "water gates" and stop the wolf's tears...it's pathetic at this point

You need to run away and CC em and stun em. They have limited stab.

..limited stab on a 21s CD... instead this is limited stability :
or

I get annoyed when ranger mains who can go sickem and 1 shot folks in soulbeast while having enough mobility to escape complain about reapers.

Where is the nerf to smoke field?

Where is the nerf to shroud generation? Where is the nerf to blood and death lines? I have already said that necro main must stop acting like they are some defenseless kittens
when that role is reserved to eles

Soulbeast was literally like deadeye doing same kinda thing with similar levels of mobility but more sustain.
+
...... I don't think you have ever played against any half decent thief using DE to its full potential

Also those have cds and quickening thirst is on dagger.

......the movement speed buffs work regardless of you having a dagger, you just need to be above 75% HP....which is eazy on a core necro especially

Soulbeast here..soulbeast there...where are all these threatening soulbeast killing everything in sight with their mighty sic'em build? A new player reading this forum would think that this magical beast Soulbeast dominates PvP by killing everything and that ranked matches are like 2-3 soulbeast per match.....where actually the opposite happens when ranked full of builds like this :

But this is the present not the past as you talk about rangers like it's still 2018 : Moa Stance got hard nerfed - Unblockable trait removed - Sic'em dmg nerfed( regardless of what other says..the facts are what count) - Pet swap removed and overall sustain in PvP nerfed by over 66% from protection uptime to regen and stability uptime ( Dokyak stance from 30 to 60s CD), maybe it'd be time for GW2 players to admit that 80% of the times they lose....
they get outplayed

All I complained about necro was the Lich auto dmg and Reaper's onslaught dmg modifiers, than I even removed that complain and merely wish for the Lich auto dmg to be reduced, they can move the dmg to other skills I wouldn't care, not once I asked for necro to be hardnerfed or removed from existence out of spite...on the contrary of people getting sniped by Timmy who is hiding with his bow due to their own carelessness.

I get so pissed because if I can kill
your average ranger
with a class I merely played "seriously" for 40 hrs then I ask myself what all the fuss is about in reality, this goes for every other class : go play the class you whine about against DECENT players and then come back here. I went and played necro, recognized its strengths and weaknesses, nobody said that necro is invincible but it's nowhere close to weak as many would like you to believe on the other hand, ranger is nowhere as overwhelming as criers would like you to believe at least in PvP.

And it's not only ranger that I play
as I stated hundreds of time already
, I spent thousand of hrs on ele, guardian and warrior...I have been since launch, did you try to play mesmer vs decent players? Yeah the staff ambush was kitten , as boonbeast was and not once I said ....I am not some biased kitten :

Made similar threads about druids, fire core eles, guardian, warriors...etc etc....I don't have any agenda, I want people to admit that every defeat is not due to some OP build they face, most times they get outplayed

I've played ranger core with axe/axe might not be master of it but enough to know sustain tools.

I'm just saying its kinda biased when rangers were capable of doing those kinda things.

As for shroud regen and blood n all: I'd like to see numbers first by nec experts who know more than i.

I dislike lich form because its unhealthy for nec since its limited use and it creates a lot of drama with very high dmg and slow projectiles, and i'd prefer if dmg was elsewhere.

As for reaper shroud degen: I dunno if thats a good idea considering that would hurt sustain and dmg at the same time. I know reaper is very tanky and can hit real hard, but its already got a 7 sec cd or was it 8? i forget and it can be degened by kiting.

Also even though eles have weaknesses they have their strengths look at weavers man, they were some of the better successful builds for SPVP for roaming, more so than core and tempest.

What you mean to say is they are squishy and are in melee mode, which is kinda dumb considering they are such squishy class.

Also this problem of nec folks are having is newer considering it used to be far less noticed before dmg nerfs and i'm worrying about over nerfing considering core is the one known more for being tankier right now. I fear over nerfing because nec has suffered the brunt force for years, which is why fellow nec are defensive.

Can't we instead improve upon first core eles which have issues with survival first and mes? mes and thieves used to counter nec pretty hard due to mobility and their illusions and CC and burst.

I've heard from some say nec is pretty balanced, and it was pretty well balanced by the fact that it had its weaknesses and its strengths but if you wittle down its strengths too much and all you got is weaknesses, you end up with a class with its fingers filed to the bone and kneecap it.

I've seen thief players the best ones on video i've seen sindrener play who is pretty well famous i've asked him to even teach me some stuff on thief. I've seen deadeye what it can do and i've seen videos of soulbeast in WVW using merge form and using its ability in the past to 1 shot peeps with GS and run away.

I've seen people in the ranger subforum talk about LB2 and i've defended ranger by saying things like: Its counterable, so i know some stuff about ranger too.

The point is: Yes nec has stuff to escape, but there are still classes faster than them out there and those stuff some have cds.

Spectral walk is 30 sec it says and it does have stab but so what? wurm can be killed.

Nec literally waddles around if you have no spectral walk and wurm.

Because a class is doin well don't mean you should nerf the one thats doing good because there are classes doing bad.

The whole nerf will just kill the game.

That's why all my nerf threads are targeted at specific traits/utilities and not the whole class/spec like many other folks do which ends up draining the game of its population. So far it seems @CMC is balancing following suggestions from MAT players, while not ideal it's still much better than listening to the forum crowd...ideally there would be no official forum like it was for GW1.

Professions should be balanced around the average skill level but still given the tools to excel when mastered in their own right, so far this seems to be true for most professions but others like elementalist....add an unnecessary level of complexity for the sake of it , you don't get rewarded for overcoming that complexity, you just get to perfom as other professions used at average level...
and I will not accept that
because this is something which was added recently to the class.

Before average players could run d/d cele and masters of the class could use FA ele...everybody was happy but now.....after 7k hrs Anet expects me, while playing ele, to put great effort beating even average players on other professions ...I say screw that! I won't!

Like @"Grimjack.8130" stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

This is not balancing..this is BS number crunching : they just increase CD till people drop skills/elites or utilities from their gameplay , when something is deemed too strong for healthy gameplay
it should be changed in functionality while maintaining usefulness
but that's ofc too hard..so they take the lazy way out...always.

Take : Obsidian flesh , from 30s CD to 40s CD then to channel then to 60s CD on a weapon skill...what the actual......maybe you could have changed the functionality to something like : "redirect next fatal dmg to its source - 30s CD" .

This overnerfing happens because this playerbase is afraid of challenges and so they will demand the removal of any challenge and when there is nothing else that challenges them....nerfs will knock at their door too...overnerfing and the death of the game

I kinda wish they would lower the cd on lightning flash and the other teleport for eles. Since they are squishy unlike nec they depend on getting away.

Nec is like it is on mobility because its super tanky and it would be broken if it had mobility like thief, but ele kinda is hard to survive if they don't have a lotta mobility and stuff to add sustain to protect.

It's not just the mobility which is lacking....even if you try to set up combos, you have to deal with absurd after cast and cast times on sword if using a weaver.-staff ele is just so kitten.....skills like
are so trash in this time and age of the game, but you also have skills like

People are using ele like a wannabe thief right now...minus the stealth and mobility....it's BS, this is a design issue not a numbers problem. I made a thread before weaver got released where I pleaded with Anet to avoid adding another melee weapon to ele after warhorn...but they went and added another melee weapon to the class...so people are forced to invest in tankiness to stay alive and Anet goes and starts the nerfing ....right on schedule.

I gave up on the class, it's really not worth the stress, transferred everything on the necro and I don't regret it....really a shame after the time and effort spent on ele

Well there are casts and sorta channel effects buncha weird stuff combined in melee, which for a class that is as squishy as ele is like jumping into a lion pit, you just know its going to go wrong.

I always did notice something odd about ele, because in pve there isn't the same issues.

When i'm using D/D for instance, which is highly risky, its less a issue due to knowing that i can just use my mobility to escape. It just seems antithetical to use melee in SPVP on ele.

I think also some delay might be that you need to literally place the tooth over the area but am i misunderstanding? i'm no master of ele by any means, i just play cause i love the class.

I have no hope for the class ...simply putting, no balance dev actually mains it in game, if you don't actually play actively and simply rely on "feedback" from different sources...there is no hope for any significant positive change....just look how fast they are in applying 50%+ nerfs on utilities and dmg...following the..."feedback" while you have skills on ele which have not be touched since launch :

Frozen gust - Flamewall - Warhorn etc etc etc

I think i finally understand what you mean by aftercast. You mean something akin to lightning whip, and how dragon tooth hovers above a persons head before falling into the floor?

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@Axl.8924after cast is when you finish casting an ability, and after it is finish you are still unable to take actions.mesmers sword auto-attack comes to mind, where the strike comes REALLY fast, and then you have ~0,2s delay before you can do anything.After-casts can be removed by switching weapon-sets for example, but realistically they usually just make things clunky

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924after cast is when you finish casting an ability, and after it is finish you are still unable to take actions.mesmers sword auto-attack comes to mind, where the strike comes REALLY fast, and then you have ~0,2s delay before you can do anything.After-casts can be removed by switching weapon-sets for example, but realistically they usually just make things clunky

Thats kinda ridiculous why haven-t they fixed it yet? guess they got a lot of other issues and strained for time. They really need 1 dev per class who really plays.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924after cast is when you finish casting an ability, and after it is finish you are still unable to take actions.mesmers sword auto-attack comes to mind, where the strike comes REALLY fast, and then you have ~0,2s delay before you can do anything.After-casts can be removed by switching weapon-sets for example, but realistically they usually just make things clunky

Thats kinda ridiculous why haven-t they fixed it yet? guess they got a lot of other issues and strained for time. They really need 1 dev per class who really plays.

Im fairly sure its intended. Kind off like all those auto-attack chains that say cast time 1/4s or 1/2s but have much longer cast times. Shrug.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924after cast is when you finish casting an ability, and after it is finish you are still unable to take actions.mesmers sword auto-attack comes to mind, where the strike comes REALLY fast, and then you have ~0,2s delay before you can do anything.After-casts can be removed by switching weapon-sets for example, but realistically they usually just make things clunky

Thats kinda ridiculous why haven-t they fixed it yet? guess they got a lot of other issues and strained for time. They really need 1 dev per class who really plays.

and btw, most if not all skills have after-casts. Some just have it super long so its VERY noticable and annoying.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Axl.8924after cast is when you finish casting an ability, and after it is finish you are still unable to take actions.mesmers sword auto-attack comes to mind, where the strike comes REALLY fast, and then you have ~0,2s delay before you can do anything.After-casts can be removed by switching weapon-sets for example, but realistically they usually just make things clunky

Thats kinda ridiculous why haven-t they fixed it yet? guess they got a lot of other issues and strained for time. They really need 1 dev per class who really plays.

and btw, most if not all skills have after-casts. Some just have it super long so its VERY noticable and annoying.

That kinda makes sense, as it would add counterplay.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:Like @"Grimjack.8130" stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Like @"Grimjack.8130" stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

I mean, at times. It works 2 ways, Ele is very rotationally based so if you just copied what a good Ele did alot you'd be 80% of the way there already. Its very easy to just Go from Fire Earth to Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Fire, Fire, Air, Earth, Water, etc etc etc Very very very easy to do.

But also its very hard to set up your Weave Self with Earth Shield CCs, with your Gale all of which have hugely different recharges, with enough damage to force defensives prior to all this, while preventing your gameplan from being screwed up and dodging important skills etc.

Weaver still busted though, all it takes is determined nonskillcapped players to make it work. No version of the 4 best Weaver builds is "bad" to be honest.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Like @"Grimjack.8130" stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

weaver has been used effectively in the 3 most recent mATs. anyone who says weaver is bad/useless is spouting nonsense

i play FA and fire weaver as my off class and i can assure u neither of them require u to "look 30s into the future". on FA especially, u have instant access to your burst. 0 clairvoyance required

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@Hogwarts Zebra.8597 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Like @"Grimjack.8130" stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

weaver has been used effectively in the 3 most recent mATs. anyone who says weaver is bad/useless is spouting nonsense

i play FA and fire weaver as my off class and i can assure u neither of them require u to "look 30s into the future". on FA especially, u have instant access to your burst. 0 clairvoyance required

well ur also not the best ele in the game and ur also not playing sword lr or LR at all apparently so player skill issue

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@Grimjack.8130 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:Like @Grimjack.8130 stated : "you need to look 30s in the future to win on weaver".......like hell I would while somebody else is having similar or better results by pressing 2-3 buttons off CD !

this is partly cuz how weaver is designed: you get locked out of 3rd weapon skills and quick attune swaps. i tried bringing this up on ele forums but most everyone was pretty upset by this pov.

I mean, at times. It works 2 ways, Ele is very rotationally based so if you just copied what a good Ele did alot you'd be 80% of the way there already. Its very easy to just Go from Fire Earth to Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Fire, Fire, Air, Earth, Water, etc etc etc Very very very easy to do.

But also its very hard to set up your Weave Self with Earth Shield CCs, with your Gale all of which have hugely different recharges, with enough damage to force defensives prior to all this, while preventing your gameplan from being screwed up and dodging important skills etc.

Weaver still busted though, all it takes is determined nonskillcapped players to make it work. No version of the 4 best Weaver builds is "bad" to be honest.

What you're saying doesn't detract anything from what I stated before where I mention core ele especially....core ele is close to trash tier...weaver being busted is the least of the worries

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