How would you redesign the ranger?

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Lonami.2987 nope. I stopped working on it due to IRL occupation and new project revolving arround Gw2 tabletop.

But i really like your suggestions. Solid ideas, lots of streamlining and way easier to function with E-specs.

[The Boz.2038]

Pets absolutely need to be crunched up into the five Soulbeast archetypes. Within an archetype, all pets are identical; they're just skins for you to pick, with the same stats, skills, Soulbeast boosts, etc. Also, Legendary Pets! Yay!I dislike how the Druid is designed about team content, and is really, truly painful to play outside it. Any redisign of it is welcome.

[JorneMormel.9850]

Start by improving the pet mechanic. Specifically:

F1 Attack/(Toggle)HeelandF3 Move To (Ground targeted)

It would make pet controls more intuitive and allow the option to path pets out of harm's way, without requiring too many button presses and overcoming the fact that Guard/Avoid Combat cannot be hotkeyed, which would be a welcome QoL update if it did.

Axe (Mostly OH #4)Dagger (MH lacks cleave)Short Bow (Lacks damage potential on flanking which is hard enough to pull off in any competitive environment, and is still outclassed in PvE.)StaffSword

All need love. So does Druid and I wish pets were an optional mechanic for them, too. Stowing a pet for skill effects and attribute increases would even improve core.

And give Soulbeast the second pet back, but instead design the drawback that your pet appears with the same hitpoints as it had before when leaving Beastmode, and when you switch into Beastmode, if your pet's health % is lower than yours, lose health equal to 50% of the difference.Losing the second pet lowered the skill ceiling by so much, it's not even funny.

[kharmin.7683]

@The Boz.2038 said:I dislike how the Druid is designed about team content, and is really, truly painful to play outside it. Any redisign of it is welcome.Agreed. I think that pretty much all of the elite specs released at that time were group-oriented as Raids were to be a thing.

[Lonami.2987]

@Lonami.2987 said:It's been quite a while. Going for a soft redesign this time:

---

Mechanic bar redesign

An image is worth a thousand words, but just in case:

• F1: Swap Pets (formerly at F4, second pet is now displayed on screen).
• F2: Attack My Target (formerly at F1).
• F3: Beast skill #1 (formerly at F2).
• F4: Return to Me (formerly at F3).
• F5: Beast skill #2 (new skill).
• Stow Pet / Activate Pet (no hotkey on default, can be assigned one manually).
• Guard / Avoid Combat (no hotkey on default, can be assigned one manually).

---

Changes to the pet mechanic

Pets are the central part of the ranger's playstyle, but they have quite a few problems:

• There's way too many pets, 55 in total. Pets are divided in 18 families, and members of the same families are almost identical.
• Pet skins are connected to specific beast skills, and you can't choose their skins freely. There's dozen of unavailable pet skins in the game as well.
• Pets aren't very engaging, having only one beast skill rangers can activate manually.

And this is my take on how to solve those issues:

• Unify beast skills and take the amount of pets down to 18, one per family. Redistribute archetypes across the new pets.
• Transform the different pet models into cosmetic skins you can equip freely. Transform the missing NPC models into pet skins as well.
• Make beast skills more useful, and give each pet a second beast skill.

---

Elite specialization mechanics and tradeoffs

The addition of a second beast skill changes the tradeoff situation, letting us take a new approach. This is what we have now:

• Druid: Gain Celestial Avatar, but your pet's attributes are weaker. Transform into a Celestial Avatar to gain alternate weapon skills.
• Soulbeast: Gain Beastmode, but you cannot swap pets in combat. Activate Beastmode to gain alternate mechanic skills.

And this would be the new version:

• Druid: Gain Celestial Avatar instead of Beast skill #2. Transform into a Celestial Avatar to gain alternate weapon skills and an alternate Beast skill #1.
• Soulbeast: Gain Beastmode instead of Beast skill #2. Activate Beastmode to gain alternate mechanic skills.

---

Other changes

Few extra notes worth mentioning:

• Activating Celestial Avatar will change your pet's appearance as well, turning it into an astral creature. Internal pet skills mechanics and attributes won't be affected by this transformation.
• Swapping pets is now possible while Beastmode is on. Beastmode's visual effect will change its color depending on the active archetype.
• Replace off-hand dagger with off-hand sword. Soulbeasts now gain the ability to wield daggers in both hands. Daggers will gain alternate weapon skills upon activation of Beastmode.
• Replace shortbow with rifle. Rename the Longbow weapon type back into just Bow. Remove the Shortbow weapon type, and integrate the orphaned weapons and skins into the Bow. More on weapon type changes here.

---

That's it, thanks for reading!

Few elite specialization ideas, based on the previous mechanic bar redesign:

---

---

Elite specialization ideas

• Bloodhound: Gain Pet Focus instead of Pet Swap. Both pets are deployed in combat simultaneously, pet focus letting you command one pet at a time. Beast skill #2 will be tied to the secondary pet.
• Waywatcher: Gain Wild Flash instead of Beast skill #2, and Wild Vault instead of dodge rolling. Use Wild Flash to instantly swap positions with your pet. Wild Strike skills become available for a short time right after using Wild Flash.
• Treesinger: Gain Hatchlings instead of Pets. Hatchlings are smaller versions of your own pets, weaker individually, but stronger in numbers.

Not getting into other details, only the mechanics.

@InsaneQR.7412 said:@Lonami.2987 nope. I stopped working on it due to IRL occupation and new project revolving arround Gw2 tabletop.

But i really like your suggestions. Solid ideas, lots of streamlining and way easier to function with E-specs.

Glad you liked them. I would love to do something like this for every other profession, but I don't know if I'll ever get to it lol.

@JorneMormel.9850 said:Start by improving the pet mechanic. Specifically:

F1 Attack/(Toggle)HeelandF3 Move To (Ground targeted)

It would make pet controls more intuitive and allow the option to path pets out of harm's way, without requiring too many button presses and overcoming the fact that Guard/Avoid Combat cannot be hotkeyed, which would be a welcome QoL update if it did.

Axe (Mostly OH #4)Dagger (MH lacks cleave)Short Bow (Lacks damage potential on flanking which is hard enough to pull off in any competitive environment, and is still outclassed in PvE.)StaffSword

All need love. So does Druid and I wish pets were an optional mechanic for them, too. Stowing a pet for skill effects and attribute increases would even improve core.

And give Soulbeast the second pet back, but instead design the drawback that your pet appears with the same hitpoints as it had before when leaving Beastmode, and when you switch into Beastmode, if your pet's health % is lower than yours, lose health equal to 50% of the difference.Losing the second pet lowered the skill ceiling by so much, it's not even funny.

I think the best approach is to make pets more vulnerable, but faster to swap as well. Make pet rotation faster, kinda like elementalist attunements and revenant legends.

After all, the less time they stay around, the fewer problems the AI will give.

@The Boz.2038 said:Pets absolutely need to be crunched up into the five Soulbeast archetypes. Within an archetype, all pets are identical; they're just skins for you to pick, with the same stats, skills, Soulbeast boosts, etc. Also, Legendary Pets! Yay!I dislike how the Druid is designed about team content, and is really, truly painful to play outside it. Any redisign of it is welcome.

Indeed, they definitely need to update traits to make solo druid viable.

[The Boz.2038]

It really doesn't take much to make one trait at each level to be selfish and maybe even somewhat offensive.

[KeyOrion.9506]

How would I redesign ranger. Go Rambo with exploding tipped arrows.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Stahp.

Ranger doesn't need any overhauls or redesigns.

The only thing Ranger needs fixed is removing the small damage proc off Lightning Reflexes for several reasons.

[medivh.4725]

Some feedbacks on the ranger & soulbeast ...

1. The ranger/sb has been my most underused class. My view is the ranger need more seperation from sb. Consider only core ranger can pet chase down a foe, while soulbeast is always merged with a select beast. Along that line, the 2 needs to feel more different.
2. Ranger axe 1 throw effects are boring. Perhaps enhance with a little special effect or animation.
3. Ranger need 'wildlife instinct' the pet needs to protect owner on automatic and must not idle beside the ranger when ranger gets attacked. This happened and prompt me to write in. My ranger got attacked and pet just sit still beside not doing anything. This should be automatic, a pet defend its owner. Pls improve pet A.I. when to do what.
4. Still on 'animal/ wildlife instinct' the pet should be put on auto attacks on any close by threats. It is tiresome to click and click to send pet into attack and it came back, not knowing how to attack the enemy just next to it. 
5. Doesn't a ranger hunt with poisoned arrows. I have to manual insert stacks of poison to my bow right now. Instead adjust bow skills to inbed with poison, and bleeding. Thats how a ranger hunt in the wild I guess? 

Edited May 11, 2021 by medivh.4725

[VocalThought.9835]

On 3/5/2021 at 6:27 PM, KeyOrion.9506 said:

How would I redesign ranger. Go Rambo with exploding tipped arrows.

That sounds more like using Warrior with a long bow. You been playing the wrong profession the whole time.  😆

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I'd definitely redesign druid and make if far more supportive and shave ots offensive capabilities, remove the seed trait as well.

Slb is fine as is, I would just return pet swap in combat, removing it was a bad choice and just further dumbed down the classes skill ceiling.

Core is mostly fine, id look at improving pet ai and improve some of their useless skills while removing all pet passive hard cc's.

[KeyOrion.9506]

On 5/10/2021 at 10:10 PM, VocalThought.9835 said:

That sounds more like using Warrior with a long bow. You been playing the wrong profession the whole time.  😆

Actually in Guildwars 1, Ranger's had Glass Arrow, the idea was similar.  I miss it.  In Guildwars 2, we have Barrage, but it is super weak, doesn't work on players that have permastab, and if your in wvw, it roots you down, which allows the enemy team to run your butt over.  If you have 3 Rangers with Barrage it can melt most simple siege and what not, and some enemies who don't have quickness of any sort or permaboons.  We have the ability to trait up to shoot three 5 targets.  But only if those 5 targets are all standing right behind each other, and in open field, against a large group that's pretty much useless.  Now, exploding tipped Rambo Arrows....where you hit a target and it explodes, and then you got shrapnel hitting other nearby targets...I could go for that.  "Well then you have the sigil that causes flameburst...." which i've found is nearly competely useless unless your looking for a target that is Stealthed.   Give me exploding arrows!  I want Damage, not gimmicks.

Edited May 19, 2021 by KeyOrion.9506

[WeWantWaffles.2873]

I really don't like how the soulbeast plays. It's a must-have for damage builds, and ..

- It forces you to pick a pet based on function rather than style (I -love- my pet, I don't want a spider if I'm a dog person!)

- It gets rid of your friend, instead of empowering the relationship ranger has with their friend.

 

I also don't enjoy pet swapping mechanics. I'm not running a zoo, I'm supposed to be an adventurer with a pet pal.

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

Just bring back the pet swap in combat 🙂 .

This will be enough to start redesign for Ranger. 

[anduriell.6280]

14 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

Just bring back the pet swap in combat 🙂 .

This will be enough to start redesign for Ranger. 

You are talking about Soulbeast right? Ranger still got the pet swap. 

 

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

7 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

You are talking about Soulbeast right? Ranger still got the pet swap. 

 

Ofc, I am talking about Soulbeast.

[KeyOrion.9506]

Tell the truth.  The whole "Vulnerability" condi we have for rapidfire, could use some improvement.  "% amount of damage actually caused to enemy...." It's absolutely useless.  I hit up to 10 stacks of that on an enemy with rapidfire...and it does nothing, absolutely nothing.  And when I say nothing, i'm not seeing bigger numbers in the damage department, especially when it's on a player that's tanked.  And if their built for tank, then I don't see + extra % damage to no one.  I stack a simple single condi on enemy, and it does nothing.  It's the most worthless condi I have, and it's the only condi that I can just rake into a target, and i don't see it doing anything extra beyond the damage I do.  I'm going to say for the last 5 years, I've been supremely unhappy with it.  I've kept my mouth shut about it, but here I am.  Tell me there's a single ranger even happy with that particular condition?  That is one condition that needs severe rework.  % dmg should be higher against those that have a higher toughness score, because those tanky builds, it's a worthless condition.

Edited May 27, 2021 by KeyOrion.9506
Frustrated about how my favorite class is dealt with by community and GM's.

[Puck.3697]

Tbh overall I like ranger and its elite speccs. I enjoy the fact Soulbeast offers a players gameplay without a pet (AI is very unreliable) 

 

I think if I was going to put some things I don't like I think it'd mostly be

 

Which would be I'd like to see longbow get changed up abit. I find it quite bland overall but maybe that's personal opinon. 

 

 

 

 

[Thornwolf.9721]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQZOPQnFnxA&loop=0

Something like the white lion from warhammer online, with different pets of course so it could be a melee beastmaster. Id call it the beastmaster of course, and then make soul-beast the "ranger" spec where you loose the pet entirely and simply gain the ability to range effectively. The reason ranger gets complaints is the same reason ALL ranged pet classes get it, because its hard to reach but if you make it melee based to start it becomes more of a skill based class in the populace's eyes.

Plus this means rather then pet swap we just get a uber pet, comparable to us who is basically our other half and between the two of us we can do effective damage and gameplay. Where as now the pet has been nerfed to death and left to rot, the unfortunate fact is the only reason I play ranger is for the nature theme/the pet. Otherwise Id likely not touch it, because I personally prefer shapeshifting into a big monster (Wow's bear druid) and going ham on things (or the cat) which I wish this game would do something like that.... would be cool.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Nothing on Ranger needs to be redesigned at all. It's actually one of the top 3 best designed classes in terms of mechanics & sheer viability with its options provided.

 

If anything, it's other classes that are too strong, that need to be balanced back down around classes like Ranger, Warrior, Thief, that actually have good solid mechanical designs that shouldn't be changed at all.

[Substance E.4852]

Either get rid of the pet entirely or reduce it to a visual aesthetic feature like the Hunter pet in WoW

Anet is either incapable or refuses to design an AI companion that can be utilized in any meaningful tactical manner and the pvp playerbase absolutely refuses to allow their egos to be tarnished by "death by AI"

The fact that our two Elite Specs either ignore the pet or make it literally disappear only demonstrates this even more

Soulbeast only feels as good as it does because the pet is gone and Druid would play even worse had Anet decided to tie heal spam into the pet in any fashion

This will all be once again demonstrated when our third spec either tries to tie functionality into the pet and fails to be good at anything or once again ignores it entirely or retools it into a completely different mechanic

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Truthfully, there is no saving or redesigning the ranger, because all of the great ideas have been reworked or nerfed. 

 

Druid is literally the prime example here, the initial idea was beautiful and made perfect sense with the nature theme, alternative to pet in the form of CA, and overall group utility in heals and immobilizes.  What happened? Nerfed into a pretty much one trick pony (Immob machine).

 

Soulbeast made less sense thematically as it was born because of the pet being a liability, so was more of a 'here you can merge now go away' type deal.  Still it had good options and group potential but what happened? Nerfed into guess what, a one trick pony (Sic' Em ganker).  

 

Core itself had a ton of potential which is why we have 50 some pets, but the game design and other class balance changed so wildly that it is simply unusable now in practically all content. 

 

I also understand the desire to get rid of the pet or make it just a visual thing, but if that happens then I personally will be much less inclined to play anymore.  Reason is, if the pet is reduced to a visual novelty then the class itself is pointless, because then any other class can do everything a ranger can do with its own unique identity intact, so might as well just remove the ranger.  

[Lazze.9870]

On 6/4/2021 at 2:00 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Reason is, if the pet is reduced to a visual novelty then the class itself is pointless, because then any other class can do everything a ranger can do with its own unique identity intact, so might as well just remove the ranger.  

Identity also lie in the theme, representation, animations, skill types etc. of a class. I don't look at engineer and think the toolbelt skills are the be-and-end-all of its identity. 

 

Sadly, Anet tacked on a very obvious identification marker on ranger when they made an AI pet the main mechanic, so it may look like you strip away all of its unique identity by taking it away. Not that I think taking it away is an option worth talking about.

 

Druid should have been designed without a pet. CA should have been the replacement mechanic, not a secondary mechanic. I'd rather have a proper rework of druid with its initial role still intact, than a redesign of ranger as a whole.

Edited June 5, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[voltaicbore.8012]

At this point I'd just be happy to get 'commands' reclassed back into 'shouts' again. I used to have a tanky core ranger build centered around a utility bar with 5 shouts on it, and it dealt steadily with conditions in PvE thanks to Trooper runes. The nice thing about the Trooper cleanse, IMO, was that it wasn't an OP cleanse-everything-with-one-button system, but a singular cleanse was never that far away (bolstered by endless regen between shouts).

[anduriell.6280]

Ranger needs to go back to the drawing board at this point.