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Don't Rangers and Thieves ever feel bad when commanders say "No Thieves. No Rangers, Please."


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That rangers and thieves are fine as they are....just add single ranged AoE weapon with decent base dmg and that's all is needed, I neither need an invite to zerg or I feel bad, generally I don't join zergs regardless even on my guardian, I play solo only and I use builds aimed for that.

Let the zerglings enjoy their boonball , they already cry about rangers and thieves when they get sniped while en route to their zerg, no need for more drama

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Most dagger or rifle thieves and longbow rangers are playing a different game in WVW than the commander is.

If you want to be remotely accepted into a squad, play staff daredevil or immob melee (greatsword or sword+axe) stanceshare soulbeast instead of camping longbow.

Any decent commander will organize their squad based on subgroup provided boons and buffs. If your build doesn't have any then you aren't wanted in the squad, it's that simple.

P.S. a well played daredevil that has a perma-stealth build on swap is a decent plan B for in case a keep or tower push fails , due to shadow portal.

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If I'm on thief I'm not trying to boonball, so I don't really care about getting in the squad.

I do find it annoying how the viability of a ranged build in zerg-on-zerg fights is almost entirely decided by its ability to spam non-projectile AOE attacks, though.

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Marauders or zerk Greatsword, Axe/Axe Soulbeast with a hyena and all of the merged damage multipliers and bonus stats provided by skirmishing & beastmastery (if properly supported) contributes similarly to reaper. Just with less boon corruption and more immobilizes. 7-10k mauls on (5 players in) an enemy group, prelude lash to pull a bunch of people, root them into whirling defense can drop several enemies at once. Doubles as a solid roaming build. Meme minstrels Druids have half their bars filled with skills that immobilize and can provide light healing support as well. Those Druids can really break up an enemy melee ball, especially if they spam their roots in a friendly bubble.

But yeah, rangers and thieves have a bad rep when it comes to large group play. That can't be denied.

~ Kovu

edit- I also hear musings about the potential of Glyph of the Stars being an anti-condi alternative should Purity of Purpose ever get that much needed nerf.

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I actually see alot of respect for LB Rangers these days for their role in destroying enemy siege thats hard to reach.

Soulbeast is fairly well respected in general, compared to "bearbow" back in the day.

Thief,.. well, like I've said in other threads they're not really great at anything. Acceptible, but not great, and they'll always be wasting a slot that any other class could fill better because of their lack of true versatility.

Maybe their next Elite spec will change that, who knows.

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@"PrinceValentine.9320" said:I play ranger myself and I don't feel bad, maybe because I play Firebrand too. But I feel like, anet should do something about these classes so they get to be welcomed to squads too. What do you guys think?

Yes, i feel bad and not just that. That is just another reason why i am actually bitter about Anet and their thoughts regarding thief design. It (the design) is main reason why thief is also not so wanted in other end content of the game be it raids, fractals, pvp. It is like Anet wants to tell us: dear thief players, please uninstall, tnks bye.

How hard is it to add actual support spec to the class? Why does it work for other classes but thief can't have it?

Those who say that such commander behavior doesn't happen - idk, where you play but it happens A LOT on my server (EU, one of the top servers, not allowed to name it nor the commanders that do it). You don't even get chance to do anything, just get insta kicked and get mocked on top of it (i am talking about pretty nasty verbal abuse here). It doesn't matter what build you run or if you actually contribute. It is even worse - if you choose to run thief as scout and inform the squad about what enemy is doing, contest etc. you just get laughed at, by your own "teammates". Of course you can run thief in zergs but even i will admit that thief just doesn't bring much to the group not to mention other classes do it better and bring more (e.g. engis). I just play other classes when i want to play with zerg.

This kind of mentality practiced by wvw community is also the reason why thieves resort to roaming 99% of the time for which, oh the irony, wvw community hates us so much :# How dare i to specialize for 1v1, 1v2 situation and successfully kill enemies building for boonball! /facedesk x1000

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Give thief elite spec Ninja/Samurai and it can field greatsword like a Katana. Ton of AoE skills and one of those anime dashes where they dash while slicing behind them.

Then thief might have a good weapon for blobbing, not just staff spam 5.

Ranger has the same problem, the weapons are terrible.

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Ranger and Thief are more solo/small group classes in WvW so I'd understand if I was to get kicked over a class that can benefit the group more.Hopefully the new specs with EoD will help and give thief especially some more options in playstyles so it's not left out of group play in a lot of end game content.

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I can't remember ever being not invited or being kicked from a squad to be honest.What I DO get is requests to tap keeps, scout out an objective - usually offered squad participation for doing so to not loose that.

Good commanders see individual value in any class.Unfortunately most commanders are average at best.

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People who don't want rangers in squads don't really know how useful rangers can be in squads. A front line of around 5-7 melee soulbeasts in zergs usually gives you the advantage, since dolly stance makes melee pushes easy (aka, spin to win reapers on 10+ pulled and immo people). Once 10-15 melee are in the middle of enemies backline it's game over most of the time.But many will laugh at this, having not played a real melee soulbeast build and play it right.

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@"Tuna Bandit.3786" said:I can't remember ever being not invited or being kicked from a squad to be honest.What I DO get is requests to tap keeps, scout out an objective - usually offered squad participation for doing so to not loose that.

Good commanders see individual value in any class.Unfortunately most commanders are average at best.

9 commanders out of 10 who do add a ranger to the zerg..will usually place you in a "no support" spot at the bottom or the top alongside thieves or some other "fringe" build not considered meta and at that point you may as well play outside the zerg...same thing

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:you need more then damage to be accepted into a comped party, you need team support/ some unique ability too.

This is the second time I'm hearing this reasoning. Aren't SB stances when shared useful anymore? I used to run a boon and stance share SB and it used to work quite well back then. Did something change regarding their functionality?

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It's not hard to build as a thief to hang out in large fights but I'd rather not have my name in squad so I won't count towards dots a commander sees getting lost and make sure I don't mess up their circles and blasts. I'll join squads or groups once in awhile if they're just inviting whoever is there but I need to be at certain distances and angles during drives and whatever to get at our downs or support or to intercept something. I don't feel like there's a lot of issue around OP as much as there might have been, I think most people kind of get it.

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