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The Insane Cost of the Icebrood Saga Weapon Collections (Update - Still Insane)

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  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vindicate.6951 said:
    If the collections would be somewhat rewarding at the very least.
    I cannot understand how a "collect 16 recipes" achievement gives quite a sum of lodestones and prismaticite ores as tier rewards while the ENTIRE azure and crimson collection (which costs altogether 160 prismatium ingots) give 2 draconic amalgamated gemstones TOTAL (1 for each collection).

    At least throw in something nice thats worth going for but this right there is a ton of wasted time/gold to get those collections in specific especially since they are somewhat required for the 2nd meta achievement tier...

    Preeeeeeeeeeetty sure the skins you collect on the way are intended to be part of the reward of the whole thing. If you don't like the skins in the first place then why even bother.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vindicate.6951 said:
    If the collections would be somewhat rewarding at the very least.
    I cannot understand how a "collect 16 recipes" achievement gives quite a sum of lodestones and prismaticite ores as tier rewards while the ENTIRE azure and crimson collection (which costs altogether 160 prismatium ingots) give 2 draconic amalgamated gemstones TOTAL (1 for each collection).

    At least throw in something nice thats worth going for but this right there is a ton of wasted time/gold to get those collections in specific especially since they are somewhat required for the 2nd meta achievement tier...

    The previous weapon collections at least give a legendary gift item of some kind themed off the element. The draconic gemstones are pretty much pittance.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Vindicate.6951 said:
    If the collections would be somewhat rewarding at the very least.
    I cannot understand how a "collect 16 recipes" achievement gives quite a sum of lodestones and prismaticite ores as tier rewards while the ENTIRE azure and crimson collection (which costs altogether 160 prismatium ingots) give 2 draconic amalgamated gemstones TOTAL (1 for each collection).

    At least throw in something nice thats worth going for but this right there is a ton of wasted time/gold to get those collections in specific especially since they are somewhat required for the 2nd meta achievement tier...

    Preeeeeeeeeeetty sure the skins you collect on the way are intended to be part of the reward of the whole thing. If you don't like the skins in the first place then why even bother.

    I am sort of a completionist and from what I see right now, the crimson and azure weapon sets are part of the 2nd meta achievement tier and altough it doesnt give any special reward since the emote is a tier 1 reward, I still want to have it as a completionist.
    The skins are terrible for what they cost, even 7y old weapons look better than these, but thats not why i want them done and it is pretty much outrageous to have such a costly collection tied to a meta achievement.

  • Katary.7096Katary.7096 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I have ignored every single collection since Boreal collection.
    It's just not fun to grind for skins, period.

    I think the only way that Anet can make grind worth while for the game is to simply introduce gear progression.
    Something past Ascended, and Legendaries will be upgraded to the next tier by default.

    Without gear progression, people have no real need to grind anything, and the game's longevity is limited to Achievements and Skins.
    Both Acheivements and skins have been grinded and implemented poorly, and it's starting to upset alot of players.

    And you think that Anet introducing gear progression past ascended into the game is going to upset less players?

  • Llaerdan.5298Llaerdan.5298 Member ✭✭
    edited March 19, 2021

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Are we, the people who already crafted the weapons, gonna get our primatium ingots back?!

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2021

    @Llaerdan.5298 said:

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Are we, the people who already crafted the weapons, gonna get our primatium ingots back?!

    Nope. It's always hit or miss on being the first ones to do something. Sometimes you come out ahead and other times you don't. Luckily I saw this quick enough that I was able to sell back the difference between what's left without taking too much of a gold loss.

  • @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Can you ask the team to look at the Volcanic Stormcaller Collection as well? It's a 2000g+ collection that has a mastery point tied to it. It's almost 4x more expensive than the previous mastery point with the highest cost, which makes the Volcanic Stormcaller Collection Mastery Point the only one in the entire game tied to such a ridiculously expensive collection

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2021

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    >

    Updates in the March 23 build will reduce the cost of crafting current and upcoming collections:
    Prismatium Ingot requirements for crafting the weapons will be reduced from 10 to 5.
    The Prismatium Ingot recipe will require 5 Prismaticite instead of 10.
    An alternative Prismatium Ingot recipe which uses more Prismaticite and less Orichalcum will be available from the Olmakhan vendor in Eye of the North.
    Daily Dragon Responder will reward 10 Prismaticite instead of 6.

    None of these coming changes encourages anyone to return to the content after the lethal burnout. It only saves players who newly approaches it and ignores those who had the initiative.

    Will ingots be refunded to those who completed them?
    Will prismaticite be refunded to those who used them in ingots?
    An alternative recipe that uses less Prismaticite and more Orichalcum would be preferred. What is suggested only means more grinding in content people are tired of.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ...we don't intend for future meta-achievements of this type to include requirements that are very expensive or that are intended to be long-term goals

    This is at least good news. At least until the next time it happens again. We remember the Requiem armor and Dragonsblood weapon sets. The Dragon Slayer weapons only amplified those problems into a legendary tier disaster.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2021

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    ...we don't intend for future meta-achievements of this type to include requirements that are very expensive or that are intended to be long-term goals

    This is at least good news. At least until the next time it happens again. We remember the Requiem armor and Dragonsblood weapon sets. The Dragon Slayer weapons only amplified those problems into a legendary tier disaster.

    Requiem armor was only an issue because the first set's collections required an item that could only be acquired through a level up reward or RNG. Otherwise players had to rely on the TP which exacerbated the issue when everyone was going for it at the same time. If you look at the prices for the set now, you'll see that it's very reasonable and they didn't make any changes.

    The issue people had with dragonsblood weapons was not the cost but that they required serpentine jewels which were time-gated. The costs are on par of other craftable exotic weapons. The ascended versions of those weapons are on par of other craftable ascended weapons for your first set.

    Neither of those sets required longterm play in order to acquire either.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    An alternative recipe that uses less Prismaticite and more Orichalcum would be preferred. What is suggested only means more grinding in content people are tired of.

    You were complaining about the cost, they reduced the cost, and now you're complaining against part of the cost reductions? Why?

    The orichalcum was NOT even close to the dominating factor of the costs. The Prismaticite itself does damage on a level you can't even properly calculate since it is bound materials that eat up too much time. Choose a better word than "complain".

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    ...we don't intend for future meta-achievements of this type to include requirements that are very expensive or that are intended to be long-term goals

    This is at least good news. At least until the next time it happens again. We remember the Requiem armor and Dragonsblood weapon sets. The Dragon Slayer weapons only amplified those problems into a legendary tier disaster.

    Requiem armor was only an issue because the first set's collections required an item that could only be acquired through a level up reward or RNG. Otherwise players had to rely on the TP which exacerbated the issue when everyone was going for it at the same time. If you look at the prices for the set now, you'll see that it's very reasonable and they didn't make any changes.

    The issue people had with dragonsblood weapons was not the cost but that they required serpentine jewels which were time-gated. The costs are on par of other craftable exotic weapons. The ascended versions of those weapons are on par of other craftable ascended weapons for your first set.

    Neither of those sets required longterm play in order to acquire either.

    You literally described the problems with prismaticite. These are equivalent and exactly the same with issues, save for adding a few zeroes to the end of the dragon slayer weapons.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2021

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    An alternative recipe that uses less Prismaticite and more Orichalcum would be preferred. What is suggested only means more grinding in content people are tired of.

    You were complaining about the cost, they reduced the cost, and now you're complaining against part of the cost reductions? Why?

    The orichalcum was NOT even close to the dominating factor of the costs. The Prismaticite itself does damage on a level you can't even properly calculate since it is bound materials that eat up too much time. Choose a better word than "complain".

    At their peak cost, they contributed about a third of the sell price. They weren't dominating but they were still pretty significant. This still doesn't explain why you were complaining about the costs of the collections and then shifted over to complaining about the cost of one of the reductions that they made. Both reduce the cost of the collections including their cost. It certainly does hurt those who farmed DRMs to make profit as well as those who farmed orichalcum nodes.

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    ...we don't intend for future meta-achievements of this type to include requirements that are very expensive or that are intended to be long-term goals

    This is at least good news. At least until the next time it happens again. We remember the Requiem armor and Dragonsblood weapon sets. The Dragon Slayer weapons only amplified those problems into a legendary tier disaster.

    Requiem armor was only an issue because the first set's collections required an item that could only be acquired through a level up reward or RNG. Otherwise players had to rely on the TP which exacerbated the issue when everyone was going for it at the same time. If you look at the prices for the set now, you'll see that it's very reasonable and they didn't make any changes.

    The issue people had with dragonsblood weapons was not the cost but that they required serpentine jewels which were time-gated. The costs are on par of other craftable exotic weapons. The ascended versions of those weapons are on par of other craftable ascended weapons for your first set.

    Neither of those sets required longterm play in order to acquire either.

    You literally described the problems with prismaticite. These are equivalent and exactly the same with issues, save for adding a few zeroes to the end of the dragon slayer weapons.

    Actually, I didn't. They're not the "equivalent and exactly the same with issues". This thread you created was about the cost. Look at your OP:

    2 Boreal sets. 1 Tengu. 2 Stormcaller sets. 5 Dragon Slayer sets including Fiery and Icy ascended weapons.

    The total so far to craft all of these cost about 10,500 Gold coins to complete!

    The Fiery and Icy weapons alone add 6,650 G by themselves. Compare that to the sets from Season 4, Stellar weapons at 864 G and the Heroic Dragonsblood weapons 576 G. Why do devs think this was okay?

    It's clear that you're complaining about the gold costs.

    The cost of each heroic dragon slayer weapon is on par of other ascended weapons. Expecting them to be cheaper because the set is tied to a collection is quite ridiculous. As to the stellar weapons mentioned in your OP, those were not tied to a any collection. The astral weapons were tied to a legendary trinket collection but you only needed like six of the skins unlocked.

    EDIT:

    What you're comparing the IBS Champions collections to is nowhere on the same level as the LS4 collections. For the legy, the issue was that the first set required those nullification sigils which you could get as either a level 60 level up reward, through RNG, or through the TP. That's nowhere near the same as Prismaticite. The issue with Prismaticite was that you could only get 14 per day from the first three (with two each subsequent run with both boons) which would require you to farm the DRMs for daily for over a year if you did just three each day. The way they were set up was as if they were to be a long term reward.

    The issue with heroic dragonsblood weapons were the serpentine jewels that you could only get like 7 on average from the tombs every day (3 guaranteed) and the bosses had a low drop rate. You needed three of them per inscription/insignia. It would have required a little over two weeks of just opening the final chest each day to get enough for all of the weapons. That's obviously much different than required over a year.

    I get it that you were upset/annoyed about the costs and/or requirements for those weapons. Many others were including myself. But the problems people were complaining about were nothing like the problems people had for the LS4 collections.

    EDIT 2:

    I also suggest that you take a look at the cost of crafting other weapon collections in the game. The auric weapon collection costs roughly 8G a piece to craft with a total cost of around 128G. That's on par with how much it would cost to craft other exotic weapons.

  • Bovan.9481Bovan.9481 Member ✭✭

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Someone else asked the same thing, but I feel it could use a little more attention. I recently bought and crafted all the weapons aside from the currently still locked ones. While I respect that the gold I spend will now be lost, I do hope we at least get some of our ingots refunded. As pointed out it's a hefty cost to get these things, and it feels a little unfair for them to be changed without any notice just a few days beforehand.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2021

    @Bovan.9481 said:
    [...] I do hope we at least get some of our ingots refunded. As pointed out it's a hefty cost to get these things, and it feels a little unfair for them to be changed without any notice just a few days beforehand.

    Yes. We could have crafted both collections, the Azure one and the Crimson one, with the Ingots we had. A refund would indeed be appreciated.

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I still don't care about those weapons, so I'll focus instead on the other good news: stretch emote more accessible at some point. Not next build if I read that correctly. Stil, something to look forward to.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2021

    It's a dangerous precedent for them to refund any non-accountbound currencies. Just keep that in mind. At best people will get crystals back , and it is highly likely the valuation on those will tank similar to Eitrite Ingot once the next tier of the Mastery is unlocked.
    At around 6 gold per Prismatium Ingot right now if you obtain the Prismaticite Crystal yourself, t1 dragon slayer weapons (with commander's stats) cost ~21 gold each regardless. T2 "azure" / "crimson" is around 38 gold if you obtain the Prismaticite Crystal by yourself. For that price the bare minimum for an ascended T3 dragon slayer weapon exceeds the cost of two normal ascended weapons.

    These are going to turn out similar to the Stellar weapons in cost (~50 gold for stellar) just for T2. Astral weapons remain high at ~20 gold each to make with a relatively unused stat combination. Fiery Dragon Slayer weapons will still cost 5 Prismatium Ingot (so ~6 gold each at current rates if you obtain the crystals yourself) , Amalgamated Draconic Lodestone (~13 gold), and 10 Destroyer Lodestones (~7 gold) which is going to run another 50 gold or so. It would have been better off if there was a CC step for the upgrade to the T3 tier instead of just another material sink , people are still poor at CC.

    The Heroic Dragonsblood set was different as they were ascended weapons and had a stat combo that is not easily obtained before that release (Diviner's). The T1 unlock costs roughly 5 gold to make currently. Illuminated Boreal costs roughly 30 gold to make including the Restored Boreal weapon and is ascended.

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Can you ask the team to look at the Volcanic Stormcaller Collection as well? It's a 2000g+ collection that has a mastery point tied to it. It's almost 4x more expensive than the previous mastery point with the highest cost, which makes the Volcanic Stormcaller Collection Mastery Point the only one in the entire game tied to such a ridiculously expensive collection

    I'd rather the mastery point be moved to t1 Dragon Slayer weapons collection.

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    The t2 weapon only required 5 ignots, those are not getting reduced, what is getting reduced is the datamined t3 recipes which required 10. The only thing people lost are the account bound prismatite crystal because the recipe is being lowered, not the orichalcum or mithril or the ecto. Those other items are remaining unchanged. Those probably do not need to be refunded.

    Exactly.

    I don't understand the need for refunds on those since nobody even has t3 weapons yet.

  • Bovan.9481Bovan.9481 Member ✭✭
    edited March 20, 2021

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    I don't understand the need for refunds on those since nobody even has t3 weapons yet.

    I just wanted to drop a quick reply to this message. I fully accept the gold I've lost by buying ingots, same goes for the non-account bound materials. But because there was little to no communication regarding these currencies I eventually decided to give in and craft the 3 current sets of weapons because I was under the impression there wouldn't be any changes. I simply spend the gold so I could at least manage the 3rd set of collections in the months I've been farming them and the following months I assumed I would still have to work on them.

    I'm happy getting some of the raw crystals back just so I'm prepared and able to make the next set, along with anything else that might get thrown at us that will require these in the future. I really don't see there being any harm in partially refunding a few crystals for the people who in this case, are unfortunate enough not to have gotten the full picture in time.

    I'm not going to throw a fit or anything, the changes are fantastic. But it does sting a little after this long of a period of time.

  • So does the new update mean that those of us who have already dumped thousands of gold down the proverbial economy sink are just going to be SOL?

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Awesome! Thank you for this change 😊

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Delita Silverburg.8632 said:
    So does the new update mean that those of us who have already dumped thousands of gold down the proverbial economy sink are just going to be SOL?

    Or take it as they are listening to us and won't do this with future meta achievements. The "car" loses value when you drive it off the lot after all 😬

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm pretty sure they will link of obtaining a new legendary to one or more of this collections :)

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bovan.9481 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    I don't understand the need for refunds on those since nobody even has t3 weapons yet.

    I just wanted to drop a quick reply to this message. I fully accept the gold I've lost buy buying ingots, same goes for the non-account bound materials. But because there was little to no communication regarding these currencies I eventually decided to give in and craft the 3 current sets of weapons because I was under the impression there wouldn't be any changes. I simply spend the gold so I could at least manage the 3rd set of collections in the months I've been farming them and the following months I assumed I would still have to work on them.

    I'm happy getting some of the raw crystals back just so I'm prepared and able to make the next set, along with anything else that might get thrown at us that will require these in the future. I really don't see there being any harm in partially refunding a few crystals for the people who in this case, are unfortunate enough not to have gotten the full picture in time.

    I'm not going to throw a fit or anything, the changes are fantastic. But it does sting a little after this long of a period of time.

    But you will not get the crystals back, it would have to be person you bought the ignots from. They cannot give you account bound materials someone else farmed. This is kinda why they cannot refund the crystals, who get refunded, the person who used them to make the ingot that was sold at a profit because of their timegated scarcity or the person who currently owns them and used them to make weapons. No one getting refunded seem the most fair, this prevents those who sold at a huge profit to not double dip, and prevents people from getting accountbound materials they did not farm.

  • Bovan.9481Bovan.9481 Member ✭✭
    edited March 20, 2021

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:

    But you will not get the crystals back, it would have to be person you bought the ignots from. They cannot give you account bound materials someone else farmed. This is kinda why they cannot refund the crystals, who get refunded, the person who used them to make the ingot that was sold at a profit because of their timegated scarcity or the person who currently owns them and used them to make weapons. No one getting refunded seem the most fair, this prevents those who sold at a huge profit to not double dip, and prevents people from getting accountbound materials they did not farm.

    Alright you know what? This is an answer I can accept and live with. It's not something I had considered and it does make sense.

    I still don't feel entirely happy at the state these things were in for so long without any communication, but it is what it is.

  • @Infusion.7149 said:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Can you ask the team to look at the Volcanic Stormcaller Collection as well? It's a 2000g+ collection that has a mastery point tied to it. It's almost 4x more expensive than the previous mastery point with the highest cost, which makes the Volcanic Stormcaller Collection Mastery Point the only one in the entire game tied to such a ridiculously expensive collection

    I'd rather the mastery point be moved to t1 Dragon Slayer weapons collection.

    I agree a move of the mastery point would be ideal. Or have it only be owning a few of them like the Tengu and Stormcaller

  • Turtle Dragon.9241Turtle Dragon.9241 Member ✭✭
    edited March 20, 2021

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    41k AP player here.
    I crafted 120 Ingots before this announcement.
    At the new cost, that means I lost 120x5 = 600 Crystals. That's 300 DRMs runs(2 per run) that you are invalidating for me.
    Is it fine to throw under the bus your actual faithful-to-Arenanet-players, who actually bothered playing the content that nobody else wants to play?

    The Prismatium Ingot recipe will require 5 Prismaticite instead of 10.

    CANCEL THIS!

    Daily Dragon Responder will reward 20(not 10) Prismaticite instead of 6.

    INCREASE THIS INSTEAD!
    Increasing the daily reward will encourage players to play more in the future.
    It is an account bound mat anyway, so it would not matter much if you increased it even more. The estimated value will average out.

    Edit: Another thing you can increase is the 5 Crystals we get from PvP/WvW reward track to 10 instead, or more.

  • kenny.7236kenny.7236 Member ✭✭

    24/31 atm for the new emote achievement;

    May or may not do the dragon slayer weapons collection even after 23/Mar patch.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    You do remember the mystic forge mithril event right? [...]

    That video is priceless! :sweat_smile:

  • Greg.7086Greg.7086 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2021

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Here's an easy solution that I've found and for now it's working pretty well for me: ignore overpriced weapons/skins/collections. This way I was able to enjoy the game and not care about something that doesn't impact my gameplay in any way.

    ^^ Yup that's pretty much me. Really not interested in yet another Saga weapon collection ( getting seriously boring and monotonous, yes Anet I understand it's cheap content to keep giving us weapon collection after weapon collection but I really don't care for such to complete yet another weapons collection to unlock skins I'm not ever going to use for a massive 2-5AP or whatever they even give, just a futile time/gold sink, and like we even need more weapon skins cos we don't have enough already!?!

    I could do with a *Block Content button. I guess we can look forward to the next Saga episode with oh wait lets give the players something unique and different: How about another weapons collection with a 2 AP reward at the end, and we'll make it cost 5,000 Gold to unlock: That will keep them entertained while they're waiting for 3rd Xpac.

    @Linken.6345 That video is epic !
    @Eloc Freidon.5692 your thread is right on point: I've never been sucked into making any of the Icebrood Saga wep collections as saw them for what they were ( just cheap, easy to implement, poor quality, content for Anet to keep continuing to roll out in a vain attempt to keep players amused?!), never even made those nasty Boreal ones. But what's really sickening is the staggering cost which is simply unobtainable for the vast % of the playerbase. As Sobx said, best option: Just ignore overpriced collections.

    Comparison: Unlock all Icebrood Saga Weapon Collections VS Buy/Craft 5 x Legendary Weapons ? The choice is yours!

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DAN.7314 said:
    I have already crafted one of the t2 sets, which costs 80 ingots. The t1 set I had to craft before costs 48 ingots. That's 128 ingots total I've used, and with the new recipes saving 5 crystals an ingot I used an extra 640 crystals. Would be nice to get something back. I love the lower cost going forward, but for those that have already completed some of the collections it's pretty inconsiderate.

    Once I crafter the thunderhead peaks and they lowered the cost so I sent ticket and she sent me the serpintine i already used. Idk if they will do it for a sellable item but worth a shot

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2021

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    None of these coming changes encourages anyone to return to the content after the lethal burnout. It only saves players who newly approaches it and ignores those who had the initiative.

    No change done after the fact can help people that already burned out due to it. Still, it is good that the problem has been recognized, and, moreover, according to devs it won't be repeated in the future (that one is a biggest point here actually).

    Will ingots be refunded to those who completed them?
    Will prismaticite be refunded to those who used them in ingots?

    Almost certainly not.

    An alternative recipe that uses less Prismaticite and more Orichalcum would be preferred. What is suggested only means more grinding in content people are tired of.

    You already got a recipe that uses less prismaticite (and without it using more orichalcum) - it will be the base one ("The Prismatium Ingot recipe will require 5 Prismaticite instead of 10.", remember?). The second recipe will be for those that will be willing to spend their time to reduce the cost even further.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2021

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    41k AP player here.
    I crafted 120 Ingots before this announcement.
    At the new cost, that means I lost 120x5 = 600 Crystals. That's 300 DRMs runs(2 per run) that you are invalidating for me.
    Is it fine to throw under the bus your actual faithful-to-Arenanet-players, who actually bothered playing the content that nobody else wants to play?

    The Prismatium Ingot recipe will require 5 Prismaticite instead of 10.

    CANCEL THIS!

    Daily Dragon Responder will reward 20(not 10) Prismaticite instead of 6.

    INCREASE THIS INSTEAD!
    Increasing the daily reward will encourage players to play more in the future.
    It is an account bound mat anyway, so it would not matter much if you increased it even more. The estimated value will average out.

    Edit: Another thing you can increase is the 5 Crystals we get from PvP/WvW reward track to 10 instead, or more.

    That could work but I think that the new tier of Mastery might increase crystal drops already so whatever internal decision making involved decided to do something even more drastic.
    Unless the crystals are outright flooded at a rate of over two times what they are now, similar to the Eitrite Ingot acquisition rates , that wouldn't solve the current problem of the extreme amount of crystals required. Increasing the rate steadily as the chapter continues would have been preferable to changing the recipes , as you stated.

    Considering how long the PVP/WVW reward tracks take to do, nobody will seriously do a reward track which may take hours just to get 10 crystals. They'd have to reward ingots outright. You'd be better off running a profitable reward track or profiteering off the ~400 gold market value of a Gift of Battle. Unlike memories of otter (which are still vastly slower via reward tracks) which for the most part are not tradable (unless you salvage Volcanic or Charged Stormcaller weapons) there is no reason to do this track for prismaticite crystals currently.

    edit: * the valuation as of this post for the reward track per https://fast.farming-community.eu/wvw/reward-track is below Dragonfall and Istan

    • With 5 via bags of Icebrood Saga material right now that is a valuation of 20 silver per https://fast.farming-community.eu/conversions/prismaticite-crystal
    • Doubling it would not elevate the reward track to attractive levels.
    • The average DRM takes around 10-12 minutes in an optimized farming squad not autoattacking per the site. That's around 10-12 crystals an hour not including daily bonus. If the next tier of mastery increases the drop by 1 crystal, then that's even more crystals per hour: likely 15-18.
  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    [...] and, moreover, according to devs it won't be repeated in the future (that one is a biggest point here actually).

    I don't believe it a second.

  • Maryth.9372Maryth.9372 Member ✭✭

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Thank you for the update and for the first part of the attempt to make this right. This is the a big step in the right direction, but you needed to go one step further and BEFORE a second recipe gets out there. You need to roll back progress to zero for anyone who had made any progress on the Crimson or the Azure collections requiring Prismaticite Ingots in order to make this update equitable for everyone. I am 22 weapons into these two collections which means, from the perspective of Prismaticite alone I used 550 more crystals than a player who hadn't started this yet. I'd like to ask that you roll these collections all the way back. Return the mats that players used to craft anything that is completed. If you can't see a way to do that, at least allow customer service to return the fair amount of crystals to players who started early. I submitted a ticket and was denied, twice after trying to present that it's not even everything that I want back, at least provide my Prismaticite back. I love that you recognize a mistake, but please don't penalize those who accepted it for what it was and played the game and reward those who didn't. If it were months that had passed and the maps were dead I wouldn't care so much, but that is not the case. This is literally still in mid grind. Before this gets to a place where return of mats can't happen because of differing recipes, please make this right. Please make this equitable for everyone. Not just those who waited. Thanks

  • Jilora.9524Jilora.9524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 20, 2021

    @Maryth.9372 said:

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Thank you for the update and for the first part of the attempt to make this right. This is the a big step in the right direction, but you needed to go one step further and BEFORE a second recipe gets out there. You need to roll back progress to zero for anyone who had made any progress on the Crimson or the Azure collections requiring Prismaticite Ingots in order to make this update equitable for everyone. I am 22 weapons into these two collections which means, from the perspective of Prismaticite alone I used 550 more crystals than a player who hadn't started this yet. I'd like to ask that you roll these collections all the way back. Return the mats that players used to craft anything that is completed. If you can't see a way to do that, at least allow customer service to return the fair amount of crystals to players who started early. I submitted a ticket and was denied, twice after trying to present that it's not even everything that I want back, at least provide my Prismaticite back. I love that you recognize a mistake, but please don't penalize those who accepted it for what it was and played the game and reward those who didn't. If it were months that had passed and the maps were dead I wouldn't care so much, but that is not the case. This is literally still in mid grind. Before this gets to a place where return of mats can't happen because of differing recipes, please make this right. Please make this equitable for everyone. Not just those who waited. Thanks

    Like try a ticket after the change. They aren't gonna give you items before it would be implemented and possibly cause a drop in ingot price and you could sell all yours today and rebuy. They might not refund at all but they should but tickets before the change have got no shot

    WvW band wagoners ruin the game mode just like Karen's ruin these forums.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I assumed that on each additional new tier mastery we will get additional prismatic drop ... so increased 6 to 10 not make seance.
    On dragon slayr 7 tier assumed 20 from dayli runs

    Edit: Another thing you can increase is the 5 Crystals we get from PvP/WvW reward track to 10 instead, or more.

    that track is dead .. and valid or very very hardcore spvp/wvw players only .. I assumed that we get 20-30 crystals from start..

    But anyway that changes make that many pristamic collection not so toxic/hardcore .. Can make it more chill ? yes, ofc. But what we get on 2 anyway is good changes.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    [...] and, moreover, according to devs it won't be repeated in the future (that one is a biggest point here actually).

    I don't believe it a second.

    Yeah, although this is a very good step IMO I don't really believe that this is the last time that we'll be here.

    That said, there have been many missteps in the IBS but I'm glad to see that ArenaNet are willing to correct some of them, at least. Before they'd have ignored the complaints.

    Who knows maybe the "new" ArenaNet does learn lessons and we won't see this kind of thing happening again. But, if it does happen again, then at least there's a better chance that they'll be willing to fix it.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021

    @Maryth.9372 said:
    Thank you for the update and for the first part of the attempt to make this right. This is the a big step in the right direction, but you needed to go one step further and BEFORE a second recipe gets out there. You need to roll back progress to zero for anyone who had made any progress on the Crimson or the Azure collections requiring Prismaticite Ingots in order to make this update equitable for everyone. I am 22 weapons into these two collections which means, from the perspective of Prismaticite alone I used 550 more crystals than a player who hadn't started this yet. I'd like to ask that you roll these collections all the way back. Return the mats that players used to craft anything that is completed. If you can't see a way to do that, at least allow customer service to return the fair amount of crystals to players who started early. I submitted a ticket and was denied, twice after trying to present that it's not even everything that I want back, at least provide my Prismaticite back. I love that you recognize a mistake, but please don't penalize those who accepted it for what it was and played the game and reward those who didn't. If it were months that had passed and the maps were dead I wouldn't care so much, but that is not the case. This is literally still in mid grind. Before this gets to a place where return of mats can't happen because of differing recipes, please make this right. Please make this equitable for everyone. Not just those who waited. Thanks

    They can't. Why? Because those ingots you used for the collection did not necessarily had all to be crafted by you.

    Let's say that some of the ingots you used were crafted by you, but some were bought (i don't assume that this is what happened in your case, i'm just making an example). So, in such a case, how the refund should happen?
    Should you be refunded prismaticite for all ingots you used, even though you didn't actually "lose" any prismaticite on those you bought, or should you be refunded only on those you crafted personally?
    Should the original crafter that sold their ingot be refunded for those too? Or not? If not, why?
    If you'd not be refunded prismaticite you never had for ingots you bought, not crafted, should you be refunded part of the price of ingots (because without these additional prismaticites those ingots might have been cheaper) or not? If so, how that refund should be calculated?
    If the seller that crafted the ingots and sold them on TP were to be refunded prismaticite for those ingots as well, should they lose part of the gold they gained for sale? If so, how would that be calculated?

    Does Anet even know how much of your ingots you crafted, and how much you bought?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Maryth.9372 said:
    Thank you for the update and for the first part of the attempt to make this right. This is the a big step in the right direction, but you needed to go one step further and BEFORE a second recipe gets out there. You need to roll back progress to zero for anyone who had made any progress on the Crimson or the Azure collections requiring Prismaticite Ingots in order to make this update equitable for everyone. I am 22 weapons into these two collections which means, from the perspective of Prismaticite alone I used 550 more crystals than a player who hadn't started this yet. I'd like to ask that you roll these collections all the way back. Return the mats that players used to craft anything that is completed. If you can't see a way to do that, at least allow customer service to return the fair amount of crystals to players who started early. I submitted a ticket and was denied, twice after trying to present that it's not even everything that I want back, at least provide my Prismaticite back. I love that you recognize a mistake, but please don't penalize those who accepted it for what it was and played the game and reward those who didn't. If it were months that had passed and the maps were dead I wouldn't care so much, but that is not the case. This is literally still in mid grind. Before this gets to a place where return of mats can't happen because of differing recipes, please make this right. Please make this equitable for everyone. Not just those who waited. Thanks

    They can't. Why? Because those ingots you used for the collection did not necessarily had all to be crafted by you.

    Let's say that some of the ingots you used were crafted by you, but some were bought (i don't assume that this is what happened in your case, i'm just making an example). So, in such a case, how the refund should happen?
    Should you be refunded prismaticite for all ingots you used, even though you didn't actually "lose" any prismaticite on those you bought, or should you be refunded only on those you crafted personally?
    Should the original crafter that sold their ingot be refunded for those too? Or not? If not, why?
    If you'd not be refunded prismaticite you never had for ingots you bought, not crafted, should you be refunded part of the price of ingots (because without these additional prismaticites those ingots might have been cheaper) or not? If so, how that refund should be calculated?
    If the seller that crafted the ingots and sold them on TP were to be refunded prismaticite for those ingots as well, should they lose part of the gold they gained for sale? If so, how would that be calculated?

    Does Anet even know how much of your ingots you crafted, and how much you bought?

    They should refund the person who crafted the Ingot, that's all. Even if they sold the Ingot, they technically could have twice the number of Ingots to sell, so they still lost. The TP price is determined by us players, so that's irrelevant. Check how many Ingots someone crafted, refund them 5 Crystals per Ingot crafted.

  • KidRoleplay.3615KidRoleplay.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    Off topic, but I just need to ask a quick question! Are the icy and fiery weapons available? So far, I've only seen them in the wardrobe, and was thinking that maybe the wiki just hasn't been updated yet.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    They should refund the person who crafted the Ingot, that's all. Even if they sold the Ingot, they technically could have twice the number of Ingots to sell, so they still lost.

    But they would have that twice the number to sell only after 23rd. Remember, that the price of ingots decreases with time - it is now lower than it was when they sold theirs. And after 23rd, when the recipes will change, it will go down again. At new recipe they will certainly not be able to sell the ingots at the same price they sold them originally. So, it's not so sure that even if they knew the recipe will change, they would have gained by waiting till that time before crafting.

    The TP price is determined by us players, so that's irrelevant. Check how many Ingots someone crafted, refund them 5 Crystals per Ingot crafted.

    Then we're back to the original question of whether Anet even knows how many ingots someone crafted.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Maryth.9372Maryth.9372 Member ✭✭

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Maryth.9372 said:
    Thank you for the update and for the first part of the attempt to make this right. This is the a big step in the right direction, but you needed to go one step further and BEFORE a second recipe gets out there. You need to roll back progress to zero for anyone who had made any progress on the Crimson or the Azure collections requiring Prismaticite Ingots in order to make this update equitable for everyone. I am 22 weapons into these two collections which means, from the perspective of Prismaticite alone I used 550 more crystals than a player who hadn't started this yet. I'd like to ask that you roll these collections all the way back. Return the mats that players used to craft anything that is completed. If you can't see a way to do that, at least allow customer service to return the fair amount of crystals to players who started early. I submitted a ticket and was denied, twice after trying to present that it's not even everything that I want back, at least provide my Prismaticite back. I love that you recognize a mistake, but please don't penalize those who accepted it for what it was and played the game and reward those who didn't. If it were months that had passed and the maps were dead I wouldn't care so much, but that is not the case. This is literally still in mid grind. Before this gets to a place where return of mats can't happen because of differing recipes, please make this right. Please make this equitable for everyone. Not just those who waited. Thanks

    They can't. Why? Because those ingots you used for the collection did not necessarily had all to be crafted by you.

    Let's say that some of the ingots you used were crafted by you, but some were bought (i don't assume that this is what happened in your case, i'm just making an example). So, in such a case, how the refund should happen?
    Should you be refunded prismaticite for all ingots you used, even though you didn't actually "lose" any prismaticite on those you bought, or should you be refunded only on those you crafted personally?
    Should the original crafter that sold their ingot be refunded for those too? Or not? If not, why?
    If you'd not be refunded prismaticite you never had for ingots you bought, not crafted, should you be refunded part of the price of ingots (because without these additional prismaticites those ingots might have been cheaper) or not? If so, how that refund should be calculated?
    If the seller that crafted the ingots and sold them on TP were to be refunded prismaticite for those ingots as well, should they lose part of the gold they gained for sale? If so, how would that be calculated?

    Does Anet even know how much of your ingots you crafted, and how much you bought?

    They should refund the person who crafted the Ingot, that's all. Even if they sold the Ingot, they technically could have twice the number of Ingots to sell, so they still lost. The TP price is determined by us players, so that's irrelevant. Check how many Ingots someone crafted, refund them 5 Crystals per Ingot crafted.

    They can validate you crafted them. I have had mats returned in the past when I crafted an item of an incorrect weight and yes, I crafted them all.

  • But the price of ingots decreases with time - it is now lower than it was when they sold theirs. And after 23rd, when the recipes will change, it will go down again. At new recipe they will certainly not be able to sell the ingots at the same price they sold them originally. So, it's not so sure that even if they knew the recipe will change, they would have gained by waiting till that time before crafting.

    We are speaking of an Account Bound mat(Prismatium Crystal), that you have to run DRMs to obtain, also known as actually playing the content and trusting Arenanet.
    If we had known and left them in Crystal form instead of converting them to Ingots prior to this announcement, we could craft TWICE the amount of Ingots(with twice the amount of the other Non-Account-Bound mats).

    To clarify: We want the ability to get 2 Ingots out of 10 Crystals if we converted said Crystals into Ingots prior to this announcement/change
    Again, this is an Account Bound mat that takes time to obtain, at 8-10mins per DRM for 2(at the moment). If you spent 40 hours farming DRMs over weeks for those just to find out half of this is just got wasted, you would rather not have played the content at all and have done something else.

    What we do with the Ingots(sell, destroy, craft, gift) is irrelevant. The cost of an Ingot on TP is irrelevant. We are not speaking of gold price that fluctuates based on the whims of TP barons, said Crystals are Account Bound mats with no direct value by themselves other than time invested getting them.

    The fact that ArenaNet betrays their most faithful fans in such a way is disgusting.

    Then we're back to the original question of whether Anet even knows how many ingots someone crafted.

    Yes, they have the ability to check if you crafted something. Crafting mistakes happen all the time and customer support has helped with many of those before.

  • This is all just shifting buyers remorse onto Anet. If the ingots were really too expensive to make/buy, then you wouldn't have done it. Any gold spent on this was of your own volition.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.