Jump to content
  • Sign Up

The Insane Cost of the Icebrood Saga Weapon Collections (Update - Still Insane)


Eloc Freidon.5692

Recommended Posts

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:This is all just shifting buyers remorse onto Anet. If the ingots were really too expensive to make/buy, then you wouldn't have done it. Any gold spent on this was of your own volition.

Arenanet themselves have acknowledged that they made a mistake.If your car has a defect, and the manufacturer admits to it, they recall it and make amends at no cost to you. That is the right thing to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:This is all just shifting buyers remorse onto Anet. If the ingots were really too expensive to make/buy, then you wouldn't have done it. Any gold spent on this was of your own volition.

Arenanet themselves have acknowledged that they made a mistake.If your car has a defect, and the manufacturer admits to it, they recall it and make amends at no cost to you. That is the right thing to do.

The original price of the weapons wasn't a defect. It was intended. Anet just changed their mind later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

But the price of ingots decreases with time - it is now lower than it was when they sold theirs. And after 23rd, when the recipes will change, it will go down again. At new recipe they will certainly
not
be able to sell the ingots at the same price they sold them originally. So, it's not so sure that even if they knew the recipe will change, they would have gained by waiting till that time before crafting.

We are speaking of an Account Bound mat(Prismatium Crystal), that you have to run DRMs to obtain, also known as actually playing the content and trusting Arenanet.If we had known and left them in Crystal form instead of converting them to Ingots prior to this announcement, we could craft TWICE the amount of Ingots(with twice the amount of the other Non-Account-Bound mats).

To clarify: We want
the ability to get 2 Ingots out of 10 Crystals if we converted said Crystals into Ingots prior to this announcement/change
Again, this is an Account Bound mat that takes time to obtain, at 8-10mins per DRM for 2(at the moment). If you spent 40 hours farming DRMs over weeks for those just to find out half of this is just got wasted, you would rather not have played the content at all and have done something else.

What we do with the Ingots(sell, destroy, craft, gift) is irrelevant. The cost of an Ingot on TP is irrelevant. We are not speaking of gold price that fluctuates based on the whims of TP barons, said Crystals are Account Bound mats with no direct value by themselves other than time invested getting them.

The fact that ArenaNet betrays their most faithful fans in such a way is disgusting.

Then we're back to the original question of whether Anet even knows how many ingots someone crafted.

Yes, they have the ability to check if you crafted something. Crafting mistakes happen all the time and customer support has helped with many of those before.

Doesn't the CS Team ask you to prove your claim by destroying the 'mistake'? Which shows them what you crafted/acquired?

I would not be too sure they can tell what you have crafted alone. Maybe they can, and maybe they can not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Turtle Dragon.9241" said:The fact that ArenaNet betrays their most faithful fans in such a way is disgusting.So, you say they should not have changed anything and left those collections in their previous disgusting state? And that this would have been better, and not a "betrayal of their fans"?

Then we're back to the original question of whether Anet even knows how many ingots someone crafted.

Yes, they have the ability to check if you crafted something. Crafting mistakes happen all the time and customer support has helped with many of those before.Those crafting mistakes generallly are all about account-bound crafts, and they "validate" those by checking if you have the item in inventory (and ask you to destroy it, before you get the refund). Also, the refund they give is not the mats used for the item, but the correct version of it. Here they can't do that. Ingots are
not
a bound item, so they don't really know if it was you that crafted them or someone else. And they definitely would not know that about someone that crafted ans
sold
theirs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There was always a problem with fixing contents that are too expensive or too hard to get compared to what is worth or what was intended but misscalculated, since some player will feet cheated by it, but should a game do not fix itself because some player already craft thing thing ? no, it's should fix it.How they can compensate is a case by case thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Yasai.3549 said:I have ignored every single collection since Boreal collection.It's just not fun to grind for skins, period.

If you do not want the skins, then don't grind for them and do other things in the game that you like.

I think the only way that Anet can make grind worth while for the game is to simply introduce gear progression.Something past Ascended, and Legendaries will be upgraded to the next tier by default.

No, this is not a good idea.

A grind that can be ignored is much better than a grind that is required to experience content/maps/etc.

Without gear progression, people have no real need to grind anything

Exactly. This is a good thing in GW2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this point, players are being discouraged from playing any content when it comes out and wait half a year to bother. Which will only generate statistics that no one wants to play the content. Then Anet will think "this is bad content, so we shouldn't make content like this again." But what if it was actually good except for the grind balance?

I don't have faith that Anet can distinct between these issues. This perspective is backed up by history.

I'm at the brink to not play content at launch, encourage others to avoid all new content outside of a single play through, and now stop encouraging people to try Guild Wars 2. If Anet can't fix mistakes like these right, they can't be trusted to not mess the game up in the future.

History is repeating itself for a third time since PoF. Another incident like this without at least an expansion between them won't be tolerated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Astralporing.1957" said:

So, you say they should not have changed anything and left those collections in their previous disgusting state? And that this would have been better, and not a "betrayal of their fans"?

Dont get me wrong, I am happy that they are making the collections easier too.What I am unhappy about is that I am going to lose 600 Crystals because I crafted Ingots before they nerf the recipe. Now this means that I will have to grind this content TWICE.

Perhaps explaining this with an example is better:Say you want to craft your Legendary, and you converted all your T5 Blood into T6 Blood so you have enough of each to craft 1 Gift of Blood.Tomorrow, right before you craft it, they nerf the recipe to now require twice the T5 Blood and half the T6 Blood.Now you cannot get your Legendary anymore, you now have extra T6 Blood whose price has been halved, and you have to go buy more T5 Blood whose price doubled.Would you be happy about this?This is my situation basically. If I had not converted, I would be done with the T3 Dragonslayer weapons too, just like you would be done with your Gift of Blood.Perhaps this will help people understand why changing existing recipes is an awful idea.

There are other things they can change other than nerfing the Ingot recipe from 10 to 5.They plan to increase daily from 6 Crystals to 10. Why not make that 20? I also said that they could change the PvP/WvW reward track that awards a measly 5 Crystals at the end of the track. They could change that to a good 50 and make the tracks much more attractive.Buff things, dont nerf things. A buff to FUTURE Crystals to be earned, not a nerf to existing Crystals already earned.

Betraying their fans comes from the grind in the first place:Imagine if this wasnt a mistake and was actually premeditated, as in "they planned for us to grind then planned to nerf the grind later just to make us pass time"Basically, from now on people will stop trusting what Arenanet releases and start saying "let's just not play this content until Arenanet nerfs it".What they have done also sets a very dangerous precedence for GW2. This is not WoW. We should not have to grind like this.I might as well not have played and waited for it to be nerfed. Why play something if you know Arenanet will just nerf it in the future?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turtle Dragon.9241 : You should have started out with that point instead of pushing for a "refund" of Prismaticite Crystal which is a logistic nightmare for Arenanet to handle. The amount of backtracking needed to find out who actually obtained the crystals originally would complicate things as Shadowmoon mentioned above. Ultimately any Prismaticite Crystals returned would likely go back to whoever has account-bound them (see Restored Boreal weapons which were one-off replacements), which means only people that account-bound the t1/t2 weapons.

They could have just flooded the reward rate of increased mastery levels. There still would be buyer's remorse though but anyone that has played the game long enough would know that the mastery levels would likely increase crystal drops similar to eitrite ingots. Changing the unobtainable T3 recipes (aka data-mined so people shouldn't preemptively complain about those anyway) and upping the rewarded crystals might not have been enough in their eyes , that's the only case I would see for adjusting the prismatium ingot recipe retroactively on top of that.

I think at this point the best hope for people that did the entire t2 collection is to get the difference in Prismaticite Crystal after the change (I don't understand the logic of people contacting support right now). I don't think that someone that did a few weapons is going to achieve the same leniency by support.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Infusion.7149 said:@Turtle Dragon.9241 : You should have started out with that point instead of pushing for a "refund" of Prismaticite Crystal which is a logistic nightmare for Arenanet to handle. The amount of backtracking needed to find out who actually obtained the crystals originally would complicate things as Shadowmoon mentioned above.

I did in a previous comment.

They should not change the existing recipe, at all.This can all be avoided, by not changing the recipe for Ingots from 5 to 10 on Tuesday.

We end up in a situation where people who have actually done the collections and converted Crystals to Ingots have to grind all over again(ONCE more), while people who have just kept Crystals and done daily only(not bothered with the collection) are DONE.This whole discrepancy comes from the fact that they are nerfing the recipe.

This is the wrong way of doing things.Arenanet is

  1. Rewarding players who snoozed the collection by making it easier on them.
  2. Punishing players who actually did the collection by making them grind for it(TWICE) all over again.

Take a real life example, reward the children who hand in their homework late. Tell those that actually handed their homework early that it didnt count, and to go do it all over again. Does this seem normal to anyone here?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

@Infusion.7149 said:@Turtle Dragon.9241 : You should have started out with that point instead of pushing for a "refund" of Prismaticite Crystal which is a logistic nightmare for Arenanet to handle. The amount of backtracking needed to find out who actually obtained the crystals originally would complicate things as Shadowmoon mentioned above.

I did in a previous comment.

They should not change the existing recipe, at all.This can all be avoided, by not changing the recipe for Ingots from 5 to 10 on Tuesday.

We end up in a situation where people who have actually done the collections and converted Crystals to Ingots have to grind all over again(ONCE more), while people who have just kept Crystals and done daily only(not bothered with the collection) are DONE.This whole discrepancy comes from the fact that they are nerfing the recipe.

This is the wrong way of doing things.Arenanet is
  1. Rewarding players who snoozed the collection by making it easier on them.
  2. Punishing players who actually did the collection by making them grind for it(TWICE) all over again.

Take a real life example, reward the children who hand in their homework late. Tell those that actually handed their homework early that it didnt count, and to go do it all over again. Does this seem normal to anyone here?

My point is : I'm not sure how many people are in your situation where they made Prismatium Ingots (in a large number, not something low such as 5 ingots) and did not sell or use them. I suspect most people would use or sell them after making them if they didn't leave them in crystal form.

edit: to use your own analogy , it's if an assignment is given and you finished it before the teacher or professor's deadline , didn't upload or submit it before hand, but then the minimum length or requirements for the assignment is lowered.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Infusion.7149 said:

My point is : I'm not sure how many people are in your situation where they made Prismatium Ingots (in a large number, not something low such as 5 ingots) and did not sell or use them. I suspect most people would use or sell them after making them if they didn't leave them in crystal form.

Every single person who has done the collections has made the Ingots.Each and every one of them will have to grind this all over again for the next collection.I was on my way to do the collections too, I am at 120 Ingots, need 160.

I am hoping everyone gets a refund, those who did the collections and those who also crafted the Ingots.I am even more hoping that Arenanet does the right thing and does not change the recipe from 10 to 5, while increasing the FUTURE rewards instead such as daily from 6 to 20 or PvP/WvW reward tracks from 5 to 50.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Infusion.7149 said:

edit: to use your own analogy , it's if an assignment is given and you finished it before the teacher or professor's deadline , didn't upload or submit it before hand, but then the minimum length or requirements for the assignment is lowered.

No, because I could still hand over the same done assignment. Not do it all over again.Like I said, the people who held on to their Crystals instead of converting them into Ingots for the Collections are the winners here.Those who converted their Crystals now have to grind TWICE, for the 3rd Collection.

Do you want to reward people who do not do content? Is that the way to go Arenanet? I dont mind, let me know, I will do it too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

My point is : I'm not sure how many people are in your situation where they made Prismatium Ingots (in a large number, not something low such as 5 ingots) and did not sell or use them. I suspect most people would use or sell them after making them if they didn't leave them in crystal form.

Every single person who has done the collections has made the Ingots.Each and every one of them will have to grind this all over again for the next collection.I was on my way to do the collections too, I am at 120 Ingots, need 160.

I am hoping everyone gets a refund, those who did the collections and those who also crafted the Ingots.I am even more hoping that Arenanet does the right thing and does not change the recipe from 10 to 5, while increasing the FUTURE rewards instead such as daily from 6 to
20
or PvP/WvW reward tracks from 5 to
50
.

As mentioned by multiple other people, since Prismatium Ingots aren't accountbound someone that finished the collection didn't necessarily make the ingots themselves. Someone could have skipped DRM grinding entirely and flipped the TP, done whatever PVE farm is popular nowadays (not sure what it is because I'm not a huge fan of openworld) and bought the ingots.

Realistically speaking, other than your special case I expect that if there's a refund of any sort it will be for people that bound the T1/T2 skins to their account since it removed it from the economy (key point).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@"Turtle Dragon.9241" said:Perhaps explaining this with an example is better:Say you want to craft your Legendary, and you converted all your T5 Blood into T6 Blood so you have enough of each to craft 1 Gift of Blood.Tomorrow, right before you craft it, they nerf the recipe to now require twice the T5 Blood and half the T6 Blood.Now you cannot get your Legendary anymore, you now have extra T6 Blood whose price has been halved, and you have to go buy more T5 Blood whose price doubled.Would you be happy about this?Would i be happy? Probably not. Would i demand compensation? Also i wouldn't. Especially if i thought earlier that there was something wrong with Gift of Blood before, and the change would address it.

I definitely was not demanding any compensation when Anet introduced precursor crafting, for example, even though before that happened i overpaid for Dusk when i was crafting Twilight. I didn't demand compensation when Anet changed ascended recipes and introduced "patches" right before i was about to craft a set. Even if i didn't actually like that last change.

Thing is, in games like this stuff changes with time. Don't expect everything to stay the same.

This is my situation basically. If I had not converted, I would be done with the T3 Dragonslayer weapons too, just like you would be done with your Gift of Blood.Perhaps this will help people understand why changing existing recipes is an awful idea.Not first time this happened. And most likely not the last time either. When you converted ingots for t3 set, that isn't even in the game yet, knowing full well that people were complaining about those recipes and asking Anet to Do Something, you were basically gambling. First, gambling on the datamined recipe to stay unchanged (which is by no means a guarantee), Second, gambling on Anet not listening to the community and not addressing the problem. Well, you lost that gamble, but that's not Anet's fault.

There are other things they can change other than nerfing the Ingot recipe from 10 to 5.They plan to increase daily from 6 Crystals to 10. Why not make that 20?First option helps both those that already farmed some ingots (but did not convert yet), and those that will still be farming them. Second option helps only the latter, but without doing anything for the former. No matter which one they'd choose, someone would complain.

I also said that they could change the PvP/WvW reward track that awards a measly 5 Crystals at the end of the track. They could change that to a good 50 and make the tracks much more attractive.Yes, they could. And they probably should. That's a separate issue however.Buff things, dont nerf things. A buff to FUTURE Crystals to be earned, not a nerf to existing Crystals already earned.It's a buff to existing crystals already earned. It's just you unwisely decided to spend yours in advance for a content that is not yet implemented.

Betraying their fans comes from the grind in the first place:Imagine if this wasnt a mistake and was actually premeditated, as in "they planned for us to grind then planned to nerf the grind later just to make us pass time"Then they would have gone with your choice, not with the solution they actually implemented. They would not have buffed the past grind like they did.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I probably spent around 6K on the ingots and I’m perfectly okay with taking a loss here.

If Anet has made ingots cost more crystals instead, would those who had previously crafted them be fine with forking over more crystals for the ingots which they had already crafted? Probably not. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not first time this happened. And most likely not the last time either. When you converted ingots for t3 set, that isn't even in the game yet, knowing full well that people were complaining about those recipes and asking Anet to Do Something, you were basically gambling. First, gambling on the datamined recipe to stay unchanged (which is by no means a guarantee), Second, gambling on Anet not listening to the community and not addressing the problem. Well, you lost that gamble, but that's not Anet's fault.

No no, I converted Ingots for the T2 set. I would be halfway done with the T3 set AS WELL if I had not converted Ingots for the T2 set. I am losing BECAUSE I WORKED ON THE COLLECTION instead of just ignoring it. I currently have 120 Ingots(need 160 for the T2 set). I would have 240 Ingots right now if I did not convert them for the T2 collection, that means I would be 80 Ingots(halfway through the T3 collection) if I did not do the content(collection) and ignored it.

Those who already finished the T2 collection are in worse shape, as they would also be fully done with the T3 collection as well. 160 Ingots to 320 Ingots. 160 for T2, 160 for T3.

Doing content is NOT gambling.

Is content(Collections) released meant to be ignored until nerfed? Or is it meant to be done?

What I really want them to do for me, is uncovert the 120 UNUSED Prismatium Ingots I have crafted prior to this announcement back to 1200 Prismatium Crystals, 6000 Orichalcum Ingots, 6000 Mithril Ingots, 1200 Ectos. I am willing to destroy the current 120 Prismatium Ingots I hold. Customer support should be helping with that just like "every other crafting mistake people have made in the past". Instead, like Maryth.9372 said previously, they are declining to help with this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Out of curiosity Turtle Dragon, have you contacted Support yet? Maybe they can help you? Though in all honesty, I say wait and see. Maybe they will refund, maybe they won't, nobody knows until Tuesday. In the meanwhile your time is better spent elsewhere versus going back and forth here, since I sort of doubt much will change at the moment.

Also your analogy with the blood, I'd sell the T6 mats since they're more expensive and buy the lower priced T5 mats.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Doodleplex.3752 said:Out of curiosity Turtle Dragon, have you contacted Support yet? Maybe they can help you? Though in all honesty, I say wait and see. Maybe they will refund, maybe they won't, nobody knows until Tuesday. In the meanwhile your time is better spent elsewhere versus going back and forth here, since I sort of doubt much will change at the moment.

Also your analogy with the blood, I'd sell the T6 mats since they're more expensive and buy the lower priced T5 mats.

The difference is Prismatium Crystals are Account Bound, so I cannot just do that, I will have to re-grind the Prismatium Crystals instead.Consider 8 mins per DRM for just 2 Crystals(being 600 down), you understand why I do not wish to go through this daunting task again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Eloc Freidon.5692 said:2 Boreal sets. 1 Tengu. 2 Stormcaller sets. 5 Dragon Slayer sets including Fiery and Icy ascended weapons.

The total so far to craft all of these cost about 10,500 Gold coins to complete!

The Fiery and Icy weapons alone add 6,650 G by themselves. Compare that to the sets from Season 4, Stellar weapons at 864 G and the Heroic Dragonsblood weapons 576 G. Why do devs think this was okay?

My opinion is just don't do them. I know that is a bitter pill for completionists. I WANT to do them but the fact that they EXTREMELY impractical is just pretty obvious. If they were at least attractive enough for the skins I might think a little more about it. IMO the Tengu weapons are just UGLY and the Boreal's weren't much better. The only ones I do like are the Commander's. I will make those for the skins and just forget about the rest, at least for the time being. Maybe next year.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't care about people who don't want compensation for their loss. They are entitled to that. I care about people who want compensation. Those people are also entitled to that.

Imagine if Anet decides to cut the costs of all Legendary crafting requirements in half. Many people won't be happy. Yes these examples are comparable, so don't @ me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...