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Why did they nerf ranger stances?

Gudradain.3892

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:The answer to your question is that ANet reduced damage, sustain and boon duration for
some
professions in competitive mode in the patch that nerfed those stances. It was merely in line with what they did.

NB.: While ranger's support isn't optimal in organized squad, it's not in any way "lacking" (it's just not what's perceived as needed support in WvW atm). It's not difficult for a ranger (druid) to keep up prot, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 allies, all while healing and farting might stacks right and left. Soulbeast and it's stances is slightly less effective on boons and heal but benefit from different advantages (like group evade, groupe stunbreak, group stability... etc.).

Fixed it for you :
, this is not all professions, all I see is the obvious elementalist which doesn't get couple of patches without received nerfs , ranger which just get dumbed down whenever they become optimal for competitive gameplay at the top

Revenants, guardians and holosmiths
have not been touched at all in WvW for the last 1.5 year
, holosmith is still the 2019 version for at least 80% of it, condi heralds basically unnerfed and so on

Does your "claims" invalidate in any way the fact that the stance nerfs came along a global reduction of damage, sustain and boon duration in competitive modes for all professions?

Yes! because they nerfed the sustain of some profession while others can still facetank damage when the skill cap is reached...or you missed the part with triple rev teams winning tournaments?..I don't know how that sit with your claim of global sustain/dmg nerf, if that would be true..you would not see such degree of stacking

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Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:The answer to your question is that ANet reduced damage, sustain and boon duration for
some
professions in competitive mode in the patch that nerfed those stances. It was merely in line with what they did.

NB.: While ranger's support isn't optimal in organized squad, it's not in any way "lacking" (it's just not what's perceived as needed support in WvW atm). It's not difficult for a ranger (druid) to keep up prot, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 allies, all while healing and farting might stacks right and left. Soulbeast and it's stances is slightly less effective on boons and heal but benefit from different advantages (like group evade, groupe stunbreak, group stability... etc.).

Fixed it for you :
, this is not all professions, all I see is the obvious elementalist which doesn't get couple of patches without received nerfs , ranger which just get dumbed down whenever they become optimal for competitive gameplay at the top

Revenants, guardians and holosmiths
have not been touched at all in WvW for the last 1.5 year
, holosmith is still the 2019 version for at least 80% of it, condi heralds basically unnerfed and so on

Does your "claims" invalidate in any way the fact that the stance nerfs came along a global reduction of damage, sustain and boon duration in competitive modes for all professions?

Yes! because they nerfed the sustain of some profession while others can still facetank damage when the skill cap is reached...or you missed the part with triple rev teams winning tournaments?..I don't know how that sit with your claim of global sustain/dmg nerf, if that would be true..you would not see such degree of stacking

You should read again the patch note then because the patch note clearly and objectively prove you wrong.

Edit: In any way, the balance result not putting all profession into a perfectly flawless balanced state between each other doesn't invalidate the change that were made. The flaw in your point is that you base yourself on subjective arguments while I'm just stating that yes, indeed, all profession got a hit on sustain, damage and boons duration in the patch that hosted these changes to stances.

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:The answer to your question is that ANet reduced damage, sustain and boon duration for
some
professions in competitive mode in the patch that nerfed those stances. It was merely in line with what they did.

NB.: While ranger's support isn't optimal in organized squad, it's not in any way "lacking" (it's just not what's perceived as needed support in WvW atm). It's not difficult for a ranger (druid) to keep up prot, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 allies, all while healing and farting might stacks right and left. Soulbeast and it's stances is slightly less effective on boons and heal but benefit from different advantages (like group evade, groupe stunbreak, group stability... etc.).

Fixed it for you :
, this is not all professions, all I see is the obvious elementalist which doesn't get couple of patches without received nerfs , ranger which just get dumbed down whenever they become optimal for competitive gameplay at the top

Revenants, guardians and holosmiths
have not been touched at all in WvW for the last 1.5 year
, holosmith is still the 2019 version for at least 80% of it, condi heralds basically unnerfed and so on

Does your "claims" invalidate in any way the fact that the stance nerfs came along a global reduction of damage, sustain and boon duration in competitive modes for all professions?

Yes! because they nerfed the sustain of some profession while others can still facetank damage when the skill cap is reached...or you missed the part with triple rev teams winning tournaments?..I don't know how that sit with your claim of global sustain/dmg nerf, if that would be true..you would not see such degree of stacking

You should read again the patch note then because the patch note clearly and objectively prove you wrong.

I read them multiple times and all I see is actual nerfs to some professions and "literal slap on the wrist" for others....when is about elementalist, KABLAM! a 50% CD increase out of the hat from the start, complete removal or 50% decrease in coefficient......then you pick a class like revenant : "might reduced from 3s to 1s" ...such massive nerf..what about jalis nerfs?shortbow ?...nothing of it touched and teams still running triple rev like nobody business.

You can read the patches too, just explain how exactly I am the one biased here!

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Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:

You should read again the patch note then because the patch note clearly and objectively prove you wrong.

I read them multiple times and all I see is actual nerfs to some professions and "literal slap on the wrist" for others....when is about elementalist, KABLAM! a 50% CD increase out of the hat from the start, complete removal or 50% decrease in coefficient......then you pick a class like revenant : "might reduced from 3s to 1s" ...such massive nerf..what about jalis nerfs?shortbow ?...nothing of it touched and teams still running triple rev like nobody business.

You can read the patches too, just explain how exactly I am the one biased here!

You might have missed it:Short BowShattershot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.65 to 0.44. Increased bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.Bloodbane Path: Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.Scorchrazor: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01. Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 1 second.

The worse, is that the only reason you're complaining about renegade's shortbow is because it got a mechanical change on one of it's skills in july 2020 that made him a reliable source of damage. Something that it wasn't before july 2020.

Anyway, some of the weapons skills of the rev have their CD increased by 150% (since you like the big number), some energy cost are increased, most might source are reduced to 6 second duration down from 8/10s... etc. There is also a whole rework of 2 of the revenant's core traitline in this patch, retribution's sustain is reduced by at least 1/3rd, Salvation sustain take an even harder hit, invocation and herald's sustain also take significant hits... etc. Jalis didn't take a nerf? Is there even anything worth nerfing on Jalis? Want the road to deal less damage?

You are biased because you only look at thing subjectively not objectively. Nothing more nothing else. The elementalist wasn't hit more or harder than other professions, neither was the ranger. Neither the ranger nor the elementalist were some kind of martyrs sacrified on the altar of the gods of tyria for the sake of the other professions' growth in strength in this patch. Every profession got the equal rough treatment, their share of kicks in the arse.

Edit: Let's not go over the nerfs made for the sake of WvW in July and december 2020 on revenant. All those things seemingly invisible to your eyes yet very real.

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Zyreva.1078

Zyreva.1078

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Gudradain.3892" said:Did I miss a time where Ranger was the meta group support and they had to nerf it? As far as I can remember, Ranger have never been welcomed in organized squad because of their lack of group support so I can't understand that nerf.

The answer to your question is that ANet reduced damage, sustain and boon duration for
some
professions in competitive mode in the patch that nerfed those stances. It was merely in line with what they did.

NB.: While ranger's support isn't optimal in organized squad, it's not in any way "lacking" (it's just not what's perceived as needed support in WvW atm). It's not difficult for a ranger (druid) to keep up prot, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 allies, all while healing and farting might stacks right and left. Soulbeast and it's stances is slightly less effective on boons and heal but benefit from different advantages (like group evade, groupe stunbreak, group stability... etc.).

Fixed it for you :
, this is not all professions, all I see is the obvious elementalist which doesn't get couple of patches without received nerfs , ranger which just get dumbed down whenever they become optimal for competitive gameplay at the top

Revenants, guardians and holosmiths
have not been touched at all in WvW for the last 1.5 year
, holosmith is still the 2019 version for at least 80% of it, condi heralds basically unnerfed and so on

That's simply not true. All classes got nerfed with that patch. No exceptions. And neither ranger nor ele are in a nearly as bad state as pretty much all your posts might suggest. "No bias", sure ...

The meta videos, websites say otherwise...AT final matches say otherwise...WvW commanding say otherwise, everything points toward my truth which is still backed up by hard facts...meanwhile forum goers say : "nah you're biased" ....

Please tell me more about how rangers and eles are fine atm compared to the rest....by fine I mean competitive at the high level..no pve zerging[...]

First you talk about WvW, now PvP. Maybe make clear what you are actually talking about, because there are pretty significant differences between game modes (and even within game modes, especially in WvW)

Anyway, you just linked videos showcasing weaver winning monthly tournaments (by a player who is not known to be a weaver main, so you can't argue he is only playing the class because he likes it so much). Ofc weaver isn't (and shouldn't be - nothing should) on the same lvl as rev right now, but neither are the other classes. So what was your point again?

Ranger is indeed lacking when it comes to competitive PvP, and never has been great for WvW zerging (which i believe is intentional design), but it is absolutely fine for WvW roaming. Weaver is also a solid roamer, tempest is meta for "tryhard" small scale grps and both specs also have decent zerg builds.

There are also other classes that have fallen out of PvP meta, yet i don't see you crying about those. Why could that be?

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:The answer to your question is that ANet reduced damage, sustain and boon duration for
some
professions in competitive mode in the patch that nerfed those stances. It was merely in line with what they did.

NB.: While ranger's support isn't optimal in organized squad, it's not in any way "lacking" (it's just not what's perceived as needed support in WvW atm). It's not difficult for a ranger (druid) to keep up prot, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 allies, all while healing and farting might stacks right and left. Soulbeast and it's stances is slightly less effective on boons and heal but benefit from different advantages (like group evade, groupe stunbreak, group stability... etc.).

Fixed it for you :
, this is not all professions, all I see is the obvious elementalist which doesn't get couple of patches without received nerfs , ranger which just get dumbed down whenever they become optimal for competitive gameplay at the top

Revenants, guardians and holosmiths
have not been touched at all in WvW for the last 1.5 year
, holosmith is still the 2019 version for at least 80% of it, condi heralds basically unnerfed and so on

Does your "claims" invalidate in any way the fact that the stance nerfs came along a global reduction of damage, sustain and boon duration in competitive modes for all professions?

Yes! because they nerfed the sustain of some profession while others can still facetank damage when the skill cap is reached...or you missed the part with triple rev teams winning tournaments?..I don't know how that sit with your claim of global sustain/dmg nerf, if that would be true..you would not see such degree of stacking

You should read again the patch note then because the patch note clearly and objectively prove you wrong.

I read them multiple times and all I see is actual nerfs to some professions and "literal slap on the wrist" for others....when is about elementalist, KABLAM! a 50% CD increase out of the hat from the start, complete removal or 50% decrease in coefficient......then you pick a class like revenant : "might reduced from 3s to 1s" ...such massive nerf..what about jalis nerfs?shortbow ?...nothing of it touched and teams still running triple rev like nobody business.

You can read the patches too, just explain how exactly I am the one biased here!

Reducing duration from 3 to 1 is a 66% nerf and 66 >50. Just saying ...

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

You should read again the patch note then because the patch note clearly and objectively prove you wrong.

I read them multiple times and all I see is actual nerfs to some professions and "literal slap on the wrist" for others....when is about elementalist, KABLAM! a 50% CD increase out of the hat from the start, complete removal or 50% decrease in coefficient......then you pick a class like revenant : "might reduced from 3s to 1s" ...such massive nerf..what about jalis nerfs?shortbow ?...nothing of it touched and teams still running triple rev like nobody business.

You can read the patches too, just explain how exactly I am the one biased here!

You might have missed it:Short BowShattershot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.65 to 0.44. Increased bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.Bloodbane Path: Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.Scorchrazor: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01. Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 1 second.

Anyway, some of the weapons skills of the rev have their CD increased by 150% (since you like the big number), some energy cost are increased, most might source are reduced to 6 second duration down from 8/10s... etc. There is also a whole rework of 2 of the revenant's core traitline in this patch, retribution's sustain is reduced by at least 1/3rd, Salvation sustain take an even harder hit, invocation and herald's sustain also take significant hits... etc. Jalis didn't take a nerf? Is there even anything worth nerfing on Jalis? Want the road to deal less damage?

You are biased because you only look at thing subjectively not objectively. Nothing more nothing else. The elementalist wasn't hit more or harder than other professions, neither was the ranger. Neither the ranger nor the elementalist were some kind of martyrs sacrified on the altar of the gods of tyria for the sake of the other professions' growth in strength in this patch. Every profession got the equal rough treatment, their share of kicks in the kitten.

You're the one not being objective here despite all the video evidence provided, nerfing down a hydrogen bomb down to tactical nuke ...mean jack at the end of the day, we still have a weapon of mass destruction at our hands. Slaps on the wrist are slaps on the wrist and will never be considered actual nerfs , two of the videos here are after the so called nerfing patch for rev and they are teams winning with triple rev still for a total cound of 4-5 revs in a tournament final.

You can keep calling me biased all you want, the evidence still points in my direction for being right and you're being...objectively wrong! The difference between an actual nerf and a slap on the wrist is that things stop being used at the top as it's always in ele case where the "meta" changes every so patches...so spare me the "you're main bias" discussion

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@"Gudradain.3892" said:Did I miss a time where Ranger was the meta group support and they had to nerf it? As far as I can remember, Ranger have never been welcomed in organized squad because of their lack of group support so I can't understand that nerf.

The answer to your question is that ANet reduced damage, sustain and boon duration for
some
professions in competitive mode in the patch that nerfed those stances. It was merely in line with what they did.

NB.: While ranger's support isn't optimal in organized squad, it's not in any way "lacking" (it's just not what's perceived as needed support in WvW atm). It's not difficult for a ranger (druid) to keep up prot, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 allies, all while healing and farting might stacks right and left. Soulbeast and it's stances is slightly less effective on boons and heal but benefit from different advantages (like group evade, groupe stunbreak, group stability... etc.).

Fixed it for you :
, this is not all professions, all I see is the obvious elementalist which doesn't get couple of patches without received nerfs , ranger which just get dumbed down whenever they become optimal for competitive gameplay at the top

Revenants, guardians and holosmiths
have not been touched at all in WvW for the last 1.5 year
, holosmith is still the 2019 version for at least 80% of it, condi heralds basically unnerfed and so on

That's simply not true. All classes got nerfed with that patch. No exceptions. And neither ranger nor ele are in a nearly as bad state as pretty much all your posts might suggest. "No bias", sure ...

The meta videos, websites say otherwise...AT final matches say otherwise...WvW commanding say otherwise, everything points toward my truth which is still backed up by hard facts...meanwhile forum goers say : "nah you're biased" ....

Please tell me more about how rangers and eles are fine atm compared to the rest....by fine I mean competitive at the high level..no pve zerging[...]

First you talk about WvW, now PvP. Maybe make clear what you are actually talking about, because there are pretty significant differences between game modes (and even within game modes, especially in WvW)

Anyway, you just linked videos showcasing weaver winning monthly tournaments (by a player who is not known to be a weaver main, so you can't argue he is only playing the class because he likes it so much). Ofc weaver isn't (and shouldn't be - nothing should) on the same lvl as rev right now, but neither are the other classes. So what was your point again?

Ranger is indeed lacking when it comes to competitive PvP, and never has been great for WvW zerging (which i believe is intentional design), but it is absolutely fine for WvW roaming. Weaver is also a solid roamer, tempest is meta for "tryhard" small scale grps and both specs also have decent zerg builds.

There are also other classes that have fallen out of PvP meta, yet i don't see you crying about those. Why could that be?

@Dadnir.5038 said:The answer to your question is that ANet reduced damage, sustain and boon duration for
some
professions in competitive mode in the patch that nerfed those stances. It was merely in line with what they did.

NB.: While ranger's support isn't optimal in organized squad, it's not in any way "lacking" (it's just not what's perceived as needed support in WvW atm). It's not difficult for a ranger (druid) to keep up prot, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 allies, all while healing and farting might stacks right and left. Soulbeast and it's stances is slightly less effective on boons and heal but benefit from different advantages (like group evade, groupe stunbreak, group stability... etc.).

Fixed it for you :
, this is not all professions, all I see is the obvious elementalist which doesn't get couple of patches without received nerfs , ranger which just get dumbed down whenever they become optimal for competitive gameplay at the top

Revenants, guardians and holosmiths
have not been touched at all in WvW for the last 1.5 year
, holosmith is still the 2019 version for at least 80% of it, condi heralds basically unnerfed and so on

Does your "claims" invalidate in any way the fact that the stance nerfs came along a global reduction of damage, sustain and boon duration in competitive modes for all professions?

Yes! because they nerfed the sustain of some profession while others can still facetank damage when the skill cap is reached...or you missed the part with triple rev teams winning tournaments?..I don't know how that sit with your claim of global sustain/dmg nerf, if that would be true..you would not see such degree of stacking

You should read again the patch note then because the patch note clearly and objectively prove you wrong.

I read them multiple times and all I see is actual nerfs to some professions and "literal slap on the wrist" for others....when is about elementalist, KABLAM! a 50% CD increase out of the hat from the start, complete removal or 50% decrease in coefficient......then you pick a class like revenant : "might reduced from 3s to 1s" ...such massive nerf..what about jalis nerfs?shortbow ?...nothing of it touched and teams still running triple rev like nobody business.

You can read the patches too, just explain how exactly I am the one biased here!

Reducing duration from 3 to 1 is a 66% nerf and 66 >50. Just saying ...

Yeah reducing might in GW2 2021 is considered a nerf....are you actually serious? The rest of the team is just "farting" might and you think a little uptime nerf can change anything?...The current meta doesn't think so but people on the forum think otherwise...good for you guys I guess

I am including both PvP and WvW because in the grand scheme of things the "devs" only "slapped a little" professions like revenant and holosmith in PvP only when they can still go around with 2019 raid boss status in WvW where by contrast both ele and ranger have seen nerfs being extended from PvP

For better or for worst I am facing top 100 players in both game modes...and it's not funny or entertaining and they're all playing some version of revenant and holosayan .

Gods...barons...they're all running the same broken crap permaboon 25 might berseker burst Raid boss mode but people on the forum try to tell me that reducing might on a renegade from 3s to 1s constitute a nerf....ok I think I'll rest my case now..honestly

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Zyreva.1078

Zyreva.1078

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You are the one who keeps throwing arround meaningless numbers like "ele always gets nerfed by 50%", while completely ignoring that the last patch where ele recieved "50% nerfs", actually brought the class back into competitive meta. I just wanted to point out how dumb such statements are.Is rev op in PvP, even after multiple nerfs? Absolutely, and nobody here is denying it. But that is an issue with rev in particular and you can't compare a class to rev and then conclude that class is bad, when it is in fact on par or even better than most other classes.

I also don't get your claims about holo. In PvP it seems to be decent, but far from dominating (kinda like weaver). In WvW nade dmg is still op and flashbang is generally pretty obnoxious, but overall they don't feel that broken. Certainly haven't run into unkillable ones.

(Fun fact: watching teapot tournament right now and the only class i haven't seen being played is warrior, while every other class has been represented multiple times already. Yet i haven't seen you mention warrior with a single word. But that couldn't possibly be bias, nooo ...)

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Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:You might have missed it:Short BowShattershot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.65 to 0.44. Increased bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.Bloodbane Path: Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.Scorchrazor: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01. Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 1 second.

Anyway, some of the weapons skills of the rev have their CD increased by 150% (since you like the big number), some energy cost are increased, most might source are reduced to 6 second duration down from 8/10s... etc. There is also a whole rework of 2 of the revenant's core traitline in this patch, retribution's sustain is reduced by at least 1/3rd, Salvation sustain take an even harder hit, invocation and herald's sustain also take significant hits... etc. Jalis didn't take a nerf? Is there even anything worth nerfing on Jalis? Want the road to deal less damage?

You are biased because you only look at thing subjectively not objectively. Nothing more nothing else. The elementalist wasn't hit more or harder than other professions, neither was the ranger. Neither the ranger nor the elementalist were some kind of martyrs sacrified on the altar of the gods of tyria for the sake of the other professions' growth in strength in this patch. Every profession got the equal rough treatment, their share of kicks in the kitten.

You're the one not being objective here despite all the video evidence provided, nerfing down a hydrogen bomb down to tactical nuke ...mean jack at the end of the day, we still have a weapon of mass destruction at our hands.
Slaps on the wrist are slaps on the wrist and will never be considered actual nerfs
, two of the videos here are after the so called nerfing patch for rev and they are teams winning with triple rev still for a total cound of 4-5 revs in a tournament final.

You can keep calling me biased all you want, the evidence still points in my direction for being right and you're being...objectively wrong! The difference between an actual nerf and a slap on the wrist is that things stop being used at the top as it's always in ele case where the "meta" changes every so patches...so spare me the "you're main bias" discussion

Videos and actual gameplay are subjective evidence. Patch notes are objective evidences because they actually list the change made.

My point (since I can't help stressing it over and over) is that SB stance's nerf was in line with a patch that was meant to nerf boon duration, sustain and damage in competitive modes.

Your point is that you think your favourite professions were hit harder than other, qualifying other profession's nerfs as "slaps on the wrist" in comparison.

Nothing in your points invalidate mine. Neither your videos nor your different "empyric evidences". Because ultimately empyric evidence are just showing you a subjective image of the game resulting from a small part of the community's playtime (which is impacted by their skilllevel, mastery of their profession/game mechanisms, health, mood... etc.), far from the objective, written, fact that patch notes are.

I say that you're not objective, because you lean on subjective evidences.

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Abyssisis.3971

Abyssisis.3971

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To be fair, ranger stances were never really that good at group support anyway since they were never shared to allies for full duration, had they been, then I could understand nerfing them. Perhaps it would be fair for all classes to have their shareable boons nerfed to 50% duration on allies as well and requires them to slot a specific trait in order to share them?

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Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

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@Dadnir.5038 said:It's not difficult for a ranger (druid) to keep up prot, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 allies, all while healing and farting might stacks right and left.

True. In stationary PvE content. Not exactly the topic of the thread, is it?

As for OP's actual question, Soulbeast stances were never great for group support because of the ally duration, even though Dolyak and Bear are solid skills to share. Most nerfs were done because of roaming builds, boonbeast in particular.

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Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

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@Lazze.9870 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:It's not difficult for a ranger (druid) to keep up prot, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 allies, all while healing and farting might stacks right and left.

True. In stationary PvE content. Not exactly the topic of the thread, is it?

As for OP's actual question, Soulbeast stances were never great for group support because of the ally duration, even though Dolyak and Bear are solid skills to share. Most nerfs were done because of roaming builds, boonbeast in particular.

Do your squad never stop to regroup (allowing you to make 10 player benefit from glyph of the star)? Do you need to be stationary to use call of the wild or simply switching pet (swiftness, fury, might and unblockable)? Do you need to be standing still for your allies to pass through sublime conversion and gain regen? Can't you be on the move to grant boons via commands's trait?

I do agree that pets and spirits aren't reliable sources of boons in WvW, but everything else work just as fine there as it does in PvE (better, you have choices). Beside, apart from rare ZvZ encounters, WvW is mostly karma train and thus "stationary PvE" (Zerg vs door/wall, Zerg caping, Zerg vs champion... etc.).

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Lazze.9870

Lazze.9870

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:It's not difficult for a ranger (druid) to keep up prot, regen, vigor, fury and swiftness on 10 allies, all while healing and farting might stacks right and left.

True. In stationary PvE content. Not exactly the topic of the thread, is it?

As for OP's actual question, Soulbeast stances were never great for group support because of the ally duration, even though Dolyak and Bear are solid skills to share. Most nerfs were done because of roaming builds, boonbeast in particular.

Do your squad never stop to regroup (allowing you to make 10 player benefit from
glyph of the star
)? Do you need to be stationary to use
call of the wild
or simply switching pet (swiftness, fury, might and unblockable)? Do you need to be standing still for your allies to pass through
sublime conversion
and gain regen? Can't you be on the move to grant boons via
commands
's trait?

I do agree that pets and spirits aren't reliable sources of boons in WvW, but everything else work just as fine there as it does in PvE (better, you have choices). Beside, apart from rare ZvZ encounters, WvW is mostly karma train and thus "stationary PvE" (Zerg vs door/wall, Zerg caping, Zerg vs champion... etc.).

You listed all those boons and said 10 allies and that is what I'm addressing. That should be obvious. 10 man is only true for Glyph of the Star. If you have any decent expierence playing druid in actual fights at all, you should know that the non-avatar version is way more valueable for cleanses and condition immunity, you don't want to waste your time in avatar mode on channeling the flipside version of it. At most you will use it as you're leaving the mode not to waste astral force. Regardless of that, those boons are already plenty covered by firebrands and scrappers.

And no, you don't use it while regrouping to stack those boons, and you don't tell your squad to stop moving so they can get the Glyph of the Star boons mid-fight either, for that matter. That's about the dumbest thing you can do. The only exception is if your commander tells the group to bunker up tight. That's about the only time the avatar version could be worth using. And yes, that includes the revive portion of it. Better off using Illusion of Life from a mesmer or the guardian signet.

Your statement is true for PvE, in WvW it is kinda irrelevant. Not because those boons are not needed and that ranger/druid doesn't have ways to provide them, but because other professions do it better WITH additional boons or other benefits. So lacking when compared to the meta choices is INDEED correct. Because all of those boons are obviously wanted. Even if you randomly gave Druid access to those other boons, the end result is still that its way of pumping out those boons are too clunky compared to the alternatives.

I play druid/soulbeast in most of my wvw guild's raids. The only boons you reliably give in high level fights are swiftness, regen, some fury and might if you're running Grace of the Land. All of those are covered by the meta classes. Which is why you don't use druid for its boons. Everything other than mightstacking during fights (as opposed to pre-stacking might with Empower) is lackluster compared to the rest. But that comes at the cost of a giant outgoing healing modifier or more immobs. If you bring a druid, it is for CCs (primarily immobs) and secondary support via healing and cleansing. You never rely on its boons. Shared Dolyak Stance from a Soulbeast is more valueable in WvW than any single skill druid has because its effect is unique to ranger and stacks with other damage reduction skills (plus, additional stab is always great).

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:You might have missed it:Short BowShattershot: Reduced power coefficient from 0.65 to 0.44. Increased bleeding duration from 3 seconds to 4 seconds.Bloodbane Path: Increased cooldown from 3 seconds to 5 seconds.Scorchrazor: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01. Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 1 second.

Anyway, some of the weapons skills of the rev have their CD increased by 150% (since you like the big number), some energy cost are increased, most might source are reduced to 6 second duration down from 8/10s... etc. There is also a whole rework of 2 of the revenant's core traitline in this patch, retribution's sustain is reduced by at least 1/3rd, Salvation sustain take an even harder hit, invocation and herald's sustain also take significant hits... etc. Jalis didn't take a nerf? Is there even anything worth nerfing on Jalis? Want the road to deal less damage?

You are biased because you only look at thing subjectively not objectively. Nothing more nothing else. The elementalist wasn't hit more or harder than other professions, neither was the ranger. Neither the ranger nor the elementalist were some kind of martyrs sacrified on the altar of the gods of tyria for the sake of the other professions' growth in strength in this patch. Every profession got the equal rough treatment, their share of kicks in the kitten.

You're the one not being objective here despite all the video evidence provided, nerfing down a hydrogen bomb down to tactical nuke ...mean jack at the end of the day, we still have a weapon of mass destruction at our hands.
Slaps on the wrist are slaps on the wrist and will never be considered actual nerfs
, two of the videos here are after the so called nerfing patch for rev and they are teams winning with triple rev still for a total cound of 4-5 revs in a tournament final.

You can keep calling me biased all you want, the evidence still points in my direction for being right and you're being...objectively wrong! The difference between an actual nerf and a slap on the wrist is that things stop being used at the top as it's always in ele case where the "meta" changes every so patches...so spare me the "you're main bias" discussion

Videos and actual gameplay are subjective evidence. Patch notes are objective evidences because they actually list the change made.

My point (since I can't help stressing it over and over) is that SB stance's nerf was in line with a patch that was meant to nerf boon duration, sustain and damage in competitive modes.

Your point is that you think your favourite professions were hit harder than other, qualifying other profession's nerfs as "slaps on the wrist" in comparison.

Nothing in your points invalidate mine. Neither your videos nor your different "empyric evidences". Because ultimately empyric evidence are just showing you a subjective image of the game resulting from a small part of the community's playtime (which is impacted by their skilllevel, mastery of their profession/game mechanisms, health, mood... etc.), far from the objective, written, fact that patch notes are.

I say that you're not objective, because you lean on subjective evidences.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectrum_Shield

VS

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

I don't see "boonbeast" anywhere in PvP, although try to remember where are these "nerfs" to holosmith ...I really fail to see the impact of these "nerfs", the build is basically still here...while stance soulbeast is gonehttps://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Holosmith_-_Explosive_Sword

Subjective Image?....I only see reality where people instead interpret it in whichever way they like......1+1=2...no matter if other say 1+1=0

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Kodama.6453

Kodama.6453

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectrum_Shield

VS

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dolyak_Stance

I don't see "boonbeast" anywhere in PvP, although try to remember where are these "nerfs" to holosmith ...I really fail to see the impact of these "nerfs", the build is basically still here...while stance soulbeast is gonehttps://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Holosmith_-_Explosive_Sword

Wait, is your argument here that holosmith is allowed to have PvP builds at all?

Because the actual skill you linked here, spectrum shield, isn't even used in the explosive sword build you linked. Who even uses spectrum shield in PvP?Yeah, stance soulbeast might be gone in PvP, but soulbeast in general is not. So I don't see your point here, stances are just used as much as holosmith's exceed skills, which is basically not at all.

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Arheundel.6451

Arheundel.6451

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

VS

I don't see "boonbeast" anywhere in PvP, although try to remember where are these "nerfs" to holosmith ...I really fail to see the impact of these "nerfs", the build is basically still here...while stance soulbeast is gone

Wait, is your argument here that holosmith is allowed to have PvP builds at all?

Because the actual skill you linked here, spectrum shield, isn't even used in the explosive sword build you linked. Who even uses spectrum shield in PvP?Yeah, stance soulbeast might be gone in PvP, but soulbeast in general is not. So I don't see your point here, stances are just used as much as holosmith's exceed skills, which is basically not at all.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/957829635I see plenty of soulbeasts here....The issue is not the presence of soulbeast or not...it's the skill level of the opponents, a soulbeast is good against...as far as we can see the skill level of the opponent must not be "very high" for the soulbeast to do great

The skill level of those asking for nerfs on the forum...remains in question.....did you notice the spectrum shield holosmith during the finals?......I can imagine that soulbeast works at gold/silver rank

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